News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by strict9 on Monday November 01, 2021 @02:55PM (#29071243)
When I've gone to tech conferences over the years, I've heard talks given by fb/instagram devs about the problems they're working on, and the tools they've created to do it.

On one level it seems very alluring--pay, technical challenges, being at the cutting edge of new technology. But for me those points can't counteract the role fb has in society and what people generally think of the company.

Culture is important, and it starts at the top.

Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by throwawayboise on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:23PM (#29071683)
When you retire, with very few exceptions, nothing you did in your working life will be remembered by anyone but yourself. So it's important that you be content with it. That realization has taken a while to hit me, and it's growing into a desire to retire early so I can do things that are personally rewarding and are not just goals on someone else's project plan.
Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by strict9 on Monday November 01, 2021 @05:02PM (#29073064)
For various reasons (including age and working in tech) I've considered leaving software development when I reach my 40s, to pursue something that I love doing that's a bit more tangible.

This comment lit a fire under me. Thank you.

Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by mandelbrotwurst on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:52PM (#29072103)
It's possible for your work to have impact in both the present and future even if it isn't actively recalled from anyone's memory after you retire.
Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by buitreVirtual on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:30PM (#29071777)
True, for the most part. But your family and friends will remember, and not kindly, if you worked for FB.
Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by mise_en_place on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:41PM (#29071939)
That I very much doubt. The average outrage timer is 48 hours, then everybody forgets and jumps to a new controversy. As for Facebook, many of my relatives still use it, either indirectly through WhatsApp or Instagram, or directly. Maybe my technically minded friends would care if I worked for Facebook, but even then those are far and few between. I barely remember my coworkers from 10 years ago.
Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by genewitch on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:54PM (#29072120)
A few counterpoints. The average outrage may be 48 hours, but I am sure the median is much higher. I'll boycott nestle and Samsung products forever, for instance, and have for nearly a decade and a half with nestle.

Some of my closest friends started as work colleagues, and since I retired 8 years ago I still talk to a half dozen or so, with a couple talked with daily.

You (nor I) are not everyone, and extrapolation from our own viewpoints is very nearly always invalid.

Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by dfadsadsf on Monday November 01, 2021 @04:14PM (#29072411)
What’s wrong about Nestle? Also Samsung is strange company to boycott.

Overall boycotting both of these companies is easy because replacement products for everything they do is plentiful, widely available and the same price. Not much sacrifice here.

Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by ChuckNorris89 on Monday November 01, 2021 @05:31PM (#29073410)
>What’s wrong about Nestle?

Nestle is the dietary equivalent of Facebook & Cambridge Analitica. [1][2]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj6JOKrL_vg

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoKLovtnbGY

Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by philk10 on Monday November 01, 2021 @04:43PM (#29072818)
Nestle - baby milk formula, bottled water ( paying $200 to Michigan whilst Flint residents had unusable water)
Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by povik on Monday November 01, 2021 @05:30PM (#29073393)
Technical nit: if average is 48 hours, median cannot possibly be higher than 96 hours.
Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by havkd on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:41PM (#29071951)
If I told my friends and family that I work for Facebook, WhatsApp, or Instagram, they’d think I’m fucking cool.
Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by toast0 on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:44PM (#29071986)
Having worked for WhatsApp, mostly my friends and family said, "What's That?" ... and I sighed. Of course, when I worked for Yahoo Travel, mostly they said "That's still around?", so no love wherever I work. :)
Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by handrous on Monday November 01, 2021 @04:09PM (#29072347)
Nah. They'll remember that you paid their way through college, could afford to make their childhoods and path to "the good life" easy in general, and left them a pile of cash when you died.
Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by mbesto on Monday November 01, 2021 @04:42PM (#29072801)
> But your family and friends will remember, and not kindly, if you worked for FB.

If this was even remotely true Facebook would have had a massive impact on its usage since its consumer based. It would seem weird that the Facebook brand is so tarnished to the point that the population would still be users but at the same time tar and feather loved ones who maintain it.

Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by arthur_sav on Monday November 01, 2021 @08:15PM (#29075190)
The "media" outrage is not indicative of what people think or the world.
Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by trts on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:11PM (#29071491)
> Culture is important, and it starts at the top.

Over my career it is somewhat impressive how true this has been. Across companies that say very similar things about what it means to be an employee of X, the behavior of execs and senior leadership ripples through the ranks in obvious ways. When statements from high-level people are empty or specious, you can expect to encounter the same in your own management chain.

It only takes a moment to remember this each time a FB recruiter pings me. Couldn't I be one of the people working on solving these big problems and making XX% more while doing it? It's a false choice.

Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by hef19898 on Monday November 01, 2021 @04:42PM (#29072815)
True, also wgen it comes to changes up the chain. I don't buy the whole "these high level org and management changes won't affect the way work" stuff anymore.
Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by dylan604 on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:12PM (#29071510)
>what people generally think of the company

which is what exactly? if they didn't like it, they'd be leaving in droves. tech nerds are really the only ones upset about anything that FB has done/is doing.

instead, the average person looks at what they get from FB. most of them never, not once, think at about what cost. to them it is free to use, and that's all that matters. raising privacy concerns goes no where. manipulating people's emotions isn't really doing much negatively to FB either. addicts are like that though. deep down, they might actually be aware that what they are doing is not good for them, but that isn't strong enough to fight the addiction.

Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by lost-found on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:15PM (#29071559)
The majority of the public has a negative view on Facebook: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/poll-america...

This was from 2019 and their public image has definitely not been improving. So to say it’s “only tech nerds” is a straight up lie.

Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by buitreVirtual on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:33PM (#29071825)
The parallels with the tobacco industry continue to amaze me. People viewed that industry very negatively but continued to smoke even after all revelations about their lobbying and its health consequences came to light. It has taken decades for the number of smokers to decline substantially. I imagine that FB will similarly die a very slow death over the next 10-20 years, and even then it won't die completely (but it will be replaced by other toxic social media corporations).
Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by rightbyte on Monday November 01, 2021 @04:56PM (#29073001)
I guess the point is that both are addictive?
Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by dylan604 on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:26PM (#29071728)
It's not a lie. People can have a negative view of something and continue to do that something. They can also have that negative view without truly understanding why they have that view. People are actively trying to mislead polls with answers they think the poll is looking for, or just false info to skew numbers. FB is in the news with negative stories, so they repeat those when asked even without thinking about why.

If you asked someone about a teacher or some other adult trying to manipulate a kid, they'd obviously say that it is bad. Telling them FB is doing it with what posts they see, they don't respond the same way. They just don't get how an "al-go-rythym" can be so bad. They don't truly understand the ramifications of the hoovering up all of the data they do. They shrug their shoulders and say things like they are okay with it as long as it's not real money.

So, I stand by my stance saying it is only tech nerds that truly get what is going on here.

Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by lost-found on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:30PM (#29071770)
That’s not what you said, you said “tech nerds are really the only ones upset about anything that FB has done/is doing” which the article I provided proves that’s not accurate. Move the goalposts all you want, I don’t care, but it is certainly not only “tech nerds” that disprove of what FB is doing.
Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by dylan604 on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:50PM (#29072065)
Maybe. Wasn't my intent, but let's allow the conversation to move past that.

The mass populace is not stopping their use of FB regardless of what's in the news or what these polls say about their views of FB. From the evidence, one can only surmise that people don't truly care what FB does. Most addicts don't care what their drug dealer does as long as they can get their fix when they need it.

Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by Liquix on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:35PM (#29071859)
Does the majority of the public know that Instagram == Facebook, though? Genuinely curious - non-tech folks do seem to love talking about how awful Facebook is and how they don't use it anymore, but then comes the scrolling through Instagram for 6 hours..
Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by takeda on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:50PM (#29072072)
They started putting their brand on other products and last week they realized that maybe it wasn't a good idea, so they renamed to Meta.

So now we will have

Instagram by Meta, WhatsApp by Meta, Occulus (actually Metaverse) by Meta

Ignorance is bliss.

Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by mattmcknight on Monday November 01, 2021 @05:48PM (#29073614)
Are you spreading misinformation on social media (assuming HN qualifies)? https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5794861-19093-NBCWSJ...

Look at the poll yourself, linked at the bottom of the article. Facebook 36% positive, 33% negative.

Of course their public image has not been improving, as there is high frequency campaign from newspapers and TV news to attack their competition. CNN in particularly has wanted to deflect blame to Facebook for all of the free airtime CNN gave Trump in 2016. However, it seems to be quite a stretch to extrapolate from 2019 survey that listed 33% negatives for Facebook.

Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by mdoms on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:38PM (#29071900)
> if they didn't like it, they'd be leaving in droves

It's 2021, if you really, genuinely don't understand the power of network effects by now then there truly is no hope for you.

Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by dylan604 on Monday November 01, 2021 @03:55PM (#29072141)
I think Jan 6 and the Big Lie are pretty clear evidence of the power of network effects. To claim I don't understand them is you trying to twist a narrative.

I actually anticipated your diatribe, but decided against making that part of my original comment. Yes, there's "no where" else for them to go blah blah blah. However, some people do actually decide to walk away from it for their own personal health/sanity regardless of how it affects relationships from not being on the platform. We see these comments all the time about "I quit FB x years ago". I'm one of them because of what I know about FB.

Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by s1artibartfast on Monday November 01, 2021 @04:29PM (#29072625)
The network effect comes with the network. On net, people like the network.
Re:As teens left Facebook, it planned to target 6-year-olds,... by _jal on Monday November 01, 2021 @04:44PM (#29072849)
Every quarter or so, I tell FB head hunters to go away. I do think about the money I'm turning down, but I also like to sleep at night.

Having morals does cost money.

And yes, I do think less of the 'typical' FB employee. Everyone's story is different and I'll listen, but the presumption is that working there means being OK with enabling genocide for a nice paycheck.