The rice cooker doesn't know either, it will take whatever is needed to take. Short of putting an extensive sensor array and ask you for the kind of rice you put in it, there's probably no way to actually predict it.
On the quick/normal setting, they taste different. My best image would be on black tea: you can use 95C water or near 100C water, one is quicker than the other to fully extract the flavor, but won't result in the same profile (you might actually prefer the quicker one, your choice)
On the UX...welcome to a world where you buy products of different cultures.
If that helps, many people don't actually follow the dosing cup to the letter and adjust the amount of rice and water to their taste, relative the rice we're using at that time after a few tries (at least I do, and so does anyone I talked to), so there is no guideline that would help us.
I'd perhaps compare it to coffee, there are machines doing it all automatically but they taste bland, and the better tools will expect you to know what you're getting into. Rice cookers are as serious business in Japan as espresso machine in Italy, you won't get a high end machine that catters to people who're not familiar with what's going on.
> The rice cooker doesn't know either, it will take whatever is needed to take. Short of putting an extensive sensor array and ask you for the kind of rice you put in it, there's probably no way to actually predict it.
Why doesn't it know when it's so consistent every time? How does the ninja know? How does this one know when it's closer to 10 minutes? Seems like you should be able to estimate it down to a within a few minutes at start, then refine that estimate if need be. It's helpful to know whether something will take 15, 20 min or 45 to an hour.
Simple rice cookers have only a 100°C temperature sensor (or switch) that turns off the main element once the water is boiled.
My question is what sensor do they use to detect the difference?
I did some Googling but couldn't find any info.
That's enough to manage a temperature curve and predict the last 10~15min of cooking (mine shows a time only 15min before the end), and doesn't require much input from the user.
But on the other hand, if this is a piece of equipment you use regularly, you'll learn pretty quickly how long each thing typically takes, and after that initial learning period, the fuzzy progress indicator is no longer very valuable, and doesn't seem worth investing the engineering and UX time (and resulting higher product cost).
As a software-oriented community, I understand the impulse to throw code at the situation, but this seems like a situation where the cost of doing so doesn't really help very much. And it might actually make things worse, since most users are conditioned to trust/believe the sensors/indicators they see, and a countdown that keeps dynamically changing/jumping/slowing will confuse quite a few people who don't understand why it's a hard problem to solve.
And I think it's worth noting that this is par for the course with most things related to food prep. I'm always looking up cooking times for various things until I memorize the things that I cook often, and this seems like just another case of doing a quick search for a timetable.
How many times do you use it for the first time? Seems like a bit of an edge case to spend engineering time/add extra parts for.
It's not some edge case, it's literally the biggest question after you push start.
Expecting a cooking tool to hold your hand to this degree doesn’t seem reasonable to me.
Or you could just put the rice in extra early. It will get done early. But it will still be hot and perfect when you're ready to eat?
It feels like you have a big misunderstanding of rice cookers.
Because rice isn't consistent.
This is most apparent with certain varieties - a cup of imported Basmati "Royal" brand will take longer and require more water than the same amount of "Three Elephants" Jasmine rice from Thailand.
Even the same varieties produced by different brands/countries will turn out differently in terms of time required. This relates to differences in climate, storage, processing, and other factors.
Depending on environmental conditions (temperature, etc) and amount being cooked, will vary but the results are repeatable quality rice, rather than a fixed cook time and variable quantity rice.
More expensive but better quality rice.
They had a feature (that I believe it's just integrated into every model now) labeled as "neuro fuzzy", decades before the neutral networks boom. I believe it's really just describing hysteresis. So it's doing things based on feedback from whatever sensors they have, but there's no learning from run to run (based on how you actually use the thing).
I also hate its lack of estimated times.
Put rice in rice cooker. Rinse the rice and pour out water until it isn't cloudy. Add water to the depth of one thumb digit. Hit cook button, then ignore it.
Brown rice, white rice, whatever, all the same.
I'd have to check if we're still using a zojirushi or tiger, or are using a Korean cuckoo now.
> How is it that this brand, with its special measuring cups and precise water lines, can't tell me how long it's going to take, but the ninja multi function pressure cooker could tell me down to the second as soon as I hit start?
Well that one, cus they know people will just eyeball a thumb digit of water. So it won't know until it gets closer to done.
I remember the first time we got a Zojirushi hot water dispenser, and even then it was like "Wait, you have to push these tiny buttons in what order again?" Whereas the previous cheap one we had a giant, easy to use button front and center.
Maybe it really is a cultural difference...?
But we ignore all that and just do the thumb-level of water and hit the button that says cook (and also says like three other things too, but whatever). We ignore the other buttons.
There's an argument that you should wash your rice before you cook it to remove contaminants, particularly arsenic, which is a common soil contaminant.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Arsenic-levels-mg-kg-in-...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S187853521...).
> a Zojirushi cup isn't the same as an imperial cup
Indeed, a zojirushi cup is 180ml, while an imperial cup is 284ml. Perhaps you meant a US Customary cup, at either 237ml or 240ml? Then there's a whole mess of other measurements people call a "cup" (118ml, 227ml, 250ml...)
> The gō or cup is a traditional Japanese unit based on the ge which is equal to 10 shaku or 1⁄10 shō. Back in the year 1891 it was officially equated with 2401/13310 liters. The gō is the traditional amount used for a serving of rice and a cup of sake in Japanese cuisine. Although the gō is no longer used as an official unit, 1-gō measuring cups or their 180ml metric equivalents are often included with modern premium rice cookers.
