News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by artemonster on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @09:12AM (#29253167)
If you wonder whom to thank, his name is Louis Rossmann.
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by mikece on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @10:16AM (#29254152)
My first question was: "Will Louis Rossmann be happy with this or is there some BS in the fine print that he'll find and make another video about?" Either way I'll be watching his YouTube feed for updates: https://www.youtube.com/user/rossmanngroup/videos
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by kmeisthax on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @10:48AM (#29254609)
Given his prior record, he'll wind up giving credit where credit is due, and then having to eat his words a few days later when it turns out the program is far too restrictive to be useful to repair shops.
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by TrevorJ on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:06AM (#29254839)
Cynically, I wonder if what Apple will do here is make it difficult/impossible for independent repair shops to take advantage of this. Thus, Apple gets good press ("See! We support right to repair!"), but in the end, they know most consumers won't feel comfortable effecting these repairs themselves so it won't eat into Apple's bottom line much.
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by whoopdedo on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:16AM (#29254983)
Parts bought through the self-service store will cost significantly more than even what the IRPs pay.
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by Macha on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @10:58AM (#29254726)
This doesn't target repair shops at all so doesn't improve the situation there. So my reading is it's going to be "this is better for consumers but they still need to do something for those users who aren't technical enough to carry out their own repairs".

Still waiting to see if Louis finds any problems though

Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by Xavdidtheshadow on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @02:58PM (#29258131)
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by checker on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:01AM (#29254775)
I don't see anything on this post about how they will warrant self-repair, so I imagine Louis will be bringing this up.

Years back I replaced the battery on my iPhone (I tried to have Apple replace it ... it's a long, infuriating story). But I took it in for a charge port recall due to the port losing connection to the cable. It was completely unrelated issue but they wouldn't replace it under recall due to prior third party repairs. It's similar to Ford not replacing your recalled alternator because you replaced your radiator with a third party. In any case I haven't bought an iPhone since because of the frustration this experience left me with.

So this is definitely a positive step in the right direction but hopefully it doesn't end without amendments to their warranty and recall policies.

Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by dieortin on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @06:02PM (#29259999)
I don’t see how they could possibly warrant self repair. There’s a hundred ways you can mess up your device while attempting a repair, and they’re not going to pay for your mistakes.

Unless, of course, a way to remotely verify no damage occurred to the device while repairing it existed, which isn’t the case.

Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by checker on Thursday November 18, 2021 @10:18AM (#29266370)
Ok yeah I can budge on warranty, but recall? If the part is flawed from the get-go, who cares if it was "broken" during a repair? Under recall it was clearly broken or bound to break imminently (assuming Apple can verify that the part was OEM).

And if Apple doesn't want to do the repair themselves under recall due to 3rd party repairs, sure, just send me the part and I'll do it. One part per phone. Just don't tell me to pound sand and eat the full cost of part+repair. Sounds straightforward, though perhaps there's something I'm missing.

Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by mikkelam on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @09:26AM (#29253387)
100%. Apple is mostly doing this because they saw it coming anyway. Might as well bend now and position your brand in a better light. Right to repair is winning.
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by chrisfinazzo on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @09:36AM (#29253520)
Makes me think of the changes they announced to how 3rd party repairs will be handled recently. Given this change, I am still wondering why independent repair shops aren't held to the same standard...

E.g, We'll allow this, but you must (without exception) follow our procedures to the letter. I mean, AASP exists so they already have a framework for the Independent Repair Providers to adhere to as a way of enforcing QC among shops in a uniform way.

Seems like an area where creating a closed system would be advantageous...

Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by rasz on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @09:40AM (#29253582)
The procedure AASPs follow to the letter is "mail this device to repair depot, offer customer refurb or try to upsell them to a new device, here is a list of talking points"
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by bogwog on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @10:25AM (#29254298)
This isn't much of a victory though, it's just a shitty deflection. Sure, you can now buy (probably) overpriced screens and batteries from Apple when you're repairing your own phone, but 99% of people aren't going to repair their own phone.

So where do 99% of people go to get their phone repaired? The same places they were going before: Apple's overpriced and shitty repair shops, or independent repair shops that don't have access to genuine parts because Apple refuses to sell to them (and prevents suppliers from selling parts to anyone but them).

This announcement does nothing in the grand scheme of things, even if it is a marginal improvement over the previous situation. What I think is important to notice about this situation is that the only thing that caused Apple to take this (extremely tiny) pro-consumer and pro-environment step was regulatory pressure. They would not have done this on their own if it wasn't for the pressure put on by people like Louis Rossman.

