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Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by b0x68 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @09:39AM (#36786134)
My wife works in the audit department of a bank. I'm heavily regulated by the SEC on what stocks, ETFs, mutual funds I can buy/sell. An internal group monitors my buying/selling and makes approval/denial before I can do so.

I have to hold an ETF for 1 month before I can sell it--not that I should be swing trading ETFs, but still. It's very frustrating at times, especially when I'm relegated to using just her bank's trading platform, too.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by jchanimal on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @09:46AM (#36786245)
I think is standard practice at larger firms in the banking industry, it should be for government as well.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by ghaff on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @09:56AM (#36786413)
There are significant restrictions in a number of sectors--including ones that don't necessarily compensate terribly well--that I expect many people reading this would bridle at if they applied to themselves but which are in place (usually for understandable reasons) nonetheless.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by ksec on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:04AM (#36786532)
Not just in banking industry but many other Finance or Legal industry as well. Pretty much standard practice.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by vinceguidry on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:07AM (#36786593)
Why would this solve the problem? They're still incentivized to make decisions on behalf of the nation in their own financial interests. The conflict of interest in the financial industry is with the companies they work with and for. For lawmakers it's with the whole country. They should absolutely not be allowed to benefit personally from legislating.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by datavirtue on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:40AM (#36787174)
I wish we just called people up like we do for jury duty.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by ghaff on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:53AM (#36787427)
That basically devolves all the power to full-time congressional staffs because the representatives themselves would be even less educated on issues before them than they are today.

(Though this is already close to being the case in some states that only have part-time legislators who are paid next to nothing.)

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by katbyte on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @05:40PM (#36793845)
> representatives themselves would be even less educated on issues before them than they are today.

i dare say politicians are far from even the smallest bit educated on any issue as it is not what gets them votes, and even an amateur in any field or profession is likely more aware and educated then them. how many times do we hear about laws the pass about technology that clearly have no idea how said technology works?

perhapses having expects, scientists, and data be how we make choices would result in better outcomes then simply who is best at winning a popularity contest.

i recall a study done with high school class leaders where instead of voting they did something else and it resulted in better, more capable leadership, but i can't find it at the moment

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by mensetmanusman on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @11:26AM (#36787996)
That would be amazing. Maybe have some minimum requirement afterwards with knowledge though.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by HWR_14 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @01:00PM (#36789627)
Government tests for knowledge to participate in democracy do not have a good history.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by b0x68 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @09:52AM (#36786354)
Agreed.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by grog454 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @09:56AM (#36786406)
Why? What kinds of things might you be able to do through your wife that require all this scrutiny?
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by Brian_K_White on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:09AM (#36786630)
The wife may be privy to the banks customers activities, and the husband must be considered privy to all the same, simply by proximity regardless of her honesty or intent.

The wife may have knowledge about $bigco buying or selling $bigthing, and the husband may gain that same knowledge from her, even if she's honest and never intentionally disclosed it. (people aren't perfect and clues can slip, or he simply has access to her laptop or that scratch pad where she wrote down the essentials of a phone call etc.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by datavirtue on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:46AM (#36787298)
I worked at a publicly traded company where everyone internal had knowledge of product releases with Apple. It was a trading frenzy with open discussion of trading decisions that predictably paid off. I remember it distinctly because it was right after company-wide training on insider trading with talks of prison time etc before our discounted stock grants. All it did was teach people how to conduct insider trading. The training was considered all that was needed for compliance. Zero enforcement, insider trading is the default. Humans cannot resist.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by ghaff on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @11:00AM (#36787573)
While I don't know the specifics, product releases tend to have a whole lot less to do with stock movement than the details of financial performance. And during much of the last couple of decades it has been pretty hard for investments in Apple not to pay off.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by datavirtue on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @03:38PM (#36792026)
Product release from a ragged-arse of a company that had no prior dealings with Apple nor any public information about a coming product with Apple? Insider trading. It's a fine line that most can easily convince themselves to cross.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by b0x68 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:20AM (#36786816)
She has access to every and any database as she is the one who pulls the data for auditors, so is privileged to confidential and/or non-public knowledge. And like someone mentioned above, just by proximity, I (potentially) have access to that knowledge.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by ghaff on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:05AM (#36786552)
She would almost certainly have early knowledge of irregularities at her own company but potentially more broadly in the sector because people talk. Trading restrictions don't really cost an employer anything so they often figure that it's easier to get rid of even the possible appearance of impropriety even if it costs some employees/their spouses money.

