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Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by lm28469 on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @07:33AM (#32563280)
> Straightforward grants that do not hinge on scrapping a motor vehicle have also been raised from €200 to €300 and up to €300 for lower income households and people with disabilities.

Emphasis on "lower income", the cap is 13k euros per year, which is under the annual min wage if you work full time. If you earn above that you get nothing at all

Also, all the options (lump sums and trade-ins) are capped to 40% of the price of the bike. So you'd have to trade your car for a 6000+ euros electric bike to get the full 3000 euros

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by dmix on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @07:41AM (#32563344)
I’ve lost count of how many times good sounding government programs turn out to be lame once you read the fine print.

I really can’t see many people fitting either of those categories, unless they were already going to get rid of their car. And I’m a big fan of e-bikes.

Most e-bikes cost around $2-3k so it’s basically a $1k subsidy where you pay the other $1k for a bike.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by bjarneh on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:13AM (#32563669)
> I’ve lost count of how many times good sounding government programs turn out to be lame once you read the fine print.

This is certainly true. Not sure if the one we had in Norway a few years ago can be classified as 'lame'. But it did more harm than good I think, as electric bikes became associated with a government subsidy for the rich. Most of the money went directly to the richest areas in Oslo (which are the richest areas in Norway probably). The subsidy gave buyers of electric bikes 5.000 NOK (~$500), but bikes were hard to come by and very expensive at the time (2016), so only the rich got on waiting lists for bikes and swooped up all the subsidies.

Source (in Norwegian):

https://www.aftenposten.no/oslo/i/O3Vl/el-sykkelsubsidier-gi...

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by andrepd on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @10:19AM (#32565298)
The same thing happened/is happening with electric vehicle subsidies: it's essentially a 4000€ gift to the rich that can afford a 70k€ car.

What needs to be done is:

(1) End subsidies for electric cars, and give them for e-bikes instead. With the 4k on a 70k you're barely making a dent, and you can use it instead to give e.g. 5× 800€ subsidies on 1000-1500€ e-bikes.

(2) Lump sum instead of percentage. say 800€ on a 1000€ bike or 800€ on a 5000€ bike.

(3) Give the money directly on the purchase instead of returning it later. This latter mode essentially blocks out people who don't have the money upfront. With solar panels this is especially grating: in my country you can get 85% subsidy on solar panels, which is just ludicrously efficient (I installed mine for ~500€ 6 months ago and they have nearly paid themselves back). But for that to work you need to have >5k€ lying around that you don't mind only being paid back in the end of the year! That excludes ~80-90% of people, according to statistics.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by panick21_ on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @12:37PM (#32567460)
Here is an even better plan.

Instead of subsidizing e-bikes, install bike infrastructure. Because bike infrastructure helps literally all people on bikes, including e-bikes. Because lets be honest, for most things you would use a bike for, normal bikes work perfectly fine and they are available to the very poor.

And such infrastructure would likely also improve live of pedestrians.

The US builds roads far to wide anyway, and thanks to all the work in Europe we know how to build good bike infrastructure. A new federal code for roads, bikes and pedestrian. This could also massively improve road safety in general.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by bombcar on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @10:22AM (#32565336)
It's even worse in the US! The electrical rebate is against tax collected, so you not only have to have the money to buy (or borrow to buy) an electric car, but you have to have enough tax liability to take advantage of the whole rebate.

Or lease the car and let the car company take it for you.

If it was an above the line credit, I would have highly considered it.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by Tempest1981 on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @10:34AM (#32565515)
Typically you would need an income of $47,000 to maximize the $7500. And under $150,000 (individual).

Per https://ttlc.intuit.com/community/tax-credits-deductions/dis...

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by bombcar on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @10:43AM (#32565621)
Single (no dependents) is the problem.

The purchasers of the plug-in Pacifica are not usually going to be in that demographic. I couldn't get to the $7500, so the Sienna wins.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by Scoundreller on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @10:33AM (#32565501)
Same with net metering: you need to be an electricity hog to get the most value.

