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Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by radiator on Sunday January 22, 2023 @05:51AM (#34476132)
Such a long article, repeatedly praising the "simplicity" of the metric system, and it still ignores all possible opposing views. Not a word about the superiority of the duodecimal system when dividing quantities, even though a couple of examples are quoted (12 inches is a foot, 12 pence to the shilling). No effort to explain whyever someone would approach the matter in this way. The author is either extremely biased or extremely ignorant.
Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by irdc on Sunday January 22, 2023 @05:55AM (#34476150)
Quick, how many inches are in a yard?
Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by bliteben on Sunday January 22, 2023 @07:59AM (#34476922)
How many seconds are in a minute? How many hours are in a day?
Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by dontlaugh on Sunday January 22, 2023 @08:14AM (#34477037)
Minutes and hours are not SI.
Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by satiric on Sunday January 22, 2023 @01:20PM (#34480432)
As an American, the only time I use yards is with football fields. When am I going to use inches in that context?

It's not a simple conversion because it's not a common conversion. It's like converting between inches and meters. The imperial system is multiple systems smashed together, and it's optimized for the more common conversions.

Not saying it's a perfect system, or that metric isn't better, but it's absolutely useable. I'd much rather stick with imperial than half-ass a conversion to metric and be stuck between the two systems, like what's happened in Canada and the UK.

Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by Fatnino on Monday January 23, 2023 @01:44AM (#34486192)
Quick, how many mm in a dm?
Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by defrost on Monday January 23, 2023 @01:51AM (#34486218)
Trivial, but . . .

who actually seriously uses decimeter on a weekly basis and what for?

I've used metric for 50+ years and I'm in the field of sensors and measurement with application from remote sensing to minerals and energy .. and I've yet to use a decimeter unit (outside of a programming exercise).

The convential usage is pico, nano, milli, centi, and full metre (and upwards to kilo, etc).

Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by Fatnino on Monday January 23, 2023 @06:50AM (#34487756)
I know. But it's also a little weird because a foot is a very human size but metric in common usage just skips over that size range.
Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by defrost on Monday January 23, 2023 @07:05AM (#34487859)
A metre is very human sized also .. you can easily hold your hands a metre apart (it's ~3.3 feet (~3.28 if being picky)), about the same as a yard.

I mean, who uses feet anymore anyway?

I've just measured up a whole bunch of stuff making a parrot proof covering for a pear tree .. everything is jotted on the back side of a bit of board in mm (millimeters).

3230 mm is 3.2 metres and a bit .. a bit under 10 & a half feet (but, again, who even uses feet or thinks in them anyway? *)

* We do use yards for conveying to USAians what distance we shoot targets at on the farm; (eg from the next door neighbours youtube channel [1] 5023 yards 24" x 24" target ULR shooting)

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7owwTz7Z0OE

Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by Fatnino on Monday January 23, 2023 @03:56PM (#34494923)
Look, I'm pro doing things in metric. I think the US should get in line with the rest of the planet.

But doing things at yard scale in mm is not helping the cause. Who wants to be throwing around 4 digit numbers in their head?

Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by defrost on Monday January 23, 2023 @06:17PM (#34496501)
Carpenters, woodworkers, metalworkers, electricians, etc. who work at a 10 to 50 foot (for the central north americans that like that kind of retrograde unit) scale AND who want a good fit ...

Millimeter fit on cabinets is the fit you want, whether you work in metric, British Imperial, or US Common.

When you have a long kitchen counter you're looking at 3 metres or more ( ~10 ft ) with framing and doors that join with barely the width a fingernail between.

The measurements are 10 foot (two digits), 6 inches, (another digit) and then a bit (tenths or hundredths of an inch, or a fraction - depending which you prefer).

That's ~ 4 digits for each measurement on a common household task.

It's pretty simple doing this as 3245mm on paper .. tradies have been doing this here since the 1970s and nothing's fallen down yet.

Dunno about you, I'm primarily a mathematican doing applied work - but I've worked as a TA (trades assistent) in electrical, gas fitting, plumbing, heavy mechanical, rigging (multi sling heavy lifting), welding, etc. (too much exposure to minesites and cattle stations I guess) and there's an entire class of people that are comfortable working with measurements that span the length of a truck and are accurate to the millimetre (or tenth of an inch) - so, four digits? No worries.