The logical conclusion of course is that if we want Apple to stop destroying the planet and exploiting consumers while doing it, then we need to apply more pressure. Apple is going to do shit unless we force them to. (this can also be seen with their App store monopoly, where they reduced the fee a while back only after the pressure from lawmakers and Epic's lawsuit).

Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by frakkingcylons on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:00AM (#29254752)
Couldn’t users just buy the parts and then bring them to their local repair store and pay them for the labor?
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by xxs on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @02:01PM (#29257352)
Likely the most parts will be extremely limited, i.e. to battery and screen for the phones - which is what their current program is.

So you'd be able order a battery or screen and go to some place and they'd swap it. Edit: just noticed Rossmann has released a video suspecting pretty much the same.

Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by kumarvvr on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @09:21AM (#29253294)
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by thrdbndndn on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @10:15AM (#29254135)
That doesn't explain anything. Got any specific article about him vs Apple?
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by jbverschoor on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @10:23AM (#29254250)
Go watch his 1000s of videos, but be careful! Before you know it you'll be replacing a charging port successfully.
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by sumedh on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:15PM (#29261917)
> Go watch his 1000s of videos

or you could link to just one video which explains his position. Not everyone has time to watch 1000 videos.

Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by vultour on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:28AM (#29255152)
He's been working on a right to repair campaign in the US. I'd also discourage you from watching those videos; unless you want to see him complain for 45 minutes that the Genius Bar doesn't have microscopes and schematics and can't replace a tiny microchip on a circuit board. He's fighting for a good thing but the constant complaining, often way off base, just makes him look annoying.
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by yurishimo on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @12:12PM (#29255770)
Why did you link his Twitter when he hasn't tweeted since 2013!?!?
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by isx726552 on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @01:58PM (#29257320)
Rossmann’s twitter looks like it hasn’t been updated since 2013, and all the links to rossmannsupply.com are dead (just a spam site in its place).
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by dkonofalski on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:06AM (#29254850)
This doesn't have anything to do with Rossmann. In fact, he's probably a little pissed because this is going to bite into his business model.
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by fencepost on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @12:07PM (#29255690)
this is going to bite into his business model.

Not in the least. If anything, this will HELP his business with people who purchase parts then discover that they're not actually capable of doing the work themselves and turn to him to do the work with official parts they've already purchased.

The vast majority of people might be able to do the repairs themselves - eventually after hours of frustration and fear ("I just killed my phone!") and after purchasing additional equipment they don't normally have, just as the vast majority of people could eventually learn to do the same technology-related work that many of us here make livings on.

The always-DIYers fraction of a percent are not the customers anyone's looking for. The vast majority that are willing to pay to have someone else do that hard part are the customers everyone's looking for. It's like plumbing - everyone CAN do it, few want to do it themselves (and take on the risks).

Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by Waterluvian on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:23AM (#29255068)
If we take him at his repeated word, he is happy to be put out of business if this thing happens.
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by dkonofalski on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @02:35PM (#29257816)
I see no reason why anyone would take him at his word. He's already shown that he will lie and mischaracterize things to get his way.

I fully support right-to-repair but I despise that he's become the face of it.

Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by Kranar on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @05:56PM (#29259947)
Ooof, I am curious to know when he lied. I'm sure he mischaracterizes some things but that can be an understandable mistake and he has in the past followed up to correct himself.

But lying is a pretty big claim, and not that I've seen all his content but I've never had a reason to believe that he has intentionally deceived people on any of his public platforms.

I'd be happy to see an example where you believe he did.

Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by dkonofalski on Thursday November 18, 2021 @01:16PM (#29268603)
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by 2fast4you on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @04:59PM (#29259414)
Haven't followed him in awhile, what did he lie about?
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by dkonofalski on Thursday November 18, 2021 @01:16PM (#29268598)
He's lied several times about various things and, while I can try to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe he misspoke or genuinely didn't know he was lying, my biggest issue is that he doesn't offer corrections for these things when he's called out by people and the videos with the lies and misinformation are still up and continue to get views.

A big one that comes to mind is his remarks on the PCKompaniet case where he continued to say that Apple was suing a mom and pop repair shop for doing third-party repairs that weren't authorized. Not only did Apple not sue them for doing repairs (they sued them for copyright infringement and counterfeiting) but people repeatedly showed Rossmann that the store owner had actually advertised the parts as "genuine OEM" parts on his website and had only changed that advertisement after his parts from China were seized (the page was archived by archive.org).