Otherwise you just accumulate credit that you may never use. Or you create new electricity use which defeats the purpose (but great if you actually sub pre-existing fuel consumption, if you have it). I wonder if nano-markets emerge where you invite your neighbourhood to charge their stuff at your home or run extension cords around…

Better to have a feed in tariff where you’re encouraging to conserve and produce.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by MengerSponge on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @10:24AM (#32565374)
On the other hand, good policies get rich people to subsidize development of new technologies that benefit everyone.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by panick21_ on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @12:39PM (#32567483)
That could be relevant very early in the life cycle of some technology, but e-bikes are far from that. They are a very widely available consumer product that frankly doesn't need support for further innovations.

Batteries are going to get better regardless and even if they don't, the current state of the art is by far good enough for 99.9% of practical uses for e-bikes.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by Scoundreller on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @10:38AM (#32565562)
Lots of subsidies in Canada for solar installs but no innovation comes to mind.

We’ve had some Canadian content requirements, but it ends up being the mounting equipment and wiring. We haven’t developed capacity to put together our own core inverter components or panels themselves: too cheap to assemble overseas.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by II2II on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @11:48AM (#32566673)
> But it did more harm than good I think, as electric bikes became associated with a government subsidy for the rich.

Ultimately the question is: did the electric bike program meet its goals? If one of the goals was to improve access to transportation for the poor, it sounds like it fell short. If the primary goal was to reduce the use of cars, it may have still been a success. (That said, I do question the commitment of those who had the money but choose not to until there was a subsidy.)

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by cheschire on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:05AM (#32563581)
Why is it lame that they had a specific group of disadvantaged people they were trying to target? When governments make blanket payouts (i.e. what the US did during COVID) people complain about the money going to people who don't need it. In this case they had a very specific group, intent, and budget. Isn't this what "small" government is supposed to do?

And the bikes they're trying to encourage people to buy probably aren't the high end ones, or even the mid-range bikes. I'm guessing someone did some research at some point.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by dmix on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:26AM (#32563825)
Obviously because of how they targeted people and not that they targeted a demographic. 13.5% of the population has access to $300, which is fine but is probably not a the typical market for expensive bikes, and $300 will only get you 5-20% off (not including a helmet).

A lot of these programs are made to sound good on campaign platforms but don’t do much at all IRL

Finding a way to subsidize conversion kits + local shops to do it would be a good way to actually help poor people https://www.autoevolution.com/news/skarper-s-revolutionary-e...

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by LtWorf on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:15AM (#32563690)
You think poor people living in the banlieu are going to get such bikes they can't even afford to have them stolen in 1 hour?

This was probably made targeting some specific category that isn't the one you're thinking.

Better give some money to people who don't need it than make some overly complicated plan that requires a specialist to access and only targets some friends.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by jeromegv on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @09:41AM (#32564789)
> Better give some money to people who don't need it than make some overly complicated plan that requires a specialist to access and only targets some friends.

I personally agree with that. But then it always ending up hurting the politicians that came up with that policy because medias will broadcast 24-7 examples of the few people that received it that did not deserve it. Even 2 years after COVID stimulus, McConnel keeps repeating that people are still so rich from receiving thousands and thousands of dollars and that was responsible for 2022 labor shortage... (for $2000 distributed now more than a year ago)

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by LtWorf on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @12:14PM (#32567124)
Yeah that's true. In Italy they gave some money to low income people and I'm sure after the next elections the right wing government that will win will take that away.

They never say how it made people able to avoid joining black market jobs or crime. They just show restaurant owners crying because they can't find (greatly underpaid) workers.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by qaq on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:09AM (#32563622)
people making under 13K a year are not really buying 6K bikes
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by wolfram74 on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:22AM (#32563775)
costco has a folding ebike that's under 400$[0].

[0]https://www.costco.com/jetson-bolt-pro-folding-electric-bike...