Why do you struggle with that?

Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by Fatnino on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @11:54PM (#34527809)
I think we're solving different problems here.

You are doing precision work while I'm picturing loosy goosy mental estimations.

Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by somat on Monday January 23, 2023 @09:03AM (#34488805)
I have never thought about it but you are right it is not used.

Now I am curious as to why not. is it just in that spot where no one really needs a measurement? in the US we went the other way, the yard(the long human scale measurement) is almost never used and the foot(the short human scale measurement is much more common.while in metric land the meter(the yard equivalent) is much more common and the decimeter(the foot equivalent) is never used.

Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by abricot on Monday January 23, 2023 @01:46AM (#34486199)
100 mm
Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by Fatnino on Monday January 23, 2023 @06:52AM (#34487772)
I too have 36 inches to a yard available at a moments notice. Also 39 to a meter.
Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by spoils19 on Sunday January 22, 2023 @07:03AM (#34476538)
This is a great article describing the superiority of our system versus the socialist metric system.

https://www.foxnews.com/transcript/can-the-us-continue-to-st...

> It's not great for measuring things in the real world. There's a reason why our measurement system is twelves, eights and sixties. It comes from ancient knowledge, ancient wisdom from the Romans, 12; from the Babylonians, 60. Why?

Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by wirrbel on Sunday January 22, 2023 @07:33AM (#34476747)
Romans thought in base 10 (X,C,M) a bit strange to refer to them.

But I would happily adopt a base 12 number system with base 12 units. Let’s say we use X for 10 and Ǝ for 11, 134 would be 1Ǝ, 24 hour clock a 20 (base 12) hour clock

Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by euroderf on Sunday January 22, 2023 @09:29AM (#34477685)
As a new father, I have toyed with the idea of raising my child with base 16.
Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by wirrbel on Sunday January 22, 2023 @10:48AM (#34478483)
throughout my life I planned on teaching my kid(s) this one created word for the state of being not-thirsty. So in German, there is 'satt' which means 'not hungry', but for thirst, there is no corresponding word and its one of these urban memes that the corresponding word for not-thirsty would be 'sitt'.

Now that I have a kid, my kid has not learned the word 'sitt'. :-)

Anyway, I wouldn't have made the news as this dad did: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1229808/Linguist-re...

Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by randomcarbloke on Sunday January 22, 2023 @11:04AM (#34478671)
What's wrong with quenched or sated?
Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by wirrbel on Monday January 23, 2023 @01:29AM (#34486119)
Does not exist as such in German.
Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by irdc on Sunday January 22, 2023 @07:14AM (#34476605)
Ah yes, the global conspiracy to get people to...checks notes...occasionally use a pocket calculator. Very socialist indeed.

A system merely suitable for the human scale will never enable you to reach beyond.

Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by bliteben on Sunday January 22, 2023 @08:04AM (#34476961)
Fractions are good for your brain and inherently more accurate.
Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by wirrbel on Sunday January 22, 2023 @10:57AM (#34478590)
A decimal value is just a form of approximate, decimal fractions.

Also fractions of metric values should be even better for the brain, if stuff does not cancel out as easily. so if you want to make the argument that not using a calculator is inherently better, its even better to not use a calculator using the metric system.

Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by somat on Sunday January 22, 2023 @07:17AM (#34476625)
It does not bother me, it turns out that having an inconsistent measuring system is not actually that bad. and metric, it turns out has no more purity in it's base units than any other system.

Take the meter, the group setting up the metric system was searching hard for something that was close in size to a yard so they choose 1/10_000_000 the distance from the pole to the equator. nothing wrong with that, but it is not really better than any other arbitrary unit, and with the better defined ways to calculate it(now defined as 1/299792458 of a light second), just as random.

Or celsius, base it on 100 units between the freezing and boiling points of water, not a terrible thing to use, however with the later discovery of absolute zero, they needed a scale that used that, but did not try to redefine the measurement system to include absolute zero, so now you now have this really awkward 273.15... degree difference between the two scales, the nice scale that starts at zero has no other auspicious points to calibrate it at, and the scale with nice points does not start at zero. they could have made their new scale 100 degrees between zero and the freezing point of water, but that would have re jiggered every other derived unit, so understandable that they did not.

