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Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by vemv on Thursday July 28, 2022 @07:18AM (#32262858)
If it was, say, a $30000 charge I could give Stripe the benefit of doubt, but $3300 is a pretty ordinary amount for any retailer. Could be e.g. a laptop sale, or three phones?

When I see Stripe's apology here it will not be enough for me - not at least without a detailed blog post / postmortem.

Until/if that moment happens, I'll regard Stripe as an untrustworthy entity and will recommend doing the same to do anyone I do business with.

Zero tolerance for Google-style algo-decisions and stonewalling.

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by metacritic12 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:40AM (#32263499)
What's the OP/your alternative?

Oh Paypal? Look up the horror stories there. Or directly work with a legacy provider like FirstData? They will also freeze your account and won't even accept you if you just have just $3k of sales.

Isn't it interesting that credit card processors really like to give crappy customer support and enjoy freezing accounts? Is it because they just attract misanthropic people? If only a caring company that didn't freeze accounts and gave wonderful support could enter, the field would be better. /s

Actually, the problem is super structural:

- Due to payment processing regulations, there is a fixed overhead from taking a small merchant on. (KYC, AML, ensuring you're not selling drugs). This makes tiny merchants incredibly unprofitable to begin with. Legacy providers like FirstData will reject you outright or make you pay fees to onboard. They will also make you fill out pages of paper forms and put the time cost on you to verify you're a legit business.

We as a society have said the gatekeeping features of finance are more important that making sure tiny businesses have access to payment infrastructure. We should change this parameter if we truly cared about this. I suspect we don't.

- Merchants simply race to the CC provider that is easiest to set up or have lowest fees. If you were OK paying a couple of hundred dollars of setup fees to, you know, properly reimburse your vendor for vetting you, or pay 5% fees for a high risk (read: tiny merchant) specialty account, you probably wouldn't have been frozen like this, at least without them calling you.

This is exactly the problem with Google services. Are you paying Google a bunch of money? If you are a high level enterprise account where the fully-burdened cost of a 1-hour customer support call (~$100) is a small part of your yearly net margin to Google, I bet they would take your call.

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by rshm on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:07AM (#32263758)
> What's the OP/your alternative?

Reach out to local credit unions or even smallish bank. They usually are middleman to firstdata, chase paymentech etc. But you get a dedicated account rep at cost of nominal monthly fee. Rates usually are competitive often lower than what stripe and paypal offers.

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by carom on Thursday July 28, 2022 @02:50PM (#32268625)
Implement it all yourself and have the UI be awful is not a good solution. Stripe takes about 1 day to set up. Getting a meeting with an interested bank or credit union could easily take 1 month.
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by mobiclick on Sunday July 31, 2022 @11:05AM (#32295999)
I'd take a shitty ui over a shiny ui backed by an unpredictable algorithm any day.

That people would prioritize ui and initial setup costs over payment processing reliability is insane to me.

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by sfont on Thursday July 28, 2022 @10:17AM (#32264627)
I am an extremely small account and have a merchant account with Authorize.net. Most of my customers pay by check so I even have some months where I have zero card transactions.

There is a small monthly fee and the processing fee is variable depending on the card. Plain debit/check card under 2%, compared to an airline rewards card that’s more like 4%…

I’m not even eligible for a Stripe account because a large part of my business could be called computer repair and that is explicitly disallowed.

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by peanuty1 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @10:53AM (#32265175)
> What's the OP/your alternative?

Square is one. https://developer.squareup.com/reference/square/payments-api

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by viggity on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:56AM (#32263643)
didn't stripe (maybe it was a competitor, idk) go to a Paypal conference and took like 2000lb blocks of ice with dollar bills frozen in them and drop them off in front of the convention center? And then posted signs everywhere to the effect "tired of paypal freezing your money?"
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by viggity on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:59AM (#32263681)
apparently it wasn't stripe, it was WePay.