At the most basic level, I worked for a company that wouldn't let you sell company stock, even as a non-executive, during a window around earnings being reported.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by FuriouslyAdrift on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:05AM (#36786543)
Timing buys/sells before during investigations, early access to judgements, pre-IPO info... your basic insider trading.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by neuronexmachina on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:03AM (#36786519)
An example that comes to mind would be overlooking something during an audit in exchange for a kickback.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by BlandDuck on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:03AM (#36786511)
Trade on insider information.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by BurningFrog on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @09:56AM (#36786417)
I can't think of any other situation when one person getting a job puts legal obligations on their spouse, but I haven't looked into it.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by toast0 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:39AM (#36787155)
My spouse was an elected official in California, which came with reporting requirements for stock transactions and gifts for both of us[1] But then, in a community property state, we don't have separate stock transactions and gifts are maybe?

For us, it was easier to avoid making stock transactions that triggered reporting and avoid accepting gifts that would trigger reporting, than to fill out the reports. I had equity based compensation that had to be reported, but then everything else went into diversified mutual funds, which is a good idea anyway.

[1] See CA form 700. But note, this doesn't apply to federal elected officials from CA, only to state and local officials.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by pc86 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:52AM (#36787399)
I wonder if states can require this type of disclosure from federally elected officials or it violates some other law.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by skizm on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:03AM (#36786516)
To less of a degree, when applying for law enforcement jobs, family members and sometimes friends have to surrender a lot of personal data. I had to have over my SSN along with pretty much all my PII and do interviews on behalf family members when they applied to be cops. I tried to say no, but at the end of the day they're holding their jobs hostage until I comply. Hate it.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by mschuster91 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:20AM (#36786808)
What, the cops are actually doing at least something to weed out the bad apples now?

Sarcasm aside: interesting how far they go for a simple copper on the street now. Here in Germany, that level of background checks (Sicherheitsüberprüfung Ü2/Ü3) is only done for higher level (i.e. leadership) cops and IT staff.

[1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicherheits%C3%BCberpr%C3%BCfu...

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by tivert on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:25AM (#36786908)
>> To less of a degree, when applying for law enforcement jobs, family members and sometimes friends have to surrender a lot of personal data. I had to [hand] over my SSN along with pretty much all my PII and do interviews on behalf family members when they applied to be cops. I tried to say no, but at the end of the day they're holding their jobs hostage until I comply. Hate it.

> What, the cops are actually doing at least something to weed out the bad apples now?

How is forcing a friend or family member to surrender their own PII have anything to do about "weed[ing] out the bad apples"?

My intuition is that those kinds of background checks have been going on for a long time, and have been focused on stuff like preventing infiltration by organized crime rather than specifically rooting out police brutality.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by mcpackieh on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:36AM (#36787101)
> preventing infiltration by organized crime

Sounds like they're trying to weed out some of the bad apples then, aren't they? Would you rather they not be doing this? It doesn't address all the ways in which a cop might be bad, but you shouldn't let perfect be the enemy of good.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by pc86 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:53AM (#36787430)
Nothing they said even remotely suggests they're against this type of background check, just that checking up on your wife's credit and social circle says nothing about whether you are a "bad apple" yourself.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by mcpackieh on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @11:05AM (#36787662)
It's a confusing comment because in one paragraph they say the practice doesn't weed out bad apples, but then in the subsequent paragraph they concede that it probably does. The only way to square these is if cops affiliated with organized crime aren't classified as bad apples, but that makes zero sense.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by tivert on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @04:53PM (#36793177)
> The only way to square these is if cops affiliated with organized crime aren't classified as bad apples, but that makes zero sense.

I see how it was confusing, but what I was thinking was the nature of what is considered a "bad apple" has changed over time. I think police forces have been trying to prevent things like organized crime infiltration and corruption for a long time, while things like excessive use of force and racial bias have only started to be considered serious problem by them much more recently. Acting surprised about background checks seems like it's exclusively referring to the latter, while the process itself (e.g. getting friends' SSNs) seems mostly target at the former.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by notduncansmith on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:42AM (#36787221)
> preventing infiltration

I believe this is correct.

> by organized crime

I believe this depends on the precinct.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by mschuster91 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @12:31PM (#36789125)
> How is forcing a friend or family member to surrender their own PII have anything to do about "weed[ing] out the bad apples"?

Well, interviewing family and friends can definitely help weed out people with problematic far-right attitudes, a history of domestic violence or other issues.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by tiltowait on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:57AM (#36787514)
A friend applied for a state police job. They wanted references and interviews not only from immediate family members, but also a number of friends, his adjacent neighbors, multiple current coworkers, his current supervisor, and all past supervisors he was able to get ahold of (with detailed explanations if he was unable to comply with the last).

