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Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by shadowpho on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @03:51PM (#32755781)
Wow this is a game changer for many users. Plus it will generate cash once the 2 years run out!
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by guyzero on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @04:19PM (#32756205)
This raises BOM costs and has significant operating costs. How many users are likely to continue to pay for this service once the two years are up?

It's a great feature but it's far from a guaranteed money maker. This could just as likely disappear from future iPhone models.

edit: also competing dedicated devices also include the cost of SAR insurance in their monthly fees, which are significant: https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/837461/pn/010-06000-SU

It starts at $15 a month but any serious user is paying more like $35-65 a month.

Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by SkyPuncher on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @04:40PM (#32756500)
I live in a small city in what is rural America. There are a lot of places that I travel that I don't get cell service in. This could literally be a life-saver for me.

While I don't know how large this group is, skiers, hikers, boaters, campers, off-roaders would all likely get use out of this functionality.

Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by guyzero on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @04:42PM (#32756528)
Most people in the groups you mention probably already own a dedicated emergency locator device. AAPL may very well take a lot of their business, but maybe not. An inReach is going to survive a much bigger fall than an iPhone.
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by happyopossum on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @04:52PM (#32756668)
> Most people in the groups you mention probably already own a dedicated emergency locator device

Hahahahahahaha! Not a chance. Maybe the over landing crowd, and hardcore hikers, but most casual enjoyers of the outdoors definitely do NOT have a Spot or InReach. Next time you’re on a ski hill, ask around - you’ll be shocked how few people have them.

Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by acchow on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @04:56PM (#32756733)
iPhone has shown that people don't want dedicated devices. iPhone has replaced: watch, compass, digital camera, calculator, ebook reader, portable DVD player, flashlight, Garmin GPS, etc. etc. etc.
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by goleary on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @05:00PM (#32756788)
debatable...lots of people with iphones still use watches and ereaders.

and for a life saving device like this i know a subset of people will not want it a part of their phone.

...but this will definitely take a LOT of business from garmin because i believe that subset to be pretty small.

Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by frio on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @07:33PM (#32758750)
As someone who hikes (well, it's NZ, so, tramps) a fair bit, we'll continue taking our PLB with us (we opted for a 406MHz PLB rather than the Garmin solutions because we didn't want to find out in a life-threatening situation that our credit cards had expired a month ago and we couldn't call for help!). You're right, a dedicated device is pretty mandatory for true life threatening situations, and we always have a bevy of safety equipment on harder tramps.

With that said, the iPhone (Pro?) is becoming somewhat of a swiss army knife for casual tramping: offline maps with GPS and a compass, an excellent set of cameras, an ereader, excellent battery life to back all that up _and_ it can now communicate with the rest of the world in non-life threatening -- but marginal -- situations. As an example, we leave intentions with people whenever we leave ("here is our route, if we're not back by midday on the third, contact SAR"); being able to message people and say "hey, I've rolled my ankle, we're safe but will be late because we're limping out, don't worry" is a pretty excellent feature.

We're probably a niche market, but several friends in that community are pretty excited about this feature. For 2-3 day trips, this makes the outdoors much more accessible.

Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by cozzyd on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @08:42PM (#32759496)
The biggest issue is probably battery life though... an InReach lasts 4 days in its default mode and 30 days in a lower-power mode. An iPhone lasts... less than that.
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by bjtitus on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @11:44PM (#32760921)
Most people would much rather spend $20-$50 on decent external batteries and keep their all-in-one device than spend hundreds of dollars + monthly fees for dedicated satellite communicators or rescue beacons.
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by guyzero on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @05:03PM (#32756828)
Sure. Garmin is still $5B in sales annually. Which is peanuts next to the iPhone, so you wonder why they even bother going after it. AirPods are a bigger business than that.
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by bjtitus on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @11:47PM (#32760939)
It’s almost like they’re thinking about more than just the immediate money and consider these part of their messaging around health & safety.

Kind of like how Collision Detection could have been an excellent Apple Watch upsell feature but was brought to all iPhones anyway.

They recognize the power of things like fall and afib detection for pushing into the ever growing consumer Health market.

Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by LorenPechtel on Thursday September 08, 2022 @02:31PM (#32769897)
The more serious of that crowd likely will, but not the more casual people. I'd say I see them hanging from a few percent of packs--but the deeper into the backcountry one goes the higher the percentage becomes.
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by chrisseaton on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @04:46PM (#32756591)
Who are AAPL?
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by Jtsummers on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @04:52PM (#32756662)
It's Apple's stock symbol. People sometimes refer to companies by their stock symbols (on this site and others), though usually more in a financial discussion context.
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by matt_attack on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @08:21PM (#32759294)
Gotta save that 1 character yet require hitting shift to cancel it out.
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by dymk on Thursday September 08, 2022 @01:09AM (#32761423)
JUST LEAVE CAPS LOCK ON ALL THE TIME, EASY
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by goleary on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @04:58PM (#32756761)
Apple
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by jliptzin on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @04:15PM (#32756149)
How large is the demand for something like this? Are tons of people really going that far out of range of cell signals?
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by nicoburns on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @04:19PM (#32756203)
A lot of serious hikers use dedicated devices for this kind of functionality. It's expensive-ish, and the chance of needing it is small. But if you do need it then it could be an actual life-or-death situation, so it's worth it if you're out in the middle of nowhere regularly.
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by reaperducer on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @04:37PM (#32756471)
How large is the demand for something like this? Are tons of people really going that far out of range of cell signals?

When I lived in the desert, the local newspaper regularly published stories about tourists getting lost/stuck/stranded and then dying.