FWIW If you want to be able to quickly switch payment providers without stripe (or any provider) holding your customer's payment info hostage, you should consider using a PCI tokenization service like BasisTheory.com

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by icebergonfire on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:16AM (#32263852)
Without taking away from your point, deep in the Reddit comments the OP states Stripe put a hold on the account after billing the sale of a literal company truck through Stripe and not via selling their normal store merchandise.

https://reddit.com/r/smallbusiness/comments/wa1zob/_/ihyq7tl...

As usual, there’s always an undisclosed fact that changes the narrative and explains the ban. Whether this should trigger Stripe’s scorched earth mechanisms is another matter.

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by civilized on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:26AM (#32263963)
Maybe there's more to the story, but executing transactions which do not conform to Stripe's fraud detection model is not an offense that should be punished.
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by dachryn on Thursday July 28, 2022 @11:25AM (#32265607)
no the entire store account should not be blocked, at least not for a first offense, but I could understand that the transaction is blocked, and that it might that quite some time to figure out what is going on
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by DuckyC on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:31AM (#32264029)
I think the fact that a company vehicle was sold for the $3300 hardly matters.
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by leoff on Thursday July 28, 2022 @07:32AM (#32262954)
> When I see Stripe's apology here it will not be enough for me

I'm actually just starting a business using Stripe for handling payments, and this makes me very concerned.

Is there an alternative service one could use? Is there a way not to give these shady companies power to steal all my money?

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by Ayesh on Thursday July 28, 2022 @07:45AM (#32263055)
In a different HN thread that has no or positive reaction to Stripe, you'd be seeing many praises for Stripe.

For local businesses, perhaps your local bank has a better solution? They will be cheaper (if they use networks other than Visa/Master), and often has zero fees when you withdraw money to a bank account.

Here in my country, for a business that only caters to local customers, I pay about 2% for payments with no fixed fee and no fee for withdrawals, which happens daily. I can directly call the person who handles my queries, and charge backs have never been anything but a few quick clicks with no mind games. All I do is redirect the user to the payment page, and validate the payment upon arrival. The UX isn't as good as Stripe of course, but many of the locals are quite used to that UI anyway.

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by Aspos on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:17AM (#32263865)
Don't know what country you are from but guess your acquiring bank gets orders of magnitude less fraud than Stripe does so your bank can afford to take your calls. It boils down to wildly skewed regulatory environment in the US.
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by InitialLastName on Thursday July 28, 2022 @10:23AM (#32264712)
They probably have orders of magnitude less revenue with which to pay customer service agents than Stripe has (or would have, if they hadn't delegated their customer service to the machine in the sky).

We see this in many circumstances: centralization and scale are great for efficiency, but bad for resilience.

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by PeterisP on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:11AM (#32263798)
> Is there an alternative service one could use? Is there a way not to give these shady companies power to steal all my money?

There are many alternative services listed in other comments, but to be clear, every single one of them has the power to do exactly what Stripe did.

There is no way to accept credit card payments without accepting that power to freeze suspicious incoming payments, simply because fundamentally credit card payments are not final and can (and often will) be reversed afterward, and if someone promised to never freeze merchants' funds, every fraudster in the world would come to try out their services, bankrupting them in the process.

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by TimMeade on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:31AM (#32264028)
I'm not sure of the facts on this case and always need to hear both sides fully before i would comment on them.

But; I have run 4 different businesses on stripe over about 6 years and have never had a serious issue. Yes there have been ups and downs but even with no phone number I would have to rate their support head and shoulders above most. Maybe 24-36 hours for a response, but we always got one, and in most cases it solved the issue.

We are still with them.

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by tc313 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:42AM (#32263504)
Just as a counter-anecdote, my one-person SAAS has used Stripe since 2017 and I’ve had an excellent experience with them, including personal customer support. Of course, YMMV.
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by sorenjan on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:13AM (#32263244)
Maybe look at Klarna. This is not an endorsement, I've never worked with them, but as a consumer i like using sites that use them for payment.

https://docs.klarna.com/

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by peanuty1 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @10:52AM (#32265142)
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by pythonic_hell on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:13AM (#32263246)
Checkout Adyen. They’re practically the same.
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by slivanes on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:30AM (#32264015)
You need to do 5,000 transactions or more a month to be considered by Adyen.
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by stef25 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:46AM (#32263543)
Have you compared the backends you get to use as a customer? I'd be surprised if Adyen even comes close to Stripe.

