News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by infamouscow on Thursday March 30, 2023 @06:15PM (#35379545)
History will not be kind to those that wanted this.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by throwaway2729 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @06:24PM (#35379635)
How will people that incited a treasonous attack on the Capitol be remembered?
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by brucethemoose2 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:08PM (#35380108)
As patriots, according to the crowded TShirt stand I drove by awhile ago.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by pjkundert on Thursday March 30, 2023 @08:11PM (#35380618)
As the lamest, least armed “overthrowers” of a government ever?

;)

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by xienze on Thursday March 30, 2023 @09:30PM (#35381218)
Yeah kinda funny how the same people who claim the Second Amendment is useless because "you stand no chance against the military" also think the government was >this< close to being overthrown by a bunch of unarmed yokels.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by s5300 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @09:43PM (#35381332)
>> also think the government was >this< close to being overthrown by a bunch of unarmed yokels.

Trying my best to not engage in any pointless discourse in this thread, but there were plenty of highly armed people (quite literally waiting to be called in, staying in nearby hotels - just because they were dumbasses doesn’t mean they weren’t highly armed) as well as the fact they did try to call the military in & it was hindered by maleficence.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by dukeofdoom on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:07AM (#35382430)
The whole protest was infiltrated by Government agents. The shamen guy with horns was literally escorted around inside the building. (video of it on twitter).

It was never a serious attempt at overthrowing a government. This was trap for Trump to walk down with the protestors, which he was almost baited into doing. Had he done it, he would probably be rotting in prison or dead.

This is not to say that the protest did not turn into a riot. But that riot negated Trump's election fraud claims, some of which were never fully flushed out after.

Violence delegitimized anti government protests, and so government agencies will use agent provocateurs to help things along.

Trump is hated more by the former neocon wing of his party than by Democrats. Gladly played interference to spite him.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by s5300 on Friday March 31, 2023 @02:01AM (#35383196)
>> The whole protest was infiltrated by Government agents.

Oh man. One of my buddies who loved to watch Ancient Aliens and Alex Jones has been telling me this for about two decades now.

Saddam Hussein apparently died of diabetes a decade before we planted a body double of him too.

Wonder how much the actors posing as chucklefucks got paid to “stand back & stand by” at those hotels with their pickup truck arsenals.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by dukeofdoom on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:47AM (#35386295)
The government is literally trying to arrest a leading opposition candidate. A tactic deployed in the third world. The neocons that lied about weapons of mass destruction, faced no legal consequences. While Alex Jones is currently fined 1+ Billion dollars. 1 Million people killed in that war.

Kind of hard to reconcile these facts, and not think something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by Izkata on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:13AM (#35385888)
It also seems to have been the first Trump-anything that antifa didn't show up for, which is... odd, given their stated goals.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by xienze on Friday March 31, 2023 @05:25AM (#35384541)
> quite literally waiting to be called in

Why weren't they called in? If it's all to be believed, the operation was succeeding beyond anyone's wildest dreams and then...?

But more to the point -- I guess January 6th proves the Second Amendment is still relevant and important?

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by norwalkbear on Thursday March 30, 2023 @10:41PM (#35381801)
True because they are evil double speaking cowards.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by krapp on Thursday March 30, 2023 @09:39PM (#35381305)
Sedition is a crime even if your cunning plan is unlikely to succeed.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by pessimizer on Thursday March 30, 2023 @11:05PM (#35381985)
Most mobility-scootered, heart-attacks-from-the-excitement coup forces ever.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by yucky on Thursday March 30, 2023 @08:14PM (#35380652)
Anybody that thought it as a good idea to go inside the building is an idiot, but how they'll be remembered will at least partly be tempered by all of the video coming out now showing police waving them into the building and egging them on, the mystery of Ray Epps and the FBI plants leading the charge into the building.

I still think they're mostly harmless idiots, but I'm concerned where the directives came from that had feds mixed in and encouraging what is now being called "an insurrection". Why would they do that? Makes no logical sense.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by seanw444 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @09:26PM (#35381189)
Wise choice to use your throwaway for this take.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by otikik on Thursday March 30, 2023 @09:38PM (#35381298)
Burger Commandos.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by flangola7 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @06:18PM (#35379575)
What do you mean? I want this, why would history be unkind to me?
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by dukeofdoom on Thursday March 30, 2023 @06:25PM (#35379653)
Why would any future president ever want to relinquish power, when a future of prosecution awaits him. Better serve as long as possible in that case, and use the power of government to keep himself in power. Kind of what used to happen before democracy.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by krapp on Thursday March 30, 2023 @06:42PM (#35379858)
>Why would any future president ever want to relinquish power, when a future of prosecution awaits him.

