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Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by herodoturtle on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:55PM (#29998253)
What are some (paid) alternatives to using G-Suite for emails?

Context:

We're a small but relatively old SaaS company.

Been happily using G Suite's free tier since day 1 - only for email.

This announcement is a tad disappointing, but as other commenters have said, 10 years of a free product is pretty great.

We'll likely upgrade to Google's paid tier, but out of curiosity, since we're switching to a paid service, we may as well explore alternatives too.

Just need cloud email accounts for around 8 users, and with minimal risk of being flagged as spam.

Thanks!

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by wodenokoto on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:01PM (#29998370)
If you’re not using the productivity suite (docs, drive, sheets and whatnot) why not go with the little guy and use Fastmail? $5/user with 30gb or 100gb per user for $9/month

Their support replies faster than google :)

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by SergeAx on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @03:23PM (#29999486)
Why migrate to Fastmail for $5/user, if one can keep their installation of G Suite for $6/user?
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by nacs on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @03:33PM (#29999623)
1) You can stop feeding personal data into the Google (advertisement) ecosystem

2) Google is notorious for killing off services or changing their agreements at a moments notice like here so there is a chance they'll drop their offering or increase prices.

3) Google support is either terrible or nonexistent (unless you're lucky enough to get your complaint to the HN frontpage).

I'm an affected user and I plan to put in the effort to migrate -- I only use it for email on a custom domain and have been doing regular backups (using gmvault) in case Google changed their mind so moving to a new service should be a breeze.

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by gowld on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @04:48PM (#30000719)
1) Business accounts aren't used for advertising.

2) Not paid business accounts.

3) Not for paid business accounts.

For 20 years people have complained of 1,2,3 for free accounts, and said that they'd prefer to pay to avoid these issues. Now that there's an option....

https://workspace.google.com/learn-more/security/security-wh...

----

Our philosophy Google Workspace customers own their customer data, not Google. Customer data that Google Workspace organizations put into our systems is theirs, and we do not scan it for advertisements. We offer our customers a detailed Data Processing Amendment that describes our commitment to protecting customer data. Furthermore, if customers delete their data, we commit to deleting it from our systems within 180 days.

No advertising in Google Workspace There is no advertising in the Google Workspace Core Services, and we have no plans to change this in the future. Google does not collect, scan or use data in Google Workspace Core Services for advertising purposes. Customer administrators can restrict access to Non-Core Services from the Google Workspace Admin console. Google indexes customer data to provide beneficial services, such as spam filtering, virus detection, spellcheck and the ability to search for emails and files within an individual account.

Limited data use

Google does not use any of your data for any purpose except to provide you with the relevant Google Workspace service. For example, when customers use the Cloud Translation API, Google will not make the content of the text that you send available to the public, or share it with anyone else, except as necessary to provide the Cloud Translation API service.

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by SergeAx on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @04:37PM (#30000549)
1) valid point, but how can I be sure another email provider won't do just the same, or even worse? At least Google is sitting on it's data using it to profit for itself. Smaller actors are just wholesaling everything they can reach.

2) I don't agree with "moments notice" sentiment. 3 months are quite enough for most users (and they can buy more time for a relatively small price). The free lunch was off the menu for more than nine years, I am actually surprised they gave us so much time.

3) There are replies around this post that for paying users Google support is significantly better. Good opportunity to check if it is really so.

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by grey-area on Thursday January 20, 2022 @03:52AM (#30006459)
Because the other service only does email as a service, so if they do the same their business folds, and the other service is likely to have far better support (which tends to 0 at google)

It is far more likely Google will decide to change the terms unilaterally on their customers or discontinue a service altogether - their business is advertising, not email.

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by wombat-man on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:57PM (#29999138)
Yeah I'm happy with fastmail and it just makes it less confusing when I'm doing stuff online. Instead of having 2 google accounts, one legacy and one custom domain. My custom domain is a completely different site unattached to the entire google ecosystem.

I already deal with this enough at work. I don't like having to switch between g accounts all the time.

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by grey-area on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:18PM (#29998598)
+1 for FastMail, been a happy user for a while.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by prirun on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @09:54PM (#30003870)
Fastmail discounts for longer terms. I'm on the 30GB plan because of a custom domain and it was $90 for 2 years in Nov 2021, or $3.75/mo. Now I see it's $95 for 2 years so they've had a recent price increase apparently.

