That thought popped into my head as well, but I wonder if the raw salmon you get in sushi is fresher or prepared differently to buying it in a supermarket?

Not really. Farmed salmon and tuna are basically safe, because there are FDA controls around how they have to be frozen before they can be sold, which ensures that parasites die. Other fish are basically down to your risk tolerance.

There's just so much misinformation out there about food safety it's insane. If you understand basic hygiene and aren't immunocompromised, there's really not much need to be so terrified of food.

https://www.seriouseats.com/how-to-prepare-raw-fish-at-home-...

FYI the FDA does not require tuna to be frozen. It is one of the exceptions, just like farmed fish and some mollusks.

Yes, the "raw" fish that you eat without cooking it, is actually first left for a long time in a special freezer that brings it to a very low temperature to kill bacteria and parasites.

To my knowledge, this is not the case for salmon. Whereas wild salmon is not safe to eat raw unless it has been frozen, this should not be necessary for farm-raised salmon of the highest quality.

Yeah, the FDA guidline is that all fish except for tuna must go though the freezing process, unless they are farm raised.

It doesn't have to be a long time if it's a special freezer. You can use a regular deep freezer (non-defrosting) for a longer time. I believe the protocol is something like -30F for 1 day, or -5F for 14 days.

You should probably remove your guess or provide a source. If people are seriously dumb enough to “cook” with a dishwasher, someone is probably going to also take your guess at face value.

Maybe you should provide a source for your guess that my statement is a guess, or remove it. Maybe you could Google first?

What you will find is that there are multiple sources with slightly differing times, even from reputable agencies. What I have stated is actually on the conservative side. Here's one source that is on the faster side.

https://scdhec.gov/food-safety-freezing-parasite-destruction

That's what I call a long time, but yes, it's just a matter of personal perspective.

Also, IIRC they use a brine/vinegar solution to help kill bacteria.

We would just get an entire salmon from the market and make cerviche out of it. There is always a risk with raw food, but it always seems like Americans are very scared of parasites and "natural".

For instance the eggs need to be stored in the fridge because they are dipped in checmicals, the rest of the world is fine without doing that. Same with chlorine in the water, it's not necessary.

Note that ceviche is a different class of "raw" than e.g. sushi, in that the lime juice does kill _some_ (but not all) parasites. According to https://honest-food.net/ceviche-recipe-safety-parasites-2/, fresh farmed salmon is ok to eat raw, while pacific salmon is pretty risky, on the basis of it being susceptible to seal worm. The article mentions a long freeze (at -4F) being an acceptable way to kill off those parasites before consumption.

To get sick once I don't mind, Im more afraid of those parasites the live with you without noticing. But most Salmon in Europe is transported frozen from Norway before being sold. Even though farmed Salmon comes with it's own problems.

> To get sick once I don't mind, Im more afraid of those parasites the live with you without noticing

Take Ivermectin or other parasite killer once or a couple times per year.

> For instance the eggs need to be stored in the fridge because they are dipped in chemicals, the rest of the world is fine without doing that.

It's fairly common in parts of Europe to store eggs in the fridge too, not because they have to be stored in the fridge (like American eggs do), but because it makes them stay fresh longer.

Shelf-life on a literal shelf is like a week or two. Shelf-life in the fridge is months for euro eggs.

Eggs keep for a month in my kitchen, Norway. Not at their best after that time but perfectly safe.

Now try doing the same on the Mediterranean shore.

I've personally kept eggs unrefrigerated in the tropics for more than 30 days. You just have to flip them every couple of days to keep the shell from drying out inside and cracking. These were eggs purchased in Panama before a sailing trip. You can't do this with US eggs though, as others have pointed out, because the shells are cleaned up (from chicken poop) and polished, removing the protective surface in the process.

This is not true : eggs in Europe have an expiration date of 28 days (without fridge) and there’s still a fair safety margin.

My lack of organisation gave me several times the opportunity to try eggs stores eggs longer than that - maybe 50days - and never had a problem. The only outdated egg I can remember (they are easy to notice by smell !) was “fresh”, strait from the shop, probably small cracks in the shell…

* * *

This is based on buying the eggs at the production day though. Usually they sit in the store for a good while.

