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Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by andai on Friday August 12, 2022 @03:58AM (#32435696)
This seems like the right place to ask, does anyone know a lightweight Explorer alternative? I basically just want Windows XP explorer on Windows 10. I don't need tabs or dual panes, I just want it to be as fast as it used to be.

Whenever I run XP in a VM, I'm amazed that explorer windows not only open instantly, but fully drawn! In W10 it takes half a second to even respond, and then another half second while it draws the UI elements one by one.

If I move a folder, Sublime Text detects it instantly, but the same explorer window I used to move it takes several seconds to register the change it itself made...

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by koenvdb on Friday August 12, 2022 @04:51AM (#32436009)
A lot of people always go crazy when someone asks this question and instantly praise Total Commander. Link can be found here: https://www.ghisler.com/
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by andai on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:18AM (#32436480)
Alas! This one has an infinite number of features I don't need, and it doesn't do the one thing I'm after: open new windows.

You can technically get a new window by launching a new instance of the app, but it takes as long to open as Windows 10's Explorer. Plus you get a nagging shareware screen ;)

I want to say "close but no cigar", but this thing isn't even on the right planet...

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by badsectoracula on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:45AM (#32436640)
Total Commander is so great i am even using on Linux via Wine after switched to it as my main OS (though i also use Double Commander, which is a Total Commander clone, but somehow it feels a bit off compared to TC, so i mainly use DC only when i care about the unix-specific details working).
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by enlyth on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:10AM (#32436128)
You just sent me on a nostalgia trip, used to use this back in the days. Also anyone else remember the kind of equivalent Norton/Volkov commander from the DOS days?
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by pajko on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:13AM (#32436140)
You can get the same look&feel with FAR Manager: https://www.farmanager.com/screenshots.php?l=en
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by cobbaut on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:57AM (#32436363)
I am sure many people remember Norton Commander (or nc). Also take a look at Midnight Commander if you still like this.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by saiya-jin on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:49AM (#32436322)
that's how I ended up with Total commander - the line of 2-pane file managers go all the way back to 1993 for me to DOS 6.22 and those tools. Once getting used to this concept, doing anything non-trivial on filesystem is very effective compared to simple file browsing windows others use. All work can be done only via keyboard which is much faster compared to adding mouse.

You could say its a matter of getting used to given tool - but consistently when I watch colleagues doing similar tasks, I am so much faster, easily 2-10x depending on task. And thats folks with 20+ years of experience. Yet whenever I try to show my ways to others, nobody picks it up. Its like some mental blind spot, people generally are happy to learn more effective ways for their work, but not this one.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by anakaine on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:13AM (#32436142)
XTree Gold
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by macote on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:55AM (#32437116)
There's also the native Windows version of XTree: ZTreeWin (https://www.ztree.com/index.html)
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by uxx on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:15AM (#32436152)
i had to pause for a second, your comment sounds weirdly like a spam...maybe reward it
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by gchamonlive on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:46AM (#32436649)
A lot of people always go crazy when someone asks these questions and instantly praise Total Commander! You won't believe the fifth one...
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by vbezhenar on Friday August 12, 2022 @04:30AM (#32435880)
That's not my experience with Windows. Explorer works pretty much instantly for me. Did you try to reinstall Windows? Sounds like issue with some shell extensions or something like that.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by dspillett on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:15AM (#32436153)
I've not known, Explorer to open instantly, or what I would call instantly, even on a fresh install, for some time IIRC. Heck, the amount of times I hit win+R to kick something off and that takes so long to open that the first couple of characters are missed and go to whatever window I had in focus at the time, is irritating. It certainly gets a lot worse when Explorer has been running a while (presumably this is why it has its own special case in Task Manager – pick Explorer and “end task” becomes “restart”) and its memory use has grown significantly (this is likely at least in part due to shell extension though the only one with any complexity I have installed here is MS's own TFS integration, and I have nothing like that running at home ATM).

Other things similarly take a while, like registering an update made elsewhere. These can be quite arbitrary, sometimes pretty instant, sometimes taking many seconds, and sometimes not updating at all until I explicitly refresh. I've even copied a small file to the same directory and waited several seconds before it showed up.

> Did you try to reinstall Windows?

For no sane desktop/similar operating system should “completely reinstall” be an off-hand answer for any but a massively significant error…

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by muststopmyths on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:49AM (#32437065)
Try dissociating the photos app from jpgs. It triggers some strange CPU hogging and other side effects
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by dspillett on Friday August 12, 2022 @08:10AM (#32437283)
Usually when the problem gets really bad, memory use has jumped into a few hundred MB. That seems to happen when I've switched between local login and acceding the machine via RDC.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by fzfaa on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:24AM (#32436200)
Believe me, you simply do not remember how fast XP was. Install it in a VM and see for yourself.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by rahen on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:37AM (#32436277)
I keep a bad memory of how slow XP, 2000 and even NT4 were on late 90s machines.