Mollie for one is complete garbage.

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by Huppie on Thursday July 28, 2022 @01:31PM (#32267622)
Imho Adyen is surprisingly good. You should definitely check out their documentation.
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by informalo on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:27AM (#32263374)
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by SyneRyder on Thursday July 28, 2022 @10:38AM (#32264917)
You should always, always, have multiple ways to accept payments. Don't rely on one provider, even if they're the greatest processor in the world. Never have a single point of failure for your business.
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by treszkai on Sunday July 31, 2022 @07:54AM (#32294940)
I'm not an entrepreneur but this approach sounds way too safe to be competitive. IMHO if you're starting a 2-person company then yeah, be bold enough to rely on a single payment provider, and maybe consider redundancy when you have already have a working business with massive reputation.
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by SyneRyder on Sunday July 31, 2022 @08:37AM (#32295102)
Single person company here. It's not hard to do, maybe an extra PHP class that abstracts details of different providers, and a separate class implementation on each provider. But you're right that you wouldn't do it for launch day.

It comes in really, really handy when your tiny 1-person company outlives your giant multinational payment provider. Happened to me a few times now, I'm on to my 3rd (4th?) provider in 20 years. There's a tendency for Borg-like consolidation in the payments industry (eg Avangate acquired 2Checkout, then were bought by Verifone). Anyone who lived through the Digital River era will know what I mean.

If you haven't done that code abstraction, imagine that you're suddenly unable to take any payments or make any sales and you are unable to do so until you rewrite all your payment processing code. That can be a long outage.

Having a backup is also useful when a customer's card gets declined by an overly zealous fraud screen at one provider. You can give that customer a "promocode" that changes the logic of your checkout flow and redirects processing to a different payment processor.

And having different processors active also lets you add different payment options (eg maybe your primary processor doesn't support Alipay or Pay With Amazon). But in practice that turned out not to be a good reason for me, Paypal/Visa/MC/Amex/Optima covered almost 100% of customers anyway. For the tiny handful that use checks I can handle that manually.

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by alex_suzuki on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:18AM (#32263299)
Maybe check out Paddle. I’m not affiliated in any way.
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by vxxzy on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:02AM (#32263173)
Check out PastePay. Great service and a human touch! https://www.pastepay.com
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by bennyp101 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:09AM (#32263775)
Bit of a bug in your page redirects

curl https://www.pastepay.com

<meta http-equiv="refresh" content="0;URL=https://www.pastepay.com/industry/international-merchants">

curl https://www.pastepay.com/industry/international-merchants

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//IETF//DTD HTML 2.0//EN"> <html><head> <title>302 Found</title> </head><body> <h1>Found</h1> <p>The document has moved <a href="https://www.pastepay.com/">here</a>.</p> </body></html>

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by vxxzy on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:33AM (#32264058)
It’s fixed! There was an issue handling request from international clients.
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by vxxzy on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:15AM (#32263842)
Thanks! Yeah that is not in the page. Not sure how that is getting prepended. I’ll send to support!
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by mtlynch on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:59AM (#32263682)
Based on your other comment,[0] it sounds like you work for PastePay, which you should disclose if you're publicly endorsing them.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32263465