Fastmail does give you access to your 30GB via FTP or WebDAV. It also has a web-based file uploading tool. Then you can create links to share files or folders with others, like a picture album. I did this a little just to try it out, and it was very straightforward. Whereas I could never figure out how to do it with iCloud and gave up.

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by herodoturtle on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:12PM (#29998531)
Fastmail looks great, thanks for the recommendation.

And I see they support custom domains too:

https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/360058753394-Cus...

Ticks all our boxes (admittedly our needs are very basic).

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by dangoor on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:34PM (#29998815)
I switched from gmail to Fastmail a couple of years ago and the gmail import worked really well, too!
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by herodoturtle on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:36PM (#29998834)
This is a really helpful tip, thanks!
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by iofiiiiiiiii on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @04:53PM (#30000776)
Does Fastmail do mailing lists? That's the one thing I use in GSuite other than the basic email.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by nmjenkins on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @07:15PM (#30002410)
We do, but it's a separate product: https://www.topicbox.com/
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by herodoturtle on Thursday January 20, 2022 @01:46AM (#30005605)
I love that you guys are monitoring this :-)
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by Andrew_nenakhov on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:14PM (#29998552)
Does Google support ever reply???!
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by zippergz on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:18PM (#29998606)
I think they have always replied to me (as a paying customer). Now, whether their reply has any relevance to the question I asked, let alone solves my problem, is another issue entirely. I have at times wondered if they just have a random reply generator that doesn't look at anything except the subject line of the request.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by colinmhayes on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:21PM (#29998640)
Not unless you work for google.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by nacs on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @03:35PM (#29999659)
They also take action if you can get your question/complaint to the HN frontpage..
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by area51org on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:15PM (#29998562)
Rarely if ever, AFAIK.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by dekoruotas on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:02PM (#29998388)
In my case for a personal email account I'll try DNS email forwarding:

https://improvmx.com/

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by punkspider on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:11PM (#29998520)
Also an https://improvmx.com user.

Recently Cloudflare also started enabling email forwarding. I believe it's still in Beta, and with the sites I've got in Cloudflare I got approved 2 weeks-ish after applying.

As for sending emails, I think you can use something like how ImprovMX suggests https://improvmx.com/guides/send-emails-using-gmail/

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by techsupporter on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @04:03PM (#30000090)
This looks a lot like a direct clone of https://forwardemail.net/, except that ImprovMX isn't open source. I wonder which came first?

I like simplelogin.io (also open source, so can be selfhosted) because the aliases can be used to send and receive, though you do have to set the domain up on their platform first.

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by cx42net on Friday January 21, 2022 @03:49AM (#30020886)
I can answer that easily (I'm the founder of ImprovMX). Forwardemail was created well after us (ImprovMX goes back to 2013).

We are not Opensource, but that doesn't mean we track user's email (we don't, we wrote about it: https://improvmx.com/are-you-reading-my-emails/). On the contrary, screaming to anyone that one uses Opensource doesn't mean they respect user's privacy (like Forwardemail does): take their way of forwarding for instance: you need to add your email in the DNS settings, publicly available... they have a odd definition of privacy.

And don't get me started on their homepage full of misleading messages ... ;)

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by uallo on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:33PM (#29998799)
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by arbitrage on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @03:20PM (#29999442)
Didn't proton's compliance canary die not too long ago?
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by wayoutthere on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @04:19PM (#30000299)
Sure, but let’s also be realistic that any service large / secure enough to trust your email to will also be large enough to have drawn the attention of entities that can force them to do things against their will.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by herodoturtle on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:50PM (#29999046)
Thanks will check this out. Hand't heard of them before.

Slightly more expensive than Fastmail but seems like better security / privacy considerations.

That said, the space per inbox seems far more limited.

Seems we have some interesting options here!

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by beagle3 on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @06:09PM (#30001806)
IIRC migadu.com is $9/month, but that includes essentially unlimited domains and mailboxes (but only mail, nothing else, which seems to fit your use case).

Which means, if you like to set up new domains for specific projects, there's no extra cost (other than registering the domain of course).

Have never had a spam problem, but they stress that they don't consider themselves mission critical.

I went with fastmail for my personal email, after a small-ish provider I had used (and liked very much!) between 2001 and 2018 was unable for a few month, in 2018, to avoid getting my mails sorted by gmail into spam -- no delivery problems since mail. Alas, despite wishing to support the smaller players, silent non-delivery of emails is a huge problem.