Windows 9x was a strange beast, being a VM running on top of a DOS hypervisor, but it was mostly C and inline assembly and felt fast, even with 8MB of memory and a 75MHz processor. Windows 2000 was quite less efficient and would have taken eight times the memory and twice the processor speed to achieve the same responsiveness. Even more with XP.

Nowadays Windows, the mere operating system, feels slow even on computers as powerful as datacenters of the 90s. Twenty five years of abstraction layers, subsystems, processes and libraries adding up, and it's getting worse (W11 vs W10).

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by dspillett on Friday August 12, 2022 @08:48AM (#32437704)
Find some hardware from the time and compare. Certainly common hardware from around the time of the initial release. It might not run as fast as you remember.

It definitely won't run as fast as a VM on a modern host with a much more powerful CPU, significantly faster IO (especially if the VM is hosted on an SSD).

Also, once you hit the point where the guest OS can't cache as much as it wants (as you've allocated a realistic amount of RAM from time) the host layer may be caching reads at least in the extra memory it has.

[though I do get the point: if it can be as fast as it was on old kit, why can't Win10/Win11 be faster on modern kit]

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by andai on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:20AM (#32436500)
Had this and several other persistent issues across reinstalls, across devices... in 2015 I remember when Windows 10 came out and it was full of absolutely ridiculous UI bugs, at the time people made fun of Microsoft for using the customers as beta testers. So I avoided it for several years, only to discover that they hadn't fixed hardly any of them...
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by alt227 on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:49AM (#32436327)
Microsoft open sourced the original:

https://github.com/Microsoft/winfile/

Edit: Also available on the microsoft store https://www.microsoft.com/store/apps/9p7vbbbc49rb?ocid=badge

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by Daedren on Friday August 12, 2022 @04:18AM (#32435800)
I'm a fan of Directory Opus. It's -far- more feature filled than Explorer, yet it's much faster at opening (assuming the service is turned on at startup).
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by Double_a_92 on Friday August 12, 2022 @04:36AM (#32435920)
I just don't like the design of this, or any other explorer alternative for that matter. It always has some very outdated feel to it... combined with an extremely cluttered view. Like texts and icons and buttons and options that I would never need all over the place.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by UberFly on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:12AM (#32436138)
"Like texts and icons and buttons and options"

Oh the horror... :)

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by ivank on Friday August 12, 2022 @04:42AM (#32435954)
All of those toolbars and lister layouts are extremely customizable.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by andai on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:23AM (#32436519)
Can you get rid of all of them?

My preferred UI:

Location bar Sidebar (file tree) | File List

Would be nice if each feature you don't need could be removed from the purchase price. I think the version I want would end up having a negative price tag ;)

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by Double_a_92 on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:10AM (#32436129)
That's also another point. I don't want to have to customize a software before it's reasonably usable. I probably don't even know myself how I would like it to be. It's the UX designer's job to make it pretty, not the user's.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by jmnicolas on Friday August 12, 2022 @04:33AM (#32435900)
IMHO DOpus is an OS in itself ! Way too bloated / complicated for my tastes. Of course YMMV.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by Hard_Space on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:02AM (#32436387)
After 10+ years of DOpus, I can't imagine ever going back to Explorer, except for the odd outlier use case. I'm sorry to see people saying that it's 'cluttered'. That's exactly the way I like it, and you can make it as basic as you like.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by opless on Friday August 12, 2022 @04:26AM (#32435849)
+1 for DOpus, though as much as I pester the devs they refuse to develop for the mac :-P
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by thrownaway561 on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:17AM (#32436819)
link to Directory Opus

https://www.gpsoft.com.au/

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by Tsiklon on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:29AM (#32436239)
I suspect that for Windows 10 the window appearing but not fully drawn is a function of the introduction of a display compositor (Desktop Window Manager) in Windows Vista - this is also what solved the famous issue of Windows "leaving trails" of application Windows when they were unresponsive, and also permitted all the "aero" effects that Vista and 7 used as selling points. Windows XP and earlier used a Stacking Window Manager.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by JacobSeated on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:48AM (#32436658)
Although I am not having these problems with Explorer, I am going to answer this out of interest.

Obviously running Windows in a VM will be slower, but besides, Explorer is more than just the file manager.

It used to be very easy to replace the shell (Explorer.exe) with your own binary, but while this is now harder in later Windows versions it is still doable. I loved to play around with that when I was younger, and before I got seriously into Linux.

Now, there is actually a few options:

- Aston Shell used to be my favorite, but it does not seem like it is actively developed anymore. It is also closed source, which is potentially a security concern.

- Classic Shell (Works for Windows 10)

- ExplorerPatcher (taskbar enhancements for Windows 11)

- StartIsAllBack (taskbar enhancements for Windows 11)

I do not recommend replacing the default file manager, because Explorer is already extremely good. If this is slow for you, most likely something else is causing it to be slow. E.g. Waiting for a external/internal storage device to respond perhaps?

