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Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by kadoban on Saturday October 23, 2021 @04:39PM (#28972031)
Article goes out of its way to avoid saying what's actually in the song or video.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by syspec on Saturday October 23, 2021 @04:45PM (#28972084)
That seems to be a really common thing! It's incredibly frustrating when reading some articles about someone being cancelled or the like.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by kadoban on Saturday October 23, 2021 @04:47PM (#28972095)
It's a speciality of Fox News. It promotes the outrage well when you leave out the actually objectionable part. Others do it as well of course.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by Fellshard on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:04PM (#28972808)
This is not isolated to Fox News, whatever other problems it certainly has.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by jquery on Saturday October 23, 2021 @09:03PM (#28973918)
It’s worse on Fox News than other sources like the Washington Post.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by ipaddr on Saturday October 23, 2021 @05:18PM (#28972385)
Like news shows local or national. Dislike the dropping of race when describing suspects at large but identifying gender.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by WalterBright on Saturday October 23, 2021 @08:06PM (#28973621)
The dropping of race of suspects has been going on in the news since the 1970s.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by Quekid5 on Saturday October 23, 2021 @05:38PM (#28972592)
Local news in the US is largely owned by Sinclair and/or ClearChannel. (Maybe the latter is only billboards and such. It's hard to keep up with the obfuscation.)
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by bashonly on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:15PM (#28972903)
ClearChannel got out of the television game years ago (and has since changed its name to the even-more-awful IHeartCommunications).

And Sinclair really doesn't hold a candle to Nexstar and Gray Television, who have managed to buy up the vast majority of local affiliates over the past several years.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by loonster on Saturday October 23, 2021 @05:57PM (#28972749)
In this instance, showing the lyrics that were censored would have increased the outrage.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by JPKab on Saturday October 23, 2021 @08:15PM (#28973664)
Fox News was a pioneer in this technique and unfortunately CNN and MSNBC have followed suit.

In the early 2000s I was always astonished by how utterly misinformed Fox News viewers were. In 2021 I am always astonished by how utterly misinformed MSNBC CNN and Fox News viewers are. On certain subjects like the statistical risk of a 35-year-old healthy person getting hospitalized for covid, Fox News viewers are actually the best informed. They still overestimate the risk but not by orders of magnitude that the other two sets of viewers succumb to. My father is a rabid MSNBC and CNN viewer, and like many of your typical resistance boomers is grossly ignorant about most things happening in the world. In December he was ranting to me about how the US could have had zero covid if someone else had been president. While I agreed with him that it had been mishandled I tried to explain to him that there wasn't any countries able to keep it out except for very isolated island nations. He was completely ignorant of this. He also freaked out when I contracted covid in February before I could give vaxxed. I was trying to explain to him that I'm very fit and healthy and relatively young but he really thought I was going to have to get hospitalized. This is when I started learning about the statistics on actual hospitalizations versus what the public thought. One difference between these groups of people who watch these utterly stupid channels is that Fox News viewers are pretty aware that they watch biased news. They weren't in the early 2000s though. MSNBC and CNN viewers think they're witnessing objective reporting in general. My father is always quick to say that he reads articles from the AP as if they are objective. They are absolutely not objective anymore. Ideological capture is a thing. And it was purely ideological when the AP told their reporters to call what was obviously rioting "mostly peaceful protests". The aftermath of that absurd line of thinking was me witnessing many family members who were right of center to completely lose any and all faith in journalistic institutions. It was a watershed moment in media becoming untrusted by most of the working class.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by TechBro8615 on Sunday October 24, 2021 @01:27AM (#28975225)
Less than 0.3% of the population watches prime time TV shows on any of the networks in your comment. Unfortunately despite a small initial audience they do have wide reach in terms of distributing short clips to various factions of the Twitter mob (which also happens to be comprised of an insignificant percentage of citizens).

In some populations, a person has a better chance of catching covid and dying than they do of saying they watched Chris Cuomo last night.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by gruez on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:02PM (#28972788)
sibling comment further down: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28972609
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by tyingq on Saturday October 23, 2021 @05:24PM (#28972445)
I'm curious if it was substantially different than other variations on "Let's Go Brandon" songs, like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9DClYso2FA

Note: Just curious. Didn't even know about this "Let's Go Brandon" thing until now.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by throwawayboise on Saturday October 23, 2021 @05:17PM (#28972365)
Does it really matter? Clearly it would be in the realm of satire or political humor, things liberals have historically been very vocal about protecting.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by aeturnum on Saturday October 23, 2021 @05:37PM (#28972581)
I mean, obviously it could matter.

