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Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by washadjeffmad on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @08:26AM (#30684426)
Another unwelcome change is that disabling the YouTube app no longer allows opening YouTube links in an external application, forcing them to open in Chrome instead.

I use just a handful of services that require Chrome, so it's unreasonable to have to disable it entirely to restore default historical behaviors. Really feels like throwing their toys out of the crib over not having total dominance on people's devices.

Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by Ourgon on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @08:51AM (#30684604)
The solution to the Youtube-problem is to use a Youtube-frontend like Invidious [1] in combination with an extension like Privacy Redirect [2] of libredirect [3] so you don't need to touch the Youtube site at all. The same works for things like Twitter and Reddit (which can be redirected to front-ends offering the same content) or Google Maps, Google Search and Google Translate (which get redirected to alternative services). Some of these alternatives - Invidious for Youtube, Nitter for Twitter, libreddit for Reddit - can (but don't have to) be run on your own server, others use established services. This way you get the benefits of accessing content from adversarial services like Twitter and Youtube without having to interface with them directly on any device you use, not just that phone you happened to install some alternative front end like Newpipe on. You can "subscribe" to Youtube channels without telling Google you did so, you can access those subscriptions from anywhere, etc.

Ditch that Youtube app and while you're at it ditch the rest of those Google apps as well. Freedom is just one click away: Are you sure you want to uninstall this app? [OK].

[1] https://github.com/iv-org/invidious

[2] https://github.com/SimonBrazell/privacy-redirect

[3] https://github.com/libredirect/libredirect

Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by Liquix on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @09:07AM (#30684745)
This works flawlessly at the moment (currently using the same setup). However it's more of a workaround than a solution - Google could break/throttle all of Invidious at any point if it drives ad revenue down another couple points, just like they recently did to Vanced. The real solution is the hard one - moving away from YT entirely
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by judge2020 on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @09:40AM (#30685122)
Invidious is different from Vanced in that Vanced was a mod on top of the main YouTube application, while Invidious is just a different frontend with presumably no infringement of YouTube IP or code or TOS. Now, youtube-dl got the infamous copyright complaint by RIAA because they advertised using it to download copyrighted music[0], so perhaps a stronger case could be made if any code within Invidious used more hidden APIs or otherwise shows using it to watch Standard YouTube License videos without fulfilling the quid pro quo of watching ads.

0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24872911

Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by crtasm on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @12:00PM (#30686960)
> because they advertised using it to download copyrighted music

Their unit tests used some music videos, and only because Youtube's website uses different javascript for such videos. It's a stretch to call that advertising, I don't believe I'd ever read the tests code before the complaint.

Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by 14 on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @09:40AM (#30685117)
YouTube is getting shittier by the year also. Forcing me to watch an ad that takes 5 seconds to even start then after said ad the video freezes and doesn’t even play requiring a page refresh just to watch something. I’m ready for the alternative to arrive.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by jvolkman on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @10:33AM (#30685825)
There are no video ads if you pay for YouTube Premium (outside of embedded paid sponsor stuff added by the video producers themselves).
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by mcagl on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @05:07PM (#30691725)
Or even better: youtube in the browser, with ublock origin + sponsorblock, and Youtube becomes at least less annoying.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by fsflover on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @09:41AM (#30685128)
If you search for a solution, not workaround, consider this: https://joinpeertube.org.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by Ourgon on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @10:06AM (#30685448)
I host a number of Peertube instances next to Invidious. There is a reason for having both of these: Peertube can not access Youtube-hosted material. Thus, to publish your own material use Peertube, to access Youtube-hosted material use something like Invidious.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by bluGill on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @09:47AM (#30685191)
Seems like an anti-trust lawsuit just waiting to happen if they do.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by mywittyname on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @10:22AM (#30685663)
I don't see anti-trust actions happening in current administration.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by AniseAbyss on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @10:29AM (#30685765)
Normally the EU is always up for making life complicated for big tech but we are currently... indisposed.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by ouid on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @07:01PM (#30693082)
I thought that there was a rather strongly worded memo to the FTC to enforce anti-trust in july of last year.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by toyg on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @10:45AM (#30685969)
> just like they recently did to Vanced

What did they do to Vanced? Still works on my phone.

Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by input_sh on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @11:34AM (#30686597)
It still works but it's no longer being worked on nor offered for download.

Discussed recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30663739

Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by CamelRocketFish on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @11:34AM (#30686600)
Cease and desist.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by ravenstine on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @01:35PM (#30688294)
Am I the only one who is less likely to pay Google for anything when they pull hi-jinks like this? The more that they change how things work, the more that I want to disable updates and use libre software alternatives. If they were just cool and didn't try to prevent me from having things my way, I'd probably have paid them for a premium app experience.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by gameswithgo on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @01:49PM (#30688488)
What are you going to do though? Apple forces you to use their web browser, any apparently 3rd part web browsers are using apple's actual browser as a plug in.

There are no viable options for smart phones that are not fascist.

Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by coffeecat on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @02:17PM (#30688886)
PinePhone + mainline Linux. Obtaining freedom isn't easy - it requires hard work and sacrifice - but it's absolutely possible.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by esperent on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @09:46AM (#30685176)
I used invidious for a few weeks. Actually getting the videos once I connected was fine, the issue was that invidious instances were constantly going down and I had to keep searching for a new working instance.

I also use libreddit and teddit and almost never have a problem with those. Are there any equivalent invidious servers?

Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by psYchotic on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @07:10PM (#30693163)
Invidious is fairly easy to self-host, see https://docs.invidious.io/Installation/#docker-compose-metho...

I don't believe it's very resource intensive (though the recommendation is at least 3GB of RAM), so you may be able to run it on localhost on your laptop, or you could run it on some cheap VPS.

Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by sneak on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @05:05PM (#30691711)
How do I use Privacy Redirect on a mobile browser? I can't seem to install arbitrary browser extensions in Firefox on Graphene, just a little allowlist of a halfdozen "blessed" ones.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by novok on Wednesday March 16, 2022 @12:40AM (#30695390)
In iOS, certain apps can register for certain URL domains and protocols to open the app instead. Maybe Android has something similar and you could leverage that in an app that implements something similar.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by xigoi on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @02:47PM (#30689308)
How do you use the extensions on mobile, where Firefox doesn't allow non-curated extensions?
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by yissp on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @04:01PM (#30690728)
I think Firefox Nightly gives you access to the full selection of extensions.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by xigoi on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @04:15PM (#30690940)
It doesn't.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by maxhille on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @09:34AM (#30685034)
Can you clarify what you want to do exactly?

3rd party apps can still register on Youtube URLs, the process just changed a bit. And being affected in my app[1] by this change myself I have to say that this permission-style model is an improvement IMO.

[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lambdasoup...

Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by xenomachina on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @12:11PM (#30687101)
Two things the new system has broken for me:

1. Previously, installing a reddit app meant that it would become the default handler of reddit links. Worst case, I'd be prompted when I opened a reddit link, and I could choose the app I wanted, and say to use it every time or continue prompting.

In Android 12, I have to go to settings and preemptively check a checkbox for every kind of url my reddit app can handle. Worse, every time my reddit app updates, these settings seem to get reset, and I have to go back and fix them.

2. It used to be possible to register an app with a file type. For example, MX Player registers itself with video file types. Firefox even has some special support for this, so if you're on a page with an embedded video, you can long press on the video and select "Open in external app". Prior to Android 12 this would give you a chooser, and you could select an installed video player.

In Android 12, it just takes you straight to the default browser. It is no longer possible to register a default handler by file type.

> I have to say that this permission-style model is an improvement IMO.

What does the new system make better? All it does is remove user choice. If I wanted a walled garden I'd use iOS.

Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by Iolaum on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @10:19AM (#30685617)
Can't you install Newpipe and select that as the default way to open youtube links? (Assuming you don't object to doing that of course.)
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by AdmiralAsshat on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @10:51AM (#30686058)
IIRC you can't install Newpipe without enabling side-loaded apps, though. It's not available on the Play Store for obvious reasons.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by GekkePrutser on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @11:00AM (#30686168)
That's not a bad thing though? F-Droid has some really great apps. Very fast too compared to their data harvesting Google play alternatives.

I mostly use FOSS apps now, their quality has improved a lot in recent years.

Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by LordDragonfang on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @02:32PM (#30689085)
Which apps would you specifically recommend as faster compared to their counterparts?
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by GekkePrutser on Wednesday March 16, 2022 @12:33AM (#30695352)
Geometric Weather, Newpipe ( instead of YouTube), AndOTP (instead of Google or Microsoft authenticator, the latter being 77MB!), RCX (instead of OneDrive or Dropbox etc). Gadgetbridge to interface with my Xiaomi band and Amazfit watch (also not leaking any personal data unlike the official app!)

All apps that don't do any tracking nor ads and as such save a ton of cpu speed and storage. Especially Microsoft apps are really bad lately. Like OneDrive and Outlook. I have to use them for work. After a month or two outlook uses several gigabytes of storage and gets super slow to refresh. I don't use an open source app instead of it, as I couldn't find a great one, sadly. But I use Nine from 9folders which is great and fast. Though I really want to try out FairEmail soon.

Oh and Organic maps Vs Google maps, or OsmAnd. The latter is not faster but its maps are a lot better and the app has a lot more features.

Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by Aachen on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @12:59PM (#30687758)
That sound like "you can't install Notepad++ without enabling something dangerous on Windows". It's a lock in hurdle that we can thankfully (for now) disable, let's not label it as a bad thing.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by UberFly on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @01:53PM (#30688545)
This is what I did and it works fine. Newpipe is awesome. On phones & tablets I always disable Chrome and Youtube.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by Larrikin on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @11:14AM (#30686341)
This isn't true? I discovered Vanced a few weeks ago, and YouTube links are opening just fine after disabling the links on the official app and enabling them in the Vanced.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by moogly on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @11:26AM (#30686484)
I have some bad news for you regarding Vanced...
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by throwra620 on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @08:34AM (#30684485)
Try opening a Google maps link on iOS without Google maps installed. Annoying.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by lopis on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @02:41PM (#30689225)
If you need a chrome browser, would using another chrome based browser work?
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by zagrebian on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @09:28AM (#30684971)
Are there any instances of this link hijacking crap on iOS as well?
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by beart on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @09:37AM (#30685062)
My experience on iOS was that many application specific links were forcing the use of apple's apps, even if you have a third party app installed.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by dijit on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @09:53AM (#30685260)
That only applied to the browser, calendar (and maybe the mail app, but I think that was always overridable), but this has changed now so you can choose default apps for all Apple built-ins.

Most Apps seem to implement their own in-app browser (LinkedIn, Apollo) too.

Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by Steltek on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @10:09AM (#30685481)
So is the browser stuff fixed then? IIRC, "default browser" was left to individual apps and it was implemented as the app requesting a URI of https:// or chromeHttps:// (or something like that. It was total Apple bullshit.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by zagrebian on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @10:22AM (#30685660)
From my experience, it works well. I’ve set my default browser to Firefox, and links do open in Firefox indeed. Even when I’m in an in-app browser, and there’s a little Safari icon in the lower right corner, when I tap that icon, the link opens in Firefox. So the Safari button does not mean Safari but default browser. Pretty good.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by toyg on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @10:47AM (#30685992)
Usual reminder that Firefox in iOS still means "Safari with a Firefox skin". But yes, it's an improvement, after "only" a decade of complaints about a clearly anticompetitive restriction.
Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by dijit on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @10:55AM (#30686095)
isn't that just the JS engine though? And isn't that mostly because native access to the FPU in silicon is not made use of properly in V8?

I remember someone had Chrome working on iOS but it was painfully slow.

Apple has allowed arbitrary code execution before (Pythonista) so it's possible I guess.

You can do your own rendering for sure.

Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by zagrebian on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @11:26AM (#30686493)
> isn't that just the JS engine though?

Mozilla develops the Gecko browser engine, but Firefox on iOS uses the WebKit browser engine provided by the system. If Mozilla were allowed to use Gecko on iOS, they would, trust me.

Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by Steltek on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @11:14AM (#30686336)
Arbitrary code execution fell under an "educational" exemption, I think. Also, the app store review process is highly variable based on the reviewer.

I'm not an iOS developer but I bet your paths into the JS engine API depends a lot on the web engine you're using. I know the in-app browser had two flavors of UI component with drastically different capabilities.

Re:Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless ... by wlesieutre on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @10:41AM (#30685919)
Yes, iOS has default settings for http and mailto links as of iOS 14

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211336