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by jstanley on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:40AM (#32564012)
But a 40% subsidy on a $400 bike is only worth $160, not the €4k headline figure.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by kaibee on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @09:05AM (#32564338)
If you give everyone a no questions asked 100% subsidy, you're gonna have a lot of people reselling bikes that the government paid for.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by jacquesm on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @09:16AM (#32564459)
They'd have to resell them abroad though, the local market would be pretty much saturated, no?
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by danielheath on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @09:28AM (#32564621)
It's not difficult to get from Paris to Barcelona and back, with or without a bike.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by Scoundreller on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @10:52AM (#32565762)
If I need to offload an ebike from Paris, I could think of closer countries that would value them higher!
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by InitialLastName on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @10:42AM (#32565606)
Why would you buy a bike from a reseller for $0 + profit when you can get one the with a government subsidy for $0?
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by antasvara on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @10:00AM (#32565032)
Isn't that true of any subsidy? If 40% of my bike is subsidized, I only need to buy and resell that bike for greater than 60% of the purchase price.

I bet you'd get less resellers, but you'd definitely still get a lot of them.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by andrepd on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @10:21AM (#32565325)
That is true with any amount of subsidy. And yes, and people can use e.g. welfare payments to buy cigarrettes and booze. That is in itself not an argument against welfare payments.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by teaearlgraycold on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @10:19AM (#32565303)
Yeah but you also have cash from selling your car.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by jstanley on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @10:30AM (#32565458)
But you get cash from selling your car even without the government subsidy,

If "France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy" is 96% the cash they got from selling their car, then it's a strange turn of phrase. It's more like "the secondhand car market is offering a €4k everything-subsidy if you give up your car"!

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by Workaccount2 on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @10:06AM (#32565107)
Total aside...

That bike looks like one of those mini circus bikes that clowns ride

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by JKCalhoun on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:25AM (#32563816)
Probably the ones least able to afford petrol though?
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by panick21_ on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @12:40PM (#32567491)
You know what bikes are good for poor people. Bikes without electric motors.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by bko on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @09:44AM (#32564817)
Why does it sound good to begin with? Realistically who would trade in their car for a bike? I would imagine it would be young upper middle class urban dwellers. Not people with a family, elderly or people that live in cheaper suburban areas. It sounds like its a wealth transfer from taxpayers to the relatively wealthy.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by Ragnarokk on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @09:56AM (#32564984)
Because French cities are now planned to forbid cars inside the center. A lot of cities like Paris or Lyon have already planned dates for it to happen. Plus, old city centers tend to not have any garage and the few parking places are very expensive. Bicycle lanes tend to replace car lanes and circulating in car is nightmarish on design.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by Scoundreller on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @10:54AM (#32565792)
After getting lost in a few: « what design? »
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by Ragnarokk on Wednesday August 24, 2022 @04:13AM (#32576276)
For example, in my city, lots of 2-way streets are replaced by 1-way with bicycle lane. As there is more 1-ways, you sometimes have to drive in circles to get somewhere. On the weekends, parts of the city that are normally drivable are closed to cars. There is a highway entrance near my workplace. Some months ago, there was a stoplight on pedestrian demand, now it is mandatory even though there are close to no pedestrian there. The cars have now to wait 2 minutes more to get on the highway. I can't think of more for now but there are surely other examples.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by touisteur on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @02:55PM (#32569520)
We have 2 kids, no car. Maintenance is ~200-250 year in shop, 60-80 when done yourself. Insurance is around 4-7EUR/mo. Every year we do the 'how much a car for the same use costs' and it's an order of magnitude more. We live in suburbs, long distance (>10km) is mostly by bus or train. Groceries are fun with the cargo.

The most annoying PITA stuff are:

- theft. I worry a lot and have to fix the e-cargo on a fixed point everywhere. It's not always easy to find a good parking spot. But we got a long motorbike chain and you get used to it. Get insured though.

- flat tire, in the middle of nowhere... You gotta be prepared and either have a spare 'flat' tube or do the quick repair on the wheel, cause the back wheel is hell (for me) to handle. After a bad experience, now we have the kit (xiaomi portable compressor for <50eur, some spare tubes, some gluestuff, and the right strategy) always handy.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by andrepd on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @10:22AM (#32565341)
> Not people with a family, elderly or people that live in cheaper suburban areas.

The dutch manage to do it (minus the elderly). Why is it so strange that a 40 year old dad and a 7 year old kid bike to work/school respectively?