The difference between lying and joking is always in context. If I dress as a police officer for Halloween it's fine, if I lead you to believe I actually am a police officer it is a crime. There's also a middle ground where someone could mistake my costume for impersonation.

I don't know what aspect of this video violated the terms of service, but I think political videos on all sides regularly make statements that aren't supported by 'mainstream' fact checking sources and therefore might fall outside the policies of services like Youtube.

If you want to argue that all speech with 'political intent' should be protected I am open to that conversation! But that is not the standard held by most services, including Youtube, which Bryson Gray agreed to when he uploaded his song.

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Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by mechanical_bear on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:00PM (#28972772)
Why are you talking down to previous poster, rather than just disagreeing? This seems inappropriate for HN. Personally, I come here for differing viewpoints, expressed with a bit of maturity, or at least without toxicity of that sort.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by throwawayboise on Saturday October 23, 2021 @05:24PM (#28972443)
Who's lying? Satire and humor are not lies.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by lookalike74 on Saturday October 23, 2021 @05:33PM (#28972523)
Satire and humor both have definitions, neither of which described anything happening here.
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Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by fastball on Saturday October 23, 2021 @08:23PM (#28973706)
I'm very pro-vax. Watched the video. Where's the lie?
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by hobomatic on Saturday October 23, 2021 @05:36PM (#28972568)
you know, sport, it isn't necessary to call everyone you disagree with 'champ'.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by CrazyPyroLinux on Sunday October 24, 2021 @12:25PM (#28979383)
I'm not your buddy, guy!
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by iab on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:23PM (#28972956)
Ok - can someone explain to me how this is funny? Use small words please, I want to understand
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by will4274 on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:50PM (#28973144)
Nascar is a sport where people drive cars in circles really fast. A reporter was interviewing a driver after he drove the fastest. The drivers name was Brandon. The crowd was chanting so loud it was louder than her interview. The reporter said that the crowd seemed very supportive because they were chanting "Let's go Brandon." The crowd was very obviously not chanting "Let's go Brandon." The crowd was chanting "Fuck Joe Biden." This reporter works for a news network that has a certain reputation for political bias. This event was seen as an obvious attempt to dissemble. This video went viral and had significant publicity.

One type of humor is known as "trolling". The basic idea is to see how much of a reaction you can get from something pointless and stupid. Now many people are making songs with the lyric "Let's go Brandon" and they are receiving hate mail, being banned, being demonitized, etc. This reaction is seen as outsized for a reference to a fairly well known piece of pop culture. Thus, to those who find outsized reactions funny, this is funny.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by iab on Saturday October 23, 2021 @09:11PM (#28973969)
This was actually illuminating
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by jwond on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:42PM (#28973094)
Humor is subjective
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by IncRnd on Saturday October 23, 2021 @07:28PM (#28973400)
It must be funny, because many people find it to be funny.

Ours not to reason why.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by jfrunyon on Saturday October 23, 2021 @05:27PM (#28972473)
"Biden said the jab stopped the spread, it was lies. How you WOKE but you haven’t opened your eyes?"
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by yesbut on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:17PM (#28972919)
> Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/

If I recall correctly, the Biden administration and the CDC both made public statements telling everyone that they would no longer need to continue wearing masks once they were vaccinated.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by jfrunyon on Thursday October 28, 2021 @07:03PM (#29033183)
:O wow, viruses spread more in places where the virus is, without regard to where the vaccines are? Who would've thunk it!
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Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by IncRnd on Saturday October 23, 2021 @07:13PM (#28973308)
The study says exactly what the GP wrote and that you discounted. Read the first sentence of the Findings section.

"At the country-level, there appears to be no discernable relationship between percentage of population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases in the last 7 days."

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by yesbut on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:42PM (#28973097)
Yes, vaccines prevent you from ending up in the ICU, but they aren't preventing the spread.

Did you think the vaccines would prevent you from contracting covid?

