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Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by iandanforth on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:05PM (#31744409)
I'm surprised that Amazon doesn't own apartment complexes. Build a multi-level basement as a fulfillment warehouse, then stack housing on top. The housing would have 10 minute delivery and be a great way to further accustom people to Amazon being the place to get everything.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by yuliyp on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:23PM (#31745536)
That sounds awful. An apartment where you have semis pulling up at all hours delivering cargo? This is why we have zoning laws to avoid people building warehouses in residential districts.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by Dyac on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:47PM (#31745841)
How is this really that different from city centre multi use buildings where there are stores on the ground floor and living space on the upper floors? Especially if some of those are served by gig-economy delivery couriers.

Those stores get stocked somehow- usually not by semis.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by hetspookjee on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @05:03PM (#31746057)
I think you underestimate the traffic a warehouse gets versus stores in the ground. Also recently in the Netherlands they’ve decided that the 10min delivery grocery stores are actually distribution centres and are no longer allowed to set up shop in the housing areas, because of the excessive amount of truck traffic.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by spockz on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @05:30PM (#31746332)
It wasn’t the truck traffic only. It was also the activity at all hours. Plus the deliverers on their bikes making lots of noise. Plus these stores being boarded off or closed becoming very ugly and shady.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by yread on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @06:31PM (#31746854)
Plus bored drivers being a noisy nuisance and starting fights with residents
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by mschuster91 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:55AM (#31749920)
That should be a matter for local government regulation or workplace safety authorities - a company should not be able to not provide adequate break rooms for their staff.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by asdff on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:02AM (#31749614)
It probably wouldn't be a full amazon warehouse. It would probably be no more traffic than having a Target on the ground floor of your apartment, which is increasingly a common thing.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by MichaelZuo on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @11:07PM (#31748681)
The most charitable reading of your comment implies you’ve never visited a large scale warehouse and/or mixed used buildings.

Surely you don’t actually believe the lack of a difference?

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by Spooky23 on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @05:41PM (#31746430)
A distribution center generates hundreds of truck trips a day. A good sized supermarket generates ~15 a week, but may vary based on the company and methodology.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by shiftpgdn on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:33PM (#31745659)
Denying mixed use because it might be noisy for hypothetical residents is how we wound up with the current disaster that is American urban/suburban planning
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by Dyac on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:53PM (#31745919)
Are mixed use buildings a problem? I thought the normal problem in America was that zoning tends to prohibit mixing uselage types.

Here [0] is a random street i picked in Paris with mixed use buildings - looks pretty nice tbh-lots of accommodation & amenities, easily walkable, some shops and restaurants.

[0] 61 rue de Passy https://maps.app.goo.gl/14Kxyd9SwARyT79s8

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by shiftpgdn on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @06:11PM (#31746679)
My point was that denying mixed use is what creates the American suburbanization mess. Most cities have limits on delivery hours anyway, making the parent comments concern moot.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by tomjakubowski on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @07:26PM (#31747282)
Which cities restrict the hours when _warehouses_ can accept or dispatch deliveries? I've never heard of that. Don't many warehouses operate around the clock?
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by adolph on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @05:50PM (#31746503)
It'd be funny to take that picture and redo the neighborhood a la "Microsoft Re-Designs the iPod Packaging" [0].

  1. Straighten out that street
  2. Repave those cobbles
  3. Add green lane bike path
  4. Parking meters
  5. ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by taylorius on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @05:09PM (#31746136)
Mixed use is a winner in urban environments. London has a lot of it, and it makes for good, local living.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by yuliyp on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @05:55PM (#31746548)
Mixed use is not a problem as long as the uses are compatible, shops and housing work well together. Industrial and residential not so much.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by kwhitefoot on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @06:25PM (#31746803)
BMW's Mini pressing plant (formerly Pressed Steel) is in my home town, Swindon, it's surrounded on three sides by housing and the fourth by a road that has houses on the opposite side.

