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Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by pavlov on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @10:15AM (#35540032)
Intel sold off Xscale (née StrongARM) just before the touchscreen smartphone boom started. Seems like they would have been well positioned to take the lead in this market. Probably Apple would have used an Xscale SOC for the iPhone if Intel had taken it seriously.

Strategic blunder of the century so far?

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by helsinkiandrew on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @10:30AM (#35540341)
Xscale sale was announced 7 months before the iPhone was announced, but presumably way after work had started and Apple had asked Intel for a processor. A truly poor decision.

> There was just one problem: The PC era was about to end. Apple was already working on the iPhone, which would usher in the modern smartphone era. Intel turned down an opportunity to provide the processor for the iPhone, believing that Apple was unlikely to sell enough of them to justify the development costs.

https://www.vox.com/2016/4/20/11463818/intel-iphone-mobile-r...

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by LeifCarrotson on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @10:43AM (#35540570)
> 7 months before the iPhone was announced, but presumably way after work had started and Apple had asked Intel for a processor

You say that as if Intel should have known that the iPhone would be an explosive hit. They probably assumed it would be yet another Blackberry competitor, not really a threat to their desktop hegemony.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by helsinkiandrew on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @11:18AM (#35541218)
They didn't have to know that the iPhone would have been an explosive hit, but they should have seen that Smart Phone/PDA like device sales were increasing at 30-50% a year at that time, and there was a definite feeling that this was the future.

Even if the iPhone wasn't an explosive hit and the smartphone growth didn't explode, 10% of Blackberries market would have meant millions of processors sold to Apple in the first years and any other Blackberry competitor that was interested,

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by marcosdumay on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @12:44PM (#35542590)
> there was a definite feeling that this was the future

Some people thought that, yeah. But not everybody, and not on the same places Intel sold their chips to.

Anyway, Intel sold their foundry exactly because its unitary profit was way too small for them. Since then, the company only got more expensive, so they wouldn't be able to keep it.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by gumby on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @12:44PM (#35542607)
I don't want to defend Intel, but Apple's own announced hope at the time of the iphone introduction was to "eventually reach 1% of the phone market".
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by Nevermark on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @04:09PM (#35546020)
Apple was just reassuring customers and the market, by telling them that their tiny size and newbie market status was an advantage, not a disadvantage.

But they clearly had high ambitions for their new revolutionary ergonomic mobile "phone" + "music player" + "internet". They wanted to define a new indispensable market and they wanted to own it. They already had a multi-year product path and design pipeline for regular major upgrades in place.

The iPhone was intended to be a "next big thing" from the start.

And it seems unlikely Steve was selling Intel on doing a new chip for 1% of the phone market. He was telling Intel this was the future, in some form.

Apple was an objective market demonstration, with no ambiguity, that there was now a need for low-power first (as apposed to speed first) that would got to other suppliers if Intel didn't move.

This was a leadership failure at Intel. They happen.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by hollerith on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @04:13PM (#35546077)
I always thought it was a response to other cell-phone makers integrating music-player functionality into their cell phones, threatening Apple's music-player revenue stream.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by gumby on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @04:40PM (#35546512)
Me too. Ballmer's reaction to the iphone was not obviously stupid at the time, especially given Microsft's business model of direct enterprise sales.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by sumtechguy on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @01:11PM (#35543100)
That at that time would not have been a bad take.

The big telcos were handing out data in miserly amounts and eye bleeding prices (think 50 bucks for 1MB then another 30-50 for SMS). AT&T was willing to pair with an unlimited plan set the iPhone wildly ahead of all the other phones in that category. VZ messed up big on that one. They were touting how amazing their network was meanwhile their competition was letting people surf the net from their phone. VZ was meanwhile still charging silly rates for SMS. Meanwhile I could open a connection on an iPhone and use an online chat service or the unlimited SMS. All of the other phones from that time could do similar things. It was the per month charge that people balked at to do simple internet things. Then on top of that it was apple so it had a bit of cool to go with it. I personally think though without that data plan the thing would have been a dud.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by nordsieck on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @03:15PM (#35545176)
> The big telcos were handing out data in miserly amounts and eye bleeding prices (think 50 bucks for 1MB then another 30-50 for SMS). AT&T was willing to pair with an unlimited plan set the iPhone wildly ahead of all the other phones in that category.