Wear your masks people.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by gzer0 on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:50PM (#28973145)
Yes, vaccines prevent you from ending up in the ICU, but they aren't preventing the spread.

This portion of your comment in particular is false.

People who receive two COVID-19 jabs and later contract the Delta variant are less likely to infect their close contacts than are unvaccinated people with Delta. Relevant Nature article (October 5, 2021).

However, good job on the masks part, please keep wearing them! :-)

[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by IncRnd on Saturday October 23, 2021 @07:23PM (#28973367)
Here is the full quote from the article:

"The study shows that people who become infected with the Delta variant are less likely to pass the virus to their close contacts if they have already had a COVID-19 vaccine than if they haven’t1. But that protective effect is relatively small, and dwindles alarmingly at three months after the receipt of the second shot. "

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by yesbut on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:57PM (#28973197)
Less likely != prevent
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by gzer0 on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:59PM (#28973206)
They are helping to prevent. You are truly grasping at straws here.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by yesbut on Saturday October 23, 2021 @07:09PM (#28973274)
> Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by exporectomy on Saturday October 23, 2021 @07:16PM (#28973326)
Are you implying that the claim in the rap was factually correct and Youtube was wrong to classify it as misinformation?
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by rtsil on Saturday October 23, 2021 @07:09PM (#28973271)
> they aren't preventing the spread.

> less likely to infect their close contacts than are unvaccinated people with Delta

I don't see these as contradictory. Vaccines are more effective against transmissions, yet vaccines don't slow down transmissions in a significative way. As per the article:

> Unfortunately, the vaccine’s beneficial effect on Delta transmission waned to almost negligible levels over time. In people infected 2 weeks after receiving the vaccine developed by the University of Oxford and AstraZeneca, both in the UK, the chance that an unvaccinated close contact would test positive was 57%, but 3 months later, that chance rose to 67%. The latter figure is on par with the likelihood that an unvaccinated person will spread the virus.

> A reduction was also observed in people vaccinated with the jab made by US company Pfizer and German firm BioNTech. The risk of spreading the Delta infection soon after vaccination with that jab was 42%, but increased to 58% with time.

Fully agree on the mask though. Plus social distancing, if possible.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by yesbut on Saturday October 23, 2021 @07:30PM (#28973421)
The study contradicts his assumptions so he is unable to take this new information and update preexisting beliefs. Or he didn't read the new study. A bunch of people are living in denial.
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Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by yesbut on Saturday October 23, 2021 @09:04PM (#28973923)
tell that to the study author's institutions then:

Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies, Cambridge, MA USA

Department of Social and Behavioral Sciences, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, Boston, MA USA

Turner Fenton Secondary School, Brampton, ON Canada

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by u801e on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:56PM (#28973178)
You could make the same argument about any commonly administered vaccine if only 58% of the population are vaccinated. There were a number of outbreaks of measles several years ago when the localized percentage of people vaccinated dropped below 95%.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by yesbut on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:59PM (#28973210)
In regards to covid-19 in particular:

> Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by jfrunyon on Thursday October 28, 2021 @07:06PM (#29033211)
And yet if you scroll just a bit further down you'll see a graph that shows significantly fewer cases in, say, counties with more than 60% fully vaccinated, compared to say, counties with 5-50%.

Almost like there's this spot where, once you have enough people vaccinated, the virus can no longer spread.

Hmm. Wonder why that could be. Certainly it couldn't possibly be exactly what experts have been telling us for the past century.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by chroem- on Saturday October 23, 2021 @05:38PM (#28972594)
Are you implying that the lyric is wrong and the pandemic is over?
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by enkid on Saturday October 23, 2021 @08:21PM (#28973699)
The lyrics don't say the vaccine would stop the pandemic, it says it would stop the spread, which it does. You are changing the wording to make it seem more reasonable than it is.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by JPKab on Saturday October 23, 2021 @08:32PM (#28973750)
Fully vaccinated people are less likely to contract or spread the virus. There's no question about this currently with the present strains. However they do not at all halt the spread of the virus. Israel is a good example of this.

As I have said elsewhere in this thread I don't agree with the lyrics in that video. I find the video itself to be childish and silly but that would basically be 99% of rap and pop music in general.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by jfrunyon on Thursday October 28, 2021 @07:07PM (#29033218)
They do halt the spread. See also: polio, smallpox.