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by vxxzy on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:07AM (#32263761)
Oh no! I am sooo sorry. I don’t “directly” work for PastPay but I do work for their sister company. Thank you for letting me know for the future!
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by groffee on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:23AM (#32263344)
On Firefox page is just going into an infinite loop.
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by vxxzy on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:37AM (#32263465)
Strange!? Any chance you could send me request headers you are receiving?
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by radiojasper on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:25AM (#32263363)
Can confirm! Same here with my Firefox on Windows 10.
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by thirdvect0r on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:29AM (#32263393)
Happening on FF, Chrome and Edge for me
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by enlyth on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:27AM (#32263380)
Same on Edge/Chromium
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by mmikeff on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:43AM (#32263519)
And Safari on MacOS
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by TimCTRL on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:53AM (#32263620)
Same on Chrome 103
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by DebtDeflation on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:37AM (#32263466)
Flagging a larger than normal transaction is fine. Placing a 120 day hold is very much NOT fine. This should be resolvable within 24-48 hours after the business provides the requisite documentation showing the transaction to be legitimate. The root cause is a completely automated process devoid of any capability for human review like we see with so many online platforms these days.
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by ceejayoz on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:07AM (#32263755)
Documentation can be faked, and 120 days wasn't picked randomly; customers have that long to dispute charges.
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by sgc on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:51AM (#32264269)
It is a tiny amount of money comparatively speaking. They should not put a freeze over a couple of days. If there is no dispute, then their risk drops exponentially. If the amount were much higher, they should just devote more human resources to verifying the charge, and still keep the frozen period low.
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by ceejayoz on Thursday July 28, 2022 @10:17AM (#32264634)
> It is a tiny amount of money comparatively speaking.

It's hardly the only charge of this nature.

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by patmcc on Thursday July 28, 2022 @12:36PM (#32266687)
>>>but $3300 is a pretty ordinary amount for any retailer.

Really? There are entire classes of retailers where that would be a truly exceptional event. I don't know if that's true of the OP (post removed), but if their average transaction is $27 or something this would rightly trigger alarm bells. If they are in fact being stonewalled on support that's pretty inexcusable though.

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by Spivak on Thursday July 28, 2022 @03:43PM (#32269241)
It honestly seems like it would have been fine if they had been like "you tripped our fraud detection, and because the payment was made with a CC money will be held in escrow until the dispute period ends. There's no point in providing documentation because customer can still issue a chargeback."
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by patmcc on Thursday July 28, 2022 @04:37PM (#32269809)
I don't really disagree, except I think there are a couple different types of fraud Stripe might be on the lookout for in these types of cases:

1. Customer of retailer buys something with stolen cc, retailer is none the wiser, although Stripe has sophisticated techniques that suggest it might be fraud. Probably looks like a very ordinary transaction. e.g. person filling up gas tank with stolen card.

2. Accomplice of retailer buys something with "stolen" cc, retailer in on it. Probably looks like unusual transaction. e.g. person buying 10 laptops, reselling for cash, waiting until retailer gets money from Stripe, does a chargeback, retailer disappears, they split all the cash.

If it's the first case, sure, tell the retailer. If it's the second (or it could be the second, which I think is what might be the case here), you probably maintain radio silence while you investigate.

Edit: also, by all the documentation the OP wants to provide, it sounds like they understand why it could look like the second. If it's the first they should understand there's nothing they can provide that would suggest it's not a stolen card - it has very little to do with them.

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by wernercd on Thursday July 28, 2022 @12:35PM (#32266670)
> not at least without a detailed blog post / postmortem.

Can they legally give that considering its, most likely, private customer information? If they give detailed information out in a "Detailed" post mortem... isn't that proof that they are an untrustworthy entity?

Just seems to me this is a damned if you do, damned if you don't attitude against Stripe (or, any company in general that has a complaint but can't do a "detailed" public response because, well, that's private information... .. . )

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by PeterisP on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:03AM (#32263720)
All the alternative entities will also sometimes freeze funds for incoming credit card payments due to some algo-decision flagging them. Both fraud and such anti-fraud measures are an unavoidable part of the credit card infrastructure.

The major difference is that some platforms offer more hand-holding support and some don't, but even those who will talk to you (e.g. your local bank) can and sometimes will refuse unblocking such funds for a prolonged time.

Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by neurostimulant on Thursday July 28, 2022 @06:24PM (#32270797)
They seem to be using stripe to process transactions for a cell phone stores, but the $3300 transaction is for selling a van. I guess this tripped some fraud prevention system.
Re:TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small ... by w4ffl35 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @07:29AM (#32262933)
i will be keeping all of this in mind the next time im making payment processing decisions for small businesses.