From what I recall, the original iPhone only supported 2G, while contemporary phones supported 3G. I remember a lot of criticism around the iPhone web experience because of that, even though the interface was clearly superior to everyone who used it.

It looks like there were relatively competitive data plans available[1] that offered unlimited data. I'm not really convinced that that was the problem.

---

1. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2007/04/data-plans-the-barri...

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by colejohnson66 on Thursday April 13, 2023 @08:19AM (#35554280)
> From what I recall, the original iPhone only supported 2G, while contemporary phones supported 3G.

Yep. Only EDGE and quad-band GSM ("2G"). The second generation iPhone was called the "iPhone 3G" specifically because it supported tri-band UMTS ("3G") with HSDPA. In fact, some even back-named the first generation iPhone to "iPhone 2G".

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by faeriechangling on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @03:36PM (#35545515)
Think of why the iPhone existed in the first place. It was because Jobs saw the writing on the wall and knew that cell phones were bound to destroy the market for the iPod, Apple's moneymaker. Before making the iPhone, he made the Rokr and Jobs threw massive amounts of resources into the iPhone at large risk to Apple. He bought up the patent for multi touch back in 2005.

I honestly think people overlook this aspect of Jobs leadership, basically from the time he returned on Apple he doubled down on mobile computing repeatedly throwing 50% of Apple's marketing budget into the unproven iPod for instance. Why was Jobs able to see the writing on the wall and not Intel? I think Steve Jobs himself said it best:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4VBqTViEx4

Intel itself was NOT totally blindsided by the mobile revolution. Intel Atom development started in 2004. Intel Atom could have dominated the market. There were Intel Execs pushing Atom. But all the R&D was pumped into the desktop and server business, the quality silicon was reserved for the desktop and server business, Intels execs didn't want these inexpensive chips for what were presumed to be peoples secondary computers to cannibalise its expensive desktop and server chips, and the strategic vision was simply bad. You can apologise for it but the mistake may have doomed the entire business and plenty of companies did not make the same mistake.

One could say "Well Intel's fate was inevitable, they were too entrenched in this traditional business, the shareholders and management would never be able to stomach such a risky shift to a new market" but Intel wouldn't even exist if they didn't already make such a shift away from the memory market into the microprocessor market firing most of the their company in the process. Intel had leaders with strategic vision and guts back in the day, and the senior leadership simply weren't good enough to commit to mobile when that bridge had to be crossed.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by friendzis on Thursday April 13, 2023 @01:37AM (#35551420)
> Intel Atom could have dominated the market

Depends on what you call Atom, but if you mean Atom as it was released then absolutely no, it had exactly zero fighting chance. IIRC first Atoms were Pentium 4 or so fabricated on smaller process and resulting in lower power draw. The only meaningful use for early Atoms was crappy netbooks.

However, it was or could have been an important stepping stone for paving the road towards x86-based low power devices. Remember, it was also a time where linux-on-arm started booming. It could have been an alternative to ARM SoCs, but there were simply too little attractive offerings and Broadcom/Freescale/Ti effectively ate the market

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by temac on Thursday April 13, 2023 @03:14AM (#35552111)
The first atoms were their own kind with design principles more from the P5 than even the PPro. It was slow. I'm unsure if it was slower than contemporary Arm, but for sure it had a way lower IPC than the Pentium 4.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by friendzis on Thursday April 13, 2023 @06:50AM (#35553541)
IMO, ARM won not because it was measurably faster, but rather because there was an ARM based offering all over the spectrum of SoC needs. In the appliance/embedded market Atom was firmly in the high end and yet in pc-ish market Atom was very much low end.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by fps-hero on Thursday April 13, 2023 @01:13PM (#35558753)
I think you’re missing the broader point. The “netbook” form factor was absolutely on to something, but it failed to deliver. The atom processor is what enabled the form factor, and practically set the trajectory for laptops for next 10 years.

