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Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by cleandreams on Monday April 17, 2023 @02:30PM (#35604596)
Once you've trained on the internet and most published books (and more...) what else is there to do? You can't scale up massively anymore.
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by Animats on Monday April 17, 2023 @02:40PM (#35604738)
Right. They've already sucked in most of the good general sources of information. Adding vast amounts of low-quality content probably won't help much and might degrade the quality of the trained model.
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by rvnx on Monday April 17, 2023 @02:40PM (#35604742)
Video content (I don't know why someone flagged Jason for saying such, he is totally right)
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by bheadmaster on Monday April 17, 2023 @02:44PM (#35604785)
Looking at his post history, seems like he was shadowbanned.
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by m4jor on Monday April 17, 2023 @02:34PM (#35604651)
They didn't train it on the entire internet tho, only a small amount (in comparison to entire internet). Still plenty they could do.
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Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by sottol on Monday April 17, 2023 @03:59PM (#35605762)
But what are you mostly "teaching" the LLM then? Mundane everyday stuff? I guess that would make them better at "being average human" but is that what we want? It already seems that prompting the LLM to be above-average ("pretend to be an expert") improves performance.
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by dougmwne on Monday April 17, 2023 @05:43PM (#35607021)
This whole conversation about training set size is bizarre. No one ever asks what’s in the training set. Why would a trillion tokens of mundane gossip improve a LLMs ability to do anything valuable at all?

If a scrape of the general internet, scientific papers and books isn’t enough, a trillion trillion trillion text messages to mom aren’t going to change matters.

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by machdiamonds on Monday April 17, 2023 @02:47PM (#35604818)
Ilya Sutskever (OpenAI Chief Scientist): "Yeah, I would say the data situation is still quite good. There's still lots to go" - https://youtu.be/Yf1o0TQzry8?t=685

There was a rumor that they were going to use Whisper to transcribe YouTube videos and use that for training. Since it's multimodal, incorporating video frames alongside the transcriptions could significantly enhance its performance.

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by neel8986 on Monday April 17, 2023 @03:39PM (#35605493)
And why will google allow them to do that at scale?
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by throwaway5959 on Monday April 17, 2023 @04:59PM (#35606534)
Why would they ask Google for permission?
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by neel8986 on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @01:32PM (#35617102)
Because youtube is owned by google and google can stop download at scale
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by HDThoreaun on Monday April 17, 2023 @05:03PM (#35606572)
Can google stop them? It’s trivial to download YouTube videos
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by unionpivo on Monday April 17, 2023 @05:24PM (#35606801)
It’s trivial to download some YouTube videos.

But I am quite sure that if you start doing it at scale, google will notice.

You could be sneaky, but people in this business talk (since they know another good paying job is just around the corner) so It would likely come out.

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by kvetching on Monday April 17, 2023 @10:04PM (#35609124)
OpenAI can afford to build a scraping network, built with thousands of proxies.
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by unionpivo on Wednesday April 19, 2023 @06:38AM (#35626522)
They can afford to. But will Microsoft risk doing that and massive possible lawsuit from Google.

Google is also owns a lot of it's own backbone, so It would be a lot easier for them to play network games.

And they could even try to be sneaky and try poisoning the data if it comes to that.

And since OpenAI konw that, since they probably have people that used to work at google at some point, they are unlikely to try.

Even less likely if Microsoft would know. MS is probably the only company that has even more layers than Oracle and they would not approve.

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by jpalomaki on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @03:22AM (#35610991)
One way would be to get people to let AI watch as they interact with computer (watch YouTube or perform other tasks). You might even be able to outsource some of the computing to the local system.
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by it_citizen on Monday April 17, 2023 @02:53PM (#35604905)
I am curious how much video-to-text content represent compared to pure text. I have no idea.
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by neel8986 on Monday April 17, 2023 @03:36PM (#35605445)
Youtube. This is where Google have huge advantage having largest collection of user generated video
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by sebzim4500 on Monday April 17, 2023 @05:19PM (#35606723)
Yeah, but it's not like the videos are private. Surely Amazon has the real advantage, given they have a ton of high quality tokens in the form of their kindle library and can make it difficult for OpenAI to read them all.
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by mrtksn on Monday April 17, 2023 @04:27PM (#35606118)
You can transcribe all spoken words everywhere and keep the model up to date? Keep indexing new data from chat messages, news articles, new academic work etc.

The data is not finite.

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by spaceman_2020 on Monday April 17, 2023 @04:36PM (#35606268)
What about all the siloed content kept inside corporate servers? You won't get normal GPT to train on it, of course, but IBM could build a "IBM-bot" that has all the GPT-4 dataset + all of IBM's internal data.

That model might be very well tuned to solve IBM's internal problems.

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by treis on Monday April 17, 2023 @04:58PM (#35606528)
I don't think you can just feed it data. You've got to curate it, feed it to the LLM, and then manually check/further train the output.

I also question that most companies have the volume and quality of data worth training on. It's littered with cancelled projects, old products, and otherwise obsolete data. That's going to make your LLM hallucinate/give wrong answers. Especially for regulated and otherwise legally encumbered industries. Like can you deploy a chat bot that's wrong 1% or 0.1% of the time?

