What happened is terrible and is part of a much broader natural disaster. Trying to turn this into some shallow Amazon shaming is unfortunate.
Amazon kept a warehouse open and operational, including bringing a new shift in, during a Tornado watch for the area. (this is in the article)
edit r.e. this point: other commenters have noted that while the circumstances for a tornado arising are known in advance, the tornado appears quickly enough that realistically the only option if workers are in the building at that point is to move them to a designated area of the building that's more protected. There isn't any evidence of this happening from what I have seen from the media or Amazon.
Amazon workers are penalized heavily for being late or missing shifts and the systems for calling out can be unreliable or your request can be rejected outright. Workers are also heavily penalized for Time-Off-Task and its unclear that the policy or tracking software acknowledges seeking shelter during a tornado warning as not TOT. [1][2][hundreds of anecdotal accounts across the internet]
Amazon has not released any evidence that they informed workers there wouldn't be a penalty for a no show despite having made public statements about the incident, nor have any workers who survived attested to that. (Impossible to provide a source for a lack of evidence).
and for opinion:
Even if Amazon had told workers they were free not to come in, I believe it is the responsibility of Amazon to determine the safety of their building relative to the inclement weather which they have clearly failed to do.
What else is there left unanswered about the situation, in your view?
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/06/15/us/amazon-wor...
[2] https://twitter.com/LCampbell_35/status/1469815411462000647
The bigger issue imho is that these employees don't seem to have been in a tornado shelter during a tornado warning?
Sadly, the preponderance of evidence -- specifically the timing of the numerous severe tornado warnings in the region, starting as early as 4 hours earlier -- and the company's unfortunate track record during other severe weather events (such as Hurricane Ida) -- does suggest there is a significant chance Amazon was too slow to warn its employees of the impending danger as this particular calamity was unfolding.
More investigation will be needed of course -- but the initial indications do appear to be quite disturbing.
I'm an Amazon worker in Kentucky, tornado hit 2 miles from my house and I physically couldn't get to work for my shift. The ERC team told me that they had no record of tornadoes in Kentucky and couldn't help me with not getting attendance time reduced for today
https://twitter.com/LCampbell_35/status/1469815411462000647
The "fuck you, prove to us otherwise" attitude of the ERC when there's obviously a major catastrophe unfolding in the region is in itself quite revealing of the companies overall sense of priorities.
I can’t answer your question exactly but I have been in a warehouse when a tornado warning was issued and the warehouse in the path of the storm. They got everyone together and put us all against the strongest wall furthest from the approaching tornado. (It lifted before reaching us)
And you know that how precisely?
Source: my phone blew up with 3+ emergency alerts starting at around 8. (here's a NWS tweet from 7:45 -- you can see what we were dealing with: https://twitter.com/NWSStLouis/status/1469483383994691586)
Things can get out of control quicker (15-20 minutes warning is usually as close as it gets), but I think it's definitely reasonable to suspect negligence in this instance. There are two possibilities, imo:
1. They had enough time to get people to shelter, and chose not to 2. The facility wasn't up to par
When there's tornadoes about, the first thing companies should tell their workers is 'Find somewhere safe to shelter, don't worry about the job or reducing damage to the company. Just make sure you're safe' (and if located somewhere known for tornadoes, also providing adequate shelter) is the bare minimum that companies should be expected to do/provide.
Six people died in a <Company> warehouse. This shouldn't have happened, regardless of <Company>.
I worked in the Midwest for a number of years. Every time there was a tornado siren, an attempt would be made to alert everyone in the building. We were to go to the shelter in the basement and/or 1st floor.
Only a minority would actually get up and move there. Worse, many would go to wall size windows to see the storm outside. There's no way security can force the majority of workers to move. All they can do is walk around and warn. Did people not go because they were worried about productivity dropping? No! They didn't go because they hear these sirens often enough (a few times every summer) and simply ignored them, because the odds of getting hurt appear low.[1]
So to me, reading people imply that they got killed because of capitalism is ludicrous. Simpler explanations exist.
Also, tornado shelters are not perfect.
Also, tornado shelters at work locations often are safer than ones at home. I know when I lived there, I always preferred to be in the office when a tornado siren hit. My home didn't have a basement, and you're not supposed to be in any room that has a window. That meant I should be either in the kitchen or the bathroom. At least the shelter at work was much bigger - you could walk around, etc.
[1] For that city, a tornado touches down there once every twenty years, and even that will be in a limited part of town. Not saying this is a good rationale, but humans will be humans.
> So to me, reading people imply that they got killed because of capitalism is ludicrous.
Take a look at people who aren't brainwashed by capitalism if you think this is ludicrous--kids in elementary school. Most of them are happy for emergency drills as they waste class time. They get to chat with their peers and go for a walk instead of sitting in class.
It is adults who have been coerced into caring about the company's/there own productivity who would not want an on-the-clock break, especially, in my experience, in this type of manual-labor-for-a-big-corp situation.
Would you really rather literally mop the floor for Amazon if you could, worry free and on the clock, chill in a room during a tornado warning?
And this isn't some generalized indictment of capitalism, which I personally believe to be highly effective at harnessing the whole of humanity towards social progress, just an observation about the realities of this type of situation.
Most children are happy to not do work in general. Most children are happy not trying to save food for the winter as well. It's up to you to decide if encouraging stocking for the winter is evil or not.
