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Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by hartator on Friday October 28, 2022 @02:25PM (#33375322)
With a strong vision for freedom of speech and actual value enforcement (edit: of the transparency value, not just start censoring the other side), it would attract the right people. We can argue the recent dilution of Twitter's values to meddle with U.S. politics was the actual brain drain.
Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by halfmatthalfcat on Friday October 28, 2022 @02:28PM (#33375375)
I think the Venn Diagram of free speech absolutists and competent developers is a lot smaller than Elon and most people realize.

Twitter has never been nor propertied itself to be a bastion of free speech, so I always find this pearl-clutching at "meddling in X" funny. It's a private company, it can do as it please.

Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by tunesmith on Friday October 28, 2022 @02:38PM (#33375567)
I think there are hardly any free speech absolutists these days. Who's standing up for free speech when it's free speech they detest? Instead it's a bunch of people loudly defending their free speech.
Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by amadeuspagel on Friday October 28, 2022 @02:32PM (#33375452)
> Twitter has never been nor propertied itself to be a bastion of free speech

"We are the free speech wing of the free speech party"[1]

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/mar/22/twitter-tony-w...

Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by dontknowwhyihn on Friday October 28, 2022 @02:43PM (#33375640)
“Free speech absolutists” is just a propaganda term for “People who say things I don’t like.”
Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by candiddevmike on Friday October 28, 2022 @02:28PM (#33375368)
I don't understand how those two things (freedom and enforcement) are compatible with each other.
Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by lovich on Friday October 28, 2022 @02:32PM (#33375451)
They’re not, they come in opposition to each other so the more you value one aspect the weaker the other becomes.

I don’t know how people who describe themselves as free speech absolutists and claim no one will be censored are even given the time of day when they simultaneously discuss enforcement policies.

We already have and had multiple sites for absolute free speech short of actual government intervention on the internet. They are either small(the various chans) or go out of business(voat and the like) because no advertiser wants to associate with the content that is created, and free speech absolutists only appear to value free speech as long as someone else is covering the costs for propagating said speech.

Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by 5560675260 on Friday October 28, 2022 @03:08PM (#33376090)
> people who describe themselves as free speech absolutists

Are there actually people like that? Whenever I see this phrase it's used to vaguely describe some group that's obviously in the wrong.

Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by lovich on Friday October 28, 2022 @03:56PM (#33376903)
Musk specifically has described himself as one several times. On a less public note, I run into people online describing themselves as such fairly frequently as well
Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by hexator on Friday October 28, 2022 @02:27PM (#33375351)
Twitter's problems began way before the 2016 election.
Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by vibrio on Friday October 28, 2022 @02:27PM (#33375362)
what is actual value enforcement?
Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by scarface74 on Friday October 28, 2022 @02:30PM (#33375425)
There are a few reasons technical people go to work.

1. Interesting challenges

2. Exchange labor for money

3. Good working environment

4. As a nice to bullet point on their resume

It would be a very naive thing to work for a for profit company owned by a billionaire to think that you have any other “mission” than to line the pockets of a reluctant owner.

Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by vanviegen on Friday October 28, 2022 @03:01PM (#33375942)
No, I don't subscribe to your cynicism. This is actually a reason some people choose a certain job:

5. For the greater good

Whether you think the 'reluctant billionaire owner' is in it for the greater good as well is not relevant.

Now, with regard to Twitter, I have little notion of what 'for the greater good' means. But I'm sure some people do.

Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by scarface74 on Friday October 28, 2022 @03:37PM (#33376594)
It’s not cynical. Do you actually believe any for profit company cares about “ideals”?
Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by wewtyflakes on Friday October 28, 2022 @03:53PM (#33376846)
Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by scarface74 on Friday October 28, 2022 @04:42PM (#33377663)
And most people who “believe in their company’s mission” aren’t working for one. Mostly it’s naive employees with statistically worthless “equity” in a startup who believed the founders Ted Talk hype.

Even if the founder sincerely believes that, once he takes VC money it doesn’t matter what he believes.

Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by vanviegen on Monday October 31, 2022 @05:47AM (#33403685)
Companies don't care. (Some) people working for those companies may, though.
Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by phailhaus on Friday October 28, 2022 @02:28PM (#33375376)
Given that it turned out that Twitter was already biased towards right-wing sources, I don't understand how any of this will help. [1]

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/22/twitter-a...

Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by christkv on Friday October 28, 2022 @02:39PM (#33375585)
Said Twitter about itself when it was under fire for being left leaning lol
Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by NDizzle on Friday October 28, 2022 @02:36PM (#33375515)
What? They ban most actual right-wing sources. What's left is crap like Fox news.

They can't be biased towards stuff they ban. They are biased towards controlled opposition, which makes people feel warm and fuzzy. Big difference.

Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by phailhaus on Friday October 28, 2022 @02:38PM (#33375550)
Read the article, can't argue with numbers. Twitter biases towards recommending right-wing sources. Your personal experience will differ because everyone is placed in their own echo chamber.
Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by NDizzle on Friday October 28, 2022 @02:48PM (#33375733)
Sure I can.