The BB date is printed on every egg and egg carton. Just subtract 28 days to work out how long it’s been in storage/transit.

Yeah, sure. But the stuff once you get it usually lasts like a week or two, which is my point. If you keep it outside of the fridge that is.

Maybe you’re in a more remote area? The eggs I buy usually have at least 3 weeks before their BB date. Sometimes they’re only 2-3 days old if I’m lucky. I usually try to buy the freshest eggs I can find as they poach better.

In the UK and Europe, the “best before” date printed on eggs is 28 days from when it was laid. This assumes room temperature storage. Refrigeration can extend storage life beyond this date.

Grew up in a country town and free range eggs from the farm/house gate keep for a surprisingly long time - at least a month.

Regardless of the source I always crack it in a mug to give it a sniff first because you never know when you'll get a bad one the slipped through the cracks

American eggs are prepared differently before they are taken to the store, they are polished and they remove the protective residue which then requires refrigeration. That’s why Americans do it.

yeah my point is, its weird you guys do that, while rest of the world is fine without doing that.

I don't live in the US so "you guys" is a bit presumptive, but I'm sure there are plenty of things Americans would find odd about other countries as well.

> the eggs need to be stored in the fridge because they are dipped in checmicals, the rest of the world is fine without doing that

Also one of the main reasons for chlorine-washing eggs is to reduce the instance of salmonella. But the salmonella is only there because the US will not pass regulation requiring farmers to vaccinate hens, as Europe does.

Ceviche isn't raw. It is delicious though.

It seems most developed countries disinfect their public water systems, often using chlorine. I believe the WHO have recommendations for it.

Northern Europe often not.

I would guess that's only if it's from a groundwater source. I would also guess that's the exception rather than the rule.

https://waterandhealth.org/newsletter/new/summer-1998/disinf...

Ceviche is not raw. It is “cooked” with acids.

I'd be a bit worried about parasites if not knowing the providence of a piece of fish going into sushi.

I make my own sushi at home. I get individually quick frozen filets and freeze them below -5F for about 2 weeks. This way I know they've been through the process.

provenance*

Thanks, I really should have known better! (not sarcastic, I like corrections of errors like this)

Raw salmon is one story. Salmon stored in a lukewarm dishwasher for 2-3 hours, neither cold enough to prevent the growth of bacteria nor hot enough to kill them, is a different story. Imagine a piece of sushi left on the shelf all afternoon in the summer in Phoenix, AZ!

Summer in phoenix gets to 120°F. In a car could get to 160°…

Yup, alomost but not quite the proper temperature for cooking salmon, which is around 130°F.

I’d rather eat salmon cooked in a 160 degree car than a dishwasher.

Hard frozen first.

Not necessary, it can be eaten as freshly caught with enough lime and salt. However what's offered in [the US] supermarkets is another story.

Unfortunately, salmon can contain parasites that we are not resistant too.

It is much safer to freeze even fresh caught salmon. If you are eating raw salmon at a commercial establishment, like a sushi restaurant, it was frozen.

Not all salmon species are sashimi-grade.

Pacific and various types of river salmon must be properly cooked or hot smoked. The same is true for farmed salmon from fresh water ponds.

Farmed Atlantic salmon can be eaten raw, marinated, or cold smoked, but is best deep frozen. Wild Atlantic salmon must be deep frozen.

Do you have links to back this up?

How The Desperate Norwegian Salmon Industry Created A Sushi Staple

https://www.npr.org/2015/09/18/441530790/how-the-desperate-n...

> Not all salmon species are sashimi-grade.

You should never eat any fish or flesh cooked that you wouldn't eat raw.

That's my rule also. I'm mostly pescetarian, and don't eat freshwater fish neither raw or cooked. Even some salt-water fish is not recommended to eat raw.

But frequently even fishmongers and chefs themselves don't know the exact spicies of the fish they selling or serving. There is so much of mislabeling in that industry, so it's impossible to know without DNA testing.

I encountered even some celebrity chefs preparing raw dishes from freshwater fish.

Some even doing it to save money, knowing that it may cause liver cancer to their customers.