You definitely don't know this. Please don't speak to the mindset of people that just died when you have no idea.
every single one of us (employees of large companies) are completely and wholly expendable in the eyes of the people who run the companies we work for, when compared against potentially lost profit.
we all know this. we work at these places anyway because there are no places to work which are not like this.
not only are we expendable, we only have the tiny value that we have as assets because the law strongly encourages employers to view us as having some value. if the risk of profit loss outweighs the risk of paying to recover from personnel loss, people are gonna regularly die working for that company. leadership doesn't even call things like this "loss" but the "cost of doing business".
> 14 people died at an Amazon facility
This is false. From the article that you linked:
> Even as floods that have killed at least 14 swept through the city, warehouses remained open.
Unless you think every business should shut down every time there is a tornado watch issued, which hell they issue those like candy the entirety of spring and summer around here we would never get anything done if we shut down for every tornado watch
The question should be: was there a tornado warning, and was there any employee not in a tornado room?
I am not sure how you think that disproves some of the comments in and around this thread saying people were "not allowed to call in" or "why was the facility open" or other things like that
Warnings happen minutes before, and last 15-30 mins, maybe an hour. These are not long lasting events.
Notice you did not say that your workplace "shut down" or "told employees to go home" or anything like that
They are to shelter in place, Arriving employee go to the shelter, employee getting off shift are prohibited from leaving. That is normal procedure at most companies
See my comment here:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29526164
It was mandatory where I worked too. That most people didn't seek shelter was not a fault of the employer.
Yes, you can't force everyone, but I would bet that most people would take shelter given the right incentives/exception from negative consequences.
As I said, people are people. Most people I know drive over the speed limit, because everyone does it, and because the likelihood of it hurting them is low. Same principle here. I'm all for everyone going to the shelter, just as I'm all for severe penalties for going over the speed limit. Most people, though, are OK going over the speed limit but not OK with people not sheltering when there's a tornado. It's almost always the case that such people have never lived in a tornado zone and cannot comprehend the dynamics of the situation.
Funny you say that. One my my current responsibilities is chemical safety (it's written in the offer letter), and recently I contributed to a colleague getting called on the carpet by HR. I have no doubt that were there any serious injuries in any laboratory HR and counsel would wish to talk to me, and I have no desire for such a conversation.
> The safest place to be is a reinforced concrete building, but if that’s not an option a basement really is your best bet. An analysis of the Oklahoma tornado outbreak of May 1999, which featured an EF5 (i.e., scale-topping monster) twister, found that out of 40 deaths, 133 severe injuries, and 265 minor injuries, the total harm inflicted on people holed up in basements amounted to just one minor injury.
https://washingtoncitypaper.com/article/217899/straight-dope...
not sure where they sourced from but shouldn't be too hard to find given the exact numbers quoted.
The ideal scenario is that the warehouse would have a reinforced concrete tornado shelter (or multiple given the size) and a mandatory work stoppage whenever a tornado emergency is declared.
Seems credible based on photos.
There are often storm shelters in areas hit by weather like this, and there was ample warning about this storm system, so at least some of those that don't feel safe in their homes could have sheltered somewhere else if they were free to do so.
PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...
To repeat, a tornado is on the ground. TAKE COVER NOW! Move to a basement or an interior room on the lowest floor of a sturdy building. Avoid windows. If you are outdoors, in a mobile home, or in a vehicle, move to the closest substantial shelter and protect yourself from flying debris.
https://mesonet.agron.iastate.edu/vtec/#2021-O-NEW-KLSX-TO-W...
If you are in a reasonable building (such as a typical home) when a tornado warning is issued, do not seek alternative shelter. Seek the most secure area of the building you are already in.
You can search all the warnings/watches here: https://mesonet.agron.iastate.edu/vtec/search.php#byugc/MOC1...
I will note that the watch (which proceeded the warning) suggested to precautionary action.
https://mesonet.agron.iastate.edu/vtec/#2021-O-NEW-KLSX-TO-A...
Governor says it happened during shift change. Active tornado warning in the area at the time.
I would also be interested in the standard practice at other workplaces in tornado alley. St Louis area gets four tornados a year on average, plus some additional number of warnings that don't end up being tornados. Is it the standard practice of workplaces to shut down in such situations? I don't remember tornado warnings being that big of a deal when I lived there but admittedly I was a dumb college kid at the time so what did I know.
I guess my point is that allegations of wrongdoing would seem to be very slightly jumping the gun in this situation. Plays well to a certain audience but there will be plenty of time for finger pointing once we know more.
For my Employer, in a high tornado state..
Watch: Monitor but no change in business
Warning: Equipment is shut down, employee move to interior rooms approved as "shelters" (i.e no windows, normally slightly reinforced, etc), until the warning is cleared, or confirmation of the tornado's path as no chance of hitting facility.
I have seen other ask the question of "why was the facility open during the warning", questions like that show an extreme ignorance of how tornado's work, and warnings are issued, Warnings are normally short lived events not hours or days long. Warnings last like 15-30mins... Another problem with warnings is many of them have no actual tornado attached to them.
It is clear a large amount of the user base has never lived in a high tornado state, I have my entire life.
It's mind-boggling how many people are spouting away here who clearly have no understanding of how tornados work. Didn't anyone ever watch Twister?
Now if the warehouse didn’t have designated tornado shelters …
But the bigger story here is that despite multiple warnings of dangerous weather, the workers at this warehouse still ended up having to choose between risking their life or being fired/written up for refusing to come in. They didn't feel like they had the power to say "No, I won't work because its too dangerous" and some of that paid for that with their lives. Everyone responsible for that decision should be prosecuted criminally for each of those deaths.