News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by black_puppydog on Friday February 11, 2022 @08:58PM (#30309198)
> As mentioned in our “Take a look inside Steam Deck” video, you have every right to open up your Steam Deck and do what you want with it.

The fact that they wrote this into the readme, even though strictly speaking it's unrelated to the outside topology, makes me wanna work for valve.

They're seriously one of only a few tech companies I really admire, and that's despite the fact that I don't have much inclination towards gaming.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by AceJohnny2 on Friday February 11, 2022 @10:51PM (#30309773)
My belief is that they're flush with Steam money, and hardware isn't core to their business. If anything, they want to expand the PC gaming ecosystem, which is already very DIY and mod-friendly.

Thus, they can afford to set themselves apart from the likes of Apple and tell their customers to have fun.

Pessimistically, I imagine that if their hardware business boomed exponentially, their support costs would rise and the hardware designers would be pressured to reduce PEBKAC risks...

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by TulliusCicero on Saturday February 12, 2022 @03:21AM (#30310974)
People look at companies too cynically here. While obviously Valve wants to make money, they also have a culture and values that don’t always align with a Homo Economicus perspective. Not all of Valve’s actions can be trivially explained as the fastest route to dollars.

Unlike most companies we discuss here, Valve is not publicly held, and doesn’t seem particularly interested in being so. That, combined with their dominance of the PC gaming market, means their culture is more free to let them target things orthogonal to making money, when the whim strikes them.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by Ekaros on Saturday February 12, 2022 @07:11AM (#30312191)
Yeah, I think we really should see difference sometimes between public and private companies. And on extension companies that aim to be public or sold like most VC backed startups.

The public aim to make as much money as possible or at least increase valuation. The private however can be content with making enough of it. Which can really change the long term plans.

Also being public company and not increase enough valuation always runs the risk of being acquired and someone else doing it.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by nindalf on Saturday February 12, 2022 @05:18AM (#30311584)
They worry less about money because they have so much of it. Steam’s 30% cut of all game revenue is a lot. It’s different at companies that have to worry about making money.

Speaking of which, there’s a lot of negative sentiment around these parts for Apple and Google taking 30% of their stores (“rent seeking”), but not so much around Valve for doing the same. Possibly because HN skews more towards app developers who pay fees to the former and less towards game developers.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by dpatterbee on Saturday February 12, 2022 @07:22AM (#30312251)
I think Steam gets a pass on that more than Apple/Google because Steam is just one of many avenues for selling a game on the PC whereas Apple has a monopoly on it and Google have an effective monopoly.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by account42 on Monday February 14, 2022 @07:13AM (#30331057)
Exactly, game developers publish on Steam because they want to be on Steam while the App Store is the only way to publish for iOS and the Play Store is also heavily favored by the Android OS to make other avenues for publishing apps unrealistic. That said, a large value of Steam is the network effect (users wanting to have everything in the same store/launcher, friends on Steam for multiplayer) rather than platform features that others could directly compete with so I don't think the cut Valve takes is beyond criticism.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by Semaphor on Saturday February 12, 2022 @05:28AM (#30311638)
Steam allows you to generate keys that you then sell (or give away) on other stores. With no cut for them (purely third-party information, I have no personal insight), but the same UX as if someone had bought it on Steam.

That alone makes a huge difference and is nothing that either Apple or Google offer.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by SXX on Saturday February 12, 2022 @08:59AM (#30312849)
This. There are some limitations on how many keys you can request, but it's purely to stop abuse. E.g you can't ask for million keys for title that sold 10 copies, but it's super easy to get tens and hundred thousands of keys if your title is modestly popular.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by jimmydorry on Saturday February 12, 2022 @11:24AM (#30313934)
At the end of the day though, those keys are only redeemable on the Steam platform and serve Valve's interest in keeping users within the Valve eco-system.

As an existing Steam user though, this is great for me! It means one less third party DRM platform I need installed.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by Semaphor on Saturday February 12, 2022 @01:24PM (#30314954)
Well, the comment I replied to, was about the 30% cut, though ;)

And regarding DRM: People often forget that the use of DRM with Steam is in the hands of the Devs/Publisher. There are DRM-free games on steam. Now, how convenient it is to back up those games is another thing, but it’s often possible.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by black_puppydog on Saturday February 12, 2022 @07:37AM (#30312305)
As others have alluded to, I think the situation is different exactly because there is at least a real potential for competition. Epic seems to take a good swing at this. Sure, a huge market share _favors_ Valve in this case, but that's nothing compared to the technical infeasibility of the same approach say on iOS.

