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Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by whyoh on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @01:51PM (#32915289)
Still can't choose to "never combine" taskbar buttons, like in previous Windows versions. That's a major usability flaw.
Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by sorwin on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:30PM (#32915919)
This is the only major issue holding me back from upgrading. When you run 3-5 visual studios, couple of RDP connections, etc, having those windows in the taskbar is a big productivity booster.

I had to rollback simply because after a while, it felt slow and hard to manage multiple windows...

Who knew people like to run the same app more than once :|

Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by belltaco on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:32PM (#32915930)
I use StartAllBack for this, well for the $5 and has a free trial.
Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by wilsonnb3 on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:38PM (#32916028)
> having those windows in the taskbar is a big productivity booster

I sympathize with people that feel like this makes a big difference in productivity but you would have to be swapping between windows an absurd amount of times in a day for this to make an actual difference in productivity.

It takes (rough estimate) about an extra 200ms to hover the task bar icon and select the window you want.

So you lose a minute of time for every 300 times you do it. Doesn't add up to much unless you are switching windows hundreds or thousands of times a day.

Not to mention the fact that selecting icons from your taskbar isn't even the most efficient way of switching windows, which would be win+number or alt+tab.

Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by johnklos on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:44PM (#32916098)
Using the mouse at all is a distraction. Moving the mouse pointer, then waiting for something to happen, is bad design.

Glad you don't need it, but perhaps don't tell others they don't.

Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by wilsonnb3 on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:48PM (#32916147)
> perhaps don't tell others they don't.

Why not? I am not contesting that people like the feature, just contesting that it makes you measurably more productive.

I like how I can move the text cursor around on my iPhone by holding the spacebar down but if they removed that feature I am not going to be measurably less productive.

Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by FreakLegion on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @03:18PM (#32916515)
Grouped taskbar items only affect mouse users in the first place. Alt+Tab windows aren't grouped. Or at least, not on any version of Windows I've ever used, which admittedly doesn't include 11.
Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by cygx on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:53PM (#32916205)
Not to mention the fact that selecting icons from your taskbar isn't even the most efficient way of switching windows, which would be win+number or alt+tab.

Not sure that's true in the setup under discussion: win+# requires figuring out which number to press - and if the count is wrong, I mind even end up on an entirely different desktop via some apps I keep pinned on the taskbar. And at the very least subjectively, alt-tab feels rather jarring and requires some mental re-adjustment before I find the proper window to click.

Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by nikau on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @03:31AM (#32921825)
I actually printed out a sheet with the numbers for each icon position and stuck it on the monitor.

For pinned stuff you eventually remember the number for each app and switch quickly.

Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by dvfjsdhgfv on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:41PM (#32916064)
Do you by any chance happen to be a Gnome developer?
Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by wilsonnb3 on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:44PM (#32916093)
Nope, not even a gnome enjoyer. More of an XFCE or KDE person.
Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by tom_ on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @04:05PM (#32917066)
Have you had somebody time you doing this?
Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by causi on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:04PM (#32915536)
I still wonder why "auto-expand taskbar when taskbar is full" isn't an option. Like isn't that the logical setup? If only one window or program is open, don't even have a taskbar. If twelve windows are open, have a taskbar tall enough for two rows of windows.
Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by akira2501 on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @03:16PM (#32916498)
They love hiding things and then calling "productivity." The system tray is one that has always historically annoyed me.. randomly hiding users icons inside of a menu that you have to know exists before you go to use it. Talking people through that on the phone was always a nightmare.

And now.. "taskbar overflow!" Even more hidden context to trip my users up and generate support calls. Thanks!

Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by seritools on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:25PM (#32915852)
Yup, it is sadly still unusable without https://startallback.com/ :(
Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by westcort on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @07:48PM (#32919288)
Got it! This is great for my productivity. So unfortunate that Microsoft didn’t even offer users an option…
Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by UberFly on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @03:11PM (#32916437)
I also always use StartAllBack to fix a lot, but the fact that Microsoft is this stubborn and can't get why this is a usability problem for many actually pisses me off. How hard can it be to reinstate this officially? </tantrum>
Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by Night_Thastus on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:48PM (#32916144)
I'm not sure if this is the same thing, but there's a "feature" where if you hover over an open application on the taskbar, it will not only show its own open windows, but also a weird "combined" view of that application and whatever else happens to be nearby. So you might have both Notepad and Outlook open. Hover over Notepad, and you don't just see a preview of the open Notepad window, you also see this stupid "Notepad + Outlook" window.

It's completely useless and so frustrating. Sadly it's impossible to get rid of.

Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by svnpenn on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @01:58PM (#32915415)
Ive used "When taskbar is full" for years. "never combine" seems to be an anti-pattern, as you'd be forced to scroll your taskbar with too many windows.

First, would you really want that? and second, why do you have so many windows open, that this is becoming a problem? if you hide search, I think you can get about 8 non-collapsed windows. do you really need more than that?

Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by wvenable on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:36PM (#32915989)
If I have 2 file explorer windows open, why wouldn't I want to 2 icons so I can quickly switch between them? Combining only makes sense if you have an unmanageable number of Windows open.

