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Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by Slow_Hand on Sunday November 26, 2023 @07:21PM (#38426643)
Glancing at the article, this seems like a baroque approach to a problem with a much more elegant solution.

I’m a professional musician and audio engineer and for years I’ve been using custom earplugs that I acquired through a visit to an audiologist. They took an impression of my ear canals and within a week provided molded custom-fit plugs. These plugs provide passive attenuation spec’ed to my preference (-15dB, -20dB, -30dB, etc) and they do so in a way that attenuates evenly across the frequency spectrum, rather than over-attenuate the high frequencies like foam earplugs do, so that you don’t experience muffled sound. They’re comfy and work flawlessly. I’ve never taken them out due to discomfort.

Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by pkkm on Sunday November 26, 2023 @07:55PM (#38426857)
For people who can't afford custom earplugs, you can find a lot of earplugs with good sound clarity if you google "musician earplugs" or "concert earplugs". You may have to try more than one brand before you find something that fits well, but it will still be cheaper than the custom option. I like the EarPeace plugs, though it's not because of sound quality but because they're discreet and I find them comfortable.
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by giantg2 on Sunday November 26, 2023 @08:00PM (#38426883)
I've seen the custom ones (non-electronic) go for $25. So it might not be as expensive as some people think. It depends on where you go to get them. Independent people who do it on the side are the cheapest.
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by andrei_says_ on Sunday November 26, 2023 @08:41PM (#38427137)
Could you suggest some sources?
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by wodenokoto on Sunday November 26, 2023 @11:46PM (#38428168)
You have to look locally. You have to go there physically, so there is no Amazon-type recommendation to give
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by giantg2 on Monday November 27, 2023 @07:48AM (#38431685)
If you go to something like a local IDPA match and ask someone people wearing them, you might get some recommendations.
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by nerdponx on Sunday November 26, 2023 @08:08PM (#38426946)
[delayed]
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by kazinator on Monday November 27, 2023 @12:31AM (#38428485)
I've never had a problem with sound clarity at loud concerts with ordinary foam plugs. I wouldn't use anything else when cranking an amp.

Flat frequency response in plugs is nonsense, because due to factors like the Fletcher-Munson curves, there is no correct profile.

Foam plugs attenuating more of the high end means that you hear a lot of bass: and in one way that is subjectively pleasing, because due to Fletcher-Munson, the unattenuated loud sound sounds bass-heavy. Thus some of that aspect of the sound is preserved.

People who are cork sniffers about flat frequency responses should be going to Bach concerts, not rock concerts.

I heard Chick Corea's Electric Band (with Gambale on guitar at that time) via foam plugs. They sounded fine. I heard every note clearly from every instrument.

Most people don't give a shit about flat response. Just about every time I've ever rented a car, I had to correct the stereo from cranked treble and bass, reduced middle, back to all zero.

No two speaker systems sound alike in the first place.

Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by thfuran on Monday November 27, 2023 @02:01AM (#38429091)
>Just about every time I've ever rented a car, I had to correct the stereo from cranked treble and bass, reduced middle, back to all zero.

So you do care about it after all?

Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by kazinator on Monday November 27, 2023 @02:10AM (#38429122)
Oh, for recorded music, absolutely.

For live music, there is no reference for correctness. The raw thing is so loud, it hurts. Nobody is engineering it for listening at moderate volume in an ideal listening space!

Now speaking of recorded music, even though there is a "correct" approach to reproducing it so that you hear more or less what the recording guys (I don't want to use the term "engineer" because often they are not) intended.

However, what those guys intended is often arbitrary. They took captures from some sources and tweaked them. The whole hi fi paradigm is predicated on the idea that the recording/mastering guys are high priests who get to exercise their taste, and the lowly consumer must obligingly reproduce what they put out.

This isn't so at a concert. If it sounds to me like some guitar dickhead's amp stack is putting out too much crap above 6 kHz (because he's standing out of its way, hearing it from the side or whatever), and my foam plugs make it smooth like it should, that makes me the "engineer" of my own experience of the event.

Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by Slow_Hand on Monday November 27, 2023 @11:58PM (#38442488)
> What those guys intended is often arbitrary. They took captures from some sources and tweaked them. The whole hi fi paradigm is predicated on the idea that the recording/mastering guys are high priests who get to exercise their taste, and the lowly consumer must obligingly reproduce what they put out.

