News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:You can change your number by charcircuit on Monday February 07, 2022 @03:53PM (#30250960)
I've never used a contact list for my "buddies." We just have each other added on Discord.
Re:You can change your number by bogota on Monday February 07, 2022 @03:59PM (#30251051)
I can assure you that most people do use phone contact lists for their intended purpose. I’m not sure what your comment is trying to get at other than being argumentative for whatever reason.
Re:You can change your number by Talanes on Monday February 07, 2022 @04:09PM (#30251205)
Do you have data on that, or are you just asserting that your personal experience is more universal than their personal experience?

I don't think they're totally off-base: I haven't used my phone contact list for personal contacts for most of the last decade. It's just a collection of work contacts that I don't trust enough to add anywhere I actually talk to people.

Re:You can change your number by jack_pp on Monday February 07, 2022 @04:16PM (#30251295)
I'm sorry but do you need data for common sense? Is WhatsApp one of the biggest messaging platforms where people don't talk to their close friends and family? You think discord or other mediums are more popular than iMessage and WhatsApp?
Re:You can change your number by Talanes on Monday February 07, 2022 @04:24PM (#30251405)
I mean, I guess I do? I'm legitimately unsure if I'm in some weird bubble where no one uses WhatsApp or you're in a bubble of unusually high usage. But it's been a small enough part of my life that I'm not even fully sure what the connection is. It uses your contact list as well?
Re:You can change your number by Vinnl on Monday February 07, 2022 @04:28PM (#30251457)
Supposedly two billion users as of Feb 2020: https://web.archive.org/web/20200212142339/https://blog.what...
Re:You can change your number by fragmede on Monday February 07, 2022 @05:00PM (#30251935)
In today's individualized, algorithmic online world, it's safer to assume you're in a weird bubble until proven otherwise. My Twitter/Facebook/whatever feed is totally different than yours. Everyone still has a Facebook account (though; noticeable dip in Q1) and Snapchat is still wildly popular.
Re:You can change your number by throwawayben on Monday February 07, 2022 @05:34PM (#30252350)
I assume you're in the US? As I understand it, it's less popular there.

I'd say at least 95% of smart phone users in the UK use WhatsApp. I think that's probably true of the rest of Europe as well.

Re:You can change your number by recursive on Monday February 07, 2022 @04:48PM (#30251771)
Is any of this stuff more popular than actually calling people? How are people calling? Memorize phone numbers? I'm completely stumped about how someone could use a cellphone for a decade without using a contact list.
Re:You can change your number by charcircuit on Monday February 07, 2022 @05:08PM (#30252029)
I don't even have my friends' phone numbers. If I want to call a friend I do it on my desktop using Discord. Before like 2016 we would call using Skype instead.
Re:You can change your number by frabcus on Tuesday February 08, 2022 @04:45AM (#30256548)
This is fascinating. I feel like an anthropologist so have lots of questions.

Do you have multiple Discord servers or just one for all your friends?

Roughly how old are you and are you a student or in a job or something else? What country or region?

When you meet a new person you want to stay in contact with, how do you do so?

Do you use only Discord with friends or do you also add them on eg Facebook or Email or any other communication system?

In my world (employed, UK, middle aged) at work generally we use Slack (kinda like you’re using Discord in a way), shifting to phone numbers when you know people well for non work stuff.

Everyone else I meet, the assumption is to exchange phone number and use WhatsApp - exceptions would be iMessage or Signal sometimes. Or email or Twitter in business circumstances.

Re:You can change your number by recursive on Monday February 07, 2022 @06:48PM (#30253190)
It's been a while since I had a friend I was regularly communicating with, so I have no idea how normal this is. But it is totally foreign to me.
Re:You can change your number by Talanes on Monday February 07, 2022 @11:29PM (#30254909)
I'm turning 32 this year, and I've honestly never used phone calls as a way to talk with my friends (outside the quick calls that texting replaced.) When I changed my phone number a few years back I told like 5 people, all family.

We had AIM and message boards pretty early, but no dedicated phone lines. By the time cell-phones became ubiquitous, we had cars and could just actually hang out. And by the time we all moved apart, voice chat services were good enough to just hop back to the old chat model.

Re:You can change your number by tptacek on Monday February 07, 2022 @04:17PM (#30251316)
Discord works by keeping a serverside database of which people are talking to which people, which is, to a serious adversary, the most valuable single piece of information the service can cough up. Discord is much, much more convenient than Signal, and that's good. The services have different goals.
Re:You can change your number by wolverine876 on Monday February 07, 2022 @05:26PM (#30252245)
How is Discord more convenient? I don't mean the question critically, but I wonder what a sophisticated user sees in Discord when Signal seems, to me, as convenient as texting and calling.
Re:You can change your number by psanford on Monday February 07, 2022 @07:56PM (#30253694)
Discord has your full chat history in a conveniently searchable server side database. When new people join a channel in your discord server, they call see the full chat history so they can get fully caught up.

You can use discord on multiple devices at the same time without the devices needing to directly sync with each other (because the state is stored on the server).

Re:You can change your number by charcircuit on Tuesday February 08, 2022 @12:49AM (#30255309)
>When new people join a channel in your discord server, they call see the full chat history so they can get fully caught up.

FYI there is a permission to disable this for a channel

Re:You can change your number by psanford on Tuesday February 08, 2022 @02:00AM (#30255664)
The point is that's a feature that is possible because the chat history is stored on discord's servers.
Re:You can change your number by scgtrp on Monday February 07, 2022 @06:26PM (#30252964)
One big thing Signal is bad at for me is using from a computer.

