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Re:Settings are not a design failure by nirvdrum on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @04:23PM (#30184248)
I'm not a designer, but I have done a fair bit with HCI for whatever that's worth. I recently read "The Design of Everyday Things", which I understood to be a seminal text in the UX world. In it, Norman argues that no one-size-fits-all product actually fits all and leaving off 1% of the population is still a rather large number of people, so in the spirit of human-centered designed you should provide options or settings to support those people as well. I've been struggling to reconcile that with UX of many software products in the time since.

The modern UX ethos seems to be that settings indicate a failing of the product and if people don't like the path laid out for them, they're either wrong or they can go use something else. I think the book also makes the argument that constantly breaking workflows isn't very user-friendly either, but SaaS products routinely change their UI and workflows around. I suppose I can see the business justification for that, but that doesn't necessarily make it good UX.

Of course, Norman could just be wrong or my interpretation of his text could be wrong. Either way, something feels off to me with modern UX. I suppose if you've run actual user studies (not just A/B tests), then you have more contextual data than I do. But, I came away from reading the book really wishing more software products (both SaaS and the recent spat of "opinionated" frameworks/tools) followed the principles he championed.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by dkbrk on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @06:03PM (#30185453)
In the 1950s the United States Air Force wanted to figure out what pilot dimensions they should design to. Things like the exact position of the controls and position and size of the seat.

They measured over 4,000 pilots on 140 different dimensions. The hope was that they could design to the average pilot. What a Lieutenant named Gilbert Daniels found was that even if you only looked at the 10 most important dimensions, not a single actual pilot was within 15% of them all. Even just a handful of dimensions would fit almost no-one.

The consequence of this was that everything became adjustable.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by Terr_ on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @08:39PM (#30187238)
This is a great military-design story, along with the one about how you shouldn't put armor over the places where returning airplanes got shot, but the spots that were probably shot on the airplanes that never returned.
Re:Settings are not a design failure by mcdonje on Thursday February 03, 2022 @03:54AM (#30190262)
Survivorship bias. Or why you should take the advice of successful people with a grain of salt.
Re:Settings are not a design failure by joe_guy on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @09:42PM (#30187814)
This reminds me of the story about a statistician who drowned in a river that was an average of 3 feet deep.
Re:Settings are not a design failure by traviscj on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @07:39PM (#30186668)
Gotta love military-grade pragmatism.
Re:Settings are not a design failure by eru on Thursday February 03, 2022 @03:46AM (#30190187)
The military can be quite pragmatic, when they want to / need to.

Compare https://www.gwern.net/Backstop

Basically, war (or the threat of war) is what keeps militaries honest.

Competition and the threat of bankruptcy keeps companies on their toes.

Evolution keeps brains honest.

But those forces are rather blunt, so the day to day optimization has to proceed by other means.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by medstrom on Thursday February 03, 2022 @06:44AM (#30191252)
I would counter your evolution point. Evolution hates brains and wants them to be as small as possible, because they cost a lot of energy. Saving energy is the reason our brains rely so much on biases and heuristics.
Re:Settings are not a design failure by BeFlatXIII on Thursday February 03, 2022 @09:58AM (#30193225)
I’d like to find someone with more citations to back up this claim, but my hypothesis is that evolution favors the biggest, baddest, and most intelligent during stable times. In an unstable environment, small stupid generalists are what survive (thanks to their lower caloric needs).
Re:Settings are not a design failure by eru on Thursday February 03, 2022 @08:46PM (#30201787)
Eh, I don't think your claim about stable and unstable environments works in general. Things are just too diverse in this universe.

For example, just for humans a big, big driver of instability in the last few millennia has been other human brains.

Also keep in mind that (in-)stability and harshness of environment are too almost independent dimensions; if you see instability as something like the variance of outcomes.

Eg if some new opportunities open up, everything is strictly better (so the environment is less harsh), but variance might shoot up dramatically, perhaps because only the clever and resourceful can make use of the new opportunity.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by eru on Thursday February 03, 2022 @08:41PM (#30201745)
What you say is true, but it's not a counter: it's not at all at odds with what I suggested as far as I can tell.

