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Re:Ask HN: What do you think when companies ask for gritty p... by simonebrunozzi on Monday September 19, 2022 @02:21AM (#32894901)
Just to name names: “Flexport is hiring smart, gritty People who get stuff done” - [0] (Flexport is a YC company [1], and therefore they get to list job offers on Hacker News from time to time)

Honestly, I can think of two things.

1) They're bad, looking for smart people to grind them down with 70-80 hour workweeks, with no end in sight, with the illusion of small stock grants that will be diluted a few more times before IPO.

2) They just needed a short title for the job posting (HN limits titles to 80 characters), and they tried to summarize the fact that they look for people who are motivated, willing to work hard. But it doesn't say much about their attitude, their desire to exploit workers, vs simply trying to find good hires to add value to the company.

I don't know if it's #1 or #2, or a #3 that I can't think of right now.

A wise prospect employee will do the homework to understand what's the company culture, what's the cap table situation, etc. There are plenty of resources to get a better sense of whether it's a good idea to work for a company or not.

[0]: https://www.flexport.com/company/careers/

[1]: https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/flexport

Re:Ask HN: What do you think when companies ask for gritty p... by dang on Monday September 19, 2022 @07:06AM (#32896742)
The guidelines we give to YC startups posting job ads explicitly ask founders not to use such language in titles. It's embarrassing.

https://news.ycombinator.com/jobguide.html

I don't think anyone is flouting these rules deliberately. It's just hard to get people to behave differently than they're used to. Founders gonna found.

Re:Ask HN: What do you think when companies ask for gritty p... by refurb on Monday September 19, 2022 @07:35AM (#32896961)
I recall quite a few posts about the shipping crisis last year and Flexport posting lots of "here is the real reason why LA's port is jammed". I recall the story about the CEO buying the longshoremen breakfast and getting the "inside skinny" on how container traffic works.

And the response, even on HN was was "whoa, these guys are so cool" and "more companies need CEOs like this who are innovative and hustlers like this guy". It was their entire schtick.

This isn't to say they didn't have interesting things to share, but the PR/Code-bro-speak was turned up to 11 and it was a huge turn off.

So maybe not that surprised they use words like "grit" in their job postings. I personally would reserve such a word for things like fighting in a war or doing a solo trek to the South Pole, but hey, apparently Flexport thinks their job is at the same level?

Re:Ask HN: What do you think when companies ask for gritty p... by geoduck14 on Monday September 19, 2022 @09:06AM (#32897770)
My 6yo daughter is learning about "having grit" in school. I think a lot of people here need to chill out about how "extreme" grit is.
Re:Ask HN: What do you think when companies ask for gritty p... by refurb on Monday September 19, 2022 @09:15AM (#32897864)
I hope you're not suggesting that language appropriate for 6 years is also appropriate for adults looking for jobs?

I mean, yes, grit, determination and tenacity are all great things to teach a child who doesn't know what they are (or at least what they're called).

But an adult? Looking for a job?

Re:Ask HN: What do you think when companies ask for gritty p... by cowuser666 on Monday September 19, 2022 @11:14AM (#32899472)
Notwithstanding the replication crisis, "grit" is a social psychology term that has been popularized in recent years. It's presented as a desirable trait for lifetime success. I think attributing this perceived relative debasement to a company is a bit much.
Re:Ask HN: What do you think when companies ask for gritty p... by mechanical_bear on Monday September 19, 2022 @11:53AM (#32900017)
Yes, some of the language is appropriate to use for either. English has great flexibility like that. Grit is one of those words that is appropriate for either audience.
Re:Ask HN: What do you think when companies ask for gritty p... by raverbashing on Monday September 19, 2022 @02:59AM (#32895166)
Yeah I wonder how's the turnover there if they keep reposting the same positions over and over

Asking for "gritty people", sorry, I'm not sandpaper

Re:Ask HN: What do you think when companies ask for gritty p... by dan-robertson on Monday September 19, 2022 @03:05AM (#32895205)
Hiring for the same position over and over could mean high turnover or it could mean a growing company. To take this to an extreme: Google aren’t constantly hiring software engineers because they have one software engineer role and everyone quits mere seconds after starting.
Re:Ask HN: What do you think when companies ask for gritty p... by lultimouomo on Monday September 19, 2022 @04:58AM (#32895932)
> Google aren’t constantly hiring software engineers because they have one software engineer role and everyone quits mere seconds after starting.

If their first task was to create a new conferencing platform, this would explain a lot of things.

Re:Ask HN: What do you think when companies ask for gritty p... by HelloNurse on Monday September 19, 2022 @05:55AM (#32896266)
There's also attempting to grow despite a high turnover, not at all uncommon with dominant marketing/sales departments and oppressed actually working peons.
Re:Ask HN: What do you think when companies ask for gritty p... by kilroy123 on Monday September 19, 2022 @08:01AM (#32897157)
Actually, the data shows the turnover rate at Google _is_ really high:

https://www.inc.com/jeff-haden/why-googles-high-turnover-rat...

Re:Ask HN: What do you think when companies ask for gritty p... by 0898 on Monday September 19, 2022 @03:25AM (#32895333)
I wondered why they capitalised “People”.
Re:Ask HN: What do you think when companies ask for gritty p... by yellow_lead on Monday September 19, 2022 @06:02AM (#32896311)
Because People™ are Important. (i.e their culture doesn't treat people well, so they over-compensate in their job marketing)
Re:Ask HN: What do you think when companies ask for gritty p... by dang on Monday September 19, 2022 @07:06AM (#32896746)
The weird things that people capitalize in job ads remind me of 18th century English. We mostly go through later and normalize the casing.
Re:Ask HN: What do you think when companies ask for gritty p... by websap on Monday September 19, 2022 @03:44AM (#32895463)
I know multiple people who joined at Senior+ levels at companies that IPO'd within the last 3 years and they made over a 1MM per year and will continue doing so with their original stock grants. Your view is cynical and unfortunate.
Re:Ask HN: What do you think when companies ask for gritty p... by bradlys on Monday September 19, 2022 @04:21AM (#32895678)
As one of those people - being hard working vs not has little to no influence on this outcome tbh.

Whether we IPO’d and got 7-fig TC was more due to market forces, our exec team, and some other noise. Whether the engineers got something delivered in 3 months instead of 4 didn’t really have a sizable impact. Besides - I found most companies that burned their engineers down to the wick were just spinning wheels more often than anything. Using up all their engineers when they hadn’t thought their product or market strategy through almost at all.

I’m not convinced 70+ hr work weeks are justified at almost any stage of company except pre-seed/seed.

Re:Ask HN: What do you think when companies ask for gritty p... by jansan on Monday September 19, 2022 @06:17AM (#32896407)
As one of those people

You should consider changing your about text, it seems outdated :)

Re:Ask HN: What do you think when companies ask for gritty p... by bradlys on Monday September 19, 2022 @06:59AM (#32896690)
If only one payday was enough for bay area. :')
Re:Ask HN: What do you think when companies ask for gritty p... by vgaspar on Monday September 19, 2022 @03:48AM (#32895490)
He construed a logic argument and provided the links to based it. You have "friends". Unfortunate is your comment.