Personally I think an si system set up around base twelve would kick ass, what would make it even better would be to replace our base ten number system with a base twelve one, 10 is kind of a poor number in terms of fractions possible. 2 is fine but nobody wants to use 5, things just get awkward when you use 5. nether one is ever going to happen but it is fun to think about our assumptions when it comes to counting and measurement.

Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by perilunar on Sunday January 22, 2023 @11:19AM (#34478874)
> metric, it turns out has no more purity in it's base units than any other system.

The base units are still somewhat arbitrary, in that they are based on this planet: the meter is related to the gradian and the circumference of the Earth. Celsius is based on the freezing and boiling point of water in our atmosphere. Mass is based on a specific volume water.

If we were to set up a system now we could base it on fundamental physical constants (e.g planck or atomic units). But then we would have the same problem that the US currently has: endless arguments about how the old system is so much more 'natural' and convenient than the new one. The fact is that the rest of the world has gone metric, and the US will too, eventually.

But SI has 2 things that the Imperial and US Customary systems do not have:

1. It is coherent: the base units and the derived units relate to each other simply without arbitrary conversion factors. With Imperial and US units you can't even convert between length, area, and volume without them.

2. It is based on powers of 10. There is only one unit for each quantity, and a single system of common multipliers.

> Personally I think an si system set up around base twelve would kick ass

If we had 12 fingers and used base 12 in everyday life, then a measurement system based on multiples of 12 would be awesome. Base 12 is much better than base 10. But we don't.

Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by Fatnino on Monday January 23, 2023 @01:43AM (#34486182)
Step 1: get humans to evolve an extra thumb on each hand

Step 2: ???

Step 3: profit

Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by somat on Monday January 23, 2023 @08:53AM (#34488701)
if you have to count on your fingers just use your thumb to mark each finger bone.

4 fingers 3 bones each, there is twelve right there. now use your other hand the same way as the 10's(12 in base 10) digit. now you can count to 100(144 in base 10) on your fingers. see, much better than base a

Babylonian sheepherders did something similar but 12 on one hand and 5 on the other to end up with 60, which is why you see twelve and 60 show up in time measurement.

Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by wirrbel on Sunday January 22, 2023 @07:18AM (#34476634)
How many ounces are in a pound?
Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by tzs on Sunday January 22, 2023 @09:29AM (#34477683)
That's not so much an argument for using metric units as it is an argument for fixing naming in the Imperial system.

What makes Imperial units harder to remember than metric units is not that they are related by factors of 2^n 3^m instead of factors of 10^n. It is that the names of different units of the same kind are not predictable based on their ratios.

If you had a system with the same relationships as Imperial, but say all the weight units were of the form <prefix>pound, where <prefix> indicates the multiplier or divider to go from pounds to that derived unit, and the same prefixes were used also used with length units so lengths were all <prefix>yard, Imperial units would be a lot easier than they are now.

The metric vs Imperial debate would then simply be whether factors of 10^n are better or worse than factors of 2^n 3^m.

Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by wirrbel on Sunday January 22, 2023 @10:54AM (#34478557)
> If you had a system with the same relationships as Imperial, but say all the weight units were of the form <prefix>pound, where <prefix> indicates the multiplier or divider to go from pounds to that derived unit, and the same prefixes were used also used with length units so lengths were all <prefix>yard, Imperial units would be a lot easier than they are now. > The metric vs Imperial debate would then simply be whether factors of 10^n are better or worse than factors of 2^n 3^m.

I find the idea interesting, but it isn't about imperial vs metric, but about a base-(2^n) fantasy metric system vs metric. There is an appeal but of course it will never happen, neither will the imperial-unit world migrate to that nor will the metric world.

Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by brg on Monday January 23, 2023 @01:22AM (#34486089)
A pints a pound the world around.
Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by albertopv on Sunday January 22, 2023 @08:35AM (#34477208)
Taken as a whole SI units are really what makes the difference
Re:230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metr... by downvotetruth on Sunday January 22, 2023 @08:57PM (#34484527)
Sexagesimal could map to Alphanumeric dropping C,O,S,V,W,X,Z and adding ~!@$%&? and optionally 1 for #