Evolution only suffers brains to exists, if their advantage outweighs their costs. (Though keep in mind that the example I gave is a bit broader than just brains: any way for an organism to learn would fit the bill. That doesn't necessarily need to be a full sized brain, if fewer nerve cells do the trick, too.)

Similarly, smart and resourceful leaders for your company are only useful if their advantage outweighs their costs.

In any case, read the linked Gwern article for a deeper discussion. I'm just rehashing the main point here, Gwern has more to say.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by einpoklum on Thursday February 03, 2022 @10:21AM (#30193529)
> Basically, war (or the threat of war) is what keeps militaries honest.

It really does not.

> Competition and the threat of bankruptcy keeps companies on their toes.

Only some companies and some of the time.

And from the article:

> One defense of free markets notes the inability of non-market mechanisms to solve planning & optimization problems.

s/notes/falsely claims/

etc.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by eru on Thursday February 03, 2022 @08:52PM (#30201818)
>> Basically, war (or the threat of war) is what keeps militaries honest.

> It really does not.

I meant 'honest' in the sense of suffering if they bullshit themselves too hard. Not 'honest' in the sense of dealing with third-parties honestly.

Could you expand on your point?

>> Competition and the threat of bankruptcy keeps companies on their toes.

> Only some companies and some of the time.

Maybe. And that suggests that one goal of public policy should be to subject more companies more of the time to these pressures. Eg by abolishing tariffs, lowering barriers of foreign companies entering local markets or buying subsidiaries; allowing WalMart to become a bank, and banks to sell coffee etc.

>> One defense of free markets notes the inability of non-market mechanisms to solve planning & optimization problems.

> s/notes/falsely claims/

Not sure what you are complaining about here? If you read the rest of the introduction, it's rather clear from context that the author agrees with you here. (You don't even need to read the whole article for that insight.)

Re:Settings are not a design failure by ncmncm on Thursday February 03, 2022 @08:17PM (#30201560)
"Aspirational".

Belief that the mechanisms cited actually work, or at least its prima facie plausibility, is necessary to gain buy-in from people making decisions.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by yccs27 on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @04:54PM (#30184595)
It might be an over-adjustment from the software designers. In the early days of software, there was a larger fraction of power users, who wanted lots of options and were willing to fiddle with them. However, settings were often an excuse for not having sensible defaults, auto-detection, context-sensibility and other things for a fluid user experience.

Then came a wave of companies focusing on UX with great success, who often dropped settings to focus on "magic" functions etc. This means UX becomes correlated with less settings, but removing options does not help users - on the contrary! But unfortunately it gives the impression that settings are bad for UX.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by tormeh on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @06:39PM (#30185948)
Options do become dangerous to the team building the UI, though. It's easier to add another option and the keep the previous behavior as default than to do the hard work of figuring out what the best behavior is and then, if the new behavior is better, having the courage to change the default. Having no options is good for discipline as it removes the temptation of doing it the easy way.

There's also the problem of bugs. Software with more settings have more code paths. It's harder to test, and harder to refactor.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by BurningFrog on Thursday February 03, 2022 @12:44AM (#30189120)
Often options come from an inability to make decisions.

Should we do A or B? There are decent sounding arguments for both, so... let's dump that decision on the user, and move on!

Re:Settings are not a design failure by tremon on Thursday February 03, 2022 @05:40AM (#30190853)
Are the different laundry programs on a washing machine due to the design failure? My oven has separate knobs for temperature, heat distribution and grill; is that a design failure?

My car has both a steering wheel and a separate indicator light control; rain sensors and a manual wind screen wiper setting; light sensors and a manual setting for the headlights.

Are these all examples of designers' inability to make decisions?