I don't think it inconveniences anyone.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by yuliyp on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @08:30PM (#31747775)
I'm assuming you're referring to https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5715534,-1.7418073,1186a,35y... ? It looks like there is heavy use of lots of trees to mostly separate it from the housing. It also seems generally to be part of a broader industrial section that is served by freight rail and is relatively nearby to expressway to help minimize the traffic. You are right there are some homes, especially south of the plant, but I think that this example proves how work needs to be done to ensure how industry and residential can coexist in harmony.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by kwhitefoot on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:10AM (#31749992)
Yes of course one has to work at it to get it right.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by alexb_ on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @01:53AM (#31749567)
You know what's inconvenient? Having to live in a homeless camp because rent is so high due to zoning laws like this.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by globalise83 on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @05:00PM (#31746021)
If they build the towers tall enough, or put in only minimal windows, then only the lower floors will be inconvenienced. These floors can be reserved for the Amazon workers. /s
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by colinsane on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:38PM (#31745728)
i think the ordering matters a lot: warehouse added to residential space: NO. apartment added to an industrial space: okay. people will put up with a lot of noise (e.g. those who live under a flight path near the airport), just so long as they knew what they were signing up for.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by supertrope on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @05:20PM (#31746244)
People will buy houses next to an arena, airport, or pig farm and then complain about the noise, traffic, or smell.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by agilob on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:25PM (#31745555)
Surely Amazon can buy some local regulators, just think about how many low paid jobs this would bring!
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by supertrope on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @05:13PM (#31746170)
Smarter politicians will refuse to bend over backwards for new employers who offer low wage jobs, set up enterprises that can be easily relocated when the tax credits expire, and don’t offer anything special.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by ianai on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:35PM (#31745695)
With how short Amazon tenures are, shouldn't they be hotels at the top?
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by memish on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:47PM (#31745842)
I tend to agree, although if it costs less to rent and have 10 minute Amazon delivery? I might go for it. I've lived next to train lines and highways that are louder.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by tomjakubowski on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @07:29PM (#31747299)
I agree it sounds awful - bad enough that people would naturally avoid living there even without zoning.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by idlehand on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @05:08PM (#31746134)
Those semis are going to be a lot quieter in coming decades when they go electric.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by oblio on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @05:40PM (#31746425)
Do you have numbers of that? Tires and drag cause a lot of noise.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by eunos on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:04AM (#31750643)
Sounds like an incentive to accelerate development of electric truck.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by ajkjk on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:17PM (#31744586)
Basements are by far the most expensive parts of apartment building. It's one of the reasons that reducing parking requirements for apartment buildings is a good way to make housing more cost-effective to build and therefore to increase housing supply (last I heard).
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by SoftTalker on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @06:11PM (#31746681)
Yeah but parking above ground is probably cheaper than building out apartments. I've lived in buildings where the first 6 or 8 floors were parking. And a parking space rented for several hundred a month, on top of your apartment rent.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by smachiz on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:01PM (#31745267)
expensive to build, but less desirable for anyone (but parking) so there's no incentive to build much. It will definitely be more expensive than a warehouse 45 minutes away - even in the most expensive cities (where they do build basements to the extent that they can before they hit subways and whatever).
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by schnevets on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:04PM (#31745299)
In addition to the drawbacks outlined in other responses, human living situations are too unpredictable to make that kind of arrangement desirable. Inevitably, there will be a plumbing issue because someone left a bath running, or a medical emergency causes unforeseen traffic challenges, or a fire breaks out.

The more delivery productivity you stack on top of this infrastructure, the bigger the impact from an unforeseen issue... and humans can introduce a lot of unforeseen issues.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by G3nnaro on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:12PM (#31744507)
Amazons already building apartments at HQ2 and I believe Seattle as well - https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/26/22593871/amazon-key-for-b...

Amazon can't build apartment complexes on top of their warehouses because many of their warehouses are already 3 or 4 floors, and the obvious zoning issues of building complexes in the middle of nowhere with a bunch of other warehouses.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by bcx on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:13PM (#31744525)
Or even better they could continue to vertically integrate their stack and provide affordable housing to warehouse employees.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by DesiLurker on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:19PM (#31744614)
also maybe install nets around the joint building, you know for safety.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by trevcanhuman on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:19PM (#31745492)
ah yes, just like in Asia
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by kevmo on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:51PM (#31745096)
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by agilob on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:24PM (#31745541)
Will Amazon Prime include affordable housing?
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by politician on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:42PM (#31744961)
So dystopian. You can imagine the vending machine kiosk on the first floor— no, the Alexa built into every unit- that’s ready to deliver anything you wish, and accept your rent payment.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by lancesells on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:51PM (#31745101)
Might as well just house employees there as well and take the rent directly out of their paychecks.