Don't be dismissive of audio engineers and mixers making records. I don't think you realize how much care and consideration goes into crafting an album. These choices are far from arbitrary for those who are working at the top of their craft.

Additionally, don't make the mistake of conflating people who are "hi-fi" enthusiasts with the people actually making the records. They are not always aligned in their goals.

You also seem to have the mistaken idea that mastering engineers are trying to impose their taste onto a record. You know which mastering engineers try to shoehorn their taste into a record? The ones who don't get hired a second time.

I am a mastering engineer. By the time that a record reaches our studio the creative decisions have already been made by the artist, the producer, and the mixer. Our goal at this stage is to function as midwife to the artist and present their music in the best possible light, which sometimes means doing as little as possible, so as not the get in the way of what's been delivered to us. Our role is to hear the record as objectively as possible and then give it a final level of polish/balance so that the artist's intentions shine through and translate on as many different playback situations as possible.

Finally, if a guitarist's amp is putting out too much 6kHz at a rock show, then it is the live sound engineer's responsibility to fix it, either through EQ or through communicating with the guitarist to adjust their amp settings.

Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by shlant on Monday November 27, 2023 @09:44AM (#38432766)
> I've never had a problem with sound clarity at loud concerts with ordinary foam plugs. I wouldn't use anything else when cranking an amp.

Regardless of "flat response" talk, I have been very happy using the same pair of $30 Dubs ear plugs for almost 15 years. I have foam earplugs for when I need things to be as quiet as possible but I hate them so much for a few reasons:

1. With extended use, for whatever reason, cause my ear canals to feel raw and itchy.

2. They are a PITA to get in and have them stay in and sometimes to get them out

3. They are disposable which is a waste

Coincidentally, I literally just bought a pair of Loops ear plugs today as my Dubs are finally falling apart. I liked my Dubs for multiple reasons:

1. They are super comfortable - I forget I have them in

2. They are reusable

3. They look interesting in the ear which is a great conversation starter at concerts/clubs/festivals - "are you wearing earbuds?" "No they are musicians earplugs. They basically just lower the volume while preserving the sound" "Oh cool!" "Yea if you like music, don't forget to protect your ears!"

Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by kazinator on Monday November 27, 2023 @01:05PM (#38435750)
The decibel rating of Dubs is poor, though; they claim only -12 dB.

That's not really enough if you're going down from 110 or more.

Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by shlant on Monday November 27, 2023 @10:25PM (#38441935)
I haven't ever had signs of hearing damage (many of the clubs I go to keep it to 100db or less) but even more reason to move to Loops!
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by Slow_Hand on Monday November 27, 2023 @11:15PM (#38442264)
Flat response in plugs is not nonsense simply because Fletcher-Munson curves already exist. Good plugs eliminate an additional layer of unwanted frequency distortion in the audio that you're hearing.

Yes, Fletcher-Munson effects can change our perception of frequency response. But that doesn't mean that we should tolerate additional negative effects. That's like saying that we shouldn't stop the cook from using too much salt in our dish because the chicken is already dry. Clearly it's preferable to have chicken that is ONLY dry, rather than chicken that is both dry AND over-salted.

Don't be so dismissive about people seeking a good audio experience. If you're at a concert there's a lot of factors that are out of the audience's control, but good earplugs are low hanging fruit if such things are important to them.

And if you're the musician on stage cranking an amp, using cheap ear plugs is going to create a disconnect between what you hear and what your audience will hear. If you have to dial in more top-end to compensate for the dulling effect of the plugs for your amp to sound "right", then your "right" sounding amp setting will be perceived as harsh for the people in the audience who aren't wearing plugs.

Finally, if you're at a rock concert (with a sound engineer mixing the band) the engineer will be hearing the concert at the same volume as you. They will already be balancing the band's sound in a way that compensates for the effects of the Fletcher Munson effect that you're concerned about.

Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by stavros on Sunday November 26, 2023 @07:30PM (#38426707)
I got some off-the-shelf ones, so they don't fit as well as custom molded ones, but I've still never had discomfort. I love them, I wear them everywhere, as they make sound levels much more comfortable.
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by thebigman433 on Sunday November 26, 2023 @07:33PM (#38426726)
Can I ask how much something like this is? Ive been considering getting something similar, partially for work, and partially for going to concerts without having to worry about damaging my ears.
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by arrakeenrevived on Sunday November 26, 2023 @07:45PM (#38426797)
They're not custom made, but I recently bought a couple pairs of "Vibes" and "Loop" earplugs and they are easily the best <$50 purchase I've made in the last year. I prefer them to Etymotics (one of the other commonly recommended earplugs). I carry them everywhere with me and even wear them at places like restaurants to mute the noise. I can't recommend them enough.

Vibes: https://www.discovervibes.com/new-products/vibes-high-fideli...

Loop: https://us.loopearplugs.com/

Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by teeray on Sunday November 26, 2023 @08:40PM (#38427132)
Carrying them everywhere has definitely been a pro move for me. The number of times I’ve been caught in a super loud bar or a restaurant with surprise loud live music makes the paltry burden of having them on my key ring worth it.
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by Solvate8441 on Monday November 27, 2023 @12:17AM (#38428368)
I'd even say making sure you have a well-constructed carrying case that allows you to keep them on your keys 24/7 is more important than any concerns about comfort or sound quality, which are still really important. Hearing protection that you don't have on you is useless against unexpected loud environments.
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by fuzzylightbulb on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @12:14AM (#38442587)
Eargasm earplugs come with a little metal screw together case that can go on your keyring. It feels indestructible and keeps the dirt and grime out. Absolute game changer to have them on your person by default.
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by shlant on Monday November 27, 2023 @09:48AM (#38432822)
I coincidentally JUST bought a pair of Loops today after my Dubs started falling apart after almost 15 years of use. Happy to hear another good review of the Loops. I like that the aesthetic is interesting which is a great conversation starter at shows - from which I take the opportunity to remind people to protect their ears!
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by bradknowles on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @12:34AM (#38455931)
I need either big thick closed cell foam earplugs, or earplugs with a silicone triple flange. Over the years, I've tried everything I can find, and nothing else seems to work.

Etymotic seems to have the best triple flange ear tips I've found, but the earphones themselves are fragile and easy to break. Shure has good in-ear monitors, but their triple flange ear tips are too hard, and hurt. But the Etymoic eartips will fit on the Shure IEMs.

But none of those are noise cancelling, and none of those are wireless. So, for the purpose of blocking out sound at night while trying to sleep, none of that helps.

Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by amluto on Sunday November 26, 2023 @07:44PM (#38426793)
$200-$300. You can DIY the impressions or get an audiologist to do it.

Westone is the major brand if you want your audiologist to do the whole thing.

Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by NordSteve on Sunday November 26, 2023 @11:10PM (#38427955)
I paid about $250 for mine (made by Starkey), this included both 10db and 17db plugs. They work a lot better than the high fidelity earplugs I've tried off of Amazon. Starkey apparently retains a 3d scan of your ear canal and can make new sets if/when you lose them.
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by cactusplant7374 on Sunday November 26, 2023 @07:32PM (#38426720)
I have been thinking about getting custom ear plugs for the AirPod Pros as the tips don’t fit my ears.

My use case is that there is a lot of dangerous noise in the third world and I want to protect my ears when running.

Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by astrange on Sunday November 26, 2023 @10:16PM (#38427671)
There's several third party tips for those with different materials. I use Crystal.
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by cactusplant7374 on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @10:56AM (#38447065)
Thanks for the recommendation. Looking into it.
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by lukasb on Sunday November 26, 2023 @09:53PM (#38427539)
Expensive, time-consuming, and after multiple trips to different audiologists I never got a good impression of my right ear. If it works for you though (I'm probably a rare case) I'm sure it's great.
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by lovelyviking on Sunday November 26, 2023 @10:06PM (#38427618)
How much -DB one needs for complete quietness? May be it is possible to tell from a lot of experience?
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by TaylorAlexander on Sunday November 26, 2023 @10:30PM (#38427734)
According to some website I found, 30dB is a pretty quiet room and a rock concert is around 120+dB so you’d need -90dB to hear quiet at a rock concert. However even if you completely blocked all sound through the ear canal you’d probably get sound going through your skull so there’s just a limit to what’s going to really work.
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by broken-kebab on Monday November 27, 2023 @06:23AM (#38431021)
There's no such thing as complete quietness for a human to experience. Not getting external signals brain immediately, and unavoidably starts to hallucinate noise
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by karlgrz on Sunday November 26, 2023 @10:06PM (#38427620)
Seconded, I play in several very loud metal bands and I went through this same process around 2016 and my earplugs are still going strong. I love the option of changing the filters at will. Well worth the time and money, for me.
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by RowanH on Sunday November 26, 2023 @11:39PM (#38428128)
This is what's used a lot in motorsport as race cars are insanely loud. Mine was pumping out north of 120db at one point at a 1m static noise test at 4500rpm (went to 7600rpm... and you sit less than 1m from the exhaust..)