Now, talk about Finder on Mac – while not slow, its UI is truly horrendous compared to Explorer on Windows or file managers in Linux.

If your system is slow, then keep in mind that a lot of things are going on with later versions of Windows that can make the system slow. I hate the "blackbox" nature of it, but fact is, you probably have a bottleneck somewhere, possibly you are still using a mechanical hard disk and/or do not have enough RAM for things to load properly. Windows prefetch should help speed things up, given enough RAM, but if you have too little, then it actually might make it worse.

I remember fiddling a lot with Windows services, like prefetch, search indexing. Etc. Basically turning these off will make a slow system feel more responsive. And, of course, Windows update and Windows defender should also be turned off entirely on older systems, because they will constantly pest you with updates and slow the system down. With bloatware added from the computer's manufacturer this only gets worse. Everything unnecessary running in the background should be purged from the system.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by btdmaster on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:38AM (#32436973)
Classic shell is unmaintained, so maybe use this fork: https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by andai on Friday August 12, 2022 @02:13PM (#32442070)
I have an SSD, 16 GB of RAM and the system was freshly installed a few weeks ago.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by JacobSeated on Monday August 15, 2022 @03:52AM (#32466924)
That's extremely strange, because I do not have problems with speed. Perhaps it is something else interfering, a bad driver, or poor support for your paticular system?

Typically things open near instantly for me. But, keep in mind in a VM, things is just horrible slow. Probably even more so if you run Windows 10 from a Linux host OS – I have had a lot of problems with that, and eventually I just gave up, because it was not fast enough for me.

For Windows, it is much, much better to setup dual boot.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by londons_explore on Friday August 12, 2022 @04:59AM (#32436061)
Have you tried just running Windows XP explorer on Windows 10?

It might just run...

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by andai on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:22AM (#32436516)
Yeah, I tried that, and also the one from ReactOS. ReactOS's one at least launches (including the taskbar!) but crashes almost instantly. The XP one seems to heavily depend on various DLL files which no longer work the same way. I tried copying a bunch of them over, solving the error popups one by one but gave up after hitting a brick wall after the 10th DLL or so.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by e12e on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:09AM (#32436784)
> and also the one from ReactOS

Interesting idea, I hadn't thought about ReactOS as a possible source of FOSS programs for windows - but why not? We run Gnu user land various places after all.

Curious about why it crashes. Did you build from source?

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by andai on Friday August 12, 2022 @02:21PM (#32442164)
No, I just copy pasted it from a ReactOS install. Binary compatibility is their goal (WinDbg thinks it's debugging Windows Server 2003, so they did a good job!), but last I heard they have to do some funky stuff in some places to be able to make use of WINE.

Or it could be because of the compatibility: XP's explorer doesn't run on 10, so we shouldn't expect its clone to run either! But I had to try :)

Still, considering it's open source and the closest thing what I do want, starting with this and stripping out the taskbar might get me a good result.

Same with MSPaint: just spent several days trying to get the leaked XP MSPaint to compile, to no avail. Looks like I'd have better luck starting with ReactOS's paint clone and modifying it so it's feature complete and has the original icons :)

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by achn on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:25AM (#32436882)
Make sure your folders are configured for “general” files and not “photos” or other metadata consuming options. I had a similar issue and this resolved it.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by moqster on Friday August 12, 2022 @06:30AM (#32436561)
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by sprremix on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:48PM (#32444326)
I can't attest for its speed, but this seems like the polar opposite of lightweight.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by avryhof on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:06AM (#32436769)
Just tested ReactOS explorer on Win11 and it worked good.

http://www.foxplanet.de/explorer/

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by andai on Friday August 12, 2022 @02:23PM (#32442178)
Thanks, I will try this version, mine did launch but crashed, perhaps I forgot to copy some DLLs.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by rahen on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:50AM (#32436331)
> does anyone know a lightweight Explorer alternative?

PowerShell. It's builtin, uses little resources, is fast, has pattern globbing, autocompletion, and can be as efficient as using the coreutils on *nix.

Unfortunately nnn and Ranger don't work on Windows, and the WSL uses more resources than explorer so this workaround isn't resource efficient. Cygwin is very efficient and could be a better solution to run them, I haven't tried it.

edit: Looks like lf works on Windows: https://github.com/gokcehan/lf

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by nullify88 on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:14AM (#32436803)
Perhaps load up sysinternals Autoruns and see if a particular plugin / DLL is being loaded which is causing the slow downs.
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by medlazik on Friday August 12, 2022 @07:35AM (#32436959)
XYPlorer is fantastic
Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by alok-g on Saturday August 13, 2022 @02:59PM (#32452716)
+1 for XYPlorer. It's powerful, still performant, and heavily configurable.

The free version (discontinued but the last version is available) itself works great.

Re:Windows10Debloater: Script to remove Windows 10 bloatware... by qikInNdOutReply on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:02AM (#32436081)
Total Commander?