News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by qalmakka on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:12AM (#28088261)
The smart home is a crappy idea because appliances, switches and fixed lights are supposed to last for decades before needing to be replaced. Companies have clearly shown close to no interest in maintaining and upgrading even reasonably recent devices - adding smart features to previously dumb devices is nice at first, but what about in five years when the software will start to rot and stop working, and probably become a serious privacy and security liability?

Until this gets solved somehow smart features will always remain a marketing gimmick. There's no way around it.

People accept replacing ageing phones and computers because their connectivity features are a large part of the reason they exist. This isn't true for a light switch, for instance, which is mostly seen as a way to turn lights off.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by the_snooze on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:35AM (#28088595)
Even the value proposition is unclear. A simple mechanical light switch Just Works (TM). It's cheap, reliable, and nearly universally understood. Adding network connectivity, scheduling, voice recognition, etc. to these things sounds cool, but that novelty wears off very quickly, and you're stuck with features that probably won't matter to you day-to-day.

It reminds me of those 3D user interfaces in the movie Minority Report. Very cool-looking and futuristic. Who wouldn't want that? The answer is anyone whose arms would be tired after a couple minutes of flailing around like that. Stop making things overly complicated for the sake of marketing copy.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by vorpalhex on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:52AM (#28088862)
I think there is value proposition in a smart home, but I believe every manufacturer has missed the mark on it.

My smart home is entirely app controlled (HomeAssistant), generally scheduled, and at no point does anything notify me unless an actual exceptional event happens. Every smart home device is controllable via a physical switch. My command and control centers are old android tablets acting as digital picture frames until you swipe on them.

And it's really convenient and it works well. No voice anything, no needing five different apps, and the UI is stupidly simple.

Most smart home devices that are advertised are a pain in the ass, the apps are intrusive and terrible, they are far too voice heavy and they usually don't play well with normal switches/remotes/etc.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by simcop2387 on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:56AM (#28088936)
I've got a similar setup that I started originally so I could turn off lamps in my apartment with mock lightswtches on the wall. This enabled me to have an otherwise normal experience since redoing the electrical wiring in an apartment is generally a good way to get in a lot of trouble. Being able to schedule or turn iff all the lights in a simgle action at night was just a huge plus
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by amelius on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:42PM (#28089633)
What kind of devices/sensors does your smart home control/monitor?
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by vorpalhex on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:50PM (#28089759)
Thermostats, lights, entertainment center, cameras (kind of, working to update to a better system), presence via network awareness. Currently using a weather api as well.

Lights and entertainment center get the most usage of course, though thermostat control is nice. I do have humidity data from the thermostats but I'm not using it currently.

I built and did an alpha test of garden monitoring but haven't messed with it since.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by dkarl on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:28PM (#28089407)
I think richer control of lighting, including color and brightness, is useful, even if 99% of the time you interact with it via the wall switch. I had Philips Hue lights at my last house and enjoyed the level of control the app gave me. I used the simple scheduling capability it had and would have used more power if they offered it. (I did wish I had more control at the wall; I only had on/off switches and would have liked to have a dimmer and a button to toggle different programs.)

I can't say I found the ability to control my lights and thermostat from beyond the local network to be compelling. I changed the Nest thermostat for my mother once while she was staying there since she couldn't figure out how to do it, and I think that was the only time I found it useful. I never set up remote access for the lights and never missed it.

Remote security will be a useful application, though. Being able to buzz people in for repairs and deliveries and other services, and know that they know they can't steal anything without being seen, is an attractive possibility.

Fine-grained control of sound is another feature I would use. I often wish I could play audio in the whole house, just one room, or certain rooms, depending on the circumstances.

Also, something I find myself wishing for (less often since Covid, but still occasionally): cameras inside my refrigerator and pantry, so if I have a dinner idea while I'm out, I know what I need to pick up on the way home.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by c9fc42ad on Friday August 06, 2021 @07:45PM (#28094130)
> (I did wish I had more control at the wall; I only had on/off switches and would have liked to have a dimmer and a button to toggle different programs.)