But then I'm probably the ultimate outlier: I have my Win10 taskbar configured Win95 style -- showing the full window title and one tab per window. I do not know why the "dock" style of desktop window navigation is so popular.

Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by svnpenn on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @03:57PM (#32916957)
"When taskbar is full" is the same as "never combine", unless the taskbar is full
Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by wvenable on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @04:05PM (#32917067)
When is it full? With never combine the buttons just get smaller. I guess it eventually hits a limit and scrolls but I've not experienced that.
Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by cygx on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:22PM (#32915799)
I think you can get about 8 non-collapsed windows.

My taskbar fits 28 windows before scrolling happens. It gets a bit unwieldy after the first 12, and eventually, titles will no longer be displayed.

do you really need more than that?

Yes.

Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by rishav_sharan on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:28PM (#32915894)
People using a feature differently from how you would, doesn't makes it an anti pattern.

> First, would you really want that? Yep. I was forced to buy StartAllBack, just to be able to use "Never Combine" in Windows 11

> and second, why do you have so many windows open, that this is becoming a problem? if you hide search, I think you can get about 8 non-collapsed windows. do you really need more than that?

Because people have different ways of working. I have 32 gb RAM in my laptop and at any time I have dozens of windows open. I have dozens of browser tabs open at the same time as well. When I am at work, I open each mail that I want to look at later, in a window by double clicking it in Outlook. And then later on, resolving each one by one.

Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by antisthenes on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @01:59PM (#32915458)
Ah yes, the typical "you must be using this new awful feature wrong" response.

Why don't you give the OP some respect and don't assume they don't know what they want?

Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by tom_ on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @04:20PM (#32917247)
1, Slack; 2, Teams; 3, Outlook; 4, Perforce; 5, Visual Studio; 6, Emacs; 7, Command prompt; 8, Firefox...

Ran out already before even getting to File Locator Pro and File Explorer! - and this is the stuff I know I'll almost certainly be having open pretty much every day. I'll be running additional programs on top of these.

I usually have more than 1 command prompt, and more than 1 Firefox window.

Additionally, Visual Studio isn't decorative. I will actually be using it to work on a program of some kind. And when I run that program under the debugger, the program will need space in the task bar for its icon too.

Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by thesuperbigfrog on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:25PM (#32915846)
>> "never combine" seems to be an anti-pattern

For me anything other than "Never combine" is an anti-pattern. Every application instance should have its own taskbar button that I can identify by looking at it.

>> if you hide search, I think you can get about 8 non-collapsed windows. do you really need more than that?

I have a huge ultra-wide monitor. I can easily get 20+ non-collapsed window buttons on the taskbar. Combined taskbar window buttons waste my time and impair my productivity.

Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by munk-a on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:29PM (#32915899)
I don't think either approach is an anti-pattern - different use cases will be useful for different users. I've found combining application instances to be quite useful since I use a lot of applications with no internal instance switching (PuTTY is the biggest offender here) but to each their own. This setting being a setting just felt like a good idea.
Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by thesuperbigfrog on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:33PM (#32915945)
>> I don't think either approach is an anti-pattern - different use cases will be useful for different users.

That's why I prefaced it with 'for me'.

Other people can use works best for them. I know what works best for me.

Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by munk-a on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @05:05PM (#32917783)
In my personal lexicon "anti-pattern" is a pretty universal term - X isn't an anti-pattern for Alice but not Bob - it's either an anti-pattern for everyone or it isn't an anti-pattern.

So I think in my comment above I mostly just automatically omitted the "for me" when reading your original remark.

Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by thesuperbigfrog on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @05:29PM (#32918058)
>> In my personal lexicon "anti-pattern" is a pretty universal term - X isn't an anti-pattern for Alice but not Bob - it's either an anti-pattern for everyone or it isn't an anti-pattern.

I agree.

svnpenn's comment characterized "Never combine" as an anti-pattern, but it is my preferred configuration.

Perhaps it would have been more accurate to just say that "Never combine" is not an anti-pattern since many users prefer it for various reasons.

Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by gsich on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:02PM (#32915510)
No scrolling
Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by neals on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:00PM (#32915464)
yes, many more
Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by bslqn on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:03PM (#32915520)
I don’t want to have to click twice to bring up a window from the taskbar, ever. It’s not that hard to understand.
Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by sjsdaiuasgdia on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:43PM (#32916082)
I hover over a group to get the previews of the windows in that group, then click the one I want. Just one click in the whole process, though I do understand if you see the half second or so wait after hovering as bad as having to click.
Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by thesuperbigfrog on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @03:54PM (#32916929)
>> I hover over a group to get the previews of the windows in that group, then click the one I want.

I prefer "Never combine" so that I don't have to spend any time hovering and waiting.

Re:Available today: The Windows 11 2022 Update by wilsonnb3 on Tuesday September 20, 2022 @02:40PM (#32916056)
To be pedantic, it doesn't require two clicks. You can hover and then click on the one you want.