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by spaceman_2020 on Monday April 17, 2023 @05:24PM (#35606809)
Well, IBM has 350k employees. If training a LLM on curated data costs tens of millions of dollars but ends up reducing headcount by 50k, it would be a massive win for any CEO.

You have to understand that all the incentives are perfectly aligned for corporations to put this to work, even spending tens of millions in getting it right.

The first corporate CEO who announces that his company used AI to reduce employee costs while increasing profits is going to get such a fat bonus that everyone will follow along.

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by Vrondi on Monday April 17, 2023 @05:23PM (#35606796)
Since Chat-GPT-4 is being integrated into the MS Office suite, this is an "in" to corporate silos. The MS cloud apps can see inside a great many of those silos.
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by spaceman_2020 on Monday April 17, 2023 @04:35PM (#35606245)
If you were devious enough, you could be listening in on billions of phone conversations and messages and adding that to your data set.

This also makes me doubt that NSA hasn't already cracked this problem. Or that China won't eventually beat current western models since it will likely have way more data collected from its citizenry.

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by PUSH_AX on Monday April 17, 2023 @05:05PM (#35606589)
I wonder what percentage of phone calls would add anything meaningful to models, I imagine that the nature of most phone calls are both highly personal and fairly boring.
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by midland_trucker on Monday April 17, 2023 @05:36PM (#35606934)
That's a fair point. Not at all like training on Wikipedia in which nearly every sentence has novelty to it.

Then again it would give you data on every accent in the country, so the holy grail for modelling human speech.

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by kolinko on Monday April 17, 2023 @04:37PM (#35606279)
You can generate textual examples that teach logic, multi-dimensional understanding and so on. Similar to the ones that are in math books, but in a massive scale.
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by nabnob on Monday April 17, 2023 @05:15PM (#35606689)
Real answer? Buy proprietary data from social media companies, credit card companies, retail companies and train the model on that data.
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by eukara on Monday April 17, 2023 @05:27PM (#35606839)
Can't wait for us to be able to query GPT for peoples credit card info
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by sebzim4500 on Monday April 17, 2023 @05:17PM (#35606709)
I doubt they have trained on 0.1% of the tokens that are 'easily' available (that is, available with licencing deals that are affordable to OpenAI/MSFT).

They might have trained on a lot of the 'high quality' tokens, however.

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by fpgaminer on Monday April 17, 2023 @05:21PM (#35606758)
> Once you've trained on the internet and most published books (and more...) what else is there to do? You can't scale up massively anymore.

Dataset size is not relevant to predicting the loss threshold of LLMs. You can keep pushing loss down by using the same sized dataset, but increasingly larger models.

Or augment the dataset using RLHF, which provides an "infinite" dataset to train LLMs on. Limited by the capabilities of the scoring model which, of course, you can scale the scoring model infinitely so again the limit isn't dataset size but training compute.

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by midland_trucker on Monday April 17, 2023 @05:30PM (#35606866)
> Dataset size is not relevant to predicting the loss threshold of LLMs. You can keep pushing loss down by using the same sized dataset, but increasingly larger models.

Deepmind and others would disagree with you! No-one really knows in actual fact.

[1] https://www.deepmind.com/publications/an-empirical-analysis-...

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by fpgaminer on Monday April 17, 2023 @07:45PM (#35608149)
I don't recall the Chinchilla paper disputing my point. They establish "training-compute optimal" scaling laws, but none of their findings suggest that loss hits any kind of asymptote.
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by midland_trucker on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @07:14AM (#35612438)
Perhaps we're talking past each other, is "loss threshold" a specific term in LLM literature?

Merely pointing out that the debate as to whether we are compute or data limited (OP) has not concluded at all; There are lots of compelling theories on relationship between the two.

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by narrator on Monday April 17, 2023 @07:10PM (#35607850)
You could have it start talking to itself in the way that AlphaGO learns to get better at Go. All that needs to be done is find some fitness function that indicates that useful knowledge has been produced. In Go and Chess this is easy.

It can start posting synthesized ideas on social media and see how many likes it gets. Coupled with a metric containing dissimilarity to current information, this could be a useful way to progress to superhuman insights.

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by lumenwrites on Monday April 17, 2023 @07:39PM (#35608104)
Videos - all of youtube, all the movies, everything that's ever been captured on film. Transcribe the audio, automatically describe the images and try to predict the next one.
Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by ChatGTP on Monday April 17, 2023 @08:26PM (#35608483)
The problem is, movies are completely full of misinformation and inaccuracies.

Maybe if you trained it on movies before CGI existed ?

Re:OpenAI’s CEO Says the Age of Giant AI Models Is Already Over by kvetching on Monday April 17, 2023 @10:02PM (#35609116)
people seem to have forgotten about the multi-modal GPT-4

There's a ton of potential left on the table. The question is if transformers have hit their limit with GPT-4 or not.

It's a pretty simple equation when you think about it this way and why Sam would say they have hit their limit. Sam is basically Microsoft and they want to retain their lead. Once Google learns to put their data to use correctly, it's almost guaranteed game over for OpenAI if they want it to be.