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Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by cm2187 on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @06:51AM (#28366221)
Don't modern internet-connected TV boxes snitch on what people are watching? Surely we don't need a sampling anymore?

Just thinking that the elderly population is probably the least likely to use those boxes (though I am not even sure of that), whereas they constitute the (dying) core of traditional TV viewership.

Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by WorldMaker on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @12:59PM (#28370549)
Ironically, modern streaming apps have far more accurate numbers than anything Nielsen ever cooked up sampling people, but Netflix made the precedence that they should be "secret sauce" and not shared publicly and most of the "Streaming Wars" diaspora today are following that policy/precedent.

We're in something of a worst of both worlds situation where Nielsen has an increasingly small number of viewers where traditional TV boxes work to get decent samples, has to rely more than ever on surveys, and distrusts all streaming viewership numbers because they are cloak and dagger white lies between competitors, despite in theory being way more accurate than all the previous tools (the surveys and the TV boxes).

It's almost wild. The most forthcoming to shareholders/the general public over the years has been Hulu and Hulu's numbers at times have suggested Nielsen's data is very, very wrong right now, but Nielsen doesn't trust Hulu's data at all because it smells like lies because Netflix does nothing but lie or ghost them.

Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by nebula8804 on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @02:22PM (#28371622)
I have been exploring ways to avoid sending this data to them. To start: using an instance of Pi-Hole and running all your apps will remove some tracking from them.

Following this up with paying for your subscription but pirating all the shows might help remove you from the cycle completely.

I understand the second point is not realistic for the majority of people but I wonder if in the future we might have an easy to use version of Pi-Hole that most people can just flip on and strip a large chunk of tracking from the apps.

Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by WorldMaker on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @02:59PM (#28372068)
That just gets us back to the topic way above: if we aren't giving that tracking data to TV producers, it's tough to complain when our favorite nerdy/intelligent shows get cancelled.

That's the deep weird irony that we live in a world where we could have the best possible numbers (directly tracked statistics), and yet TV Producers are still relying (for the most part) on Phone and Snail Mail Survey Results because they don't think they can trust streaming provider numbers. Pi-Holing those numbers just gives those Producers even more reason to feel that they are lies or wrong. At what point do you Pi-Hole too many telemetrics to oblivion and aren't allowed to complain when your favorite TV shows get canceled because "no one" was watching it?

Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by nebula8804 on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @03:30PM (#28372422)
I guess this contributes to me watching less and less shows because I am tired of stuff being canceled midseason. It might be a self fulfilling prophecy. Less people watch these shows/appear to watch these shows, the networks stop producing it and these people don't come back to whatever the network does end up producing.

From what I am hearing, traditional forms of media are in decline because people are spending their time on Youtube/Twitch/Social media instead.

Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by dspillett on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @09:56AM (#28368096)
Modern TVs do snitch but there are two issues with relying on that:

1. There is a disparity between age groups and other demographic dividers who have newer TVs. This could significantly skew the results for some advertisers.

2. The data is going to the TV manufacturer, and they will not share that freely between themselves or with anyone else. This will complicate collating the data as there are several entities to negotiate with in order to get an overall picture.

Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by conradfr on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @07:22AM (#28366450)
You know a connected TV / set-top box is on a channel but you don't know how many / which persons in the house is in front of it.
Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by yissp on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @07:31AM (#28366524)
How long until they start putting cameras in them and doing facial recognition?
Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by justanotherguy0 on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @08:01AM (#28366802)
Just use the microphone in the smart tv. That's what the CIA does: https://www-washingtonpost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.wa...
Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by MiddleEndian on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @09:01AM (#28367495)
Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by KallDrexx on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @09:07AM (#28367575)
So I found out my neighbors were proud to be participating in some new Neilson study. Apparently they pay you to wear these boxes in your pocket that pick up sound. At the end of the day it syncs what it heard to their servers and you get points, which eventually translates to money.

Essentially the stated purpose is so that it can pick up what music you listen to throughout the day, but in reality it's picking up everything.

Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by touristtam on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @09:42AM (#28367944)
Oh so like a cell/mobile phone, but only with the purpose stated out right?
Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by vel0city on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @01:55PM (#28371261)
Nah, they get paid to have the box in their pocket, you pay to have your box in your pocket.
Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by cm2187 on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @08:21AM (#28366992)
Some sort of localised motion sensor would probably be sufficient to tell you how many people are watching without invading too much on people's privacy. You wouldn't know the age, but you already have ton of information by knowing the address and the subscriber already.
Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by hnlmorg on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @09:08AM (#28367582)
> Some sort of localised motion sensor would probably be sufficient to tell you how many people are watching

You'd also have pets captured, curtains flapping by an open window captured, and any toys kids are playing with (like balls) potentially captured as another viewer too.

Meanwhile pap who likes to sit motionlessly while the kids round around him, isn't detected.

> without invading too much on people's privacy

Motion detection feels like a pretty major privacy violation to me.

> You wouldn't know the age, but you already have ton of information by knowing the address and the subscriber already.

Except when you have friends or family over.

Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by ta988 on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @09:12AM (#28367621)
Cameras are here and we have no idea what they do with them.
Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by gruez on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @07:41AM (#28366609)
Put tape over it?
Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by jobigoud on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @08:08AM (#28366857)
They could put an IR camera right next to the remote sensor. Since it's behind a glass that is opaque to visible-light you wouldn't even know the camera's there, and if you put tape on it your remote wouldn't work anymore.
Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by type0 on Wednesday September 01, 2021 @06:55AM (#28378280)
Thank you for giving such great ideas for free to CIA, I just can't help to wait until it's implemented in my next smart tv /s
Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by gruez on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @08:13AM (#28366912)
>Since it's behind a glass that is opaque to visible-light you wouldn't even know the camera's there

If it's opaque to visible light how does the camera produce an image?

>if you put tape on it your remote wouldn't work anymore.

Not really? You just have to be more careful placing the tape. Besides, nowadays many smart TV have app remote controls, or RF-based remote controls so the IR sensor being blocked is a non-issue

Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by bluGill on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @09:06AM (#28367562)
> If it's opaque to visible light how does the camera produce an image?

It isn't opaque to infrared light though. The image is still high enough quality to make out people, it looks funny but it is good enough for their purposes.

Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by ta988 on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @09:12AM (#28367619)
Most "smart" TVs have cameras these days...
Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by ok123456 on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @09:56AM (#28368102)
And the tech savvy people never connect their "smart" tvs to the internet.
Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by noir_lord on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @02:19PM (#28371572)
My "smart" TV has one job - show the signal fed to it via HDMI from my linux box.
Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by dylan604 on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @10:27AM (#28368538)
So does your cable provider's set top box. So does your Roku/Fire/AppleTV/etc, except it is at the app level.
Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by JohnFen on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @11:04AM (#28369009)
> Don't modern internet-connected TV boxes snitch on what people are watching?

Yes, which is why I will never own one.

Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by 14 on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @11:31AM (#28369300)
Just wait until 5g is everywhere and companies will just add its functionality to your tv and connect regardless of what you do.
Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by JohnFen on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @12:34PM (#28370162)
They can't add functionality to a device that I don't own.
Re:Tech-savvy audiences block Google Analytics by crtasm on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @09:02AM (#28367514)
> Surely we don't need a sampling anymore?

Depends, are the TV networks buying that information? Or just advertisers?