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Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by cecilpl2 on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:09PM (#31940435)
Cities cannot easily be "redesigned". Infrastructure exists and you can't just refactor neighborhoods like software.

Autonomous vehicles are an enormous market and well worth the investment.

Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by picture on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:11PM (#31940464)
Except, you sorta can. See "superblocks" in places like Barcelona
Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by ryukafalz on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:19PM (#31940529)
Right. You can make huge impacts with comparatively very small changes to the built environment.

It’s the “MVP” of city design. :)

Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by fastball on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:14PM (#31940499)
Barcelona is laid out entirely differently from almost every American city.

What's a superblock in Houston gonna do?

Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by dopidopHN on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:18PM (#31940521)
It’s not easy, for sure.

But it has been done. It’s a matter of will. Not saying it’s de facto a good idea. But cities can be refactored. See : Haussmann.

Are you from the US? I find the kind of passive statement about the state of systems prevalent here. ( be it public transportation, internet infrastructure, political framework )

I start to doubt the capacity of this country to adapt.

Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by asdff on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:19PM (#31940531)
Sometimes the market is not worth existing if it harms the planet. And most cities were actually designed for streetcar lines in the U.S., that includes all the big ones in California too. We just need to reengage that, and do simple things like give the existing bus networks signal preemption and their own lanes. Plus considering most car trips are under 5 miles and california has good weather, it makes no sense why there shouldn't be bike lanes absolutely everywhere and the majority of journeys done on bike or ebike.
Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by djbusby on Thursday June 30, 2022 @09:09PM (#31940866)
Some cities even started out with a bunch of street-cars then tore out all the lines (for cars!) rather than expand existing rail - looking at you Seattle
Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by dskrvk on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:23PM (#31941479)
Philly did this too, though in the recent years the city started bringing some lines back. Heck, when the full tram network was around a 100 years ago, it could take you pretty far out into the suburbs, while today you either have to take the train which comes every 30-60 minutes or drive.
Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by quartesixte on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:24PM (#31940573)
Streetcars would be an amazing God send to LA. Would love to have them back.
Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by asdff on Friday July 01, 2022 @12:55AM (#31942539)
Honestly the bus network in LA is great as far as US cities are concerned. Great coverage, but hampered by sharing the grade with cars and waiting at red lights. All it would take is a can of paint for a bus lane and the same signal preemption enjoyed by police cars looking to run a red. No new technology is required or great investment beyond that.
Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by astrange on Thursday June 30, 2022 @11:13PM (#31941866)
Those largely died out because they were run by private operators, but the government then decided to make them cheaper by imposing price controls, and then didn't "nationalize" them when they ran out of business and died.

(The common story is they were bought up and shut down by car companies, but that's a myth afaik.)

Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by astrange on Thursday June 30, 2022 @11:14PM (#31941874)
Dutch cities looked a lot more like American cities pretty recently, and American cities were full of smog pretty recently too. You can change a lot in a decade or three.
Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by ryukafalz on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:16PM (#31940510)
> Cities cannot easily be "redesigned".

Tell that to Jersey City:

https://youtu.be/1mC1l8L5aBA

Transport infrastructure in cities absolutely can be redesigned quickly, if you’re willing to take a quick and dirty approach in the short term. Which is usually enough when it comes to influencing people’s behavior; it doesn’t have to be perfect, it just has to be functional and feel safe.

Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by bko on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:25PM (#31940580)
You're talking about adding bike lanes. That's cool I guess but you still need a car for every day life. Not everyone is a young single person that can just go to a food co-op every few days, throw some organic produce in their backpack and ride home.
Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by ben-schaaf on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:55PM (#31940766)
> Not everyone is a young single person that can just go to a food co-op every few days, throw some organic produce in their backpack and ride home.

In places with good bicycle infrastructure like the Netherlands pretty much everyone cycles (93% cycle at least once per week). In fact the mode share for bicycles is lowest in the 30-40 age range with the 2nd highest being 65 and up - highest is under 18. The biggest use for cycling is shopping (22%). http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2011/02/who-cycles-in-n...

Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by jen20 on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:30PM (#31941522)
I lived in Jersey City for quite some time without a car, and had absolutely no issues with every day life. On the occasion one was needed, Uber sufficed perfectly well.
Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by bogomipz on Thursday June 30, 2022 @09:46PM (#31941173)
Sure they can and do. Here are 10 pedestrian-friendly redesigns from the last 10 years in one of the largest and densest cities in the world:

https://www.6sqft.com/before-after-10-nyc-blocks-and-enclave...

and a few more examples here, with the designer talking about the process:

https://www.wired.com/video/watch/wired-news-and-science-str...

Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by kiba on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:12PM (#31940477)
AI is an extremely difficult challenge imposed by the current constraint. Change the constraint, then you don't need an AI to drive cars.
Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by munchenphile on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:43PM (#31940687)
Yep, this is the plain reality.

Self driving cars just feels like a bunch of engineers wanting to solve a really hard and really interesting problem. But is it really the right problem to solve? I don’t think so. Currently we have:

>other unpredictable human-driven vehicles on the road

>no sensors or passive/active guides in the physical infrastructure — guidance is completely determined onboard

>no signage designed for CV — everything written in plain English, so you have to waste compute on object detection and OCR. And, you have a constant and unending need to collect mapping data

>no vehicle-to-vehicle communication whatsoever

Design the roads and signage for self driving cars, enforce an industry-wide V2V standard with NHTSA, and start small in some test areas that only allow other vehicles that are part of the botnet (perhaps not necessarily self-driving, but at least part of the V2V network). That’s a reasonable problem space. The current one is unworkable — the models won’t converge and they’ll never make it out of “beta”.

Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by nradov on Thursday June 30, 2022 @11:02PM (#31941789)
So you intend to ban bicycles from those areas? Because bikes are never going to have reliable V2V communication.
Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by jonnycomputer on Thursday June 30, 2022 @09:39PM (#31941114)
Sometimes you can't even refactor software like they do neighborhoods.
Re:Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Fran... by foobarian on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:15PM (#31940506)
I mean refactoring production software is no easy feat either