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Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by andrewstuart on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @05:27PM (#36317661)
The surprising thing is the government makes no explicit effort to control prices.

It does not ask or legislate for prices to not go up.

What seems to be happening in Australia is companies are taking the chance to pump their prices. Presumably this results in high profits.

I guess there would be stats that should if profits have been going up during this period of inflation.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by asdff on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @05:37PM (#36317822)
How much would a gallon of milk be without subsidies to the farmer and producer? $40?
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by mullingitover on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @05:54PM (#36318086)
I think it's the other way around - without the government stabilizing the market with subsidies, dairy would be dirt cheap, then expensive, then cheap, then totally unavailable, etc.

Edit/correction: actually, the USDA doesn't operate price floors anymore. "Eventually, the USDA decided it had had enough, ending the price support program in 2014."[1]

[1] https://modernfarmer.com/2022/05/cheese-caves-missouri/

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by zeroonetwothree on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @11:56PM (#36321249)
The market has already come up with a solution for this--futures.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by sokoloff on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @06:32AM (#36323861)
The contract size for milk future is 200K pounds, a little over 23K gallons, or about 500 years of my family's consumption. It seems like policies intended to stabilize the supply and price of milk are working better than futures for my use case.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by nayuki on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @03:23PM (#36331199)
It's like you never heard of wholesalers vs. retailers.

You're acting like your family has to buy milk by the tankerful or flour by the palletful.

More examples from daily life: The electricity market, board lots vs. odd lots in stock trading, fractional shares, restaurant supply stores.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by doubled112 on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @07:37PM (#36319195)
In Canada dairy farms throw out their over supply. There are quotas and they cannot exceed them.

If that's not price fixing the other way, I don't know what it is.

Like the comment next to mine says, it is likely to ensure stability.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by ajsnigrutin on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @06:10AM (#36323711)
Average person would on average pay the same, less taxes for subsidies and more in the store.

The problem is with smaller countries, where your local milk will be more expensive (and you less taxed) but your neigbor countries' subsidized milk will still be cheaper, and you'd buy that and in the process, destroy your local milk industry.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by adventured on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @05:33PM (#36317777)
It's not surprising. Price controls very commonly fail in horrific fashion. Many of the basketcase economies of the last 50 years have infamously tried such. Governments are not remotely equipped to manage price controls effectively (including needing to rapidly + correctly adjust to changes), and none have ever successfully managed blanket price controls well (there isn't a single modern economic record of that occurring in non-war time). There are only niche instances of price controls being effective (narrowly targeted, often either temporary or offset).
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by HarryHirsch on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @05:40PM (#36317865)
On the other hand, price controls work remarkably well in medicine - look at medical costs in the European economies.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by killingtime74 on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @05:42PM (#36317892)
That's because the government is a monopoly on buying those services from the service providers (Don't get me wrong I am fully in support). If there is less than Monopoly control by the government price controls don't work.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by npongratz on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @05:47PM (#36317967)
> That's because the government is a monopoly on buying those services from the service providers

That's called a monopsony: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/monopsony.asp

"A single buyer dominates a monopsonized market while an individual seller controls a monopolized market."

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by chimeracoder on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @07:48PM (#36319306)
> That's because the government is a monopoly on buying those services from the service providers

That's true in some markets, but not all.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by Aunche on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @05:57PM (#36318136)
Pharmaceutical companies will continue to develop new drugs so long as Americans are willing to spend infinite money on them. If they can make a marginal profit on selling some to a European country, that's a nice bonus. If the US also implemented price controls, companies would have little incentive to fund the development of new drugs.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by HarryHirsch on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @06:25PM (#36318472)
Offsetting R&D costs and directing R&D are a policy problem, and a completely different beast. The antibiotic resistance crisis is in front of us, yet the big returns are in cancer, with the additional wrinkle being that what is needed is new antibiotics of last resort. That's a problem of a kind that the market cannot solve.