Frighteningly they have almost 1 million employees in the US, which is more than the population of a handful of states.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by plasticchris on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:33PM (#31745662)
I wonder what the tax treatment would be - I think company housing might not be taxed as income in this case (on prem, required to work there, etc), allowing them to pay much lower effective rates for labor by baking the cost of housing into a paycheck and pocketing the tax savings.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by onphonenow on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @07:05PM (#31747091)
Correct, employer provided housing not taxed in certain cases, so you get some massive tax savings this way. Be interesting to see what argument amazon might make. Needs to be:

* The housing is provided on the property owned by the business or employer. * The housing is provided for the convenience of the employer. * The employee must accept housing as a condition of employment.

Intended more for folks like on-call firefighters living in a firehouse or a park ranger who is required to live in a cabin in a park or nanny's staying with their family. I could see some situations amazon might have an argument to make - they could probably do micro-units or shared housing / dorm style housing for workers and save massively on labor costs especially in high cost urban areas where folks would otherwise never be able to afford a place.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by longtimelistnr on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:43PM (#31745794)
There’s not a fucking chance that’s legal
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by zdragnar on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @05:23PM (#31746267)
Employee benefits are routinely taxed differently. Health insurance, 401ks, some meals, etc.

Most likely, it'd be considered a "fringe benefit" and the employee would still have W2 / income taxes and withholdings on it. How municipalities would tax the property value depends entirely on how they choose to tax on-site housing (as it is technically both commercial and residential space).

Maintenance on the buildings would likely be partially deductible as operating expenses, no different than any other building operated by a landlord or business.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by dboreham on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:23AM (#31750764)
The illegal aspect only pertains to doing something like this and not paying relevant taxes. Companies have been providing their employees housing for hundreds of years. Trump Org was perfectly free to provide employees apartments, provided appropriate tax filings and payments were made.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by missedthecue on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:47PM (#31745033)
Hmm. I guess one man's dystopia is another man's utopia.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by politician on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:59PM (#31745228)
Alexa: Wake up. It’s time to head to your shift.

missedthecue: Snooze

Alexa: Snooze boost activated for 10 minutes. $5 has been deducted from your account.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by int_19h on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @08:58PM (#31747936)
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by alexb_ on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:10AM (#31749661)
This guy looks to be a doomer in the most literal sense, but this story is a fun read. Thanks for sharing it!
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by int_19h on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:13PM (#31756967)
Note that this was originally written in 2003!
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by abnercoimbre on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:11AM (#31750349)
I'm hooked. HN comments like these are hidden gems.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by jawmes8 on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:52PM (#31745123)
> Hmm. I guess one man's dystopia is another man's utopia.

That does seem true for most sci-fi stories!

I would think the dystopian aspect is lack of entry for smaller businesses to reach those potential customers

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by tyingq on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:00PM (#31745237)
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by User23 on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @06:26PM (#31746813)
I used to joke that Amazon should buy up the housing in SLU and then between Amazon sales and rent they'd get 90% of their costs of employment back as revenue.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by outside1234 on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:23PM (#31744685)
They could have everyone work in the basement for at 4% discount on rent too. Great stuff - totally not dystopian at all.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by Vladimof on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @08:40PM (#31747832)
Would they have anti-suicide nets like Chinese factories?
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by larsiusprime on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @08:43PM (#31747848)
Zoning makes mixed-use development illegal in most places in any case
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by itslennysfault on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @09:41PM (#31748181)
This is why zoning exists, and thank god it does.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by paxys on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:33PM (#31745667)
Zoning laws exist
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by wronglyprepaid on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:14PM (#31744534)
I don't live in US, and there is no amazon specifically catering to the country I live in, but my experience with Amazon as a shop has been that it is a really bad user interface, with crappy search, filled with a bunch of questionable "spam" products.

I wonder if this is the case in US also, or maybe just my individual experience. It is very hard for me to get how a company so successful has such a crappy flagship product.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by wincy on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:41PM (#31744955)
It’s really nice for my 3D printing hobby since most of the brands I’m buying are based in China or Europe (mostly China). They send over a shipping container of printers and Amazon handles fulfillment so I get the stuff in a few days instead of waiting 45 days and pay $100 shipping to get a 20 pound device delivered. They also have all the replacement parts and stuff in their warehouses.

Also, their returns process is painless. I thought I’d support local workers and had been shopping at Hobby Lobby instead of using Amazon. For my trouble, when I tried to return an airbrush that didn’t suit my needs (I used it once) they treated me like a criminal, it was a whole production.

With Amazon I just head to the Whole Foods down the street (or Kohls sometimes?), return it, and get credited almost instantly.