* https://greedy-panda.com/2020/06/the-rice-measuring-cup-expl...
> Measuring rice correctly is the key to make delicious rice. For rice measurement, we use a traditional Japanese measure called go or rice cup. A level cup of this measuring cup is 1 rice cup. 1 rice cup equals approximately ¾ US cup or 180 ml.
Right, but a US cup isn't the same as a Japanese cup, or a UK cup, or even a US "legal cup" etc.. unfortunately the "cup" isn't a useful unit of measurement any more than a non-XKCD-1179[1] date is a useful expression of a date (T_T)
> why would I want slow rice if there's a quick rice?
Slow rice is better.
> isn't it just a ratio of rice to water?
Yes (and therefore, indeed, WTF (!!!(?!)))
> what if I want quick brown rice? It's not possible.
There are levels to this game.
> You have no idea how long it's going to take
Indeed. Nobody does.
> As much as I appreciate good rice
Do you, though?
> I'd much rather suffer a 10% degradatio... if... controls could be simplified...Does something like that exist?
Yes (but not in/from Japan)
> Do the Japanese prefer having more options to tweak?
Yes
> Is this a broader cultural preference, or just something special about this one brand?
The former; every Japanese rice cooker (and website) is like this, only more so[2]
[2]: seems like an infinitely recursive statement, since "every Japanese rice cooker" includes the Zojirushi rice cookers under discussion; however, infinite recursion is actually an explicitly-supported feature of TRON (OS, but that's the O in TRON), which powers almost all Japanese rice cookers[3]
Rice washing is a fairly common practice in cultures that cook rice. You are likely from a culture where rice is not common so the solution is to look it up. My ten year old zojirushi rice cooker came with instructions telling you how to wash rice.
A "cup" is a horrible measure of volume because there are so many definitions. This is clearly not zojirushi's fault.
If you don't know what GABA rice is, may i suggest you look it up? Seriously, if you do not understand what something is, look it up instead of dismissing it as "unfriendly to a westerner".
https://www.disruptingjapan.com/the-lies-myths-and-secrets-o...
I disagree that my reply was condescending.
In the US at least, many brands spray additional vitamins and minerals to increase the nutritional value of rice, and specifically state not to wash the rice right on the packaging.
Because of this, there seems to be a pretty wide split on cultural lines on whether one should wash their rice, especially online.
Um what? That's absurd. Cooking rice should take like 15-25 minutes, 35 minutes tops.
A lot of the Japanese rice cookers cook it a bit lower/slower than you'd normally do on a stovetop in a pot. The result is usually rice with nicer texture and flavor, but if you're only ever buying the cheapest rice, or value the speed it can be cooked, it's probably not worthwhile. Just stick to the really cheap rice cookers that usually take around 20 mins.
Here's a screenshot from the Zojirushi Fuzzy's manual, it generally takes around an hour to cook any rice.
If you ever want a UX example, go out and buy the following:
https://www.amazon.com/Casio-Classic-Core-DW9052-1-Wristwatc...
https://www.amazon.com/Timex-T5E901-Ironman-Classic-Black/dp...
NO NOT THROW AWAY THE CASIO MANUAL
Begin using the G-Shock first, making sure to learn how to do common watch tasks. Use chronometer, change time, set timers/alarms, etc.
Then, after doing that for awhile, trying using the Ironman. Just for kicks, don't read the manual. Attempt the same common tasks.
It's mind-boggling how esoterically-unnecessary Casio UX is.
“Auto-calendar out until the year 2099, the watch does not have to be adjusted for the number days in month even leap year until 2099”
Amazing! (That they dare list that as a feature, not that it seems to have a bug for 2100, which won’t be a leap year)
The Xiaomi one looks beautiful and simple. I'll have to look for one next time I'm overseas.
The Cuckoo ones still look really complex, though. Was there a particular model with simpler UI?
I own a mid-level Zojirushi and it makes fine rice. No better or worse than the cheap Target rice cooker I had before, or the slightly less cheap Ninja pressure cooker that also made rice. Definitely better than stovetop, worse than good Asian restaurants.
But the Zojirushi stands out to me in terms of how user-unfriendly it is to a westerner...
First, it comes with its own rice measuring cups, because a Zojirushi cup isn't the same as an imperial cup. Which is kinda strange to begin with, because isn't it just a ratio of rice to water?
But there's not just one mismatched measuring cup, there's two. One is green and one is white, and the green one is for rice that isn't pre-washed, but that isn't labeled in English anywhere. And what is rice washing anyway?
Then there's the control panel UI. You have to choose between white rice, brown rice (that's fine), and also GABA rice and quick rice. What the heck is GABA and why would I want slow rice if there's a quick rice? And what if I want quick brown rice? It's not possible.
Once you hit start, no timer is present. You have no idea how long it's going to take (turns out, about an hour). How is it that this brand, with its special measuring cups and precise water lines, can't tell me how long it's going to take, but the ninja multi function pressure cooker could tell me down to the second as soon as I hit start?
As much as I appreciate good rice, using this appliance is such a cognitive burden that I keep wanting to replace it. I still use this thing every week, but it annoys me every time. I constantly think about selling it and getting a simpler Western model instead just because it's so complex and overengineered. I'd much rather suffer a 10% degradation in output quality if that means the controls could be simplified to just white/brown & start, with a built-in timer.
Does something like that exist?
Why does Zojirushi make it so complicated? Do the Japanese prefer having more options to tweak? (Reminds me of my old Casio watches). Is this a broader cultural preference, or just something special about this one brand?