Also: generic shortages. Generics are a low-margin business with maybe 6 suppliers workdwide. If one facility goes off-line for this or that reason there's going to be a shortage, and slack capacity is punished by the market. Right now the cisplatin shortage is in the news, and again the market is no help.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by nonfamous on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @10:02PM (#36320462)
Generics may be a low-margin business for manufacturers, but they are emphatically not so for retailers. The likes of CVS make a lot of profit from generics, which makes it surprising that this hasn’t spurred pressure from on the manufacturers to amp up supply.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by HarryHirsch on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @10:26PM (#36320656)
It's a constrained market - people aren't going to buy more cisplatin or cephalosporin just because it's cheaper. (Yes, people do shop around for a butt enlargement or Lasik but these things are strictly optional and can wait until the next month, however when you need a prescription drug you really need it.)
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by chimeracoder on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @07:52PM (#36319331)
> If the US also implemented price controls, companies would have little incentive to fund the development of new drugs.

Your comment is correct except this sentence. In reality, if the US implemented price controls, it would simply reduce the negotiating power of European countries. Prices in the US would go down, and prices elsewhere would increase. The pharmaceutical profits would decrease on net, but there would still be plenty of incentive for R&D (much of which is already derisked by the massive amounts of public money spent on it with zero expectation of return).

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by iopq on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @11:10PM (#36320954)
Pharma is a terrible investment, they spend all money on R&D and acquisitions of firms that completed trials successfully

I don't know why people rail against Pharma when healthcare like hospitals have huge returns on investment in comparison.

https://www.morningstar.com/etfs/arcx/xph/performance

look how much pharma index trails healthcare

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by Nasrudith on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @05:35AM (#36323508)
Whatever is the least "cozy" rhetorically, that is associated with good feelings, mother and apple pie style bullcrap, gets to be the designated scapegoat.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by Tknl on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @06:34PM (#36318561)
In the Netherlands this has also lead to numerous drug shortages.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by VMG on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @06:15AM (#36323745)
Same in Germany
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by throw3823423 on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @09:49PM (#36320338)
What makes price controls on medicine work is the other side of the equation: Massive subsidies to supply. How expensive is it to become a doctor in Europe? How many are trained every year? Who builds the hospitals? Ultimately it's not a matter of price controls, but turning a large percentage of the whole thing into a public service. And even then, it's not hard to find some issues, it just works better, in most ways, that the US' bad mix of public and private incentives and regulation.

When we discuss price controls, we tend to be talking about situations where the supply of goods is provided by the private sector. Then price controls often lead to supply shortfalls and black markets. It's easy to understand if we make labor to be the good with a price ceiling. Many american companies would love programmers at $20/hr, but they can't find any. Imagine that the government caps said salaries at $20: We'd see fewer people going into the field vs something easier, or that just was allowed to pay more. The companies that still get $200+ worth of value for programmers would still want to pay more, but without the supply, they'd try to skirt regulations by becoming more competitive in indirect ways. Maybe your benefit package would include a mansion, and an expensive company car, and a live-in staff. Keeping prices down when demand vastly exceeds supply is very hard.

There is such thing as excessively high prices though, via monopolies and regulations that force waste. I think that's a bigger reason for the US' healthcare pricing problems than the magic of government healthcare. What socialized medicine does is make sure that even the poorest can afford it, which can be seen as a valid objective onto itself.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by ACow_Adonis on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @05:43PM (#36317901)
That's because the debate and popular press around all this discussion in Australia (and elsewhere) is a populist/political cluster fuck and has almost nothing to do with economics.

Reserve bank doesn't want to talk about its roll in credit/ monetary expansion during the pandemic, gov doesn't want to talk about its policies to do the same and not wanting to address inflation through taxation or fiscal policy, business wants to pretend its not self interested and profit seeking, consumers don't want to admit that they might actually have to make some price-elastic decisions or change behaviours based on how much things cost, and everyone wants to pretend that we weren't responsible for fucking up housing over the last 20 years of policy or that there will be real repercussions from the boomers aging out.