Everyone has rose tinted glasses and short memories when it comes to just how far computers have come in the last 15 years. For reference, netbooks predate iPads by 3 years. They came out about the same time as the first iPhone.

The low power long life computing platform has for the longest time been a dream. Netbooks with 4-8 hour battery existed at the same time that a top of the line laptop would get only 3 hours battery life, a normal consumer grade laptop would top out at 1-2 hours, for a 1/4 of the price.

If you squint hard enough, there is no discernible difference between the aspiration of the netbook platform, and a modern chrome book or iPad with a keyboard, but Intel doesn’t make processors for either platform.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by friendzis on Friday April 14, 2023 @04:08AM (#35566817)
> The “netbook” form factor was absolutely on to something, but it failed to deliver.

Completely agree here, I call Atom important stepping stone. However, as you mentioned Intel does not make processors for descendant platforms.

As I have elaborated in different comment, I guess the major reason Atom failed was market positioning. They were effectively eaten by ARMs getting more powerful from one end and mobile CPUs getting more power efficient from the other end.

So while I agree that Atom based netbooks helped start the whole mobile compute market, my argument is that market positioning of Atom products meant that they were destined to be replaced. IMO success of Atom required a bit more useful PC-like devices AND high integrity SoCs for appliances.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by pjmlp on Thursday April 13, 2023 @03:09AM (#35552086)
Yes, but Nokia, Ericson, Sony and Microsoft could have done it, if it wasn't for their mismanagment.

People also overlook the mobile phone market outside US.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by petra on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @11:32AM (#35541456)
ARM is open. So that means they would have to compete with the whole world both on chip design, and fabbing, for a low power chip, with margins lower than what they are used to.

Sucsess(as measured in valuation back than, not today, that's how managers measure themselves), was far from certain.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by vlovich123 on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @12:17PM (#35542157)
Right. Big company disease caused Intel to miss the biggest CPU market and relegated to big metal servers because they got undercut. It’s still a miss for the business and the CEO regardless of how managers/VPs measure themselves. CEOs are supposed to take a longer term strategic view. Since the mobile revolution Intel stock peaked at 2x from before 2007 while Qualcomm has done about 2x better than them. Of course part of that is cellular chips / licensing. But there’s also other CPUs that were competing with Qualcomm. Maybe that’s why Intel didn’t bother to compete (Qualcomm SoC is CPU+cellular if I recall correctly).

It’s still a lesson on the importance of keeping a foothold for the lowest volume market even if you’re not making any money as long as the cost is sustainable - cutting every unprofitable part of the business leaves you for disruption. Same thing happened to Microsoft with smartphones and Google with social.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by mepian on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @12:39PM (#35542526)
>Of course part of that is cellular chips / licensing. But there’s also other CPUs that were competing with Qualcomm. Maybe that’s why Intel didn’t bother to compete (Qualcomm SoC is CPU+cellular if I recall correctly).

Intel had a cellular modem business which they formed in 2011 and sold to Apple in 2019.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by vlovich123 on Thursday April 13, 2023 @09:21AM (#35555032)
4 years after smartphones became a thing. It’s a bit too late and no one really bought their chips in the high end phones.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by ksec on Friday April 14, 2023 @12:30AM (#35565540)
> Intel had a cellular modem business which they formed in 2011

They acquired* from Infineon. And completely messed it up.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by szundi on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @02:47PM (#35544751)
Sadly staying in everything is death by a thousand cuts. It is hard to have all the strategies at once.