They have not halted the spread because of vaccine misinformation like this very video which you are defending.

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Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by bmarquez on Saturday October 23, 2021 @05:57PM (#28972740)
You're probably getting flagged because the parent commentator is quoting the lyrics of the song (in quotation marks), as a response to someone asking what was in the video.

Your question should be directed at the creator of the video, not the HN user.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by chroem- on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:16PM (#28972908)
We're posting in a thread discussing why YouTube took down the song. The GP asked for what was objectionable about it. Your comment does not make sense.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by franga2000 on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:01PM (#28972777)
The quote is calling the statement "the vaccine will stop the spread of covid" a lie. That statement can be a lie only if the vaccine can not stop the spread. An overly optimistic prediction wouldn't be a lie, so the quote must be calling the vaccine ineffective at best.

Regardless of whether the pandemic is over or not, the statement isn't a lie and therefore the quote is incorrect. The vaccine significantly slows ths spread and from both theory and past experience can fully stop it, given a high enough vaccination rate. At best it hasn't come to fruition yet and at worst it won't not because the statement is a lie but because people actively prevented it from coming true, despite all reason and logic.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by chroem- on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:12PM (#28972873)
If this is the standard that we go by, are other lyricists literally commanding me to rob banks and abuse women?
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by franga2000 on Sunday October 24, 2021 @02:22AM (#28975400)
No, which is why I don't support the takedown. You can point out a bad argument from someone without agreeing with the other side.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by md8z on Saturday October 23, 2021 @08:24PM (#28973718)
Are you saying that this artist is just playing a character? Maybe in reality they really are a Biden supporter? I guess that wouldn't be surprising.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by ggdG on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:18PM (#28972923)
> The vaccine significantly slows ths spread

Based on what data do you come to that conclusion?

The vaccination rate of a country is not correlated with its covid infection rate:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-021-00808-7

And after 3 months of being fully vaccinated, people are just as likely to spread the virus as unvaccinated people:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y

From the article:

> Unfortunately, the vaccine’s beneficial effect on Delta transmission waned to almost negligible levels over time. In people infected 2 weeks after receiving the vaccine developed by the University of Oxford and AstraZeneca, both in the UK, the chance that an unvaccinated close contact would test positive was 57%, but 3 months later, that chance rose to 67%. The latter figure is on par with the likelihood that an unvaccinated person will spread the virus.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by jquery on Saturday October 23, 2021 @09:17PM (#28973993)
Too many confounding variables. As vaccines increase immunity, protective measures such as mask wearing and social distancing and travel restrictions are dropped, increasing spread. There’s also the inverse effect where increased spread leads to higher vaccination rates.

Across different countries the testing methodologies are too different to meaningfully compare with.

Finally your last paragraph only applies if the vaccinated person gets infected with delta in the first place (in other words has a breakthrough infection).

95% of COVID-19 deaths are happening among the unvaccinated right now, you’re spreading FUD about what’s basically a miracle.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by kpommerenke on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:53PM (#28973158)
Thank you for the links. I followed them and came to a different conclusion:

1) "The vaccination rate of a country is not correlated with its covid infection rate". From the article: "The lack of a meaningful association between percentage population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases is further exemplified, for instance, by comparison of Iceland and Portugal. Both countries have over 75% of their population fully vaccinated and have more COVID-19 cases per 1 million people than countries such as Vietnam and South Africa that have around 10% of their population fully vaccinated." You can interpret this as either the vaccine not working (unlikely) or that high-income countries such as Iceland and Portugal test a larger share of their population than low-income countries such as Vietnam and South Africa (very likely), thus confounding the relationship between vaccination levels and reported Covid cases.

2) "And after 3 months of being fully vaccinated, people are just as likely to spread the virus as unvaccinated people". From the article: "The risk of spreading the Delta infection soon after vaccination with that jab [Pfizer] was 42%, but increased to 58% with time." Your quote shows that the AstraZeneca vaccine loses effectiveness over time. However, the chance of an unvaccinated person passing on the virus is 67%, which is significantly higher than the 58% for a person who received the Pfizer vaccine.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by icelancer on Saturday October 23, 2021 @07:10PM (#28973286)
"Your quote shows that the AstraZeneca vaccine loses effectiveness over time. However, the chance of an unvaccinated person passing on the virus is 67%, which is significantly higher than the 58% for a person who received the Pfizer vaccine."