Presidents aren't kings, they can't just "use the power of government" to keep themselves in power indefinitely, and they aren't above the law, in or out of office, despite what some of them might say.

It doesn't matter if they want to relinquish power or not, their power ends when the Constitution says it does and if a president refuses to leave when the clock runs out, the Marines will put a gun to their head and show them the door. Which is as it should be.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by stuckinhell on Thursday March 30, 2023 @11:34PM (#35382188)
I want to agree, but the Constitution is just a piece of paper, what matters is the will of people to accept or deny it.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by flangola7 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @06:41PM (#35379843)
> Why would any future president ever want to relinquish power, when a future of prosecution awaits him.

Because if he doesn't relinquish it the other branches will remove him anyway, as was imminent with Nixon. Trump wasn't convicted by the Senate, but his butt was still kicked out of the White House on Inauguration Day. American democracy isn't fantastic but it's still a long way from the President having absolute control.

"They will double down if we try to punish them." is a hollow argument that could be used to justify not punishing any crime. A pickpocket might try to run or fight back if he knows he will be punished, but that's not a reason to let him do it, it's a reason to have teams of fit people equipped with tazers and handcuffs that can subdue him anyway.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by stuckinhell on Thursday March 30, 2023 @11:36PM (#35382204)
Richard Nixon won the 1972 U.S. presidential election by a large margin. He defeated the Democratic Party nominee, George McGovern, by winning 60.7% of the popular vote and 520 electoral votes out of 537. This was one of the largest landslides in U.S. presidential election history.

It wasn't imminent at all.

If Nixon wanted to end the republic as we know it, he nearly could have. He had a insane mandate by the people.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by generj on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:20PM (#35394497)
He didn’t have an insane mandate of Congress, which decidedly was going to impeach him.

It took some time and solid investigation but his party wholesale rejected him and made it clear he had no political future. Nixon was could either resign or be humiliatingly fired.

We no longer have a Congress which values country over party. There’s a good chance Trump could have murdered someone on 5th Avenue and he still would not have been impeached.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by flangola7 on Monday April 03, 2023 @12:17AM (#35418504)
That's an F grade in any high school history class. Nixon's own party made it clear they were going to remove him if he didn't resign. You can't deny undisputed historical facts.

It's also safely assumed that a full 60% of the public would not have voted for him if they knew he was going to betray his duty.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by singleshot_ on Thursday March 30, 2023 @06:51PM (#35379948)
“The law” would seem to be a reasonably succinct and correct answer to this question.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by nobodyandproud on Thursday March 30, 2023 @06:56PM (#35380009)
> Why would any future president ever want to relinquish power, when a future of prosecution awaits him.

Because the message here is that they will be criminally charged, if they don’t honor the election and the peaceful transfer of power.

It’s scary that we have to set this precedent, but it’d be scarier if we don’t.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by mercyandgrace on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:55PM (#35380513)
> Because the message here is that they will be criminally charged, if they don’t honor the election and the peaceful transfer of power.

With something completely unrelated? That's a concerning viewpoint.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by mcphage on Thursday March 30, 2023 @09:24PM (#35381180)
> With something completely unrelated? That's a concerning viewpoint.

I guess it would be concerning if you commit so many crimes that nobody knew which one you'd actually be charged with first.

Me, I just try to not do that.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by BuyMyBitcoins on Thursday March 30, 2023 @09:52PM (#35381389)
>”Me, I just try to not do that.”

A well meaning sentiment but we all break the law on a daily basis. The amount of laws in the US Code is staggering and if a motivated DA wants to charge someone of a crime, they’ll find a way. Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent by Harvey Silvergate is a perfect primer on this subject.

From what I understand, this indictment is about accounting and how a payment was classified. Not that the payment itself was illegal, or that it was some bombshell. Some argue it was a legal expense, some argue it should have been a campaign expenditure. It could go either way.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by mcphage on Friday March 31, 2023 @07:45AM (#35385578)
> A well meaning sentiment but we all break the law on a daily basis.

> Some argue it was a legal expense, some argue it should have been a campaign expenditure.

Whomst among us has never bought the silence of a porn star using political campaign funds?