All the right-wing sources I followed on twitter were banned. Therefore I didn't get ANY content sent to me.

How is that a bias FOR right-wing sources?

Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by phailhaus on Friday October 28, 2022 @02:55PM (#33375827)
This is how, straight from the article:

> According to a 27-page research document, Twitter found a “statistically significant difference favouring the political right wing” in all the countries except Germany. Under the research, a value of 0% meant tweets reached the same number of users on the algorithm-tailored timeline as on its chronological counterpart, whereas a value of 100% meant tweets achieved double the reach.

There are crazy left-wing sources that are also banned, are you going to use that as "proof" that Twitter is biased against the left? You're cherrypicking.

Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by NDizzle on Friday October 28, 2022 @04:06PM (#33377089)
Can you list left wing sources that are banned from twitter? I'm struggling here. The KKK, maybe?
Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by pmoriarty on Friday October 28, 2022 @02:54PM (#33375820)
"They ban most actual right-wing sources. What's left is crap like Fox news."

What do you consider an "actual right-wing source" if not Fox News?

Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by NDizzle on Friday October 28, 2022 @04:04PM (#33377050)
Alex Jones. Gavin McInnis. James O'Keefe. Breitbart, which is banned 2/3rds of the time.

Fox News is for your 65+ year old uncle. It's harmless, controlled opposition. Look at the Jan 6th coverage. It exists for the left to point at and say, "see, there it is! Right wing bias!" - for one example.

Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by pmoriarty on Friday October 28, 2022 @04:14PM (#33377219)
I'm surprised you didn't mention the KKK or Stormfront.

It'll be interesting to see if Twitter gives them a megaphone too.

Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by norwalkbear on Friday October 28, 2022 @03:40PM (#33376649)
Get outside your filter bubble
Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by Sohcahtoa82 on Friday October 28, 2022 @05:41PM (#33378295)
Right?

If their "reporting" was so egregious that they got banned, I'd question how accurate their "news" was.

Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by mrguyorama on Friday October 28, 2022 @03:54PM (#33376862)
If you think the most popular singular news source, with all it's own personalities, funding, controlling executives, and consistent for decades opinions is "controlled opposition", I just don't know what to tell you anymore.

Maybe you're just wrong?

Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by unethical_ban on Friday October 28, 2022 @02:35PM (#33375505)
I propose a new term for the "Free speech" to say whatever hateful, bad-faith, trolling and ignorant thing anyone wants to say on someone else's website: "Platform entitlement".

>With a strong vision for platform entitlement and actual value enforcement, it would attract the right people. We can argue the recent dilution of Twitter's values to meddle with U.S. politics was the actual brain drain.

After all, the ideological concept of "free speech" as is commonly used in the United States and regarding political freedom is the freedom from government persecution to say whatever you want. It is being transformed by propagandists and those who would see our democracy crumble to mean "being allowed to freeload off of dominant viral message boards to spread whatever misinformation is deemed beneficial to my worldview".

I respect the idea that the Internet is a prerequisite to effective political speech in the Western world for audiences larger than a small town. I believe that certain layers of the World Wide Web, namely DNS/TLS/Network/Hosting do have a "common carrier" obligation to some extent which should possibly be codified.

I do, however, take issue with the idea that individual websites currently have any obligation to be "neutral", though I do believe in being transparent in any potential bias. I also believe it's misleading to call taking down trolls and bad faith bots as "biased".

To be straight to the point, I honestly doubt the motive of anyone who actively criticizes about free speech issues on twitter, given the kinds of democracy-destroying people who have been largely affected by their moderation policies.

Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by triceratops on Friday October 28, 2022 @03:35PM (#33376568)
Never have I ever agreed so much with a comment.
Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by vehemenz on Friday October 28, 2022 @04:08PM (#33377127)
Very well put. It should go both ways, and the perception that the platform is fair to each respective stakeholder need not be symmetrical. It should be possible that one political demographic is "deplatformed" more, based purely on their promotion of values that are antisocial and immoral in a community setting. Fairness cannot be determined on a demographic basis alone.
Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by three_seagrass on Friday October 28, 2022 @02:30PM (#33375409)
>With a strong vision for freedom of speech and actual value enforcement, it would attract the right people.

The social media company called Gab is the antithesis to that statement:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/03/rookie-coding-mistak...

Re:Elon Musk owns Twitter: The story so far by Bubble_Pop_22 on Friday October 28, 2022 @02:34PM (#33375479)
Social media are free because they act as a lubricant for commerce, especially e-commerce, via advertising. The whole freedom of speech thing, the public square, section 230 they are a bunch of distractions.

At the end of the day you gotta do what media entrepreneurs have always done: shove stuff down people's throats in exchange for money.

Twitter has been trying to monetize its users but they had scarce success.

With an ideologue at the helm the bird will fly right into the ground. Twitter needed somebody who knows how attract the crowd which buys stuff online. Paradoxically Bezos was the right fit for the bird app.