See: Bank of America's policy on two-party "and" checks.
I walk in, having had a checking account with them for decades: "Hi, I need to deposit a two-party check into my account here. This is the other party with me, and we're happy to show ID."
Door greeter / agent: "Sure, I can do that for you." {Proceeds to verify my information and set up deposit on her tablet} "Hmm." {Walks over to her manager, discusses}
Manager: "Hello. I'm sorry, we only allow two-party checks to be deposited into joint accounts that list both parties."
Me: "I have the other party standing right here, with ID."
Manager: "That's our policy. Even if I pushed it through, the central system would kick it back out."
... which is a policy they can have. But the annoyance to me, is that it's a policy they choose to have, rather than a policy they're required to have. Corrections welcome, but there's no law that mandates this handling of two-party "and" checks. It's just risk mitigation on BoA's part.
Which, if a multi-decade relationship with your customer doesn't facilitate taking additional risk (over a <$1k check) in the interest of customer satisfaction... why would I do business with you?
Needless to say, I closed my BoA accounts.
I've read a number of BoA horror stories on HN, and didn't think anything of them. I just assumed there were a lot because BoA is big in California.
Then, recently, I tried to deal with BoA customer service.
- I'm saving up a few thousand dollars for a Christmas present, but don't want my wife to see the money in our joint account at another bank.
- Since I have BoA credit card with almost nothing on it, and a BoA next door, I decided to open a savings account.
- End of the month, I go online to pay my BoA credit card, and I can't. There is no way on the web site to pay with anything other than the savings account, and no way to re-add my previous external account that I've used with BoA for the last 10 years.
- Call customer service. Wait on hold for three hours, getting transferred twice.
- Finally get someone at BoA to tell me that because I added the savings account, my status changed and I have to add new payment accounts all over.
- Explain again that there is no way to add an external payment account.
- Two more transfers, and someone confirms that the web site is screwed up. Hold on while I transfer you to that department.
- 20 minutes later, someone comes on the line to tell me that tech customer service doesn't work on Saturdays anymore and to check back in a few days and maybe it will magically fix itself.
- I decide to go to the branch. Open BoA app to check its hours, and it's marked "Temporarily closed." So is the next closest BoA. And the one after that. The nearest BoA that is going to be open on Monday is two hours away, according to the app.
- Monday I go out for coffee, which takes me past the BoA branch next door. It's open. People inside. Everything looks normal, contrary to the app telling me it's supposed to be closed.
- I go into the branch, pay off my BoA card, empty the savings account, close both accounts.
Bank of America doesn't deserve to represent itself as the bank of America. It should be called the Bank of Dipshits.
Oh, this story is quintessential US Americana, right down to the name.
I've long maintained that one of the biggest gifts to US corporations is how few of their customers visit other countries. If more of them ever saw functional banking (or humane healthcare, or competitive telephony and broadband, or a number of other things), a lot of rents would evaporate.
Then I wondered if the video game character's name is derived from the vacuum company, or is it a coincidence? Am I an idiot for never noticing that before?
Like most of my trains of thought, it ends with me cursing myself for being an idiot.
Then at one point I was between jobs and filed for unemployment - which conveniently came on a BofA debit card. 10 years later and I still get an email about some kind of monthly statement for the $0.43 on there. I tried to close out the account and gave up after several attempts, and just marked it as spam.
Don't set up a payment option on the credit card's website. Use the bill pay ability at the web site of the bank where your checking account lives. Now all your payment information is in one place and, more importantly, under your control via pushing payments from your checking to whomever instead of allowing a bunch of companies to pull money from your account.
Funny thing is she was able to open the account without input from me so I'm not sure what this policy is actually doing.
The problem isn't necessarily with the policy as such; it's perhaps an entirely sensible policy to have – I don't even know what a "two-party and check" is so have no opinion on that as such – but the real problem is that there is no way a human applying basic "common sense" judgement can override the policy.
A lot of things are now like this: "this is the rule", "computer says no", with little recourse. The complexity of reality can't be captured in a rulebook or computer program, so lots of people in different "unusual" (although they're usually not that unusual) situations hit brick walls for a lot of basic stuff.
It's slowly crushing out collective souls and stripping us of our humanity.
Incidentally a BoA teller just told me yesterday that the phone all is not supposed to accept two party checks at all.
Actually, it is supposed to.
The 1990's-era legislation that made phone deposits possible shifted the liability and some other regulatory details a bit to make it possible. The verification and liability is less strict with an online deposit than an in-person deposit.
At the time, it was a big news story. The rule change was originally intended to allow businesses to deposit checks from their offices with a device over a modem for speed and security.
When it was in the news, people were up in arms because it shifted the liability for certain types of fraud onto the consumer, and away from the banks. Consumer advocates saw it as a big money-grab by the evil mustache-twirling bankers.
The result is that now when you get something like a random unexpected electric company refund check in the mail, you can deposit it with your phone.
The only time you get any service is when you are looking to saddle yourself with debt or they have to comply due to regulations.
First I was told to withdraw the remaining funds to get the balance to zero. Before I did that, I asked them if doing so would automatically close the account without incurring some kinds of fees? crickets
Then I was promised when I got ahold of their specific account closing department that I would be sent a small cashiers check for the small balance I kept in there to avoid incurring fees. Never arrived.
Then I kept getting calls for someone with a different name from the bank. I eventually figured out they were trying to call about this issue, but literally has a completely different name that made no sense.
When I called them back anojt it to close the account again, I was told I needed to go to a branch. Well, all branches are closed due to Covid. Then I have to call again, well, there is a specific branch that is open - great! Too bad I couldn’t find it via the branch locator the first time.
Go to that specific branch - closing an account requires an appointment.
Me: Ok, when is the next appointment?
Them: since you’re closing an account, you need a specific kind of rep. The soonest appointment is a week from now.
Them: but you can close the account by withdrawing funds to zero
Me: will that actually close the account without incurring some kind of negative balance due to fees?
Them: looks nervous uh no
Me: I see, it’s almost like you all are trying to get me to not actually close my account due to some incentive structure and tack on fees. I’m about this close from suing you in small claims court for not actually letting me close my account.
Them: look at each other super nervously ehem, I can book that appointment for you.
Me: ok
And somehow, when I get home after this, I get a text that my account has actually been closed and the cashiers check gets in my hand through the mail before the actual appointment they scheduled me.
It’s just adding bullshit process to provide friction to keep some metric up near as I can tell.
Q: Well, at least I can still withdraw and deposit money there, right?
A: Actually, if you want to deposit coinage, we've outsourced that to home improvement stores instead.
(At least, that’s what Coinstar in the US has become.)
> A: "No, they're just for show. We don't actually do any business there...
This is what I don't get about BECU being the most popular credit union in Puget Sound. Every time there's a thread on Reddit asking about the credit unions people use or if there's a newcomer who's at a social gathering or just on Twitter, BECU is always the recommended place. I don't understand, since their branches are solely there to sell you a mortgage.
Yet everyone is mad that Chase is opening branches all over town where you can do actual banking with an actual human.
(I'm neither a Chase nor BECU customer, for what it's worth.)
Do you mind if I ask what BECU can't do in a branch? I'm genuinely curious because your experience seems so different from mine.
Missing: Q: "So can I just walk into one of those zillion bank branches you've set up in the last 10 years, squatting on all that storefront real estate that could be used for real businesses that sell me something, attract tourists, or whatever?"
A: "No, they're just for show. We don't actually do any business there, we just rent that space to piss you all off, as a visible display of what we can do with all those excessive fees we charge you."