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by max49 on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @10:41PM (#30004259)
>but they stress that they don't consider themselves mission critical

I'm new to shopping for email hosting and using your own domain. I know sending emails and not get flagged as spam is a hard, but is there any risks when it comes to receiving emails?

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by beagle3 on Thursday January 20, 2022 @06:51AM (#30007719)
Only operational risks as far as I know (uptime, routings, network speed, tls certificate validity, ….)

How hard it is depends on how many nines you want in the uptime guarantee.

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by snowl on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @08:02PM (#30002854)
It's actually only 19 dollars a year :)
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by petemir on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:59PM (#29998325)
I used zoho for a long time, free tier.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by MPSimmons on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:00PM (#29998352)
I use Zoho for some personal projects, and enjoy it. It's very full featured with a la carte pricing for additional services.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by ValentineC on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @04:06PM (#30000139)
I used Zoho for an event's domain, and didn't like how they removed POP/IMAP for their free version without any prior notice.

I'd trust them not to pull the rug any further even less than Google.

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by mdcfrancis on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:40PM (#29998885)
Amazon WorkMail, part of the AWS suite of tools, $4/month/user last I looked. If you host your domain on route53 setup is painless. It's an exchange server compatible service and provides some MDM functionality.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by herodoturtle on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:47PM (#29998981)
Thanks, will check it out!

For those that are reading this too and are curious:

https://aws.amazon.com/workmail/

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by searchableguy on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @03:41PM (#29999787)
Highly recommended against m365 unless you are a big company with a separate IT department.

I setup a trial with plan to use it long term but I got locked out of my own admin account with no way in (I use a password manager, yes) and the support page that was supposed to work kept crashing my browser.

Their Twitter account redirected me to that support page after explaining the situation to them.

The quality of the service itself is horrible for an individual to manage compared to gsuite or any other service I have touched.

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by cpach on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:57PM (#29998275)
Fastmail.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by jason0597 on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:59PM (#29998327)
Seconding Fastmail. I pay about £45/yr for it and I am very satisfied with all the features it provides. What I most value however is the no-bullshit attitude from the Fastmail team. No random killing of features, no ads, no sudden UI changes.

It might feel simple and old, but I like it simple and old.

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by herodoturtle on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:41PM (#29998899)
Heya we're looking into migrating to Fastmail based on the recommendations here (including yours).

Have you had any issues with your outgoing mails being flagged as spam?

That's a (perhaps slightly paranoid) concern of ours, given Google's clout.

And to be clear, I'm not talking about spammy / bulk emails. I mean your standard day-to-day personalised emails (customer support etc.).

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by techsupporter on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @04:05PM (#30000106)
I use Fastmail for personal e-mail for myself and two family members and where I work uses Microsoft's Office 365. I've never had issues with mails I send from Fastmail landing in spam, even to Google users, and I prefer their webmail UI over Outlook for the web or whatever it's called these days.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by Hard_Space on Monday January 24, 2022 @01:17AM (#30054219)
I just moved my domain mail to Fastmail, and everything arrives perfectly. I'm annoyed that I was bullied into this by the fact that 'unknown' mail servers are third-class citizens, but at least the problem is solved.

Some paranoid thread in me fears that Google will find a problem with Fastmail's IP range and credentials this spring (among others), in order to consolidate the Gmail upgrade cash avalanche, but I'm hoping that's just me with my tinfoil hat on too tight.

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by troutwine on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @04:19PM (#30000290)
I've been a Fastmail customer for years and have never had an issue with being flagged.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by klaussilveira on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:12PM (#29998523)
Fastmail is great. Clean, simple pricing. Efficient, stable. It never gets in your way.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by killerpopiller on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:57PM (#29998273)
I am happy with MS 365
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by sigzero on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @03:23PM (#29999474)
I already pay yearly for the apps. I can roll that cost in and it might be fine.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by grzaks on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:59PM (#29998323)
We have migrated 150+ accounts from GWorkspace to M365 last year. Better price, more features.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by TheSocialAndrew on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @03:03PM (#29999199)
We're switching over to Zoho for our latest startup. If you have more than one Google account the switching between personal and business is a nightmare. Some features are unavailable for one or the other, and it keeps switching between the two accounts seemingly randomly. It constantly asks for a password when you want to switch back. It's more headache than it is worth to be signed in to Google.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by tipsysquid on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @04:05PM (#30000111)
The only issue I have with Zoho is that their calendar solution falls well behind Google's. Between the scheduling, the Android widget, and notifications, it just really doesn't feel to have the same clarity as Google's.