I do think Walmart is putting a lot of effort into their online offerings and if you can return online purchases in store that’d be a huge win. We bought my wife’s MacBook Air off Walmart’s online store and it was super convenient.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by bko on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:02PM (#31745271)
> Also, their returns process is painless. I thought I’d support local workers and had been shopping at Hobby Lobby instead of using Amazon. For my trouble, when I tried to return an airbrush that didn’t suit my needs (I used it once) they treated me like a criminal, it was a whole production.

I had the same experience. I ordered a $70 worth of cleaning supplies directly from the manufacturer, thinking I'd support the brand and cut out the middle man. My package was stolen (box opened and left right there) so we contacted the seller and told them the situation and they said they can't do anything about it, even with a police report. Amazon would have refunded it immediately. Half the time when I return something they even let me keep the item and donate it rather than dealing with the return.

I want to support smaller online retailers but not so bad that I'm okay with getting ripped off with no recourse every once in a while.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by c22 on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @06:15PM (#31746711)
The fact that they can afford to take a loss on many returns while their smaller competitors cannot kind of implies you're getting ripped off in some other way, doesn't it?

Where does the money to pay for your stolen cleaning supplies come from? Why would you even think to contact the manufacturer about this? Why not the shipping company? Or your building's management? I've fumbled a soda and broken it on the ground right after checking out and the grocer replaced it for free, but I recognized this as a generous act of kindness and not an expected baseline of customer service. I've also lost a soda in the parking lot and I can't even imagine feeling entitled enough to go back into the store to complain about it.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by kalleboo on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @06:00AM (#31750970)
> Why not the shipping company?

Typically, the recipient can't make a claim with a shipping company as they're not the customer, only the shipper (seller) can

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by c22 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @06:34AM (#31751121)
This may be true, but as an argument it kind of misses the forest, don't you think?
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by xxpor on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @06:01PM (#31746604)
Hobby Lobby is owned by some of the biggest pieces of shit in the entire country, so I'm not shocked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burwell_v._Hobby_Lobby_Stores,....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby_Lobby_smuggling_scandal

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by smachiz on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:59PM (#31745236)
Hobby Lobby is also an awful company... and is by no means "buying local".
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by missedthecue on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:43PM (#31744976)
Never once in my history of ordering on Amazon have I received a fake, spam, or bait-and-switch product.

I have deliberately purchased non-name brand products, and sometimes I have received defective products, as one would shopping anywhere, but even then Amazon's customer services and return process is second to none. It shocks me that everyone on HN and other popular forums has very little success buying on Amazon.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by Retric on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:08PM (#31745358)
5 of my last 7 items ordered from Amazon where either fake or defective.

I don’t care how easy Amazon’s returns are, it’s not worth the hassle of not having the item let alone doing anything above and beyond that.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by JoshCole on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @05:36PM (#31746387)
Weird.

I've had a defect rate of less than 1% percent with a sample size of enough items to reduce the margin of error on that statistic to something rather negligible.

To get your configuration you need to have two items that aren't defective and five items that are.

P(!defect)^2P(defect)^5 = 0.99^20.01^5 = 9.801e-11

There are seven choose five ways you could have a particular configuration where you have five defects out of seven purchases.

7 Choose 5 = 21

So therefore the probability of what happened to you happening to me would seem to be:

9.801e-11 * 21 = 2.05821e-9

This written out in numbers is: 0.00000000205821 That number as a percentage is: 00.000000205821% For comparison the probability of being struck by lighting over the course of a person's life is 1-in-15,300 which is 0.00006535947. Many people struggle with reading really small numbers like that and so we often decide to round. If we do that the probability of what happened to you happening to me is roughly 0% if we choose to round at six decimal places. Seconding the OP claim that the general experience is shocking, because it is extremely divergent. It would be more shocking to be hearing everyone on Hacker News was regularly being hit by lightning bolts than that people are getting your defect rate.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by Retric on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @05:58PM (#31746580)
When you see a result like that it’s a good idea to check your assumptions.

That calculation assumes these probabilities are independent when they aren’t. What was ordered, when it was ordered, and where it’s being shipped to are all likely to impact the odds. On top of that are ability to detect fakes and defective items are likely to be different.