Magic is finding out what of those can fly and it is not a manager but a leader quality to do well with new fields. Although sometimes managers feel the obvious moves for the short term sometimes better.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by jacobr1 on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @05:24PM (#35547177)
It is also a lesson for the cost-cutting that is popular right now. Sure, trim fat and waste - but R&D and and test projects in new areas are important for future potential markets. Keep some of that alive even it currently isn't profitable so that you have paths to future markets.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by vlovich123 on Thursday April 13, 2023 @10:33PM (#35564852)
I mean, Blackberry was huge and the market was still rapidly growing with no signs of slowing down. The addressable market was even bigger since even back then lots of people didn’t have cell phones and the majority were still feature phones (but more and more people were ditching landlines instead).

Sure, it can be hard to know when to stay in, but the “death by a thousand cuts” is not a financial problem. These are often rounding errors to continue. It’s a question of focus. And Intel clearly made the mistake of thinking they didn’t need to focus on mobile.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by qwytw on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @01:16PM (#35543198)
> ARM is open

Qualcomm still has a 60-70%+ market share in the $300+ Android phone market and their gross profit margin was similar to Intel until last year so it's obviously doable. And XScale/Intel was probably the best positioned company to dominate the ARM SoC market back in the mid 2000s.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by stefan_ on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @01:32PM (#35543485)
Well they also have success in WiFi & Cellular, ironically two markets that Intel also participated in and never succeeded in doing anything, ever. Truly an astonishingly mismanaged company.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by szundi on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @02:48PM (#35544785)
I feel that when every management book starts do bring up a company as an example, one should just sell the stocks in 2-3 years. Like Intel and its OKRs.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by mdellabitta on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @03:48PM (#35545708)
ARM is not open... You can license the IP.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by midoridensha on Thursday April 13, 2023 @12:20AM (#35550915)
That wasn't the only poor decision-making they were doing while Craig Barrett was CEO at that time. They also doubled down on the Itanic processor, refused to make a 64-bit x86 CPU until AMD forced them to, and were pushing mega-expensive RAMBUS memory with their power-guzzling P4 processor. Nearly everything they were doing was a bad decision. If anything, it's a case study in why engineers should not be CEOs. (Barrett was an engineer; he was replaced by Otellini who was not, and who turned things around for Intel.)
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by baq on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @10:24AM (#35540214)
The biggest mistake of Paul Ottelini for sure. The world would look very, very different if he said yes.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by lr1970 on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @10:46AM (#35540614)
Before becoming Intel's CEO Paul Otellini served as executive VP of sales and marketing. This uber-blunder is a great example what happens when you let a "bean-counter" run a tech company.

EDIT: corrected factual error. Paul was never a CFO but much of his career was in sales and marketing. Sales do count as "bean-counters" because their main metric are counting PaL.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by bushbaba on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @11:24AM (#35541334)
Disagree. The Sales leaders are generally also looking for continued growth 3 years out. Sales know there’s sprints but you are also running a marathon where continued growth YoY is expected. They should have seen the smartphone potential and started chipping away to grow their base long term.

Similar to why the best sales leaders only do deals where there’s renewal possibilities in 2-3 years out.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by svnt on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @11:32AM (#35541450)
I mean you should probably just own the whole mistake — in no world are bean-counters sales people.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/bean-cou...

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by klelatti on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @10:49AM (#35540677)
That's not correct. Otellini did not serve as CFO at any time and did not have a finance background. Please check your facts before making a comment like this.

