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Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by manicennui on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @11:44AM (#35789343)
You have no idea what you are talking about. IBM does more cutting edge research than the entire HN bubble combined. Hard research like materials science and semiconductors.

Consulting is less than a third of their revenue and regardless of how you feel about consulting, it seems kind of idiotic to claim that they this "barely makes sense at all at this point". Are the only companies that make sense the ones that work on fad bullshit that makes the front page of HN?

Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by rybosworld on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @12:01PM (#35789645)
They have seemingly 1000 products so it's definitely not fair to apply experiences with one of those, to all of the others.

That said, I've hated the handful of IBM software products I've needed to use.

Another anecdote: I've never met a fellow developer that spoke highly of IBM. That includes the folks who used to work there.

I think it's remarkable how rare it is to meet someone that speaks highly of the company. Companies don't usually achieve such reputation without reason.

Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by gjadi on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @12:41PM (#35790293)
"There are two types of companies: the ones people complain about, and the ones nobody has heard of."
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by makeitdouble on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @05:05PM (#35794194)
In which camp do you put TSMC ?
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by fallingknife on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @05:42PM (#35794618)
Nobody has heard of. Ask people outside of tech and I bet <10% have heard of this company.
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by asdfman123 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @11:19PM (#35797440)
Lots of people have heard of them, but most of the people who have actually worked there speak Chinese.
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by skeeter2020 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @12:58PM (#35790627)
For a company that's done so much tech, and had such a huge impact on the computer industry, there are very few "true blue" IBMers who you can hold up as engineering pioneers. Tehy've always been bog-standard salesmen.
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by dc-programmer on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @07:00PM (#35795329)
They do get innovation points for inventing SQL (over 50 years ago)
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by TigeriusKirk on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @02:01PM (#35791688)
My college roommate has worked for IBM his entire career, over 30 years. He loves it there, obviously, and never seriously considered leaving.
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by mynonameaccount on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @06:59PM (#35795322)
He doesn't need to consider it, IBM will consider it for him
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by raverbashing on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @01:39AM (#35798423)
Let me guess, he enjoys wearing a tie to work
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by red-iron-pine on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @09:43AM (#35802294)
I never realized how much I hate ties until I spent 3+ years working essentially in t-shirts and jeans. Never again, outside of interviews or formal events (weddings, funerals, et al).
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by red-iron-pine on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @09:42AM (#35802273)
> Another anecdote: I've never met a fellow developer that spoke highly of IBM. That includes the folks who used to work there.

Worked with a buncha folks in the NC Research Triangle area, all former IBM. None had good things to say about the engineering culture there. Most did long stays regardless -- it's that kinda of org -- talking like 10+ years, but jumped to other companies like Red Hat (ha!), Clorox, Splunk, and Uni research after the last big shakeup.

Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by Upvoter33 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @11:56AM (#35789560)
I think the true thing is that IBM has ceased to be a leader in Computer Science. They used to be! But they gave that up long ago, and have resorted to various publicity stunts (e.g., remember Jeopardy?). But sure, they may be a leader in materials and semiconductors (though honestly I have no idea, that's not my space).
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by sgt101 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @12:37PM (#35790232)
Watson the IBM product, six months dead,

Forgot that medicine is fraught with regs,

And failed to profit from sick mens loss,

A truth is spoken,

Where hackers gather, that shares can rise and fall.

But IBM has flushed it.

Founder or Dev,

O you who grift or code for a living,

Consider IBM who once thought AI was useful and could replace you.

Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by rerx on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @01:19PM (#35790990)
Lyrics by Chat-GPT?
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by sgt101 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @05:04PM (#35794186)
nahh - poor human generation
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by dlevine on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @12:52PM (#35790516)
ChatGPT wrote the following poem about Watson:

While Watson is a marvel of its time, LLMs emerged with strengths refined. Comparisons drawn, distinctions made, Let us explore this technological parade.

Watson's power, its claim to fame, In parsing data, it made its name. But limitations surfaced as tasks progressed, A new contender, LLMs addressed.

Language models, large and wise, Their prowess grew with a rapid rise. GPT-4 and brethren in tow, Comprehension, generation, their skills did grow.

In context and nuance, LLMs soared, Understanding language, a mighty hoard. With deeper knowledge and subtler hues, The limitations of Watson, they did subdue.

Yet, it's not fair to claim one's worse, For in their time, they both traversed. The landscapes of knowledge, distinct and vast, In different roles, their legacies cast.

While Watson opened the door to AI's might, LLMs built upon it, reaching new heights. A symbiotic dance, technology's tale, A testament to progress, a journey we hail.

Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by jsight on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @01:02PM (#35790713)
People mock them for that Jeopardy thing, but that would have been the perfect first move to offering something like Watson as a service.

They could have built it over time to offer real assistance to knowledge workers with a real revenue stream.

But that would have required vision and foresight.

Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by SoftTalker on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @01:35PM (#35791254)
The problem is that "Watson" wasn't a real thing, it was just a name they gave to any solution they were trying to sell.
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by local_crmdgeon on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @01:12PM (#35790865)
That's exactly what it was for, but it was basically a fraud:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/16/technology/what-happened-...

Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by juve1996 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @01:43PM (#35791386)
They did and it failed miserably.
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by piyh on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @01:42PM (#35791371)
They're cutting edge on quantum computing, can't think of anything more computer science than that.
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by gitfan86 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @01:51PM (#35791529)
So they say. Remember Watson? Whatever came of that? IBM is PR and overpriced IT outsourcing.
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by elorant on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @02:22PM (#35791993)
And what are the real life applications of quantum computing?
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by bawolff on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @03:12PM (#35792644)
There are quite significant applications related to simulating certain quantum processes.

