I have a friend who dabbled in coke for a few weeks. I hung out with her once while she was high, and she was uncharacteristically mean. At some point she decided her life was becoming too focused on doing coke and told me she was selling what she had left. It took a while for her to finally commit to her last dose, but she managed to get rid of the cocaine, largely motivated by the money she would recover.

For weeks after, she would crave and daydream about cocaine. The fact that, despite being able to quit, she missed it that much made me decide to never ever try it. I know people get addicted to games or gambling or whatever else, but it seemed pretty bad.

Everyone I have ever met who is on cocaine has been a complete ass for the duration. Even people that I normally get on with just become utterly intolerable and blind to the damage it's doing to their relationships with people aren't taking.

From my limited experience, it removes filters sort of like being drunk, except without as much debilitation. The mean things being said could have been someone that enjoys being a bit mean (snarky/biting) but refrains from friends, or someone that is sometimes unintentionally insensitive but is more cautious in their speech normally to prevent it, and that caution is lost.

For me, it was a chance for me to ask a bunch of questions of people about things I was curious about but were probably none of my business or impolite to talk about, so I suspect to some degree I was guilty of the latter one.

I will say that it was incredibly enjoyable when I took it with the people I was with, which were in mostly safe and contained environments. If the draw to both immediately do more and to seek it out weeks and months later to repeat the experience wasn't so strong, I would recommend it to everyone to try at least once. As it is, I would be cautious if trying for the first time and space out usage if you tend to overindulge and/or aren't one to naturally self-regulate.

I don’t condone cocaine but I can bet you a lot more people aren’t telling you that they’re on cocaine.

Buddy we know when you're on cocaine were just polite about it.

You're clearly projecting in a massive way. I know plenty of people who do coke, some regularly some rarely, and they are among the nicest people I know, primarily because I don't associate with people who aren't generally nice.

Sounds like you were just associating with pricks and those pricks happened to use a popular drug.

He may be wrong, and he may just hang out with jerks, but none of that means he is projecting.

just like the teachers who claim to know when students are teaching?

They all make the same speech but Somehow they never seem to know about it when 7 people in the class got a copy of test in advance and prepared answers. For every student who's bad a cheating and got caught, there is >15 that the teacher never knew about.

;-)

It’s not exactly free of side effects, but a lot of the adverse affects on mood come from doing it when you already feel bad and from sleep deprivation.

Generally yes. The people I've hung out with while they were doing coke were pushy, mildly aggressive, and would just. not. shut. the. fuck. up. Being sober around cokeheads is not a pleasant experience.

That said, I did coke once(well, twice, but I'm pretty sure the second time was foot powder). It was absolutely serene. I felt crystal clear, dialed in, and perfectly zen. I didn't have a desire to talk, but to just observe. I felt like I had the hearing of a cat. Then again, I probably have unmedicated ADHD. No commercial stimulants have ever made me feel like that though.

Coke's reputation is WAY worse than what it deserves.

I guarantee you these "I tried it a few times and can't stop thinking about it" stories are complete BS.

The effects are very short lived and the more you take the more edgy, nervous and wired you get. It becomes really hard to enjoy.

I guesstimate that 80% of all coke is consumed by completely "normal" people after a few drinks in a bar on the weekends, and that's that. No craving, character changes and all that stuff.

There have been studies that show certain people are far more susceptible to cocaine addiction than others. Same as with alcohol. But for most people, developing a problematic addiction seems very rare.

Some people are just destined to become addicted to something. Anyone who's ever been drunk has an idea of the level of dedication and the massive amount of work that would be involved in becoming an alcoholic. Being drunk constantly is far too much work for most people and becoming a coke addict is exponentially more expensive and less convenient than being a drunk. Every 15 minutes snorting or every 5 minutes smoking cocaine just isn't something most people would ever attempt to do for stretches longer than an evening.

I haven't used it, but I am in principle tolerant of drug use. The three metrics of legalization/safety I have heard are: Level of addiction, Ease of overdose, and long term health impact.

You say cocaine in small amounts is a dandy stimulant. I take Adderall for ADHD occasionally, and I've been told by those who have used both that the differences in effect are smaller than one might guess. And while I suppose I could OD by taking a bunch of Adderall pills, I don't have a "drive" to keep on taking more for a short term hit.

My rambling is to say: My impression of cocaine use is that it does long term damage to the body and the nasal cavity, and that its short-term high makes people chase it more and thus is ripe for OD.

So I'm not too shocked that it's a controlled substance vs. something like cannabis.