The PC remains an open platform, even MacOS to a degree (albeit apparently less so as of late...) and Valve have aggressively campaigned for it to stay that way. Competition there is possible.

I remember the debates from ~10 years ago around Microsoft's moves towards a more AppStore-like experience on Windows, where Valve really led the charge against it. The move towards SteamOS and Steam Machines seemed to be part of their reaction at the time. And it seems to pay off big-time now, not just for them but also for users, Linux users especially of course. :)

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by TulliusCicero on Saturday February 12, 2022 @04:55PM (#30316920)
Also, some of the bigger devs/publishers just use their own platform and seem to do fine, like Riot and Blizzard.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by ohgodplsno on Saturday February 12, 2022 @05:30AM (#30311646)
Steam takes 30% under 10 million in sales, 25% under 50 million, 20% after that, and there's also internal agreements to lower that cut.

That said, negative sentiment about Steam has been a heavy subject in years past. There's a reason Epic came in swinging with super low fees.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by TulliusCicero on Saturday February 12, 2022 @04:47PM (#30316861)
Part of it is that Steam seems to have a lot more features than those app stores, especially user facing features. If you’ve ever browsed around Steam’s UI and store, there’s a LOT of stuff going on.

The other part is that you have many actually useful alternative avenues to selling PC games. Yes, Steam is far and away #1, but lots of devs go direct to consumer themselves, and some use alternate stores like Epic, GOG, or Itch.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by pie_flavor on Sunday February 13, 2022 @03:43AM (#30320300)
With Steam, you get your money's worth. A user forum, a friends list and invitation system, Steam Workshop, extensive controller support, etc. The lack of any features other than the ability to deploy on the platform at all is what makes the App Store's cut rent seeking.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by RF_Savage on Saturday February 12, 2022 @04:45PM (#30316845)
Good linux support and promoting linux for gaming is also one of their hedges against Microsoft pulling an Apple and making installing software from the Microsoft store the only convenient way in the future. Along with a 30% cut.

Having a mature linux support helps with that.

In the case of SteamDeck the lack of Microsoft tax also helps the price.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by TulliusCicero on Saturday February 12, 2022 @04:49PM (#30316879)
Yes, but many of their efforts don’t make much sense that way. The Index and Alyx made them some money, but were they the best use of Valve resources in terms of profit, even without the benefit of hindsight? Nah. It was immediately obvious that it was closer to a passion project for them. It’s something they believed in and wanted to try, not something that was gonna make them richer anytime soon.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by account42 on Monday February 14, 2022 @07:22AM (#30331135)
On the other hand, Valve has been on the forefront of adding microtransactions and lootboxes to their games, including paid games. They are not beyond optimizing for maximum profit even if it that mindset does not infect all of their projects.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by urthor on Friday February 11, 2022 @11:15PM (#30309888)
Valve's principal line of business right now is utterly eradicating Epic Game Store from existence.

Its tool for doing that is consumer sentiment.

This all plays into Valve's business strategy. They're fighting to justify ye ole 30% cut.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by smoldesu on Saturday February 12, 2022 @02:06AM (#30310598)
Hey, if Apple released repair videos, device schematics, commit their translation tech and kernel development to upstream, maintained CI/CD pipelines for all major operating systems, built platform-agnostic hardware APIs for third-party vendors and built safe inroads for the modding/enthusiast community, I think their 30% wouldn't be so hard to swallow. All we got were some lame whitepapers instead.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by jcastro on Friday February 11, 2022 @11:39PM (#30309989)
The prescience of doing SteamOS/Steam Machines/Steam Controllers years before EGS seems to have paid off for them. (Eventually, and probably by accident, time will tell but the device seems to be pretty badass so far).
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by sennight on Saturday February 12, 2022 @12:47AM (#30310323)
> Its tool for doing that is consumer sentiment.

That is the tool for basically doing anything productive as a business... it isn't as if they've done some about face at the emergence of genuine competition - they've always been unusually well liked (especially considering the industry).

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by urthor on Saturday February 12, 2022 @06:20AM (#30311907)
In contrast, a prominent thread about Adobe currently sits on the front page.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by SXX on Saturday February 12, 2022 @04:32AM (#30311370)
Valve already decreased it cut for highest-grossing titles to 25% (after $10 million in sales) or 20% (after $50 million in sales).

And fortunately for Valve even 3 years after release Epic Games Store don't even have half of Steam features. Also Epic is so consumer-hostile (or as they call it pro-developer) that they won't ever implement player-reviews into their system.