Re:Settings are not a design failure by BurningFrog on Thursday February 03, 2022 @08:15AM (#30191993)
Those all seem reasonable designs to me.
Re:Settings are not a design failure by modo_mario on Thursday February 03, 2022 @09:09AM (#30192560)
Often when that decision is made it is taken away from the user. For example when "There are decent sounding arguments for both" it is often exactly the right choice to leave the option available if it doesn't come at too much cost.

Often used ones aside options are generally so hidden away anyway and thus the choice of a sensible or popular default can be made regardless without complicating the main UX.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by chii on Thursday February 03, 2022 @01:45AM (#30189462)
but if they are either mutually exclusive, or that one must be selected for the operation to work, then the designer/developer has to choose a default.

Often, the user don't even know what they want, and assume the default is the right choice, since it's "professionals" who have chosen it.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by KeepFlying on Thursday February 03, 2022 @04:19AM (#30190417)
Of often they'll be unaware the setting exists or even more likely be unaware that the setting even _might_ exist (and therefore don't even think to Google it).

Though often still theyll be afraid to look around at settings for fear of breaking things.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by fattegourmet on Thursday February 03, 2022 @08:25AM (#30192073)
not making the settings accessible is a design failure, imo
Re:Settings are not a design failure by nirvdrum on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @08:28PM (#30187133)
These are all valid concerns, but UX is purportedly concerned with serving the user. Reducing expenses is a competing concern. Together, they influence the design, but I don't think it follows that removing options leads to a better user experience. It could, but it's not a given.

> It's easier to add another option and the keep the previous behavior as default than to do the hard work of figuring out what the best behavior is and then, if the new behavior is better, having the courage to change the default. Having no options is good for discipline as it removes the temptation of doing it the easy way.

Ideally, you already knew what the trade-offs are before you built the feature. That should have come out of a user study. Human psychology simply doesn't change as substantially or as frequently as modern UX seems to suggest. Of course, things can fall through the crack and you can learn new things (even that previous conclusions were misguided). But, setting up all options as a choice you need to make for the user isn't necessarily helping the user experience. Some portion of the world prefers a 12 hour clock, some portion a 24. If you're adamant about only showing one of those and it's not configurable, you haven't helped the people with a different preference. You're inflicting your design on people without really taking their cultural norms into account. I'd go a step further and suggest changing defaults on people is something that should never be taken lightly because the user experience isn't a point-in-time thing. Changing workflows on existing users is a negative user experience in many cases.

As a concrete example, the ReasonML language forked into another language call Rescript. The code formatting tool in Rescript works almost identically to the one in ReasonML and that's by design, since it's supposed to facilitate migration. But, for whatever reason, the new formatter dropped the option to configure line width. So, if you used to set your line width to 120 characters, too bad. You have to use 80 characters or don't use the tool. Also, you need to chance your workflow and any configurations using the old flag.

Having the option to change a numeric variable is not some overwhelming burden. Forcing a fixed value isn't some courageous decision and it's not based on any human factors studies. It feels like an overreach of "opinionated software" that ultimately made my code harder to read (both languages use annotations that artificially increase line length). In the end I abandoned the migration, which I suppose means if they poll community members, they'll have something of an echo chamber.

> There's also the problem of bugs. Software with more settings have more code paths. It's harder to test, and harder to refactor.

This sounds like a failing of software engineering to me. To the extent that this field's raison d'être is to make computers perform work for humans with minimal fuss, our tooling should be geared towards supporting that goal. Dropping functionality that would be beneficial to people because it's more difficult to support sounds like trying to mold people to the machine rather than the machine to people. Certainly, you can have a product that functions, but it's similar to all the other things we have to put up with because a better option doesn't exist. This take isn't drawn from the book I mentioned, but I think the book has influenced my opinion on the matter. If settings/options lead to a better user experience but our tooling and development processes make adding settings/options difficult, we should try to improve our tools and processes.

With that said, we have to operate with the constraints we have. I just don't think we should convince ourselves it makes for a better user experience. That sort of thinking tends to snowball.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by ethbr0 on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @11:40PM (#30188764)
The central problem of modern UX is the same existential crisis architecture had in the 1980s -- whether it's a discipline of artists or scientists.