For what it's worth this is possible now with their Smart Button

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by pcwalton on Friday August 06, 2021 @01:37PM (#28090444)
> Even the value proposition is unclear. A simple mechanical light switch Just Works (TM). It's cheap, reliable, and nearly universally understood. Adding network connectivity, scheduling, voice recognition, etc. to these things sounds cool, but that novelty wears off very quickly, and you're stuck with features that probably won't matter to you day-to-day.

As I mentioned down below, I'm currently on crutches with a broken leg. Voice-controlled lighting is a big convenience in my scenario. Mechanical switches don't "Just Work (TM)" for disabled people.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by dredmorbius on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:04PM (#28095321)
There are numerous existing controls, most of which integrate with the switch rather than the bulb.

Photocells / IR motion sensors turn lights on or off as ambient light levels fall or presence of a human is detected.

Audio switches turn on or off with a sound ("The Clapper", etc.)

Timers can be used to turn circuits on or off on a set schedule. This may not be ideal, but can work for general cases.

There are remotes which work based on a handheld control and either IR or RF frequencies.

All of these are backwards-compatible with old technology, are tried and proven, and will continue to function for years.

"Smart Home" implementations remain 99.99996% crap.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by stevekemp on Saturday August 07, 2021 @07:10AM (#28097655)
Yeah I find that a couple of the 433Mhz remote-controlled sockets suit me very well.

I can lay in bed and turn on/off a fan, a pair of lamps, and the coffee-machine (which I pre-fill manually the night before).

More complex things would be nice, but I just don't trust most of them.

The only other thing I do is record the temperature in my living-room, balcony, and sauna. The sauna monitoring is useful because I can make it ping my phone when it reaches 80/90 degrees and is "ready".

(That just uses an off-the-shelf battery-powered temperature/humidity sensor. Every 30-60 seconds it broadcasts the current readings and I have an SDR-receiver plugged into my desktop. That logs the values to influxdb, and visualizes with grafana. Nothing amazing, but fun and a little useful.)

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by ub99 on Friday August 06, 2021 @04:53PM (#28092616)
That’s not a strong value proposition though. There are many specialized devices for disabled people - doesn’t mean that they offer great value to the able-bodied. Eg a special watch for the blind is a great idea… but not something that would attract many non-blind people.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by pcwalton on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:53PM (#28095536)
What a strange argument. You might as well say penicillin doesn't have a "strong value proposition" because it doesn't have value until you're sick.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by whoaisme on Saturday August 07, 2021 @06:59PM (#28102635)
That seems like a poor counter. Everyone gets sick as far as I know not everyone becomes disabled.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by colordrops on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:35PM (#28089521)
There is a value proposition, but the tech just isn't there yet. It requires too much manual setup, pieces are not very standardized, and they also don't work well.

Imagine asking your phone to watch a movie in your family room, then automatically, the lights dim or change color, the curtains are pulled if it's dark, the tv and receiver are flipped on and the movie is loaded and ready to go on pause. Many people would find value in this. This is all technically possible and some people have actually created this setup. But it probably took them several days and fiddling to make it work. I can barely get my Yamaha receiver and LG tv to work together and they are top of the line new components.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by torginus on Friday August 06, 2021 @06:18PM (#28093410)
There is no value proposition. This tech is designed by software engineers for the purpose of harvesting the maximum amount of data about a a given person while giving him/her the thinnest possible veneer of value proposition. That's why mechanical wonders like the million-function wonder toilets of Japanese fame are not pushed - they do not allow companies to harvest as much data about its users, while taking actual engineering skills to design - a no-no proposition for these smart device companies.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by colordrops on Friday August 06, 2021 @09:22PM (#28094805)
Umm, I was speaking about myself as well when I talked about this setup. There is nothing that phones home here. Almond for voice recognition, Zwave for the switches, movie served by Jellyfin, TV and Receiver blocked by OPNSense firewall with VLANs.

It's valuable and useful to me, and if it could be setup up easily, I'm sure others would love it to.

Ironically I also have two japanese toilets in my house.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by riskable on Friday August 06, 2021 @01:36PM (#28090437)
> It requires too much manual setup

I'd argue that this isn't true. Installing a light switch is a HUGE pain in the ass compared to a "smart plug" that can turn a lamp on and off via your phone or any "smart" switch that can connect to it.