However everyone is still pretty far off from that.

Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by tootie on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @12:24PM (#35789998)
IBM also bet the farm on AI about 10 years ago and belly-flopped. Their Watson AI suite was pretty advanced and they famously beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy, but they didn't get vary far making their tools practical or profitable. And now they've just been crushed by OpenAI. I wonder if the subtext to their announcement is that they're ditching their entire AI department and buying services from OpenAI instead.
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by hammyhavoc on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @01:34PM (#35791230)
This is without even getting into projects under NDA.
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by sidewndr46 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @01:35PM (#35791247)
Sure, those 24 consecutive quarters of revenue decline under Rometty is an obvious indication of cutting edge. Cutting edge research on how to turn investors money into into option traders profits.
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by abakker on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @01:51PM (#35791523)
I'd point out at that Ginni Rometty was a bad CEO, but that doesn't mean that people there didn't do good research. Like, they're pretty unrelated. Research and Development is notoriously hard to commercialize. Over here in HN land, we just say that product market fit is poor or that products didn't get traction, but those are just as akin to R&D as anything.

A better model was that Rometty was not good at choosing what to fund and which bets to make. kinda a failed VC fund.

Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by sidewndr46 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @01:56PM (#35791604)
What good is a R&D performed that can't be commercialized? To me, that is just good research followed by bad development. No one investing in IBM is expecting it to be a public works project.

Lookup the saga of HP's memristor followed by "The Machine" for a similar story.

Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by TedDoesntTalk on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @02:31PM (#35792138)
> What good is a R&D performed that can't be commercialized?

Then I guess we can throw out Xerox Parc's NLS because they never commercialized "windows, hypertext, graphics, video conferencing, the computer mouse, word processing, dynamic file linking, revision control, and a collaborative real-time editor." They were commercialized by others later on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mother_of_All_Demos

We can also throw out most psych, social science, archeology, and history R&D, too.

Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by willcipriano on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @02:58PM (#35792484)
> We can also throw out most psych, social science

Yes.

Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by anthk on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @04:36PM (#35793832)
First at all, they had to be called 'sciences'. They aren't.
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by pinewurst on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @03:44PM (#35793089)
NLS came from SRI not Xerox PARC. NLS was in fact commercialized and sold by Tymshare.
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by smcin on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @05:14PM (#35794304)
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by fallingknife on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @05:52PM (#35794738)
Would love to know what the last major breakthrough in social science / psych R&D was.

Archeology / history, on the other hand, definitely have some pretty awesome finds.

Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by abakker on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @10:41PM (#35797109)
Maybe UBI? I mean, hard to say it's been tested enough, but that feels like an answer to this question.
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by dralley on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @06:44PM (#35795195)
Also 2000 years of Mathematicians talking about Prime Numbers before someone came up with the idea of cryptography using prime numbers.

And the laser, which took a few decades to find an application.

Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by 6510 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @05:47PM (#35794678)
> What good is a R&D performed that can't be commercialized?

It attracts playful wizards. If you get enough of those no amount of zombies can beat them.

Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by pixl97 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @01:53PM (#35791549)
Income and cutting edge technology are at best orthogonal to each other. Now I'm not saying that IBM has cutting edge technology, I'm just saying that a ponzi scheme that profits 24 months in a row is cutting edge under your definition.
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by propogandist on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @08:45AM (#35801731)
her role crashing the company into the ground is completely omitted in her book, which has been popping up on my linkedin feed. Her gender and former title is clearly more important than what she accomplished, much like Marrisa Mayer.
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by LawTalkingGuy on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @02:00PM (#35791665)
You can't hire their research arm.

> regardless of how you feel about consulting

It's a matter of how well they do it. They're not known for creating customer value.

> Are the only companies that make sense the ones

... who don't lay off entire arenas full of people and discuss stupid platitudes like replacing them with AI.

Pretty much. Management's messaging around this was so delusional - "replace with AI" - that it's obviously a stock play from a company desperate to cut losses, not a positive statement from a going concern.

Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by propogandist on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @08:49AM (#35801777)
it is possible to hire the research division, you just have to be a multi-billion dollar enterprise. They do joint research partnerships and outsourcing for large organizations to build out new technology. IBM is not very good at commercializing IP, so the partner takes on that responsibility.
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by agumonkey on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @02:15PM (#35791887)
This is the strange side of IBM. Very muddy and mild "normal" software engineering, and all of a sudden, top 3 (maybe top 1) Quantum Computing research.
Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by acomjean on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @03:22PM (#35792776)
Former IBM Research employee here (At the turn of the last century, and I did database stuff for them, not research). They spent 6 billion dollars a year on research. They had a chip fab in my building (Yorktown NY) which had chemists, physicist, mathematicians... The really seemed to be struggling to try and turn that R&D into profits though.

The hot new thing at IBM was "global services" consulting. Since I left they've sold they're chip business, laptop business and really doubled down on consulting..

Re:IBM to pause hiring in plan to replace 7,800 jobs with AI... by garbagecoder on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @05:13PM (#35794302)
bro, I'm not holding my breath for the next Benoit Mandelbrot to come out of today's IBM. The comment above might have been hyperbolic, sure, but IBM isn't the omnipresent Goliath it once was. Maybe it's for us older folks that the comparison rings more true.