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by JJzD on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @11:00AM (#32565883)
Come to the Netherlands and those people are exactly the people biking. The elderly have more mobility and health this way, a cargo bike is a very popular second car replacement, for groceries and kids. And it's not like maintaining a car is cheap and such a good deal for the poor.

But yes, suburbs make a car required for most people outside of Europe, but we have to start somewhere.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by tomjen3 on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @11:49AM (#32566694)
I had a coworker who brought an ebike instead of a second car. Probably others would choose to not replace their car with a new one if an ebike made more sense.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by JKCalhoun on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:24AM (#32563808)
A program might ultimately succeed if it invigorates the market - eventually helping to bring down the price of e-bikes. I feel like (home) solar subsidies did that.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by rb666 on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @09:42AM (#32564801)
We're talking about commuter bikes, replacing a car...a good Speedelec is indeed 6k-10k Euros.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by touisteur on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @03:00PM (#32569602)
For e-cargos you get good value for <5kEUR. Can't imagine plunking down 6k-10k (yet) on a non cargo ebike. I've tried a lot of the more expensive cargos and it feels some are not even trying to sell an integrated product you can use. Things like unsafe breaks, non-intuitive gear change, front wheel runaway vibration...
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by peteradio on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:13AM (#32563674)
> so it’s basically a $1k subsidy where you pay the other $1k for a bike.

And you are out a car?

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by JKCalhoun on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:26AM (#32563832)
In the U.S. your insurance obligation will then plummet, registration fees evaporate and I suspect maintenance costs wither as well.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by Doctor_Fegg on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:36AM (#32563968)
Which is 100% realistic in large parts of France and indeed the rest of Europe.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by peteradio on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:38AM (#32563993)
Indeed, its possible to bike into Geneva from countryside France without showing papers, at least it was. I almost got smoked in a roundabout there, good times.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by Xylakant on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @07:45AM (#32563385)
Cargo bikes easily reach 6k. No problem. And those are the ones that often make sense if a family wants to trade in a car.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by egman_ekki on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @09:04AM (#32564322)
Exactly, starting price for an electric cargo bike is 3k€ (https://www.babboe.nl/babboe-big-e) and better models go for 6-7k€ (https://www.butchersandbicycles.com/mk1e-vario).
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by whazor on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @09:49AM (#32564890)
For people considering a cargo bike, counterintuitively: a two-wheeled cargo bikes are much easier to cycle than three-wheeled cargo bikes. Actually you are more likely to fall with a three-wheeled cargo bike. Even when parking you would think a two wheel cargo bike easily falls but the kick-stands are easy and it is not a problem.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by Xylakant on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @10:05AM (#32565088)
I’d say so-so. Depends on the use-case. Two wheeled are definitely easier to ride with a faster pace, but they’re much harder to balance when heavily loaded. I have tipped over with heavy loads on emergency stops.

Two wheeled also wins when there’s little space or the track is bad. What’s better really depends on your cycling proficiency, your intended use case and the road network you’ll likely use. And whatever you do, test-ride a few different ones to figure out what works for you. Avoid buying something off the internet without ever trying. (Things are different if you’re buying your second, third,…)

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by throw0101a on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @11:24AM (#32566292)
> a two-wheeled cargo bikes are much easier to cycle than three-wheeled cargo bikes.

See video "The Car-Replacement Bicycle (the bakfiets)"

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQhzEnWCgHA

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_bike#Long_John_bicycle

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by Xylakant on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @12:40PM (#32567488)
It’s worth noting that the two-wheeler demonstrated in this video is an old-style one with wheels just attached at the box. The Butchers and Bicycles one linked by the grandparent post is one with an actual steering at the front - the box and the bike will lean into a corner, just like a two-wheeler would.