So it's not that hard for Valve for keep their mindshare. Far larger danger for them is Microsoft with it's Xbox game subscription model and unlimited amount of money.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by fragmede on Saturday February 12, 2022 @05:07AM (#30311539)
That seems backwards. The vast majority of games aren't making $10mm, definitely not $50mm. Why take more money from the small indie developer?
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by nindalf on Saturday February 12, 2022 @05:21AM (#30311599)
Because they can. Where are these small developers going to go? Itch.io, GOG, Epic, Humble? These are all options but it’s suicide to not list on the Steam store. Too many PC gamers use Steam exclusively.

Meanwhile the large developers, the ones who are making $50M+, those developers have enough pull to make the user install a custom client like Origin. That’s why Valve cuts them a better deal.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by SXX on Saturday February 12, 2022 @08:47AM (#30312777)
Because they can and there are is no real competition. Epic Game Store so far is laughtable attempt at pumping money into user-hostile service that missing tons of features. For now the only good reason to release on EGS is Epic giving your company money.

Disclosure: I work at small indie PC gamedev studio.

I just point out how Valve changed rules for big companies back in 2018. So they have different revenue share compared to both Apple / Google and consoles.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by jimmydorry on Saturday February 12, 2022 @11:30AM (#30313986)
The fixed cost of hosting a game is relatively fixed (providing a storefront, first level customer support, license management), and the part of the cost that scales but is still cheap (bandwidth is larger for bigger titles).

However, there are many times more small indie titles than there are big successes, and it's the big titles that draw users to your platform and bring in the money.

If Valve flipped their model, those indie titles would be even more of a net drain on their profitability, while there would be more incentive for the big titles to release on their own platforms.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by vhab on Saturday February 12, 2022 @12:13AM (#30310147)
From the license in the same repository:

> Furthermore, please be aware that opening the outside enclosure of your Steam hardware will void a warranty you may otherwise enjoy (https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=4577-TUJ...).

I'd say that significantly diminishes the good will statements like "you have every right to open up your Steam Deck and do what you want with it." buys them though.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by joezydeco on Saturday February 12, 2022 @12:43AM (#30310301)
So if you crack open your unit and break something while messing around, you expect Valve should fix it for you for free under the standard warranty?

Allowing you to make the choice between hacking or not seems like perfectly good will to me. You can't have your cake and eat it too, as they say.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by Dylan16807 on Saturday February 12, 2022 @01:25AM (#30310456)
> So if you crack open your unit and break something while messing around

I don't expect a warranty from that, but I very much do expect a warranty if I crack it open and don't break something while messing around.

Thankfully the actual warranty doesn't say it's voided by opening.

Some of the exclusions on there are worrying, though. Improper cleaning? Refurbs have no warranty? "Commercial use" is much too vague.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by genocidicbunny on Saturday February 12, 2022 @02:53AM (#30310815)
Valve can't invalidate your warranty if your opening up the deck wasn't responsible for the damage, at least in the US.[0]

So yes, opening it up and improperly cleaning it (for example, you take a q-tip with rubbing alcohol to clean off some gunk and accidentally dislodge a capacitor) could void your warranty.

----

[0] https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2018/04/ftc-s...

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by Dylan16807 on Saturday February 12, 2022 @03:56AM (#30311175)
> So yes, opening it up and improperly cleaning it (for example, you take a q-tip with rubbing alcohol to clean off some gunk and accidentally dislodge a capacitor) could void your warranty.

My complaint is that the warranty page only talks about whether you caused the damage for the clause about opening it up or making modifications. The clause about warranty loss for cleaning "in any manner other than as specified in the Hardware manual" is unconditional.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by londons_explore on Saturday February 12, 2022 @03:00AM (#30310853)
A lot of people don't think they damaged something by opening it up...

But when the put a screw back too tight, which then a year later cracks the plastic support its screwed into, falls out, and shorts some terminals on the voltage regulator, and the whole thing goes up in smoke...

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by hnra on Saturday February 12, 2022 @03:34AM (#30311039)
Then it sounds like the person voided the warranty by assembling incorrectly, not by opening it.

I’m sure that if people opening their devices, breaking them, and expecting warranty to cover it is such a big problem, then there is enough financial incentive to find an actual solution.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by vhab on Saturday February 12, 2022 @03:55AM (#30311173)
I don't expect to keep warranty, it just diminishes any praise you could give for other statements they make like quoted in the OP

> you have every right to open up your Steam Deck and do what you want with it.