Nobody wants to admit they're a scientist who follows experimental data at cocktail parties. Everyone dreams of being introduced as a creative genius.

That yearning metastasizes into hubris, which ultimately leads to people making arbitrary changes, just because they can.

Which isn't UX's, or architecture's, fault as a discipline, but is to say that the scientific process runs perpendicularly to our egotistical, flawed selves. And that the only way to avoid it is constant vigilance and pragmatism about what's actually driving a change request.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by selestify on Thursday February 03, 2022 @12:15AM (#30188964)
So how did the debate in architecture get resolved?
Re:Settings are not a design failure by maccolgan on Thursday February 03, 2022 @02:16AM (#30189631)
It didn't, now we have Walt Disney Concert Hall.
Re:Settings are not a design failure by CRConrad on Saturday February 05, 2022 @06:32PM (#30227504)
> In the end I abandoned the migration, which I suppose means if they poll community members, they'll have something of an echo chamber.

Harking back to the survivorship-bias example above (reinforce warplanes in the bits that weren't all shot up on the ones that returned), if they define "community" as the users of the new language, they'll never realise line length was a significant problem: You and all the others like you aren't there to answer the question "Was line length in the code converter a problem for you?" with a resounding "Yes!", they'll get only "No" answers, and not realise what a huge impediment it is.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by blowski on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @08:31PM (#30187169)
Perhaps users early in their journey with your product want it to “just work”, because they don’t want to fiddle with loads of settings they don’t understand only to find your product is rubbish.

As they become more proficient with your product, if they can’t tweak behaviour in certain ways, they might consider changing to a different product. And that’s where settings become useful.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by da_chicken on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @08:56PM (#30187402)
> The modern UX ethos seems to be that settings indicate a failing of the product and if people don't like the path laid out for them, they're either wrong or they can go use something else. I think the book also makes the argument that constantly breaking workflows isn't very user-friendly either, but SaaS products routinely change their UI and workflows around. I suppose I can see the business justification for that, but that doesn't necessarily make it good UX.

Yeah, I think the issue is that once you've finished designing an interface or your software is feature complete, the company is faced with a problem: You don't have any actual work, but you absolutely need to maintain your expertise and sales.

What features can you really add to Excel at this point? What do you do when your market analysis says your application and interface are about the best they can possibly be? What do you do with your engineers when your product is, by nearly all measures, complete?

This is the problem that Google search has. And Microsoft's Windows and Office teams. We had basically everything on lock for quite awhile. Changes now are seldom improvements. They're just changes to justify the engineers' salaries that the company has to keep paying because maintaining that is a core competency. Moving all of them to a new project spoils your expertise in your own product so you can't just do that.

At this point, UX design for these products should probably shift to aesthetics, much like the auto industry did. And that's largely exactly what Windows has been since Windows 7. Aesthetic changes.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by dan-robertson on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @09:11PM (#30187556)
> What features can you really add to Excel at this point?

Aren’t there actually lots of good features Microsoft added in say the last 19 years (office 2003 having, for this argument, a perfectly capable Excel with all the features)? Off the top of my head:

- Ribbon and context-aware toolbox made it easier for infrequent or novice users.

- good default styles for tables, which is what lots of people actually use Excel for

- Better support for actual tables (ie defined extendable ranges of cells)

- OFFSET/MATCH instead of VLOOKUP (maybe this was a culture change. Not sure when OFFSET or MATCH were introduced)

- improvements to default graph appearance (though I still dislike them for just showing the data)

- Lambda functions

- Relational models for data

- bigger spreadsheets

- flash fill(?) which is a magical programming by example thing

- fancy conditional formatting with colour changing smoothly with values

- possibly faster evaluation. I don’t know if it was actually improved

- maybe someday: collaborative editing

I’d like to point out that some improvements were made for power users and others for more ordinary users.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by CRConrad on Saturday February 05, 2022 @06:41PM (#30227574)
> - Ribbon and context-aware toolbox made it easier for infrequent or novice users.