It's not that eating raw freshwater fish will always lead to the health problems, the fish should be from the endemic region, but it's still a lottery.

Most people in most places don’t have access to fish/meat they can eat totally raw (without any cooking, curing, smoking, etc).

This simply isn't true. Some things are perfectly safe cooked but unsafe when raw. Pork is a good example of this: Folks get parasites from undercooked pork. (I'm sure there are others, I just know this with pork). Cooking meat saves live and helps prevent food-born illnesses.

Heck, this isn't even true with vegetables. Kidney beans need to be properly cooked so they aren't toxic. One kidney bean is enough to cause stomach distress. This is the reason you shouldn't cook raw kidney beans in a slow cooker - they need boiled. Other legumes have this toxin, but in lesser amounts so it isn't as important and as such, safe with most cooking methods.

> Pork is a good example of this: Folks get parasites from undercooked pork

I recall reading that that’s extraordinarily rare these days, no pun intended. It’s often okay to cook pork medium rare (or lower).

I think some areas do better than others - you'll still want to cook it well if you don't know the regulations.

You get similar differences with chickens: Not all areas require salmonella vaccines, and areas that don't have more cases.

Do you want to eat those parasites after they are cooked? That is what I'm trying to say: I don't want to eat food that has bacteria, worms and parasites - even if they are killed by cooking. That is disgusting.

I don't know how many times I've heard people say they need to cook their meat well or need the restaurant to cook it well to kill those parasites. Don't buy meat you don't trust the quality of! Don't go to restaurants where you think the meat has parasites!

Instead of repeating things by habit that they've been told, why can't people stop and think about what they are doing?

Good luck with never-bacteria foods. It's impossible. 100% no parasites chicken/pork is also hard but you can live without them.

> Good luck with never-bacteria foods.

Thank you! I take care of what I eat and haven't had any food-related problems in many years. I'd rather skip a meal, buy something else, or go somewhere else, than buy something I think is infested.

As for pork meat, I prefer mine medium rare. There are regions and countries that have effectively exterminated pork-born parasites since decades, there is virtually no risk at all for getting parasites from pork within these regions. If you live in a region or country where this is not the case, you shouldn't buy pork meat at all. The parasites are still there, even if you kill them buy cooking. Do you want to eat that?

It isn't about trusting the quality, but about knowing what sort things are normal in foods and treating food safely. You simply cannot avoid certain things, but you can do things that cut down or eliminate risks.

And one of those things is to simply not eat raw meat. It isn't about 'trust' but reality. You aren't going to know about the parasites, and the risk is mitigated through cooking. A lot of food-born pathogens are like this.

Put in another light: We pasteurize milk. Despite our best practices, raw milk will always pose a risk of severe food-born illness. The prudent answer isn't to 'find milk you trust' - it is all like this. The prudent answer is to drink pasteurized milk.

Same with meat. Properly cook your meat. Don't eat wild salmon raw if it hasn't been frozen. And so on. You can apply the same stuff to all food - none of it is 100% safe, and you simply won't be able to verify where it all came from. You won't be able to tell by looking or how much you trust the farmer that grew it.

"Not all salmon species are sashimi-grade."

Do you mean the parasite destructor process doesn't work on all species? If so, do you have some info on that?

Some populations have more parasites than other. Sashimi is cut in fine translucent lames in part for easing to spot the parasites (or more precisely to verify the absence of parasites).

But if you're using the freezing method, the parasites will still be there but be dead. Using modern methods, it seems any species of salmon is safe to use for sashimi. Some are just more palatable than others.

If the parasites are visible my understanding is that is not sashimi grade meat and would be smoked or processed in several ways instead. I assume that Japanese would assure to remove any undesirable aspect in the meat before to make the fish and serve it just because would ruin aesthetics. I could be wrong.

Just for aesthetics, maybe in Japan. In the US, there's no standard for sashimi grade fish. So there's no real difference between most fish marked sashimi grade vs most IQF.

At least in the US, sushi grade salmon has to be flash frozen to be considered safe.

Not if it's farm raised. There's a specific FDA exception for farm raised fish.

>Salmon is often eaten raw.

Is cold smoked salmon considered raw or cooked?