Having said that, I have been hit by lighting. Or at least it stuck the car I was in and I felt some effects. I didn’t report it anywhere that records such strikes, which suggests non serious lightning strikes may be underestimated in those statistics.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by leetcrew on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @12:47AM (#31749219)
> What was ordered, when it was ordered, and where it’s being shipped to are all likely to impact the odds.

given the wildly diverging experiences people report, this is my assumption also. at least to my knowledge, I've never received a counterfeit item from amazon, but there are also certain things I avoid buying. for example, I would probably not buy lipo cells, especially not from a third-party merchant. they are trivial to rewrap and poor QC can literally start fires.

would you mind sharing what kinds of things (or just categories of things) you are buying to see such a high rate of counterfeits?

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by filoleg on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:27PM (#31745582)
Same. The only category of products where I've personally encountered a fake was SD cards, and that's a large problem everywhere online. That's the only thing i buy now directly from manufacturer-authorized retailers. Idk if that's even common, because I've only gotten a fake once out of many times i ordered sd cards.

Everything else? I've been buying all sorts of stuff from amazon, from electronics/hardware to clothing to furniture to almost anything you can think of, and not once was it fake. Before anyone asks how I know they weren't fake, most of them came with a "register on the manufacturer's website to get extended warranty/extra stuff" unique serial number, and i was able to do so just fine. Ofc that doesn't apply to everything I bought, because not every product allows registering itself on manufacturer's website. But for those that don't, I haven't noticed a single sign of fake/counterfeit items.

Ofc this is all just anecdata and isn't an evidence of anything. But i gotta say, as others have mentioned, their extremely easy and efficient return process definitely makes my decision-making efforts much easier.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by joe5150 on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:26PM (#31745578)
I get plenty from Amazon but there are whole categories of products I won't buy there because of poor confidence that I'll receive a genuine product.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by cryptoz on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:47PM (#31745026)
Are you sure you haven't received a fake product? How do you know? The fakes are so good much of the time that you may never know if you have received a fake.

I have received 5+ fake products and stopped ordering on Amazon a few years ago. Not worth it, too much risk. Would never, ever, order food from there, or anything you put on your body, or anything electronic, etc. Way too risky.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by ipaddr on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:05PM (#31745307)
If it is a fake and you cannot tell the difference maybe it doesn't matter.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by joe5150 on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:17PM (#31745466)
The (legitimate) manufacturer will be able to tell the difference and won't service or provide support for counterfeits. And warranty claims are obviously out of the question.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by matsemann on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @05:11PM (#31746151)
It matters when it catches fire because they saved a few cents skipping some failsafe in the power supply.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by abawany on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @05:21PM (#31746254)
You are right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSE_Nm7pAw4 - this video from bigclivedotcom shows the unique failure of a usb-c power supply that also took out a MS Surface and associated monitor with it.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by Supermancho on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @07:59PM (#31747558)
> Never once in my history of ordering on Amazon have I received a fake, spam, or bait-and-switch product

My wife and I both have. It's likely that there's a buying pattern you have that's been very lucky. If you want to assume that millions of people are lying, there's nothing more to talk about. I would suggest trying to buy parts for anything on amazon to see the inaccuracies + bait & switch behaviors.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by blobbers on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:22PM (#31744679)
It has a medium level of spam, but if you stick to name brands sold by amazon, you generally get what you pay for.

It's replaced the department store, and usually has better service / return policy than a department store (Target etc.).

Costco might be the exception but generally I don't go to costco to search for a specific product. They either have some general version of a product, and if I'm willing to buy that I will; swim goggles for example. Perhaps I want TYR swim goggles. Costco will have better pricing on Speedo goggles but won't sell the TYR mirrored version I'm looking for. Click, bought on amazon, arrives next day.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by nonameiguess on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:33PM (#31744850)
The flagship product is the logistical operation and it is pretty damn far from crappy. I can't speak for everywhere, but at least in most parts of the US, they can get you damn near anything on the same day. For products where you already know what you want in terms of brand, seller, and quantity, or regular recurring purchases of staple goods (cat litter, paper towels, dish soap, anything undifferentiated that you need to repeatedly purchase), even groceries now thanks to buying Whole Foods (provided you have the upscale price point that makes you willing to shop there to begin with), it's about as perfect an interface as you could hope for. Find and click in under a minute and you can probably have most goods in a few hours, at most next day.

If you're trying to discover new products of unknown quality and reputation, then it's not so good. For whatever reason, that seems to be the use case people focus on when criticizing Amazon on Hacker News, but I don't see how that can possibly be the dominant use case. Most of what people ever buy is not something brand new to them that they know nothing about.