But did they have to make it worse for nonnovice users by removing the old menus and toolbars?

> - good default styles for tables, which is what lots of people actually use Excel for

An Excel sheet is already in and of itself a table.

> - Relational models for data

Yeah, thanks, we already have RDBMSes for that. Turning Excel into an RDBMS (or an RDBMS into Excel) only gives you a jackalope: Worthless both as a jackrabbit and as an antelope.

> - flash fill(?) which is a magical programming by example thing

You mean that thing that resolutely refuses to be useful whenever I try to get some "magic" from it?

> I’d like to point out that some improvements were made for power users and others for more ordinary users.

More like against power users in many cases, I'd say. (See the first point.)

Re:Settings are not a design failure by jaclaz on Thursday February 03, 2022 @11:10AM (#30194212)
offset/match have been there since day 1 AFAICR, that is Excel 4.0 or so, as well as index/match.

Or at least they exist just fine in Spread32 which is a nice tiny spreadsheet tool that was first released in 1999 and born with Excel 4.0 compatibility target.

I believe it is more the "culture change" you mention, the "new" function is Xlookup, introduced recently:

https://www.powerusersoftwares.com/post/xlookup-just-killed-...

Re:Settings are not a design failure by DocTomoe on Thursday February 03, 2022 @02:53AM (#30189843)
> What features can you really add to Excel at this point?

The option to not guess the format of input data as calendar dates comes to mind.

Excel is a product so complex I doubt it will ever run out of things to improve.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by haihaibye on Thursday February 03, 2022 @06:26AM (#30191134)
Turns out it was easier for the fields of biology and medicine to rename human genes

https://www.bionews.org.uk/page_151346

Re:Settings are not a design failure by nephrite on Thursday February 03, 2022 @06:41AM (#30191232)
When you added all necessary features and don't know what to add you start to optimize and imporove existing features. Really, Excel could work faster and eat less memory.
Re:Settings are not a design failure by CRConrad on Saturday February 05, 2022 @06:35PM (#30227527)
> And that's largely exactly what Windows has been since Windows 7. Aesthetic changes.

Yeah, sure, but why do they all have to be for the worse?

(Probably because it was already as good as it could get in that respect too. And then what do you do?)

Re:Settings are not a design failure by feanaro on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @06:39PM (#30185939)
It is a no-brainer that software must, in fact, have settings and the modern UX principles are heavily in the wrong.

Having too many options is a curse too however, so that doesn't mean that one should add options without thought nor that sane defaults are unimportant (in fact, they are extremely important). Like most good things in life, the solution is not in either extreme but in the golden middle.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by bo1024 on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @07:07PM (#30186300)
It's simple. Most software today is not created to serve the user. It is created to accomplish certain goals (e.g. obtaining money, attention, data, or prestige from the user) and only serves the user as incidental to accomplish those goals.
Re:Settings are not a design failure by nirvdrum on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @08:49PM (#30187332)
I think that's probably true in the SaaS world. I'm seeing the same mentality take hold in the open source world with "opinionated" or "curated" software. Tools that have limited options or actively remove options and expect the developer to conform to them. I think it's being driven by this same notion of "options = bad" that we see in UX in general, but maybe they're coincidental, but unrelated phenomena.
Re:Settings are not a design failure by SAI_Peregrinus on Thursday February 03, 2022 @08:45PM (#30201778)
I agree with this. Most software doesn't need to be "opinionated" and would be made better with more options and carefully chosen defaults.

I think it's sometimes appropriate to reduce options, mainly in cryptography libraries. There the library should provide all the secure options and none of the wildly insecure options, maybe with some "secure if used correctly" options behind some heavy warnings. Likewise for anything else that might similarly be used in safety-critical situations: it MUST be easy to use, and hard to misuse. That tends to mean having fewer options, and making very careful choices about defaults.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by eternalban on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @05:08PM (#30184777)
Haven't read the book but per your comment it occurs that assuming the reality of the 'left off 1%', it is possible that these are distinct market segments. Did Norman or anyone else ever try to correlate demographic aspects with product mis-fit? In other words, the disconnect is possibly at the market/product level and the same unsatisfied with defaults 1% may be perfectly happy with another product that is designed for them (thus having few knobs). Not asserting this but wonder if this is indeed the case.
Re:Settings are not a design failure by p_l on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @06:12PM (#30185556)
You know the saying about how majority of users of certain very powerful packages only use a tiny fraction of available functions?