As annoying as setup procedures can be they don't take nearly as long or involve nearly as much sweat as cutting holes in walls, running wires, potentially installing additional circuit breakers, installing wall boxes, installing the actual switch, and making sure it's all according to code.

Furthermore, changing which outlet the wall switch controls is also a pain in the ass compared to just relocating the little smart plug or changing the device it controls in the switch configuration software.

It's possible to make a smart device that lasts for decades without security issues but device manufacturers just aren't willing to put in the effort for that sort of thing. It's much, much more profitable to make devices that only last 5 years before the end user needs to spend money on a new one.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by silverlake on Friday August 06, 2021 @01:25PM (#28090279)
This exactly. I had this routine set up but then updates and bugs made it difficult for others to use. Even now turning on the lights in one room mysteriously turns off the lights and closes the blinds in another room. There are no logs to help debug it.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by jaywalk on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:15PM (#28089204)
Z-wave switches are the key. They don't have any "smarts" within them, they require a controller for that. So the switch itself is never outdated, and the controller can be continuously updated or even fully replaced without having to replace the switches themselves.

Being able to say "Hey Siri, good evening" to switch to my evening scene, or "Alexa, turn on the lights" to turn on the lights in whatever room I'm in becomes a huge convenience, not a novelty.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by magicalhippo on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:50PM (#28089758)
Z-wave also has a backup system where switches can talk directly to other devices like dimmers in case the controller goes down.

This way you're not stuck with a useless home in case your controller lost power, is down for maintenance or whatever.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by idatum on Friday August 06, 2021 @03:47PM (#28091943)
I use Z-Wave and the key for me is I'm not beholden to some external IoT service that is a potential privacy issue, can update firmware without my consent, or simply goes away. I feel I own my Z-Wave network (aka right to repair).

For light switches I use Z-Wave modules that use the wall switch as a low voltage switch to trigger the module to switch the A/C circuit. This way the existing switch acts just as it did before. My family really doesn't notice, yet somehow that porch light is always on around dusk and off by dawn.

I don't use Alexa or the like but as a developer I easily integrate with DiY equivalent.

That last point is probably a key gap generally though -- as a developer this home automation stuff comes easier to me, potentially.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by jeddy3 on Friday August 06, 2021 @03:48PM (#28091954)
Having a couple of Z-Wave devices, in my opinion they are not the solution.

Combability wildly varies between manufacturers, you have have to know what works with what.

The mesh capabilities are kinda wonky, where you have some kind of "heal" network function you use when devices for some reason stops talking to each other.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by dolmen on Friday August 06, 2021 @01:25PM (#28090282)
The pairing experience is still a nightmare.

"Press the button for 3 seconds, but not five."

"Do the pairing near the receiver."

And you have to swap batteries.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by yurishimo on Friday August 06, 2021 @09:54PM (#28094971)
You can buy Z-wave devices that don't use batteries.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by closeparen on Friday August 06, 2021 @06:20PM (#28093428)
Electricians are not really pulling cable to put your switches in convenient locations anymore. They’ll place a smart switch wherever requires least effort, and then give you a remote panel for it wherever you like. The remote panel looks like a normal switch but actually sticks onto intact drywall, no cutting required.

Not quite “IOT” but the bridge between that low power network and the internet is a natural add on.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by taeric on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:02PM (#28089026)
I confess slightly more complicated light switches would be convenient. We have some that have an LED in them when in the "off" position as an easy night light/indicator of where to turn lights on. That is quite nice.

Would also be cool if they were more "push toggle" style so that if I have two sets of switches on the same lights, I don't have to accept that four switches all in different "positions" are different states. (That is, Up Down Up Up, but all off.)

All of that said, most of that does not need any sort of "smart" additions. Basic circuitry has come a long way.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by beerandt on Friday August 06, 2021 @03:05PM (#28091537)
You want the homeseer z-wave plus switches.

Can program double triple or more taps to run scenes or events, and can also sync multiple switches (wirelessly and on different circuits) to control the same lighting, or use cheaper (wired) remote switches that lack status lights, but are functionally identical.