The word "significantly" has a specific statistical meaning. The paper discussed on the Nature article implies it is not a statistically significant difference between 67% and 58% (likely accounting for covariance and measurement error).

Unless you have a different source showing there is statistical significance between those two results?

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by ggdG on Saturday October 23, 2021 @07:34PM (#28973455)
> You can interpret this as either the vaccine not working (unlikely) or that high-income countries such as Iceland and Portugal test a larger share of their population than low-income countries such as Vietnam and South Africa (very likely)

You may interpret all you want, but I was just pointing out the lack of solid data supporting the claim: "The vaccine significantly slows the spread"

Almost 3 billion people have been fully vaccinated worldwide and yet there is still no evidence that the vaccines have any effect at all in slowing the spread of the virus. I find this rather remarkable.

This situation could very well push the evolution of the virus towards more dangerous strains. Like what happened with Marek's disease among chickens:

https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-vaccines-can-drive-pathog...

> Your quote shows that the AstraZeneca vaccine loses effectiveness over time. However, the chance of an unvaccinated person passing on the virus is 67%, which is significantly higher than the 58% for a person who received the Pfizer vaccine.

Pfizer buys you a bit more time, but the downward trend in your immunity is unmistakable too:

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/coronavirus/1626980447-vaccin...

https://imgur.com/zt0wrOo

https://www.gov.il/BlobFolder/reports/vaccine-efficacy-safet...

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Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by exporectomy on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:25PM (#28972971)
Italy is at 80% and they still see the need to ban unvaccinated people from places. New Zealand is planning to ban unvaccinated people form places after we reach 90% of over-12-year-olds. So even with a massive 80% vaccinated, the vaccine doesn't stop the spread. Maybe it would at 90%? 95%? Who knows.

In New Zealand, the unvaccinated are largely the indigenous Maori, not stereotypical anti-vaxxers.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by hackflip on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:55PM (#28973173)
The media really wants to paint the average antivaxxer as white rednecks, when white people are among the most heavily vaccinated demographics.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by veb on Saturday October 23, 2021 @07:31PM (#28973426)
I think you'd find that Māori are doing OK. Better than Pacific Islanders.

But yes, there's hard-to-reach people in every ethnicity. What I've enjoyed is the orgs who are vaccinating Māori and Pacific Islanders - always tell the community to come along even if you don't fit in either ethnicity, you'll still get a jab. I just love that. It's the way it should be!

We're all people, let's look after each other.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by exporectomy on Saturday October 23, 2021 @10:42PM (#28974482)
In contrast to Whānau Waipareira which tried to exclude non-Maori by using a password to restrict access to vaccines? https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/act-leader-d...
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by veb on Tuesday October 26, 2021 @05:07AM (#28998052)
My experience is with South Island, so primarily Ngāi Tahu and others. The one you linked is total crap, I agree.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by u801e on Saturday October 23, 2021 @07:07PM (#28973259)
Herd immunity from measles requires at least 95% of the population vaccinated. For polio, it's 80%.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by loonster on Saturday October 23, 2021 @08:34PM (#28973762)
Herd immunity only requires a certain percentage of the population to be immune. It doesn't matter how the immunity is acquired.

Given enough time, all populations will eventually attain herd immunity.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by ggdG on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:25PM (#28972970)
> The vaccination has been thoroughly shown to work

How has this been shown?

Countries with a high vaccination rate don't have a lower infection rate than other countries:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-021-00808-7

And after 3 months of being fully vaccinated, whatever level of immunity you had is completely gone by then:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y

> Unfortunately, the vaccine’s beneficial effect on Delta transmission waned to almost negligible levels over time. In people infected 2 weeks after receiving the vaccine developed by the University of Oxford and AstraZeneca, both in the UK, the chance that an unvaccinated close contact would test positive was 57%, but 3 months later, that chance rose to 67%. The latter figure is on par with the likelihood that an unvaccinated person will spread the virus.

The only thing that remains, is some protection against symptomatic disease.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by atleta on Saturday October 23, 2021 @08:32PM (#28973749)
> The only thing that remains, is some protection against symptomatic disease.