Cocaine also induces microischemia - basically constricts your capillaries and starves the neurons/glia of oxygen. This happens slowly over time and is cumulative.

As mentioned, coke is high on the abuse potential scale due to its rapid onset and withdrawal, short loop between behavior and reward.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/brains-blood-cocaine

Alcohol also causes ischemia. Prescription amphetamines also cause ischemia but are legal.

> As mentioned, coke is high on the abuse potential scale due to its rapid onset and withdrawal, short loop between behavior and reward.

I wonder if attaching an amino acid (a la Vyvanse) would improve its pharmacokinetic profile to reduce this addiction potential. We'll never know, because its not legal to do research on medical potential for Schedule I drugs.

Not to mention that people are highly functional while high on it. So there’s no downtime on when you can be high.

You, adderall is litwrallymphramacuetical grade amphetamine.

Of course it should be legal. But the way you talk about it is so bizarre. Cocaine has ruined so many lives. It's incredibly addicting to some. It can destroy your nose, literally putting holes inside of it.

Misuse of anything is going to have ill effects. People with improper hygiene and care will develop all kinds of adversities from its use. Assuming you checked out the link, there are several devices dedicated to nasal hygiene as evidence that these people exist. Liquid cocaine is popular for a reason, allow me to explain:

Cocaine by itself is a desiccant, it seeks moisture, which is why it gets clumpy in humid areas. When it is used nasally, it dries the nasal mucosa, and triggers a mucous secretion response, which then dissolves it and allows it to pass into the capillaries in the sinuses, throat, and lungs. This cycle of drying repeatedly can cause a sclerosis of the nasal membrane, which can eventually erode the tissues affected by it.

Conversely, when proper hygiene is observed, like with nasal washes, or using liquid cocaine directly, the desiccant properties are eliminated and damage is avoided: this is how ocular cocaine is prepared and used with no adverse effects in medicine - eye surgery, etc.

I take exception to your comment about it being 'bizarre', it doesn't help the conversation to begin with an adversarial tone.

All fair, and I didn't mean that to be 'adversarial'. It was just bizarre in that, I have never seen someone speak so positively about cocaine lol. I was pointing out is I think, when talking about the pros, it might be worth mentioning the cons for some stuff

Other than being illegal, there is not a whole lot wrong with it, relatively speaking. Let's disregard cigarettes and alcohol, those are too easy. Look at food, the majority of my country is eating themselves to their early deaths, and experience all manner of outcomes worse - diabetes, cancers, immobility, sudden heart attacks.

I'm not saying it doesn't have some risks, but I am saying with all other things considered, these are the same risks associated with running, sex, and spirited debates.

Consider this: It's normal for people to do this thing where they feign not being able to function without coffee in the AM but it is somehow not socially acceptable to have a bit of cocaine on some weekends. Let us consider that it's a dual standard for what is essentially the same thing, enhanced attentiveness, a brief euphoria, better focus, and an urge to poop.

If all addictions are equal, isn't the person who can't function without coffee or cigarette the same as people who can't go without a line? So you might ask "I've never seen someone steal to buy coffee, but I've seen people steal to buy coke, why is that?"

My estimate is that it is because one is normalized and one isn't, you simply have a subset of people who are self admittedly okay with breaking 'the law' by doing coke, so naturally they might normalize theft as well since it is a hobby that is so highly penalized only those with the shakiest hold on reality/morality is likely to do it. That distorts the image of it, and we then begin to develop this social stigma.

Ergo, legalize it, you won't have more of this any more than you have coffee-heads who happen to also be thieves.

You're completely ignoring the fact that just a couple grams of cocaine can kill a person. It might not be particularly easy to take a lethal overdose of cocaine but consider how easy it is compared to other popular substances: nicotine, alcohol, cannabis, coffee, psychedelics, etc. It's an immediately dangerous substance that can cause serious harm in a short moment of disinhibiton, which I think justifies it's illegality inasmuch as any recreational drug should be illegal.

You're right -- the lethal dosage of cocaine is about 95 milligrams per kilogram of body weight. This translates to about 6.5 grams for a 150-lb person. [0]

You neglected to mention that the lethal dose for caffeine is in the same magnitude -- "150-200mg per kg of body weight, or 5 to 10 grams of total caffeine ingested, is considered lethal." [1]

Given that the street price of cocaine in the USA is around $120 / gram [2], it would cost about $780 to overdose. Meanwhile, I can easily and legally order 16 grams of caffeine tablets online (or in any CVS) [3] for $11.49 -- enough to kill two people.

Does this cause you to rethink any assumptions?