I have single press resume previous light level, double up goes to 100% double down goes to preset dim level, triple up or down turns on/off the entire room/area of house.

Hold and release to manual dim.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by taeric on Friday August 06, 2021 @08:16PM (#28094353)
Strictly, I want those without the wifi. :D

That said, they do fit my bill really well and I'm almost certainly going to switch to them eventually.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by beerandt on Friday August 06, 2021 @08:44PM (#28094525)
They don't have wifi, unless you mean the z-wave protocol, which is a separate wireless protocol.

You can add a zwave controller that translates ip commands from a home server to zwave commands, but it can be wired or wifi (or usb).

You can also directly program zwave "scenes", which work directly between the z wave devices without needing a controller. Like a direct remote control.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by taeric on Friday August 06, 2021 @08:47PM (#28094554)
I did mean z-wave. I am not sure of what acronym to call that by. I guess I could have just said radio/wireless?

Edit: Regardless of what I meant, I think you proved I should look more into these. Thanks!

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by beerandt on Friday August 06, 2021 @08:59PM (#28094660)
It's proprietary wireless, usually people just say zwave.

My point was that it's not like most iot devices that try to find an open internet connection to phone home. They're 100% as isolated as you want them to be.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by yurishimo on Friday August 06, 2021 @09:55PM (#28094978)
Check out Inovelli[0]. They are the darling child of the Home Automation subreddit. I have a few of the last generation switches and they do perform well and have a great feature set for the price.

0: https://inovelli.com/

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by jaywalk on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:09PM (#28089127)
As far as your "push toggle" concept, you could buy a Z-wave smart switch plus add-on switches and have this today. There's no requirement to actually connect to a Z-wave network, although smart switches are much more expensive than standard switches.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by taeric on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:16PM (#28089230)
Right. Apologies, I meant to offer this as a small feature that comes with many of these "smart home" additions that actually is kind of nice. Just with the major caveat that the "smart home" aspect is... not really needed or wanted.

And with a huge confession that this isn't that big of a deal.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by genpfault on Friday August 06, 2021 @01:30PM (#28090357)
> It reminds me of those 3D user interfaces in the movie Minority Report. Very cool-looking and futuristic. Who wouldn't want that? The answer is anyone whose arms would be tired after a couple minutes of flailing around like that.

"Gorilla arm"[1]

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen#%22Gorilla_arm%22

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by marlowe221 on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:31PM (#28089456)
I would much prefer LCARS and sophisticated voice recognition a la Star Trek TNG than anything I saw in Minority Report...
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by whazor on Friday August 06, 2021 @03:57PM (#28092049)
I'm sorry but mechanical light switches are certainly not as cheap as ZigBee alternatives. You need to have copper wires running from the switch to the light. If you want to move the button or add another button it takes hours of work. Working with electricity is even dangerous.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by infinitezest on Friday August 06, 2021 @02:45PM (#28091298)
This has always been my general stance. It sounds cool but the juice doesn't seem worth the squeeze. It solves a problem that really isn't that big of a problem, IMO. It's almost a real life CINCO commercial.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by paulddraper on Friday August 06, 2021 @03:23PM (#28091697)
> The answer is anyone whose arms would be tired after a couple minutes of flailing around like that.

YEEEESSSS

Minority Report is my go-to example for sexy, total impractical.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by systemvoltage on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:42PM (#28089639)
Just works (TM) attitude applies to a lot more things in life than smart homes.

For example, Software Engineering :-)

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by Nemi on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:16PM (#28089222)
One of the main problems as I see it is that dumb devices have a long life and when they fail, they tend to hard fail. It either works, or it doesn’t.

In contrast, smart devices have many soft failures. They work today and they don’t tomorrow. They fail for various reasons that are not under their direct control, and because of that they have a much larger mental overhead for me.

For instance, I can shut the garage door with a traditional switch and be pretty certain it will close. Yes, they do stop working, but it is a hard, catastrophic event that makes me take notice and act.