And sever disease needing hospitalization and death. And these indeed the things we want to avoid. Both as individuals and as a society. Because if/when hospitals fill up then you have a trouble. This is what people don't get. (They also don't get that they could end up in a hospital or a morgue with some probability, so I don't even mention that.)

One of my friend's father has been waiting for an operation for half a year here (in Hungary). They couldn't do it in the spring because the hospitals were overcrowded with covid patients. Then they couldn't do it because the waiting lists grew during that period. Then somehow he got in about a week ago with the help of a former high ranking official (yeah, gotta love Eastern Europe) just to be sent home the next morning, because there weren't enough free beds in the ICU any more. Yes, anecdotal, but this is the thing we try to avoid.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by artificialLimbs on Saturday October 23, 2021 @08:57PM (#28973880)
Not so universal a health care system, it seems. Looks like Hungary has one of the lowest life expectancy rates in the EU.

Sorry to hear about your friends' father.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by rdedev on Saturday October 23, 2021 @07:06PM (#28973250)
So the first link is not a study. There isn't an examination or even a reference of studies that provide evidence to the contrary. Not to say that the article can be dismissed fully but keep in mind it's not painting a full picture.

The second link is about a study that looks at transmission of the Delta variant from a breakthrough infection. It did not look into wether the chances of getting infected after vaccination decreased.

Finally the vaccine dramatically reduced your chances of dying. I'd say that's some pretty good protection from symptomatic disease, not just some protection.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by michaelmrose on Saturday October 23, 2021 @07:09PM (#28973282)
In comparative studies of populations it has been shown to still be substantially effective at preventing infection even after antibodies wane.

You are trying to make a statement about a counterfactual what if ___ country didn't vaccinate the imputation being that the vaccines aren't effective because 2 different countries with dozens of confounding factors doesn't show a high enough correlation.

It is a remarkable conclusion to suppose that studying individuals in the same society fewer got infected if they were vaccinated because of comparison between different societies.

It would be as if we proved that people didn't smoke in the USA got lung cancer far less than smokers but you sprung up with a study that showed that rates of smoking between societies wasn't highly correlated with lung cancer ergo smoking didn't cause lung cancer. One would logically suppose that your study didn't prove what you think it proved.

At limit you are supposing that if we got 100% vaccinated somehow we would see as much covid spread despite everyone having antibodies which are known to decrease chance of infection and extent of spread ergo effecting the time one remains infectious and how many virions are available to be spread.

Beware of anyone who doesn't feel the need to disprove that raindrops fall in buckets who nevertheless has proven that storms can't cause floods.

More importantly.

The MRNA vaccinations are 95% effective at keeping you out of the hospital or the grave.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7038e1.htm

This is even more important than decreasing spread.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by ggdG on Saturday October 23, 2021 @08:09PM (#28973637)
> In comparative studies of populations it has been shown to still be substantially effective at preventing infection even after antibodies wane.

Source?

> You are trying to make a statement about a counterfactual what if ___ country didn't vaccinate the imputation being that the vaccines aren't effective

I linked to an analysis by a Harvard professor. Who uses official government data of the respective countries. So I think I have good reason to take that seriously.

> because 2 different countries with dozens of confounding factors doesn't show a high enough correlation.

Yes there must be many confounding factors. But your phrase: "doesn't show a high enough correlation" is putting it mildly. How about: no correlation at all?

But I would love to see data that shows a population-level effect of mass vaccination on the covid infection rate.

> The MRNA vaccinations are 95% effective at keeping you out of the hospital or the grave.

This is the sort of percentage that got thrown around a lot at the start of the vaccination campaign. But for protection against infection/transmission. Just one of many examples:

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-israel-va...

The idea that the vaccinated have become (mostly) asymptomatic spreaders of the viruses, is nothing to celebrate. This is a scenario that can push the evolution of the virus towards more dangerous variants:

https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-vaccines-can-drive-pathog...

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by michaelmrose on Saturday October 23, 2021 @09:33PM (#28974096)
Killing hosts isn't beneficial to the virus survival, quite the opposite in fact. An infection that super aggressively reproduces but due to antibodies fails to gain a foothold beyond the nasopharynx in vaccinated people doing little damage to the host but spreading effectively to both vaccinated individuals who largely have the above experience and unvaccinated who get miserably sick and sometimes drown in their own mucus could be very fit in evolutionary terms in a mostly vaccinated population.