Edit: I see you've changed your comment without acknowledgment. Still wrong 'sales and marketing' isn't 'bean counting' and Otellini had extensive 'tech' experience.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by lr1970 on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @10:57AM (#35540815)
Thanks for pointing out a factual error. I corrected it and added explicit EDIT paragraph.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by voidfunc on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @10:50AM (#35540693)
Have their been any successful major companies run by former CFOs? My experience here is that it is often a death sentence via a long road or stagnation.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by bee_rider on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @01:50PM (#35543773)
Some of their worst years were under Krzanich, who had an engineering background… I think it is hard to guess who’ll be a good CEO for a tech company. Someone like Lisa Su with a background in engineering but also lots of R&D seems like the best pick. The CEO doesn’t need to do the i-dotting, t-crossing engineering stuff anyway, having a good idea conceptual of what is upcoming and possible is more important.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by TylerE on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @02:52PM (#35544844)
Seems like what you need is a triumvirate... an idea guy (The Jobs), a tech guy (The Wozniak), and a 3rd person who's main job is to keep the first two from killing each other, and ideally a sense for operations and PR.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by mepian on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @05:57PM (#35547580)
Jobs wasn't too bad at tech, he passed Al Alcorn's job interview at Atari after all.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by corford on Thursday April 13, 2023 @07:21AM (#35553773)
Probably "The Eric Schmidt" would be that third person
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by baybal2 on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @10:22AM (#35540163)
Non-touchscreen smartphone boom been going for years prior.

The problem was that embedded OS-es like Symbian, A200, PalmOS were running circles around Windows Mobile. Most of them used Samsung SoCs which were few times slower than StrongARM.

StrongARM was seen exclusively in the context of it being used to "lift" extremely bloated WinMo smartphones, and was otherwise thought as an overkill for other uses.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by DeathArrow on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @10:43AM (#35540555)
But Intel did respond with x86 SoCs for smartphones. Merrifield, Moorefield and Airmont.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by unethical_ban on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @10:48AM (#35540647)
I still have an Asus android tablet with an Intel CPU, circa 2014.

It wasn't that great then and it deserves death now. Zero ability to upgrade or get third party OS on it due to those processors not taking off.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by Sohcahtoa82 on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @01:26PM (#35543383)
And they were plagued with compatibility and performance problems.

Almost bought my niece an Android tablet with an x86 CPU. They were priced super low. Turns out there was a reason for that. Apps ran like shit and any games written using the Android NDK just straight-up didn't work.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by anecdotal1 on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @11:08AM (#35541036)
Intel actually designed a CPU for the iPhone. Apple didn't use it because it failed to meet their performance/thermal requirements. Intel was not happy about this.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by pavlov on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @11:20AM (#35541250)
Was it an x86 core rather than Xscale?
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by sharedbeans on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @01:38PM (#35543566)
Sourcing for this? This is a very under-reported story IMO, the main source we have is self-serving comments from the guy who screwed it up saying “we passed because it wasn’t going to be profitable at the projected volumes”. But I don’t see how Intel would have even been capable of being the sort of partner that mobile SoC development requires.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by anecdotal1 on Sunday April 16, 2023 @02:54PM (#35593142)
Consider this a rumor until I can remember the source.

There was a deep dive article I came across about this a while ago and the only other interesting bits I've never seen anywhere else were tha

- Intel was offering a chip based on core/atom and couldn't hit the required performance/TDP

- apple wanted a custom chip meeting the required specs, but this is where Intel balked due to estimates of low demand to design and fab it

- apple went with ARM and PowerVR GPU was an important part of this story

Sometimes I wish I had a searchable full text index of articles I found interesting but didn't see value in bookmarking

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by bsnnkv on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @02:26PM (#35617855)
> Sometimes I wish I had a searchable full text index of articles I found interesting but didn't see value in bookmarking

I hope you won't mind this reply that isn't related to the topic, but this part of your comment stood out to me.

The way I get around this is by just saving the bits of articles I find interesting for later full-text search, and on the side I make topic-specific feeds of what I'm saving available via RSS for others to subscribe to.[1]

This paradigm shift from saving/bookmarking entire articles to saving highlights has worked really well for me, maybe it could work for you?