By contrast when a smart device fails, it can often fail silently and temporarily so I find myself constantly second guessing the thing I just did. “Did it work? Is the sensor showing me the correct state? Did it open on it’s own? I better go outside and check it.”

I find myself thinking about said thing way more during the day than I used to. And this is fatiguing. Yes, it has some added benefit to automate certain tasks, but any benefit is wasted by the overall mental overhead it is adding back on me. Definitely not worth it except for trivial things from my experience.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by Nextgrid on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:36PM (#28089542)
If you cut out the cloud and stick to local-only devices the reliability increases significantly.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by newsclues on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:22AM (#28088395)
I think the technology is ready but it’s held back by business model incompatibility.

The smart home should be an open source hub that integrates appliances, switches and lighting etc.

But the business model requires vendor lock-in closed systems.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by teeray on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:47AM (#28088792)
It would be nice for the building code to start dictating some interop standards for this stuff to overcome the natural tendency of the business to make this a winner-take-all market at the expense of the consumer. At first blush, it feels like it would be a little out of their wheelhouse, but it's not entirely unusual since it responds to consumer interests. For example, Energy Storage Systems (batteries) are a new-ish thing added to the code around 2014.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by conk on Friday August 06, 2021 @02:21PM (#28091039)
Codes abs standards have working groups composed of industry, consumers and inspectors. New groups are created all the time to address new technology. Unfortunately the initial cost to set up is typically too high for most individuals leaving progress in building codes/standards up to corporations.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by Wohlf on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:34PM (#28095452)
Building codes are primarily for health and safety, secondarily to prevent getting screwed by contractors. Making rules on batteries makes sense but smart home interoperability less so.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by qalmakka on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:06PM (#28089084)
Even if we assume that companies are willing to support the systems they sold for an undetermined amount of time (something that will _never_ happen), this still won't solve the fact that the hardware itself enabling the "smart" features is bound to turn obsolete way before the appliance exhausts its lifetime.

For instance, I've seen chest freezers running for >30y without breaking; do you expect today's IT technology to remain viable for the next 30 years? What about new protocols that might appear that the hardware may not support, or new highly desirable features that are simply unfeasible to implement on the limited µcontrollers that power most IoT appliances?

You risk ending up in a situation like with LPT printers - when USB became dominant, lots of old printers ended up in landfills due to how unreliable LPT-USB adapters were. The printers themselves were often absolutely fine, but they had become too annoying and keeping an old machine around to use them was much more complicated than just buying a spanking new network printer.

Given the current dire environmental situation I wouldn't push for technologies that might cause perfectly functioning appliances to become obsolete due to a non-necessary secondary features. The only way out of this is for "IoT modules" to be removable, standardized and upgradeable, but thinking anyone would do that is delusional.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by Nextgrid on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:29PM (#28089433)
> but they had become too annoying and keeping an old machine around to use them was much more complicated than just buying a spanking new network printer.

To be fair the problem of unreliable USB to LPT adapters was caused by this. It was more economical to just replace printers so there wasn't enough demand for a quality converter.

If replacing legacy smart home devices is costly then it would provide a market for reliable adapter devices.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by blippage on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:56PM (#28089856)
My mum kept trying to foist a wireless telephone on me, because then I could use the telephone in bed, or whatever. So this goes on for awhile, but the rechargeable batteries never seem to recharge properly, so the phone goes dead a short while into the conversation. I finally decided "screw all this", and got a cheap corded phone for a few quid. It Just Works (TM). We get the odd power cut, which means that my parents have to fish an old phone out of the drawer so that they can still use the telephone.

Our internet is intermittent, too.

People keep banging on about the environment, privacy concerns about big companies like Facebook are in the public eye, and there's plenty of stories of these smart devices stopping working. Yet people keep buying these overcomplicated, expensive devices with multiple failure points. I can't believe people can be that stupid not to see the obvious drawbacks.