Allegedly Microsoft found out that the problem was that the features covered by that fraction were wildly different in case of MS Office. That is, any cut down, simplification, etc. would result in huge amount of disappointed users, because the used featuresets didn't really overlap outside of certain core. At the same time trying to package it into market segments might just mean you end up with too small niches.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by mark-r on Thursday February 03, 2022 @12:40PM (#30195698)
It wasn't just Microsoft. Joel Spolsky had a lot to say on the subject: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2001/03/23/strategy-letter-iv...
Re:Settings are not a design failure by XorNot on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @05:25PM (#30184962)
The other problem is that each thing your decide should definitely be "this way and no other" is probably shaving off a different 1% of the population.

I maintain that the Ribbon on office is this problem writ large: I'm sure Microsoft did a lot of user studies, and I'm equally sure that by averaging out all those results they managed to prioritise nothing useful to any actual business - hence why the product feels bizarrely unprofessional these days and is now impossible to configure to suit any specific type of writing.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by p_l on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @06:14PM (#30185585)
The real trick with Ribbon is that in MS Office it makes it somewhat easier to find functionality (the search interface helps with that) and it tries to expose keyboard shortcuts easier.

AFAIK the research behind the ribbon showed that 1) there was no way to find features easily 2) Main menu was too cluttered and undiscoverable.

Of course if you actually found the features you wanted before that, it was a big negative change.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by mark-r on Thursday February 03, 2022 @12:45PM (#30195790)
Paradoxically the ribbon makes harder the one thing it was supposed to make easier. Nothing lines up, so a visual scan of the whole thing is very hard to accomplish.
Re:Settings are not a design failure by kaetemi on Thursday February 03, 2022 @08:20AM (#30192034)
In the old interface it may have been hard to find things. But once you found them, they were always in the same place. With modern interfaces, everything jumps around and hides itself depending on some obscure context and the window size.
Re:Settings are not a design failure by cuteboy19 on Thursday February 03, 2022 @12:18AM (#30188982)
An easy fix would have been adding tool search functionality like intellij
Re:Settings are not a design failure by p_l on Thursday February 03, 2022 @04:52AM (#30190612)
A crucial part of Ribbon, as implemented by MS Office, is a search interface.

It could be nicer like intellij, but I suspect they hit some threshold of changing keyboard shortcuts and end user reaction.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by CRConrad on Saturday February 05, 2022 @06:47PM (#30227605)
> A crucial part of Ribbon, as implemented by MS Office, is a search interface.

If the search interface was what was missing, why the fuck didn't they just add that to the old menus and toolbars? (Seems to work on many Macintosh applications, doesn't it? And probably some Windows ones too.)

Re:Settings are not a design failure by p_l on Monday February 07, 2022 @07:12AM (#30243712)
Because it wasn't the only thing. Ribbon specifically on MS Office was informed by a lot of data gathered from users and attempting to make functionality more visible (also, it kinda promotes keyboard shortcuts - hit alt and look at ribbon)

Of course a lot of applications later "embraced" Ribbon without all that preparation, and to be quite honest, I don't hear much complaints about Ribbon in Office - outside of nostalgia it's rare.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by CRConrad on Monday February 07, 2022 @01:29PM (#30248948)
Yeah, well, as far as I am concerned, they pretty much failed on the other bits. You not hearing many complaints about it any more is probably because most of us have stopped mentioning it (outside of discussions specifically about it), because nobody gave a shit then either, any more than you do now.
Re:Settings are not a design failure by degeberg on Thursday February 03, 2022 @02:58AM (#30189874)
One such example might be accessibility settings. Such settings are likely only used by a small subset of users, but it might be critical for such users.