Don't forget -- at one time, drinking coffee in public was punishable by death. [4]

[0] https://gracerecovery.com/cocaine-overdose-amount/ [1] https://www.verywellmind.com/can-you-overdose-on-caffeine-21... [2] https://www.statista.com/chart/18527/cocaine-retail-steet-pr... [3] https://www.cvs.com/shop/cvs-health-caffeine-tablets-80ct-pr... [4] https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/was-coffee-ever-illega...

You don't go psychotic and destroy your brain from neurotoxic doses from chronic caffiene abuse. In the past you could take cocaine like you took coffee, but only stimulants were the ones to be pretty much universally controlled. Many countries do not even allow the entire category of stimulants to be prescribed as a medication for ADHD, such as Japan or Germany.

It's a lot safer if you just eat it, similar effects and method of action to Ritalin.

Yup, that's my preferred method of intake. Quick, easy, clean. I don't understand why people bother making lines, or using spoons or whatnot. Sure, the onset is a bit slower, but I'm rarely in that kind of a hurry.

Edit: Interesting that someone would downvote something that is purely subjective.

Insufflation generally makes a compound more bioavailable and gives a higher peak but a far shorter duration. It can take 100mg orally to get a normal bump effect. So people view it as wasting coke, but the effects can last 4-6 hours.

A former pope used and endorsed a coca wine back in the day. Seems it was very popular for a while.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vin_Mariani

Also one of Thomas Edison's favorite drinks! He's famous for rarely sleeping and working continuously -- I wonder how much of the effects are due to Vin Mariani vs his natural work ethic.

What do you do about the levamisole?

Tobacco and Alcohol have ruined an infinite number more of lives VS cocaine yet are legal.

Should we make MDMA, opium, heroin and crack legal to purchase and broadly available for all adults without any form of prescription? After all, Tobacco and Alcohol is legal...

Here is the thing, some highs are much more potent and addictive than others. Growing up in the 90's and having seen the damages of heroin, I'd say no, it doesn't matter whether Tobacco or Alcohol are also legal.

Yes, definitely. If you're talking about instantly killing the fentanyl problem dead, bringing a bunch of people who have marginalized back into the community, reducing property crime, and saving a lot of lives, you couldn't make a better choice.

Legalizing drugs would make drug addicts far more accessible to drug treatment schemes. Regulating the supply would additionally make being a drug addict a lot safer and less dominating for one's life. Heroin is safe. It's the universe of things around heroin that kill. Lots of being murdered, and going to prison; fent ods, MRSA infections, liver failure from Hep C, AIDS; doing crime and betraying everyone you know to get a substance that costs a nickel a dose to manufacture. All of these are symptoms of drug enforcement, not heroin.

I'd hope its clear to most people by now that opioids are viciously addictive in a way virtually no other substances are. Lumping them together with other drugs is disingenuous.

I largely agree with you but I’m not sure MDMA belongs here. You do see people who are addicted to MDMA, I know of someone who goes through a gram every weekend, but in most cases if you use MDMA too frequently it’ll stop feeling special. It’s kind of inherently anti-addictive.

Yes, 100%

Legalized and taxed drugs make them safer for all and reduce the amount of deaths we see from overdoses.

My decision to not use heroin has zero to do with its legality status.

I never said they haven't? They have indeed!

Deeply unpopular opinion here but I can attest to a few friends that sought help for Marijuana addiction. There is a whole community that's helping people get off of Marijuana: https://www.reddit.com/r/leaves/

I am fine with legalization of many drugs but one has to watch out for excess and lack of moderation. And the stench, I smell Marijuana in my apartment complex and it has sort of ruined a beautiful courtyard. I wish it was not so potent and people really need to be courteous (same with Tobacco).

There is also /r/Petioles for people who want to moderate their usage :) https://www.reddit.com/r/Petioles/

What does that have to do with cocaine? They're different drugs, don't confuse the two.

The "addiction" doesn't have anything to do with particular drugs, it's an underlying flaw that can be triggered by more or less anything that's enjoyable enough and meets a few other requirements. Sex, gambling, food, eating one's own hair, huffing glue, cutting oneself, and the list just goes on.

Dependency on the other hand is a tangible scientifically provable phenomenon that can be cured in a matter of days for any drug. Cocaine dependency is no different from caffeine or nicotine dependency and is over after 3 days of abstinence.