Could just be my experience, but I'm considering moving back to Google for my personal email just for that.

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by fbn79 on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:48PM (#29998999)
Aruba. Biggest hosting provider in italy has a very competitive mail service. Domain + 5 mailbox x 1gb each at 9 euro/year. At 20 Euro year you can create unlimited mailboxes x 1gb each. https://hosting.aruba.it/en/email.aspx
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by thinkindie on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:59PM (#29999155)
I don't think you can compare in any way Aruba mail service against Gmail. Even just for the webmail or the mobile app.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by fbn79 on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @03:41PM (#29999786)
Why not? It's an IMAP service, you could use it with the client you prefer. Obvius GMAIL far way better for mail classification (promotional, transactional, spam). But I doubt any other service can do better than GMAIL with features.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by thinkindie on Monday January 24, 2022 @05:45PM (#30065152)
gmail webmail client and spam/classification filters are already something above by far any other competitor. This is the added value I would like to see in a mailbox, not just another IMAP service.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by yannikyeo on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @06:03PM (#30001724)
iCloud+ purelymail mxroute Migadu Mailbox.org
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by pronoiac on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @10:06PM (#30003966)
I've had exploring mxroute as a low-priority todo item for a while, I like that pricing is roughly per gigabyte, not per domain or per user. Do you use it? Does it deliver to gmail and others ok, or does it go to spam?
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by z0f on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @11:22PM (#30004588)
I've used it for years, no issues with delivery to gmail or outlook.com / o365. They've got a bit about their delivery system mentioned here: https://mxroute.com/docs/#/Presales/ipreputation

It's pretty basic in terms of webmail/core functionality but it receives and delivers mail well from the various IMAP clients I use, which is all I need.

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by 422long on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:57PM (#29998288)
Also looking for recommended paid/simple alternatives. Email only. Been using it for family email on a custom domain and am not looking forward to funding a dozen accounts every month for eternity.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by SergeAx on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @03:26PM (#29999512)
G Suite Business Starter is $6/user. Even if you find something viable for, say, $3/user (and I really doubt so), it just not worth the fuss with migration.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by rssoconnor on Friday January 21, 2022 @07:35AM (#30022533)
From what I've read, Rackspace Email is $3 per user per month.

And iCloud+ is $1/month for up to 5 users for 5 domains with up to 3 addresses per domain per user.

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by SergeAx on Friday January 21, 2022 @07:54AM (#30022765)
Is it available for customers without iPhones?
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by lmz on Friday January 21, 2022 @11:06AM (#30025412)
You'll need an Apple device to set up Family Sharing (for the 5 users part), but if you don't need that you can set it up in a browser.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by rssoconnor on Friday January 21, 2022 @11:40AM (#30025981)
Fortunately one of my 5 has an Apple device.

I haven't gone through the process yet, but it additionally looks like I will need to borrow a Mac or Windows machine to start up iCloud Email. Once it is enabled I should be able to use IMAP or their web client.

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by SergeAx on Friday January 21, 2022 @01:17PM (#30027632)
Okay, so I have to count the device cost in. And I don't see an official Android client in Google Play. Seems like showstopper for me.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by rssoconnor on Monday January 24, 2022 @01:25PM (#30061708)
From what I've read, on Android you just go to Settings / Passwords & accounts / Add account / Personal (IMAP) and you can use ICloud email through IMAP.

That said, if you don't have anyone in your family with an Apple product, this iCloud+ thing may not be right for you.

Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by autumnbuzz on Saturday January 22, 2022 @12:04PM (#30038494)
Rackspace has a 10 user minimum.
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by brnt on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:27PM (#29998714)
Pretty satisfied with Postale.io
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by pcarolan on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:11PM (#29998514)
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by fomine3 on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @08:32PM (#30003111)
I found there are very few mentions about hey.com despite here's HN. Anyone still use Hey?
Re:Google requiring all ‘G Suite legacy free edition’ users ... by awill on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @10:37PM (#30004230)
I think we all signed up for a trial, thought it was cool, but didn't want to spend $100/year.