[1]: https://notado.app/feeds/jado - I run the service my highlights and feeds are hosted on, but if you're not interested in a subscription service that does this I don't think it's particularly difficult to spin up something yourself over a weekend or two

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by anecdotal1 on Tuesday April 18, 2023 @07:18PM (#35621860)
Thanks for the kind suggestion, I'll look into this
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by omneity on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @01:20PM (#35543272)
To me this seems to be an attempt to leverage their dominant position at the time to further strengthen it, and eventually failing to strong-arm the industry.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by wmf on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @01:26PM (#35543374)
Intel doesn't invest in anything besides x86. They let XScale languish while they owned it and even if the iPhone used XScale, Intel still would have found a reason to under-invest in it.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by oblak on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @04:10PM (#35546043)
It only cost Otellini his cushy job
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by maven29 on Wednesday April 12, 2023 @07:52PM (#35548801)
Blackberry phones peaked in 2009, there was plenty of time to reconsider. This is just blatant revisionism, there were plenty of on-ramp opportunities within the product timeline.

Apple didn't move off Samsung entirely until the A8, and they still rely on many Samsung hardware IPs within the SoC to this day. It was not just a fab arrangement from day 1. https://twitter.com/calebccff/status/1472517091970494465

Apple relied on many of the same suppliers as the rest of the industry for a very long time, except the ones they acquired and closed-off. Purely on a "rising tide lifts all boats basis", Intel would still have had access to the dominant player if the ARM-based touchscreen era wiped out the incumbents. However, this is still a very low-margin business, despite requiring more engineering effort than desktop.

You could argue that $1500 phones were unthinkable at the time, but as a commodity, chipset manufacturers see less than 5-10% percent of that, even on flagship phones.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by samstave on Thursday April 13, 2023 @12:35AM (#35550993)
Heh, I was at Intel in the late 90s when they were internally worried as heck of Transmeta (not in relation to LGBTQ or the company meta :-)

https://www.zdnet.com/article/arm-shares-tumble-as-transmeta...

in 1997 Intel was terrified of Transmeta, and it lit a fire under their ass to get the Celeron out more quickly...

Me and a colleague worked a F-ton to test out not only the Celeron, AGP, SIMD, OpenGL, Unreal Engine, and all the latest games...

But Intel paid the game devs a Million Marketing bucks if they would optimize their games (and general software) to the SIMD instructions, to make the game feel more subjectively responsive on the Celeron as opposed to the AMD, and the seemingly incoming Transmeta.

so I think that Transmeta was the big blunder, but in reverse ; ; Intel should have been all over gaming, and not been afraid of some plucky startup...

But recall all the senior engineers at intel from <1995 had slide rules and pocket protectors.... they didnt see the entertainment wave of computing early enough and made far too many mistakes and tried to catch up.... personally, I think Linux saved Intel from bankruptcy.

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by rjsw on Thursday April 13, 2023 @04:19AM (#35552501)
Transmeta was attractive to embedded HW developers because it had a PCI host controller built in, you didn't need a separate northbridge chip, the speed was less important.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by rjsw on Thursday April 13, 2023 @04:10AM (#35552443)
Xscale didn't have a GPU built into the SoC.
Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by TradingPlaces on Thursday April 13, 2023 @09:34AM (#35555214)
It’s worse than that. Apple had just switched PPC to Intel, and Jobs approached Intel in 2005 to make the iPhone SoC.

From Paul Otellini exit interview in 2013

>"We ended up not winning it or passing on it, depending on how you want to view it. And the world would have been a lot different if we'd done it… The thing you have to remember is that this was before the iPhone was introduced and no one knew what the iPhone would do... At the end of the day, there was a chip that they were interested in that they wanted to pay a certain price for and not a nickel more and that price was below our forecasted cost. I couldn't see it. It wasn't one of these things you can make up on volume. And in hindsight, the forecasted cost was wrong and the volume was 100x what anyone thought.”

The title of the article is "Paul Otellini's Intel: Can the Company That Built the Future Survive It?” and that is still a good question a decade later.

https://archive.is/B0Bbs

Re:Intel and Arm Announce Multigeneration Collaboration on L... by ksec on Friday April 14, 2023 @12:34AM (#35565561)
Well that is Intel’s view. Inside Apple their engineers refuse to use anything Intel and threaten Jobs to quit.