I'm looking through my last several months of purchases here, and I'm seeing a bunch of automotive cleaning fluids, mostly from Adam's, polishing compounds and a respirator from 3M, a bunch of power tools from DeWalt, a Bose speaker. Known brands from reputable sellers, every item what I wanted and it got here quickly. In some cases, I either tried to or had to purchase elsewhere. For instance, Amazon had most of the DeWalt power tools I wanted, but was out of stock on rotary polishers, so I had to get it from some place called Acme Tools, and it took a week and a half. Amazon got me everything the next day. (I had a bunch of stuff stolen from my garage is why I needed all this at around the same time.) I tried to purchase the Bose speaker from Best Buy since I have one a five minute drive from me, and their website claimed it was in stock and I could pick it up the same day, but then right before the pick up window, they texted me to inform me they didn't actually have it and wouldn't for another week. So I canceled the order, went on Amazon, and they had free same day delivery.

It should be obvious that anything that goes from not existing 25 years ago to top five market cap company in the world is probably offering value somehow.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by notriddle on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @06:26PM (#31746817)
> If you're trying to discover new products of unknown quality and reputation, then it's not so good. For whatever reason, that seems to be the use case people focus on when criticizing Amazon on Hacker News, but I don't see how that can possibly be the dominant use case. Most of what people ever buy is not something brand new to them that they know nothing about.

First of all, HN is full of entrepreneurs and wannabe entrepreneurs. A storefront that can't sell anything that doesn't have a good reputation outside the storefront is bad for small businesses, because nobody is willing to try anything new. A major part of the value proposition of a storefront is that the owners will vet the products they sell for a minimum standard of quality: it's not necessarily great, because greatness is subjective, but the food shouldn't poison you[1] and the AC/DC power converters shouldn't catch fire.

The second problem is that sellers will pass off counterfeit goods as being from major manufacturers when they aren't. I know I'm falling for selection bias, since I've probably bought counterfeit goods without knowing it, but that's not even really the point. The point is that I've bought stuff on Amazon that just didn't work, sold in packaging that's identical to stuff I've bought before that did work. I knew they were counterfeit and not just duds because the actual product didn't have the branding on it that genuine ones always have.

[1]: Well, okay, it might poison you if you have a special allergy. But anything with the common allergens like gluten or lactose will have labels.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by wronglyprepaid on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @05:35PM (#31746374)
> It should be obvious that anything that goes from not existing 25 years ago to top five market cap company in the world is probably offering value somehow.

That is very true, I think probably from the outside looking in it was hard to see what value they were offering. But from the responses here I think I got a better picture of what people get out of it that makes it the best choice for them most of the time.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by bergenty on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:40PM (#31744943)
Amazon has stunning logistics. I’ve almost never received anything late over the last 10 years and if there’s anything wrong with the product they just refund my money. There is some spam that’s unavoidable with opening up the platform to third party sellers but I think it works very well overall.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by renewiltord on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:52PM (#31745116)
Amazon is one of the most trusted brands in America. It is almost as trusted as USPS (the top trusted brand) and is, in general, considered by most Americans to be a reliable, safe, and high-performance source of goods.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by usrn on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:07PM (#31745339)
I hate Amazon as much as the next guy but IME international Amazon and US Amazon are completely different things and aren't really comparable, they just have a similar GUI. US Amazon has nearly any consumer product you'll buy (from most food up to really expensive stuff like small boats and sheds) and almost all of it shows up in 1-2 days with minimal shipping cost.

I know people in Canada and it's nothing like that. What you can find is crazy expensive and it it takes weeks to ship.

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by Mezzie on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @05:51PM (#31746509)
I'm an American, but I did my graduate degree in Canada, and the difference was so extreme I (and others) would just get stuff shipped to the border and go pick it up.
Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by xlix on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @05:42PM (#31746437)
I have had friends receive items like candles already used or paint brushes already used.

I've been duped into buying travel size bottles of mouthwash, toothpaste, soap, etc because the seller prices them at or around the same as full sized items.

I guess that's on me for not paying attention to the weight though...

Re:Amazon builds property empire, quietly buying land across... by HarryHirsch on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @04:22PM (#31745517)
Up until the mid-2000's Amazon was mainly a bookstore with a very good catalog and recommendation system. Then it became the pile of spam that it is today, a marketplace of sellers worse then Mos Eisley.

But they did get their foothold selling books.