And then, when they interviewed me, they asked me for further references for him.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by amalcon on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:09AM (#36786621)
Your spouse can definitely affect your ability to get a security clearance. Last I heard, cannabis use is still relevant to this, even if you live in a state where it's legal. Your spouse being a foreign national can also be significant, depending on which country and their connections there.

It's not really a legal obligation as such ("only" putting the job at risk), but it does cover rather a lot of jobs.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by BurningFrog on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:41AM (#36787191)
That doesn't put any legal obligation on the spouse though.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by amalcon on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @12:33PM (#36789153)
Correct, and I did say so. While "your spouse will lose his or her job if you do X, Y, or Z" is not technically a legal requirement, for most people it's a distinction without a difference.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by galleywest200 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:12AM (#36786680)
> Last I heard, cannabis use is still relevant to this, even if you live in a state where it's legal.

The process of doing away with this entirely started last year: https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-spy-agencies-could-hire-for...

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by mschuster91 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:21AM (#36786833)
Makes sense now that it's legal and foreign/criminal actors can't extort people any more for being gay or smoking pot.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by kevinventullo on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:36AM (#36787100)
Well, a closeted person in a conservative part of the country might still be vulnerable to extortion. Makes me wonder if being openly out actually helps with getting security clearance.

I feel like there’s a comedy sketch in here…

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by massysett on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:35AM (#36787090)
It is not legal. It is a violation of federal law.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by mschuster91 on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @12:34PM (#36789164)
Thing is, in a legal state there is no leverage for a bad actor, unless the US federal government changes its policy - but that's very unlikely under a Democrat government given they're pro federal legalization, and even under a hardliner like Trump the Republicans didn't dare touch the issue because it would counteract their entire "states rights" agenda and piss off a sizable amount of their own voters.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by dudul on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:38AM (#36787142)
Really? I work in the gambling industry and nobody in my household is allowed to gamble/bet online just because of that.

When I worked in finance, myself and my wife also had a lot of restrictions in regards to our investments.

Anyways, these are just a few examples, but there are a lot of domains of activity where restrictions extend not only to the direct employee but also to their spouse or direct family.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by PartiallyTyped on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:06AM (#36786570)
My immediate family can't trade Amazon stock even though I am just some random employee in this behemoth.

It's relatively minor, but it's still legal repercussions.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by mikestew on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:21AM (#36786832)
...though I am just some random employee in this behemoth.

I'm skeptical of "just some random employee", or a ban on immediate family trading AMZN. Because it's the first I've heard of this for an SDE that doesn't work in finance for Amazon, and I know plenty of folks that work at Amazon and trading AMZN has come up.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd sure double-check on that because it doesn't match my experience with other large companies (for instance, there was a time when my spouse worked in Microsoft finance, and I had to have my MSFT trades approved or something, but not banned from trading).

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by ghaff on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:30AM (#36786992)
Trading windows are pretty normal but, if there's RSU comp, they have to be able to trade AMZN even if it's just pre-scheduled/approved.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by PartiallyTyped on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:23AM (#36786867)
I read it on my contract, but I may be forgetting something.

It is possible that this is org wide.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by astura on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @01:45PM (#36790335)
You can't?!

Just one off the top of my head - my friend works for the lottery so he nor his immediate family can buy lottery tickets.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by csomar on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @10:38AM (#36787131)
Don't worry, to make it fairer Congress will make a law to ban trading for the rest of the citizenry. It won't affect the market too much though as they'll be the only guys trading and owning stocks.
Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by blitzar on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @11:27AM (#36788010)
Also at a bank. If I am authorized to trade it on behalf of the Bank - I am not allowed to trade it for myself, nor is anyone in my family.

Anything I am not authorized to trade it on behalf of the Bank, I have to seek approval and agree to minimum holding periods (for me and my family). Anything close to what I am authorized to trade it on behalf of the Bank would be instantly rejected for personal trading.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by tmaly on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @01:56PM (#36790501)
I am in finance. We are not allow to sell stock unless it is in very small windows after earnings releases have happened.

I am not sure how this proposed ban would handle cases where someone is a founder of a company that goes public? I agree the current setup is not good.

Look at how many members in Congress have made millions trading stock.

All that aside, I don't like the double standard on insider trading. I think the law should be applied equally to everyone.

Re:Senators to Propose Ban on U.S. Lawmakers, Executive Bran... by olliej on Wednesday July 19, 2023 @02:28PM (#36791026)
I think the answer is "if you are a founder of a company going public (or any business), you shouldn't be in office".

This is the requirement the GOP had for Jimmy Carter.