They have a desktop client, but it's just a weird thing that proxies through my phone in a sort of bizarre backwards self-hosting sort of way.

Re:You can change your number by haffenloher on Monday February 07, 2022 @07:24PM (#30253462)
It does not proxy through your phone. After the initial setup, you can switch off your phone and the desktop client will work just fine.
Re:You can change your number by Yeroc on Monday February 07, 2022 @08:25PM (#30253879)
Except (unless something has changed very recently) you can't backup/restore your chat history to a new desktop client... Security over general usability.
Re:You can change your number by pseudalopex on Monday February 07, 2022 @09:35PM (#30254314)
You can back up. Not restore though. The database key is in the config file.

How does it help security?

Re:You can change your number by wolverine876 on Monday February 07, 2022 @06:46PM (#30253173)
Excellent point; agreed.
Re:You can change your number by caslon on Monday February 07, 2022 @03:58PM (#30251039)
Discord keeps your friend information on their servers. This is, like tptacek said, exactly what Signal is trying to prevent. If servers get seized by the Feds, they don't want to needlessly reveal who's contacting who for everyone.

It's about storing as little personal information as they can.

Re:You can change your number by doc_gunthrop on Monday February 07, 2022 @04:21PM (#30251368)
Not only do they keep your friend information on their servers, they maintain a copy of every single message you've ever sent via Discord. Their service is the antithesis of private communications.
Re:You can change your number by stjohnswarts on Monday February 07, 2022 @04:34PM (#30251570)
Can you request deletion of these? I've never really thought about that before (I don't use discord that much anyway other than hoping on some channels occasionally to help beginners to rust and c++. I guess I'm not giving away too much there :)
Re:You can change your number by charcircuit on Monday February 07, 2022 @05:09PM (#30252041)
Yes, you can.
Re:You can change your number by dylan604 on Monday February 07, 2022 @07:09PM (#30253359)
Are you really going to request that deletion after every single sensitive conversation? That seems dumb. Also, are those deletions tracked? Like, do they say User A requested their conversation with User B and User C be deleted so that Mr Fed can still see that A B and C had that conversation?

There's just so so many places to get tripped up by keeping data rather than just routing bits and never storing them.

Re:You can change your number by stjohnswarts on Monday February 07, 2022 @07:48PM (#30253632)
I was thinking more like "Hey discord, please delete all my old data from your databases, everything" not doing it after every "sensitive" conversation.
Re:You can change your number by charcircuit on Tuesday February 08, 2022 @12:50AM (#30255314)
>Are you really going to request that deletion after every single sensitive conversation?

Just delete them manually then.

Re:You can change your number by vel0city on Tuesday February 08, 2022 @11:44AM (#30260681)

  Update Discord.messages 
    Set Deleted=True
  Where messageID='71d01110-e3d8-4673-9ba0-7bc676c5b6e6'
Deleted!
Re:You can change your number by vel0city on Tuesday February 08, 2022 @11:42AM (#30260643)
Also, every thing you've ever attached in a message (even 1 on 1 messages) have publicly accessible URLs.

There is no such thing as privacy on Discord.

Re:You can change your number by theamk on Monday February 07, 2022 @04:15PM (#30251284)
Question: do you use Signal? If yes, are you backing up/syncing your contact list? If yes, are you worried about Feds coming for your backup/sync provider?
Re:You can change your number by caslon on Monday February 07, 2022 @05:54PM (#30252607)
If that happens, that's not a disastrous thing. That means one person reveals who they're talking to in general, not just on Signal. It doesn't mean that the millions of Signal users all lose that privacy.

But no, I don't use Signal. I just think it's strange how some people can't seem to wrap their head around any of the rationale for this when it's the most transparent thing in the world. Do I like it? No, but it's ridiculous how some people pretend to be incapable of critical thinking in order to talk about how it's horrible. If something is actually horrible, being deliberately obtuse isn't needed.

Re:You can change your number by theamk on Monday February 07, 2022 @10:34PM (#30254619)
I don't think you are getting it -- I am not talking about single user.

Whatsapp has 2 billion users, and they are pretty open that they upload entire user's phonebooks to Facebook-owned servers. We know Facebook is not worried much about privacy, so I am pretty sure that this data can be subpoenaed, sold and so on. If you care about privacy, you probably want to install something else, like Signal.

But you know what happens if you cannot get all of your friends converted at once, so you keep Whatsapp around? It will keep sending your contact list changes to Facebook, just at it is designed to.

Let me repeat this: you worry about metadata, so you want to chat to a friend via Signal. But the moment you add them, this is reported to all other apps including Facebook's Whatsapp. And there is no way to opt out of it.

How can people not notice this? How can any company call themselves "privacy friendly" and do this stuff?

Re:You can change your number by caslon on Tuesday February 08, 2022 @07:24AM (#30257610)
No one knows which app you're contacting them on. Send them a text message and suddenly your activity is cloaked.

This isn't that hard.

Re:You can change your number by stjohnswarts on Monday February 07, 2022 @04:35PM (#30251584)
Isn't your contact list encrypted? I mean wouldn't they have to hack my password (good luck) to do that?
Re:You can change your number by crtasm on Monday February 07, 2022 @06:31PM (#30253011)
When you backup to/sync via Apple or Google? No.
Re:You can change your number by mikepurvis on Monday February 07, 2022 @04:10PM (#30251223)
I haven't historically— multiple rounds of old flip phones and early Android devices with zero migration story made me wary of overly investing in anything on-device.

However, the current wave of phone-number-tied messengers (WhatsApp, Signal) have definitely pushed me in that direction.