We already have this right for things we own, on exactly the same terms, which is it voids warranty.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by db48x on Saturday February 12, 2022 @07:44AM (#30312341)
Except that merely opening something _does not_ void the warranty in the US. It is in fact illegal for a manufacturer to claim that it does! It has been illegal since 1975 and people still believe this crap. Even repairing something does not void the warranty.

https://www.ifixit.com/News/11748/warranty-stickers-are-ille...

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by BaRRaKID on Monday February 14, 2022 @07:49AM (#30331377)
Just noticed that they use different wording on the readme:

"Any damage you do will not be covered by your warranty – but more importantly, you might break your Steam Deck, or even get hurt!"

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by zeusk on Friday February 11, 2022 @10:59PM (#30309813)
As much as I want to work there, they're also responsible for peddling the pile of shit like treasure chests, unlock keys and "trading cards" which I find extremely repulsive.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by javajosh on Friday February 11, 2022 @11:16PM (#30309895)
I don't like that crap either, but Valve's contribution to that dreck is really easy to ignore in Steam. It's the game designers and business types that put gambling features in games, and that is the precise moral equivalent of selling cigarettes to kids. You might fault Steam for hosting games like that, but then you'll be faulting every platform, including the free ones, because lets face it, learning to code doesn't require passing an ethics class, or even taking one.

My point is that you're probably better off being repulsed at someone else because in the scheme of things Valve really isn't that bad, IMHO.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by davemp on Friday February 11, 2022 @11:50PM (#30310036)
The CS:GO and dota2 (developed by valve) item market places were probably some of the earlier and more influential loot box / gambling games.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by CodeArtisan on Saturday February 12, 2022 @12:35AM (#30310261)
It all started when they turned Team Fortress 2 into a free-to-play game (remember all the memes about the "hats"?). The move originated from Yanis Varoufakis who later became Greek minister of finance.

https://archive.fo/IXtkd

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanis_Varoufakis

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by jack_pp on Saturday February 12, 2022 @03:35AM (#30311045)
I have over 4000 hours in dota and I've never bought a loot box or cared about skins. I never felt like I was pushed into it. You can play those games without any issues even if you don't buy the skins. Contrast that with games like Hearthstone which uses packs with random cards as a way to pay to win and which require a lot of money to get into.. I see nothing wrong with Valve's business model.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by nindalf on Saturday February 12, 2022 @05:29AM (#30311641)
Same. I don’t worship Valve like some people do, but I can confirm that I never felt pushed into buying any of their micro transactions. 2000 hours in Dota 2 and I think $40 spent total. Comparing with coworkers who’ve played similar hours of League of Legends, they were saying numbers ranging from $600-12k. I looked up posts on /r/Hearthstone when I was considering playing the game and they were talking in the range of $500-$3000. Basically $200 to make a decent deck every new season. That’s too rich for my blood.

I have no doubt that some people spend money they can’t afford to even in Dota 2/CS GO, but that feels more of a choice than other games.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by Ekaros on Saturday February 12, 2022 @07:16AM (#30312221)
CS:GO player. I have wasted money there. But I'm getting my Deck out of it and still have lot left... So it could be worse. I really think their model the least bad one. At least you have chance to reuse the money you spend.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by analognoise on Saturday February 12, 2022 @10:50AM (#30313659)
$600 to 12k??

You must be kidding. I mean at that point you'd hope some preservation instinct kicks in and you realize you are trading real dollars for a few bits on a server, and you go buy a chess set and play it down at the park.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by s1artibartfast on Saturday February 12, 2022 @11:31AM (#30313992)
Wait until you hear about state lotteries and casinos =P

It is amazing to me that people will just walk in with their pay check and leave drunk with pennies. Some serious neurochemistry going on there.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by account42 on Monday February 14, 2022 @07:35AM (#30331247)
Gambling and addiction affect different people differently. Saying you did not fall into the trap is not an argument for the practice not being abusive.

It also does not account for the presence of microtransactions influencing the design of the rest of the game towards selling more microtransactions which affects you even if you never buy anything. Granted, this could be considered as "payment" for a free game but once microtransactions/lootboxes/NFTs/whatever have or will become acceptable there, they spread to paid games too.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by rocqua on Saturday February 12, 2022 @02:18AM (#30310644)
Like others said, the start of these things was team fortress 2, also a valve game.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by powersnail on Saturday February 12, 2022 @03:30AM (#30311024)
At least in dota2, you don't have to buy anything to play the game in its entirety. The lootbox and market places are only for cosmetics which doesn't affect the game play in any manner.