A mutation which increased its spread slightly among vaccinated individuals by 10% while increasing the mortality of the unvaccinated by 10x would be fitter yet. This isn't fate because the space the virus explores is driven by its actual difficult to predict particulars not hypothetical thought experiments but I wouldn't bet on covid going away, I wouldn't bet on people choosing to be more likely to die and abandoning vaccination, and I wouldn't bet on covid becoming safer for the unvaccinated in the short term.

The odds are overwhelming that if covid does get worse despite our work in developing increasingly effective therapies the unvaccinated will have it much worse. So if you choose to stay among the unvaccinated I would expect your prospects in the next several years range from bad to worse. Make your own decisions accordingly.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by ggdG on Sunday October 24, 2021 @06:06AM (#28976444)
> Killing hosts isn't beneficial to the virus survival, quite the opposite in fact. An infection that super aggressively reproduces but due to antibodies fails to gain a foothold beyond the nasopharynx in vaccinated people doing little damage to the host but spreading effectively to both vaccinated individuals who largely have the above experience and unvaccinated who get miserably sick and sometimes drown in their own mucus could be very fit in evolutionary terms in a mostly vaccinated population.

Yes. This is what that Quanta article was all about. Here's the link once more: https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-vaccines-can-drive-pathog...

> The odds are overwhelming that if covid does get worse despite our work in developing increasingly effective therapies the unvaccinated will have it much worse.

Agreed. There's a tragedy of the commons there.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by michaelmrose on Sunday October 24, 2021 @12:52PM (#28979650)
If we make it possible for everyone to be vaccinated if they so choose the only tragedy will be the innocent old and immunocompromised who die despite vaccination because they were effectively murdered by someone else's stupidity.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by chroem- on Saturday October 23, 2021 @05:55PM (#28972721)
But is the pandemic over? It's clearly not, and that was the point of the lyric. Countries with 90%+ vaccination rates are still having lockdowns because of breakthrough cases.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by city41 on Saturday October 23, 2021 @05:57PM (#28972739)
You're adding things that aren't there. The lyrics are just "the jab stops the spread." That is true.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by chroem- on Saturday October 23, 2021 @05:58PM (#28972758)
I was unaware that we interpret poetry literally in 2021.
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by city41 on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:01PM (#28972779)
You're acting as if your interpretation is the only valid one. Since not everyone will interpret "the jab stops the spread" as "the pandemic is over", the best we can do is interpret "the jab stops the spread" as ... wait for it ... "the jab stops the spread".
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by jakeva on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:22PM (#28972951)
My interpretation would be closer to "the jab slows the spread".
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by city41 on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:28PM (#28972987)
Yeah, to be fair that is probably a more accurate statement.

Edit: and while we're here, here is politifact's take:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/oct/14/joe-biden/...

Concluding it's "half true" fits this thread well :)

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by jjulius on Saturday October 23, 2021 @06:02PM (#28972786)
>The lyrics are just "the jab stops the spread." That is true.

I say this as someone who's vaccinated; that is not true. It can limit the spread by reducing the viral load you give off, but you can still be vaccinated, get the virus, be asymptomatic (or not) and transmit it.

Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by workOrNah on Saturday October 23, 2021 @07:39PM (#28973477)
there is a Twitter video linked. it's truly nonsense and in glad it was banned tbh. he says the pandemic was planned and COVID vaccine didn't work amongst other misinformation
Re:YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming... by JPKab on Saturday October 23, 2021 @08:28PM (#28973737)
It is utterly nonsensical and foolish but I don't like the fact that it was banned.

When US media reports on activities like this in countries like China and Russia they call it censorship. When they report on the same activities in the US they call it "protecting the public from misinformation".

It's a very very slippery slope to ban things. Who gets to choose what gets banned? Who gets to say what is misinformation or not?

It blows my mind how shortsighted most of my left of center friends are on this topic. They seem to have this delusion that these levers of power are only ever going to be controlled by the people they agree with. In the early 2000s a lot of people I argued with were totally supportive of the Patriot act. They were generally conservatives and were just completely confident it would never be used against US citizens. Now those same people are witnessing calls from people on the left who wants opposed to Patriot act to use it against US citizens with right-wing politics.