Another one was a story that was similar about parts being seized by Apple in the US (that actually, at one point, dealt with Rossmann directly as it was his order). Apple didn't seize anything, it was U.S. Customs that seized the parts because the import documentation didn't match and the batteries themselves had Apple logos on them and they contacted Apple to verify the authenticity of the parts. Rossmann continued to claim that Apple had seized the parts as retaliation and continued to claim that they were "original parts" despite actually coming from grey markets in China that refurbished and replaced components (which, legally, make them non-original parts).

Overall, the sad thing is that I agree with him on the general right to repair argument but I feel like he purposely misrepresents certain things to garner sympathy from the right to repair "movement" and I feel like that hurts the movement as a whole. I feel the same way about Linus Tech Tips and their mischaracterizations. If your argument is sound and your principle is strong, you shouldn't need to do that in order to make your argument.

Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by ksec on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @06:14PM (#29260114)
>He's already shown that he will lie

Like?

Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by dkonofalski on Thursday November 18, 2021 @01:16PM (#29268600)
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by causality0 on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @09:18AM (#29253256)
Abso-fucking-lutely. Nobody has fought longer or harder for this.
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by remorses on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @09:42AM (#29253620)
It’s incredible the influence and reach he is able to accomplish with just a YouTube channel
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by lostgame on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @09:50AM (#29253757)
And an insane amount of talent and skill, let’s not forget. :)
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by dzonga on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @09:44AM (#29253667)
and dozens of lawsuits and right to repair laws. this wouldn't have been a problem if the republic answered to citizens and not corporations
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by surfpel on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @10:19AM (#29254188)
Nah it was totally just a semi obscure vlogger and not myriad of lawsuits, lobbying from ifixit, changes in EU laws, a vocal Wozniak…
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by 654wak654 on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @10:26AM (#29254317)
"semi obscure"
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by spiderice on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @12:15PM (#29255799)
What are you saying? Louis Rossmann is basically THE definition of semi-obscure. Marques Brownlee and Linus Tech Tips both have roughly 10 times the subscriber count compared to Louis, and even they could be considered semi-obscure to Apple's core user base (not HN crowd).
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by acheron on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @08:44PM (#29261160)
Ok, just “obscure” then.
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by asow92 on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @09:29AM (#29253427)
His videos are gold
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by prions on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @12:24PM (#29255923)
Just taking a look at his youtube channel. Why is he so hot on culture war issues now? It seems that right to repair has taken a back seat to his polemics about covid lockdowns, vaccine skepticism, and homeless people.
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by lucaspm98 on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @02:05PM (#29257404)
He is a business owner in New York City so Covid lockdowns, vaccine mandates, local government bureaucracy, and the real estate market are affecting him personally. He seems to view his channel as a platform for his varied interests that often overlap instead of an algorithm-maximizing focus on purely Macbook board repair.
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by loudmax on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @01:19PM (#29256734)
I wish Youtube had a "Culture War" button. It would be wonderful to have an easy way to steer clear of culture war bullshit. Not just for YouTube, the whole internet.
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by megakid on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @09:48AM (#29253716)
Amen - Thanks Louis!
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by robertoandred on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:44AM (#29255372)
The sketchy guy who uses counterfeit parts?
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by ilaksh on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @10:09AM (#29254033)
Wait for the next video from Louis. He will expose this as a scam. Yes, they are scared and trying to appease their customers. No, it is NOT in any way actual right-to-repair. They will not let you replace a charge port (for example) and the prices they are asking for parts are ludicrous.
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by SynasterBeiter on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @11:21AM (#29255046)
Is there a price list somewhere? Bear in mind Louis has an incentive here, as this Apple program directly competes with his business.
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by ilaksh on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @02:14PM (#29257531)
Re:Apple announces Self Service Repair by neop1x on Wednesday November 17, 2021 @06:56PM (#29260481)
TL;DR His is skeptical. For example he needs to replace just the keyboard (not the whole topcase) to make the repair economical. He needs to replace LCD panel only instead of the whole screen assembly. It may be still beneficial to be able to buy genuine Apple parts but there is high probability that those parts would just be too expensive. And let's see if Apple will at least release tools and instructions to program those recently-introduced chips and make it possible to re-use a genuine screen from another iPhone without disabling faceID or having to desolder and re-solder that tiny BGA chip...