So instead we get economic discussion that looks more like the multiple spider-man pointing meme.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by treeman79 on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @05:33PM (#36317771)
Read Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell. The only thing price controls do is cause shortages and long term price increases.

If companies are able to raise prices for long periods and make large prophet, that means something is completely broken.

Competition would bring in new people that offer the same goods or services at lower prices. Government regulations controls, etc stop that and interfere with natural markets.

Russia had a long history of price controls, and it never worked well.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by vkou on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @05:35PM (#36317794)
You can solve price gouging from the other end. Instead of capping prices at the point of sale, tax profits.

Right now, prices are growing, mostly due to an increase in profit margins. If the market can't optimize those profit margins down, it's the government's job to take and redistribute that surplus.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by failuser on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @05:44PM (#36317930)
Do you also propose to stop interfering in the market by providing massive government subsidies to the farmers? True market economy tend to run away and blow, big players tend to consolidate and form monopolies, the thing we have not is a very complicated compromise between free market, regulations and unspoken traditions. Please stop pretending that these things are obvious and easy.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by failuser on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @05:50PM (#36318019)
Price controls are rarely the best option (there are price controls, e.g. utilities are highly regulated). But in general you should address the causes, not try to mess with the outputs. E.g. break down the monopolies. The only reason those were allowed to raise their head again was the promise of efficiency and lower prices. I think they forgot it.
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by CTDOCodebases on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @06:09PM (#36318276)
They want inflation. How else are they suppose to get rid of all the debt they acquired during the pandemic and continue to meet ongoing demands?

Look at the signs:

- increased immigration during a housing crisis.

- pay rises for the masses to push them into higher tax brackets.

- slow gradual rate rises below inflation levels to avoid crashing the markets and to allow debtors to exit their positions without triggering a recession.

They want inflation. In a high inflation environment the entities that win have income generating assets (in this case tax payers) and high levels of debt. The debt essentially gets inflated away.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by trog on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @06:19PM (#36318391)
Applying Hanlon's Razor here: I do not believe the Australian government wants inflation. I believe they are generally incompetent, not malevolent.

They are too scared to do anything and risk losing the next election, despite the fact that they literally just won one, and they are too uncoordinated to do anything useful. It's easier to literally sit there and do nothing and put all the blame on the RBA and hope that it magically fixes itself somehow.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by CTDOCodebases on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @07:58PM (#36319383)
It’s not malevolence though. It’s incentives. Therefore Hanlon’s Razor does not apply.

The debt has to get paid somehow in order for the government to meet its ongoing financial obligations.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by juve1996 on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @09:56PM (#36320399)
Is Australia currently not meeting their debts or at risk in the short term future of not?
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by CTDOCodebases on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @12:58AM (#36321623)
You haven’t defined short term but I will say no.

When I say ongoing obligations I am referring to welfare and Medicare.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by ojbyrne on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @10:39PM (#36320739)
* * *
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by fineIllregister on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @11:10PM (#36320947)
I'll chime in because everyone is replying to complain about price controls. There is an alternative: windfall profit taxes. These have been proposed (by one political party) and blocked (by the other political party).
Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by csomar on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @05:00AM (#36323274)
> It does not ask or legislate for prices to not go up.

Yeah, this worked very well for every country/government that tried this.

Re:Do High Interest Rates Fix High Inflation? by csense on Wednesday June 14, 2023 @06:51AM (#36323974)
They tried price controls in the 1970's. It led to lines at gas stations, shortages, and rationing.

Price controls are always either a no-op (if supply meets demand below the mandated price), or lead to shortages.

For the good and simple reason that, if there's 100 units of X and people want 120 units, you have to have some algorithm to decide who doesn't get as much X as they want. With no price controls, businesses see X is selling quickly and raise the price (hopefully before the inventory hits zero all along the supply chain). Long-term, the high price encourages suppliers to produce more; the price provides a feedback signal that says "make more of this."

With price controls, that doesn't happen. The product simply sells out because there's not enough to go around, and the 20 unlucky people who don't get their X are whoever happens to walk into the store when the shelves are empty, or are at the back of the line when a shipment comes in.