This makes modern 3-wheelers much more agile. They still have certain disadvantages- they’re wide and bulky, you’ll have trouble avoiding potholes etc., but they’re nowhere as bad as those boxes with wheels (tough you can still buy those - their upside is their low price)

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by radu_floricica on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @12:01PM (#32566914)
Thanks, that was a good video. I'm more sold on cargo bikes now (though unfortunately I doubt they're much use in my climate in winter)
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by throw0101a on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @06:52PM (#32572632)
"Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can)":

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by radu_floricica on Wednesday August 24, 2022 @02:24AM (#32575561)
Yeah, I've been linked this before in another thread. But somebody there also provided the statistics: even in the "capital of winter biking", about 22% of trips are taken by bike. Which makes bikes a valid alternative, but not a main solution.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by panick21_ on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @12:43PM (#32567539)
The same channel has other videos about biking in winter. But I of course don't know where you live and what you would use them for.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by bombcar on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @10:26AM (#32565391)
The stable three-wheel trikes have the dual wheels in the front which is found sometimes, but not terribly effective for cargo hauling.

And if you have four wheels, people stop considering you a bike.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by saryant on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @09:25AM (#32564576)
Denver, CO is offering $1200-1800 ebike subsidies to low income residents and $400 to those above the threshold. It’s been enormously popular.

https://www.5280.com/2022/07/everything-you-need-to-know-abo...

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by Timshel on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:21AM (#32563766)
For the trade-in a 1500€ cap is available to everyone and depending where you live an additional 1000€ may be available (low emission zone which include at the moment 10 of the biggest cities).
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by touisteur on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @02:43PM (#32569309)
I read the law some months ago and it was 13k per dependant ('part'). This is still a good deal for poor to struggling families. Trade your money pit for this new bike. This specific one is meant for poor families looking for a means of moving around. I can tell, looking at the yearly cost of owning a car, that this could really help some city folks getting out of the trap of auto-credit/insurance/maintenance cost that makes end-of-months a struggle.

And be careful with such subsidies: when they created the 600eur subvention for e-cargo in Paris I observed a (maybe uncorrelated) substantial increase in price of e-cargos...

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by arkh on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @09:20AM (#32564508)
And it's the French administration. Get ready for months long of back and forth about missing documents or information before you can hope to see your money.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by Scoundreller on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @11:02AM (#32565899)
In practice, I’ve found it variable.

Drivers licenses are a lifetime thing: no need to renew every X years, because it’s not your photo ID.

Another thing they do well (from a US/Canadian point of view) is identify their people.

It’s all national: very little is state by state or city by city.

Need a birth certificate or police report? Just sign in with your national ID and they’re in your mailbox in under a week.

None of this North American garbage where you need to provide fingerprints or further details because you share a birth date with a criminal or have the same name as someone else born somewhere else on the same day.

And when claiming a tax credit, that should make it straight forward, because it will be difficult to make the claim multiple times by varying your demographics.

Tax returns are bloody simple if you’re a non-billionaire: log in and verify that, yes, the information that the government already has about your income and housing situation is correct and click Accept. Done.

More Difficult to cheat on your rental property taxes since every property needs to be declared as an own-use or income property, with further details required for the latter.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by hokkos on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @12:03PM (#32566940)
I've done the 400€ scheme 2 years ago for an eMTB and although it was long like 2 months but just 1 form and no back and forth at all.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by causi on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @07:42AM (#32563357)
Also, all the options (lump sums and trade-ins) are capped to 40% of the price of the bike. So you'd have to trade your car for a 6000+ euros electric bike to get the full 3000 euros

What possible reason do they have for that? All it does is encourage people to buy a more expensive bike.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by addicted on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:04AM (#32563573)
No it doesn’t. It makes it easier to buy a more expensive bike, but it’s still more expensive.

A $2000 ebike will cost you $1200. A $4000 ebike will cost you $2400. A $6000 ebike will cost you $3600.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by mytailorisrich on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @07:49AM (#32563423)
The reason it is capped at a percentage of the bike's purchase price is to limit abuse. If people have to spend a good chunk of their own money they may think twice, if it's a free ebike everyone will take the offer and immediately resell the bike (yay free money).

I'm any case 4k is huge as most ebikes are cheaper than that... I suspect this is just to generate headline with a big number...