Going by the newspaper accounts, I'd estimate at least a dozen people died in the desert each year, and that was just in my area.

Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by bombcar on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @04:59PM (#32756777)
The demand is enough that the govn't could pay Apple the whole cost of this program and save money on search and rescue just because "head to the location of the phone" is a lot easier than "carefully comb this entire mountain range".

And that's not even counting the lives saved.

Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by LorenPechtel on Thursday September 08, 2022 @02:36PM (#32769978)
I've never tried to total them up but I don't find that at all surprising. Tourists head out into the wilderness with no respect for what they're facing. They aren't carrying enough water, they have a breakdown, they're in deep trouble.

Here in Las Vegas we have a ring of mountains around the city--and virtually no cell coverage beyond that ring. Even within the ring the outlying areas are often shadowed out.

Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by snoopy_telex on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @04:25PM (#32756293)
For the first 10 months in 2020, the Adirondacks had 245 search and rescue events[1] and it's a fairly small park nationally. This could save a huge amount of park service resources if they could be given the GPS cords to go directly to rather then spend hours searching. Expand that nation wide, it's a huge public win, and a great safety benefit to the individuals to be able to get help as soon as possible if something happens.

I was unable to find nation wide stats on search and rescue events.

[1] https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/stories/record-number-of-...

Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by malfist on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @05:14PM (#32756988)
Honestly, yes. I'm from Kentucky, and if I go back home, there's very little cell coverage. Too mountainous, too few people. You can usually get signal if you climb the biggest hill, or go into town, but if you've injured yourself and need to call 911, those aren't ideal requirements.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a lot of midwest areas that have a similar problem.

Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by jliptzin on Thursday September 08, 2022 @10:21AM (#32765911)
I agree this is a good feature, however it's 2022 and maybe the government should start forcing companies like Verizon to take some of the $50 billion in profits they make per year and build cell towers in remote areas even if it means they won't make a 1,000% profit from doing so?
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by kube-system on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @05:02PM (#32756826)
US national parks alone had 297 million visitors last year, and it's not hard to find areas without coverage in many of them. Many state parks also have tens of millions of visitors each year.

I have never not lost cell coverage when going on a hike in the mountains, and I only go on casual day hikes.

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Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by simonh on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @04:17PM (#32756180)
A free emergency service is despicable because it’s not forever. Really?
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by tpmx on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @04:55PM (#32756718)
Yes. It's long (I think since the early days in the 80s) been a tenet in mobile phone industry that emergency calls always need to be free. You route them best to your technical ability - anything else is unethical.

With any cellular phone it's possible to dial the local emergency number.

Doesn't matter if your current operator has coverage, the phone will find the network that has the best coverage. There's still explicit validation of this capability for new phone devices.

You don't even need a SIM card.

But now Apple has ended the practice.

Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by jshzglr on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @05:10PM (#32756937)
Would it be more ethical if they could but never did release this feature? Because that is essentially what you are advocating for, considering no public company could foot the bill in perpetuity.

The way this probably plays out is by the time the 2 years is up or shortly thereafter this will be subsidized by the gov.

Apple is leaving quite a bit of money on the table here, while simultaneously spending quite a bit. Wipe the entitlement from your eyes and recognize this for what it is.

Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by tpmx on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @05:18PM (#32757054)
> considering no public company could foot the bill in perpetuity.

iPhone margins do allow for it.

> Wipe the entitlement from your eyes and recognize this for what it is.

Sir, let me very calmly ask you to please behave better in discussions here.

Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by jshzglr on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @05:35PM (#32757274)
So you can call certain behavior despicable but I can't call your behavior entitled. That sounds pretty entitled.
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by number6 on Thursday September 08, 2022 @02:22AM (#32761890)
The body of the missing person had been found after 4 days of search. She still held her Phone in her hand displaying the Message: "Please update your credit card information to purchase this subscription. The free usage ended 6 days ago".
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by simonh on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @05:29PM (#32757208)
It was a mandatory requirement from the governments that issued the spectrum licenses, that's all.
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by happyopossum on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @04:56PM (#32756728)
That’s never been the case for satellite service - ever.
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by tpmx on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @05:06PM (#32756871)
Well, this is the first time a mainstream phone gets satellite service.
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by kube-system on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @05:10PM (#32756939)
That is true and this may set a new precedent, but connectivity requirements in the past were always placed on carriers before, and never phone manufacturers.
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by matt_attack on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @08:25PM (#32759327)
Phone manufacturers didn't offer services before. In this case Apple is the carrier (much like a MVNO) for the service.
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by astrange on Thursday September 08, 2022 @05:21AM (#32763200)
That’s a per-country regulatory requirement - it’s true in most countries but the internet tells me it’s not true in the UK.
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by happyopossum on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @04:55PM (#32756723)
Despicable? This is a huge investment for Apple (look at Globalstar’s SEC filing for details), it’s free for 2 years, and we don’t even know what (if anything) it will cost after that. But you’re confident it’s “despicable”.

That smacks of some serious entitlement man…

Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by malfist on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @05:18PM (#32757058)
I hate apple because of vendor lock in and nonsense with their walled garden. But seriously, GP is deluded.

Satellite emergency services has never been free, even if you buy an garmin device for this, they don't operate if you're not paying your monthly bill.

Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by pxeboot on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @08:08PM (#32759156)
There were many Personal Locator Beacon's that worked without a subscription. They were more popular before the inReach, but still available.
Re:Emergency SOS via satellite is included for free with iPh... by goleary on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @05:01PM (#32756811)
a bit of strong reaction given you have no idea whether or not it includes lifetime global 911 after the 2 years...