I respectfully disagree that it should be legal. In my younger years I went through a month of hard use. It was awful. It makes you act completely out of character-more aggressive, less inhibitions when performing risky activities (e.g., speeding, theft, approaching members of the opposite sex), and you can actually do a lot of damage because, unlike alcohol, you are high functioning the whole time. I don't want to think about living in a society where that's legal.

Respectfully, you learned that it's not for you, but do you think you deserved to go to jail for trying it?

For me, everyone is entitled to make that decision, and if legal, a lot of the problems the black market creates go away, the largest of which is not imprisoning people for a victimless crime.

So you're saying that we should just punish the eventual crime of theft, not the factor that contributed to the theft. I can support that argument.

However, there's also the fact that the substance is basically a harmful addictive poison. We spend so much time building legislation that prevents harmful chemicals from being sold to consumers. We punish companies for selling legal opiates due the harm it causes consumers. Why would we push to legalize a harmful chemical?

> It makes you act completely out of character-more aggressive, less inhibitions when performing risky activities (e.g., speeding, theft, approaching members of the opposite sex), and you can actually do a lot of damage because, unlike alcohol, you are high functioning the whole time.

I find it interesting that all the symptoms you list also result from wealth. Maybe being a billionaire should be illegal too.

Cocaine is a local anesthetic AND a vasoconstrictor. So some surgeons will rub it into a cut to stop both bleeding and pain.

Sure seems like it would be handy to have in a first aid kit, if it weren't for that pesky euphoria!

Oh gosh, I've seen enough people use cocaine that I wouldn't call it a "mild" stimulant by any stretch of my imagination. It's basically a stronger form of caffeine.

One friend of mine with severe ADHD turns completely normal on it. Everyone else that I've seen use it becomes an asshole. I'm pretty open minded about letting adults choose what they want to do with their bodies, but I don't like being around people using coke.

Edit: If it wasn't for the cardiac issues, I'd wonder if it would make a better ADHD medicine.

Doesn't a coke habit permanently mess with your dopamine receptors? Literally makes it harder for you to function as a human, even after you stop.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

> Doesn't a coke habit permanently mess with your dopamine receptors? Literally makes it harder for you to function as a human, even after you stop.

Not really... Your body is really good at adapting and your body will compensate when drugs put it out of homeostasis, when your you stop taking those drugs your body will stop compensating for it. You won't be "permanently" depressed after quitting a coke habit and you won't have "permanently" shrunk balls after quitting steroids etc. etc.

I don't know about permanence, but some former steroid users suffer from prolonged hypogonadism, which causes testicular atrophy.

0. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23764075/

1. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

This is actually downplaying it. This would happen to 100% of steroid users, but thank god for the internet: it allowed people 1) to share the science about how to do steroids (and auxiliary drugs) in a way that avoids this, and 2) to order the necessary products from overseas with confidence in their authenticity.

Don't Latin if you can't Latin. English would have been just as good.

Cocaine is a far more mild stimulant than most prescription speed. Though it is sometimes cut with more potent stimulants.

Yep. Same as a regular Ritalin or Adderall habit: when you stop taking them, you have a withdrawal effect. That convinces many that the drugs work. ("Look at what a mess I am without it!")

The withdrawal from a serious coke addiction has got to be much more severe, though.

Same is true for any stimulant, like legally prescribed ADHD medication.

Coke is one of the drugs I'd be fine with staying illegal.

> low potential for adverse side effects

Something like 5% get heart attacks from it.

Imagine going to a bar and 2-3 people just dying that night, every night.

Are you suggesting that out of every 100 people who consume cocaine on a given night, 5 of them have a heart attack? Even DARE didn't lie that outrageously.

Ok, sorry. The stats is more like "cocaine causes 5% of all under 50 heart attacks" - https://www.healthline.com/health/cocaine-heart-attack#effec...

While it's likely a trigger to pre-existing condition it's not really safe at all like many try to paint. Same goes to most drugs really - OD's are very easy to do once you are on a binge.

I'm all in for recreational use, but these problems shouldn't be ignored. Keeping drugs illegal does not help, but having unmarked little baggies and candy all around little ones is very dangerous.

Or the the LD50 for doing coke is 20 times?

Source?

The heart attack stats are likely incorrect. An international WHO study on cocaine[0] concluded:

  "A majority of health consequences may not be directly attributed to cocaine use. Cocaine often contributes to or exacerbates the conditions reported, rather than causing them."

  "Few experts describe cocaine as invariably harmful to health. Cocaine-related problems are widely perceived to be more common and more severe for intensive, high-dosage users and very rare and much less severe for occasional, low-dosage users."

0. https://www.tni.org/files/article-downloads/2007030814092750...