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by nickthegreek on Thursday March 30, 2023 @09:35PM (#35381271)
We will see where Georgia lands in regards to this specific crime.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by midoridensha on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:44AM (#35382688)
Seems like it's normal for the US. Just look at Al Capone: murdered who knows how many people, ran an organized crime syndicate, but was finally taken down not for any of those crimes, but because he lied on his taxes.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by norwalkbear on Thursday March 30, 2023 @10:40PM (#35381794)
Huh that's not the precedent it sets at all, it asks presidents to become Caesar or risk Annihilation
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by dredmorbius on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:39AM (#35382653)
* * *
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by pessimizer on Thursday March 30, 2023 @10:51PM (#35381875)
That's not how power works. When a person has the power to declare themselves dictator, they don't then arrest themselves for dishonoring the election.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by nobodyandproud on Thursday March 30, 2023 @11:24PM (#35382111)
In a republic, power is granted.

Declaring one’s self a dictator doesn’t grant power. That’s not how power works at all.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by stuckinhell on Thursday March 30, 2023 @11:33PM (#35382179)
No one in power believes this. As a manager I can tell you are an IC and not a manager, director or anything close.

Even CEO's and board members don't.

The only reason they don't fight to the death is because they believe they can get a normal life afterwards. This just selects for psychopath candidates willing to cross every line to fight and keep power.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by nobodyandproud on Thursday March 30, 2023 @11:57PM (#35382363)
How many do you manage?

As a manager who keeps ending up with more people, asked to take on more, and would love to get back to IC; you sound like a manager I would never want to work for.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by stuckinhell on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:04AM (#35382409)
I manage 100 people and work closely with all the executives.

You don't like it because you don't understand how upper management thinks, that's why you want to go back to being an IC.

You have to understand upper management to protect your teams.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by nobodyandproud on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:08AM (#35382435)
You directly manage 100 people? Or do you mean you have direct reports who in turn manage as well?
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by stuckinhell on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:11AM (#35382454)
Ok so you aren't that high up at all, No one manages 100 people directly, but I do manage them.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by nobodyandproud on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:38AM (#35382641)
So your business doesn’t have rules and contracts? If the board of directors fires the CEO—quite rare—do you think they have any legal grounds to perpetually stay?

Do you think the business would be in good standing if the CEO violently tried to stay, after a legal vote of no confidence?

There’s a reason why CEOs and business leaders don’t really make it to the Presidency.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by stuckinhell on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:32AM (#35386106)
What are you talking about Business leaders have made it to the presidency multiple times.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by nobodyandproud on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:50PM (#35389796)
Name them. It’s not zero, I’ll agree there.

https://time.com/4547837/donald-trump-business-presidents/ in case you get stuck.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by mjmsmith on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:18PM (#35380200)
Why would a future president think there are any limits whatsoever on his actions, when a future of prosecution will never await him? Kind of what happened on Jan 6.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by pessimizer on Thursday March 30, 2023 @10:55PM (#35381907)
It's the continuation of the unitary executive of the Bush Doctrine that has allowed Presidents to act with impunity, along with the blank checks that Congress writes them in order to avoid responsibility. Mislabeling payoffs to prostitutes is a triviality.

> Kind of what happened on Jan 6.

A riot by angry admirers of the last President when they overran the White House with only token resistance? You prevent that by arresting him?

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by mjmsmith on Thursday March 30, 2023 @11:07PM (#35381997)
You prevent it by not electing someone so obviously unfit for office. Failing that, you discourage it by not giving him reason to believe that he's untouchable. (Sadly, his ragtag army of goons had to learn the hard way.)
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by cmurf on Thursday March 30, 2023 @08:28PM (#35380758)
Uhh the guy in this indictment is the president who didn't want to relinquish power before he was charged with crimes. He obviously didn't need to be charged before attempting treason and autocracy.
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by ouid on Thursday March 30, 2023 @09:31PM (#35381222)
Well, in this philosophy, there's only one real thing that you should punish presidents for, and that's trying to use their power to keep themselves in power.

But Trump did that, so he is exactly the man we should be making an example of.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by jen20 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @09:37PM (#35381286)
"as long as possible" is two terms, in the US, no?
Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by infamouscow on Thursday March 30, 2023 @09:31PM (#35381229)
There will be significant legal and political ramifications from this.

Don't get me wrong, I think every POTUS in recent memory should be locked up for war crimes, but this sets a precedent where DAs all over the country are going to go after living presidents for irrelevant nonsense.

Re:Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump by cocacola1 on Friday March 31, 2023 @01:31AM (#35382998)
Not particularly uncharted. Eugene Debs literally ran from prison.