Many modern video games start by displaying such settings. The defaults probably suit most users just fine, but being able to easily scale UI text is probably very useful for people with poor vision.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by munchbunny on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @07:02PM (#30186251)
I don't think that he necessarily doesn't address settings. I think it fits into the overall ethos pretty well: it should require as little mental energy as possible to figure out what the settings do and why you would use them.

Where things get murky and become a matter of judgement and data is whether you are exposing settings gratuitously and therefore just making things confusing, or whether you are not offering enough settings and therefore not addressing common use cases.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by nfw2 on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @06:13PM (#30185564)
I don't think there is some absolute law of design* that says all users must be supported. If a startup is still struggling to reach profitability, they generally will invest all their efforts into supporting one niche really well, not create universally useful products.

*There are actual laws that say those without disability must be supported, and I think companies should strive to meet those, but that's more of a moral argument

Re:Settings are not a design failure by nirvdrum on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @07:08PM (#30186314)
The point or question I was raising was specifically about UX. Design, which includes UX, isn't done in a vacuum. There's many competing interests and environmental considerations that ultimately influence a product. Norman spends a good deal of time reinforcing that idea, I think mostly to drive home the point that reality doesn't match the platonic ideal. That's what I was alluding when I said "I suppose I can see the business justification for that."

Carving out a niche when getting started is probably quite prudent. But, that doesn't mean it's a good user experience. There's a lot of retorts in this comment section about how any amount of settings is tantamount to total design failure. I think that's too reductive and I'm trying to reconcile that research on the topic.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by nfw2 on Thursday February 03, 2022 @01:28AM (#30189367)
It seems weird to talk about something as "good user experience" or "bad user experience" in a universal sense without a specific use case in mind. Something can be a good experience for one set of users and a poor experience for others.
Re:Settings are not a design failure by maccolgan on Thursday February 03, 2022 @02:21AM (#30189667)
Settings allow you to customize a software beyond its developer-intended path, while that doesn't take away from the "default" path, it maximizes the total amount of good experience. That's how it's universal.
Re:Settings are not a design failure by nfw2 on Thursday February 03, 2022 @12:37PM (#30195643)
My objection was to the view that supporting only 99% of users is "bad" in some absolute way. Obviously 100% is better than 99%, but good and bad are relative, and 99% might be good enough when considering the actual needs of the product that's being developed.
Re:Settings are not a design failure by mark-r on Thursday February 03, 2022 @12:30PM (#30195526)
The customization process becomes part of the UX though. That doesn't automatically make it good.
Re:Settings are not a design failure by mitchdoogle on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @07:36PM (#30186639)
It's probably not a coincidence that fewer settings means less complex software, and less costly to produce
Re:Settings are not a design failure by ed on Wednesday February 02, 2022 @07:49PM (#30186789)
In my experience it's the exact opposite. It's almost always easier to leave product decisions to the user and add a new setting. And if you have very few settings, your software needs to "just work," which means quietly handling edge cases you would normally rely on the user to troubleshoot.
Re:Settings are not a design failure by GoblinSlayer on Thursday February 03, 2022 @02:14AM (#30189623)
>if people don't like the path laid out for them, they're either wrong or they can go use something else

This is a reasonable limitation. If you implement infinite features, you end up with a bloatware, so some features can't be implemented, and users should use something else.

Re:Settings are not a design failure by numpad0 on Thursday February 03, 2022 @02:22AM (#30189679)
It’s not about features, parent comment is arguing about adjustments. Sure you don’t need 65535 choice of colors for a chair; but you do need the height to be adjustable(ideally within -327.68 to +327.68 mm).
Re:Settings are not a design failure by GoblinSlayer on Thursday February 03, 2022 @03:11AM (#30189954)
But should it have wheels?
Re:Settings are not a design failure by jcelerier on Thursday February 03, 2022 @04:28AM (#30190476)
No you're right, a wheeled chair would not be really useful, would it