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by causi on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @07:50AM (#32563432)
How is it a free bike if they have to give up their car to get it?
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by probably_wrong on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @07:53AM (#32563471)
You could buy a really cheap, barely functional car for 1k. You trade it in, get a 6k bike for free, and then you sell the bike.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by ThePadawan on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:06AM (#32563594)
As linked in the thread, you must have been the owner of the car for 1 year to be eligible.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by ptero on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:01AM (#32563539)
According to an earlier post, the cap is 40% of both bike and car price. If you trade in a car for 200, your max ebike refund is 80.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by tecleandor on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @07:55AM (#32563484)
You might have a low value car. I just sold my old car for 600€. If I had an offer like this, and I could swap it for an expensive e-bike, even when paying for the 60% of the bike my car would have doubled its "value".
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by mytailorisrich on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @07:53AM (#32563467)
If I have an old car I need to replace I can now have a free ebike, and then I buy my new car...
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by lm28469 on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:27AM (#32563851)
Or you could sell your car, or trade in your car (+ money) for another car

It's limited to one per person anyways, it's not like the mafia was going to buy 500k cheap cars and get 500k brand new free electric bikes.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by arkh on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @09:23AM (#32564556)
> All it does is encourage people to buy a more expensive bike.

No. All it does is the 2000€ bike is now sold for 3000€.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by lm28469 on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @07:57AM (#32563503)
> All it does is encourage people to buy a more expensive bike

Virtue signalling and a half disguised way of increasing sales and consumerism

If they really cared about climate they'd find proper ways (more/cheaper public transport, state sponsored bicycle sharing, &c.). This is "green capitalism", just slap an "electric" sticker on it and continue with the good old ways

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by adrianN on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:01AM (#32563546)
Replacing cars with bicycles is one of the most "proper" ways of decarbonizing transportation.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by lm28469 on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:25AM (#32563819)
But apparently only expensive and new electric bikes, not regular bikes or used bikes. And you have to make 900 euros a months, otherwise you're not worthy of assistance, but also you have to pay 60% out of pocket....
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by adrianN on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:28AM (#32563856)
It's certainly far from perfect, but it's still replacing cars with bicycles.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by throwaway0a5e on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @09:58AM (#32565013)
Yeah, but the bottom of the market where there's no slack isn't where you start.

Kicking the poors while they're down and/or pulling the rug out from under people who are just barely doing better is not a sustainable way of decarbonizing society and it seems like every decarbonizing policy does just that. We can get away with a few such policies but when they're all like that it doesn't work.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by mytailorisrich on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:49AM (#32564117)
I doubt many people would actually replace cars with bicycles.

It's not the same use case and in congested places like central Paris people who need a motor have scooters.

Feedback stats on these schemes are important but rarely conducted or published in a transparent way as the government obviously has a vested interest in claiming that they work great.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by adrianN on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @08:57AM (#32564241)
Since you need to get rid of a car to get the subsidy and you have to pay a substantial part of the cost of the bicycle yourself, even if you wanted to scrap a car to buy a new one you probably expect to use the electric bike at least often enough to justify paying the subsidized price for it.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by mytailorisrich on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @12:26PM (#32567269)
The point of my previous comment is that I don't see many people swapping their car for an ebike. That would be the key metric to judge this scheme (alongside the actual cost to taxpayers...)

I am sure some people will use the scheme but probably because they were thinking of getting an ebike anyway and a replacing their car for a new one...

It's the usual and main issue with those schemes: they are political decisions and don't always make practical or economical sense.

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by pjmlp on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @09:20AM (#32564507)
Sure, if you want one bycicle per person on the family, and everyone enjoys getting soaked in water during Winter.
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by wikfwikf on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @09:39AM (#32564766)
This is literally state sponsored bicycle use. What would you suggest that 'state sponsored bicycle sharing' should consist of?
Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by lm28469 on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @10:06AM (#32565119)
> What would you suggest that 'state sponsored bicycle sharing' should consist of

Instead of renting an uber&co bikes (companies which use public infrastructure yet pay virtually no local tax) you'd rent state owned bikes, parked on official bike parkings. It could be part of your existing public transportation package &c.

It really doesn't take a genius to see how the current mayhem could be improved on so many levels

Re:France is now offering a €4k e-bike subsidy to people who... by WastingMyTime89 on Tuesday August 23, 2022 @10:24AM (#32565369)
France already has that in all of the major cities. The subscription is heavily subsidised if you are poor.

This is the next step when you already have that.