...which is a pretty fair business in my opinion.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by ui4jd73bdj on Saturday February 12, 2022 @04:16AM (#30311291)
Valve with csgo and dota are like saints compared to something like EA or Riot when it comes to microtransactions.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by Ekaros on Saturday February 12, 2022 @07:17AM (#30312227)
Or gacha games in general. Secondary market seems exploitative. But in the end it is actually a way to get some money back to spend on other games.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by account42 on Monday February 14, 2022 @07:46AM (#30331354)
There really isn't such a thing as cosmetic-only microtransactions in a fast paced game. If it changes how something looks, it affects gameplay.

And beyond that, the rest of the game is not being designed independently of microtransactions and that affects you even if you never buy any.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by powersnail on Thursday February 17, 2022 @12:46AM (#30369934)
The cosmetics don't give any advantage to the buyer that is noticeable by pro players. And that's a good enough definition of cosmetic-only to me.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by MikusR on Saturday February 12, 2022 @02:20AM (#30310659)
They have been selling "NFT"s for 10 years.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by xdrosenheim on Saturday February 12, 2022 @06:09AM (#30311854)
They have been selling unique items yes, but I would not call them NFT...
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by jimmydorry on Saturday February 12, 2022 @11:36AM (#30314028)
A few of the hats have essentially been non-fungible tokens, almost indistinguishable from the way people have been interacting with these picture NFTs. The hats in question were one-of-a-kind and had an id that allowed you to check the provinence of them, if you kept track of the hats in the market.

They certainly weren't on a blockchain though, or give the user exclusive ownership over them.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by s1artibartfast on Saturday February 12, 2022 @11:32AM (#30313998)
Yeah, 100% fungible items.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by yellow_lead on Saturday February 12, 2022 @03:23AM (#30310992)
Watch out, @richgel999 has posted many horror stories of working at Valve on Twitter. Things like bosses convincing employees to take on debt (so they'll have more leverage against them), employees competing ruthlessly for bonuses (breaking their code intentionally), and other weird side effects of working for a self-organizing corp.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by coding123 on Friday February 11, 2022 @09:22PM (#30309330)
If you get a job there can you BEG them to make Left 4 Dead 3
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by sphars on Friday February 11, 2022 @09:27PM (#30309352)
Or any third installment in any of their games: HL3, L4D3, TF3, Portal 3, DOTA3
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by zitterbewegung on Friday February 11, 2022 @10:48PM (#30309767)
Counter Strike had more than a third installment and HL got two episodes and a prequel.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by xdrosenheim on Saturday February 12, 2022 @06:10AM (#30311856)
Counter-Strike 2 and Ricochet 2 first.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by jayd16 on Friday February 11, 2022 @09:32PM (#30309382)
Didn't the spiritual successor Back 4 Blood release not too long ago? No good?
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by ben-schaaf on Friday February 11, 2022 @09:43PM (#30309440)
The steam reviews are mixed, compared to overwhelmingly positive for L4D2. It's also Windows exclusive with Easy Anti-Cheat so it can't run on Linux. (It's a coop game, who cares about cheating there??)
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by jayd16 on Saturday February 12, 2022 @02:46AM (#30310781)
Cheats can also be used to grief other players in the match making queue.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by Rebelgecko on Friday February 11, 2022 @10:43PM (#30309742)
B4B does have a human vs zombie multiplayer mode
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by Duralias on Saturday February 12, 2022 @06:08PM (#30317300)
However, that mode is nothing like the versus mode people actually wanted.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by aufhebung on Friday February 11, 2022 @09:43PM (#30309443)
I haven't played it, but this video gives the impression that it is much less polished in comparison to its predecessors. However it could just be nitpicking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdRLNUGmFC8
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by lemoncookiechip on Saturday February 12, 2022 @04:45AM (#30311436)
I would recommend giving this video a watch. It'll show you just how much care and attention to detail was put into L4D 1 and 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdRLNUGmFC8
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by TranquilMarmot on Friday February 11, 2022 @10:33PM (#30309697)
It's okay. The difficulty ramp-up is really steep to the point where once you finish the easier difficulties it just gets way too hard. Maybe if you play with friends it would be different, but I was mostly solo queueing.

That being said... it was a lot of fun until I got frustrated with it! It's on the PC game pass.

Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by coding123 on Friday February 11, 2022 @09:43PM (#30309444)
Didn't know it existed you just made my weekend.
Re:CAD files for the external shell (surface topology) of St... by LegitShady on Friday February 11, 2022 @10:35PM (#30309711)
its not as good.