I had full impressions done with custom in-ear monitors and I've never been happier. Makes plane flights absolutely tolerable too.

In-ear monitors vs sleeved (like eytomtic slip-ons) are much better practically day to day as the wires exit flush with the bottom of your earlobes (needed for getting helmets on and off) which means beanies, sleeping on a plane etc you can rest the side of your head on something without wires/end of the monitor.

Around $700NZD / $300USD done here in NZ.

Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by joshu on Monday November 27, 2023 @02:00AM (#38429084)
what were you driving? i have an old lotus that is similar. ear pain within minutes. engine is inches behind my head.

thankfully none of my other cars need more than a plain helmet.

Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by RowanH on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @01:10AM (#38456116)
Lotus 7 styled machine. Has a supercharged honda k20a, the exhaust exit is drivers side....
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by toast0 on Monday November 27, 2023 @02:12AM (#38429127)
> Makes plane flights absolutely tolerable too.

Do your monitors make equalizing pressure better or worse than without? Or is the tolerable just about the noise levels?

Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by RowanH on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @01:11AM (#38456128)
Probably a little bit worse on descent. It's all about noise levels - constant drone and screaming babies.
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by teruakohatu on Monday November 27, 2023 @08:06AM (#38431835)
Where did you get them done in NZ?
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by RowanH on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @01:09AM (#38456110)
Sorry for the late reply - Pacific Ears (you get the impressions done at Bay Audiology)
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by teruakohatu on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @01:10AM (#38456121)
Thank you and no worries!
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by RowanH on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @01:12AM (#38456138)
You're welcome. Fleur is awesome to deal with there. I think the ones I got were the custom fit j2's.
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by teruakohatu on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @01:14AM (#38456145)
Thank you. I was just about to ask which model you got!

Do you know how much of a difference single dual or triple drivers make?

Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by RowanH on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @01:23AM (#38456200)
Sorry can't tell ya as only bought the one set, so nothing to compare against...
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by teruakohatu on Wednesday November 29, 2023 @01:27AM (#38456229)
No worries thanks for the advice. The price of that model seems good.
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by brandall10 on Monday November 27, 2023 @02:27AM (#38429204)
This was addressed early in the article: "For years, I have been trying to improve my personal audio-monitoring situation without going to the expense of the systems used by professional touring bands, which include custom-molded earpieces."
Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by catchnear4321 on Monday November 27, 2023 @06:49AM (#38431197)
> I then hooked up a chain of breakout boards from my full-time employer, SparkFun Electronics…

the diy part was not a small part.

Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by djaychela on Monday November 27, 2023 @08:20AM (#38431967)
I have similar made here in the UK. Love them, wear them for gigs plus when I go to a club.

For anyone in the UK check out the musicians hearing health scheme. They provide the plugs at greatly reduced cost, and I can't speak highly enough of them.

https://www.musicianshearingservices.co.uk/what-we-do/musici...

Re:Build Your Own Hi-Fi Ear Defenders by distances on Monday November 27, 2023 @10:47AM (#38433654)
Around 200-230€ in Germany. I have a model where the human voice frequencies have a bit less attenuation, absolutely perfect for noisy bars where you want to hear your buddy at the same table.

Less perfect for noisy restaurants as eating will make your ears to wiggle a bit, causing some shifting sounds if you are wearing plugs. But great again for noisy public transport and flights. I always keep them in a small pouch in my pocket.