L'il update: when I was a schoolboy doing my 'O' levels, one subject I studied was Technical Drawing. One day, the teacher showed us a pulley. It was used in industrial machinery. It was housed in a little cage which swivelled open. There was a "nipple" at the top to allow for lubrication. I marvelled about how much attention to detail someone had put into a humble pulley. Later on, I came to a strange realisation: there are actually two forms of engineering: industrial, and consumer. Industrial engineering is for stuff that actually has to work, and work properly. Consumer engineering: deliberately designed crap. It's the kind of thinking which leads one to welding batteries onto the phone itself. In some respects, I feel it's the opposite of engineering. Then I think back to how there was some guy, decades ago, that sat down and designed a pulley that was robust and could actually be maintained.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by voisin on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:24AM (#28088420)
The answer will be a SaaS model to encourage ongoing development and maintenance. Get ready to pay $1.99/mo for up to 6 smart light switches or $6.99/mo for unlimited, for the rest of your life.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by omk on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:31AM (#28088529)
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the failure of smart homes attributed to the SaaS model itself. Nest devices had to be killed because Google wouldn't support the subscription anymore. What it needs is licensing model and not a subscription. Get a smart home installed on your home like you'd install Windows on a PC. We are basically wanting to install a server in every home to cut off recurring costs on vendors and even dependency on a single vendor for that matter.

The bottleneck here could be the network interface once you are away from your home. That is where standards struggle.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by tharkun__ on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:45AM (#28088754)
Looking at the sibling I currently see right below hits the nail on the head as in vendor lock in is bad for both SaaS and perpetual licensing models.

I think none of the models currently work well for the consumer. If your SaaS provider shuts down its service you have to replace all the hardware too because of vendor lock in.

If your perpetual license vendor stops making this produ t line or changes its proprietary software incompatible say 3 years down the line (which from a software development standpoint is reasonable actually) you can't buy another light switch for the new room you added by subdividing the basement "play room" that would work with your original installation. Software incompatible. New software or other vendors' software won't work on your 'ancient' hardware.

Vendor lock in bad.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by xtracto on Saturday August 07, 2021 @11:29AM (#28099303)
I want a smart home that is isolated. Given that i know all the ways a computer system can fail, I want my smart home to function even when Amazon/Google/Microsoft cloud goes down. Also , I dont want my smart devices to send or receive ANY data from external servers. Of course that's incompatible with current business models. So I prefer my home to stay dumb.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by jerf on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:40PM (#28089603)
In principle, the answer is getting together and standardizing on generic protocols.

Unfortunately, there are multiple reasons why this can't happen in the current environment.

The business reason is that all the big tech giants are now deeply accustomed to lockin-as-a-model, and you can't have lockin if you have a standard that everyone can use equally. So, literally everyone in the space sees it as their incentive to let other players conform to their standards, but not to conform to anyone else's standards. This does not result in a standard, de facto or de jure.

(I made the same objection to the "metaverse" concept a couple of weeks ago. It can't work as some people are envisioning; the business proposition at this point is complete nonsense. Every participating company will be happy for other companies to voluntarily walk into their walled garden, but no company is going to walk into somebody else's walled garden.)

The technical reason is that any attempt to standardize at this point is more likely to produce a mess like bluetooth than any sort of coherent standard. Plus you get an echoing of the business model problem where every participant will see the standard as a weapon to be fired at their competitor rather than something to conform to for mutual advantage.

Not helping any of this is the problem that the problems that they are solving just aren't that compelling. This limits the amount of value they can extract from me by virtue of the fact I'm not paying for more than I'm getting from the 'smart home', which doesn't really leave them with much money to play with. It also doesn't help that the camel's nose is already under the tent in terms of not simply enabling the user but trying to control the user, with things like letting this authority twiddle with my air conditioner and that authority twiddle with my hot water heater, and in 2021, I have less than no confidence that buying into a smart home won't continue this trend.

Personally, my assessment is that the tech industry of the 2010s and the 2020s is structurally and temperamentally incapable of producing a high-quality smart home. The best they can do is create a locked-in walled garden that works great if you buy into it from top to bottom (and pay the subscription fees!), but gets abandoned in three to five years and then becomes totally nonfunctional as they pursue the next thing.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by yurishimo on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:05PM (#28095027)
There are some standards already and a lot of the big companies use them already. Amazon's Alexa uses Zigbee to communicate with 3rd party devices and can act as a defacto hub. Zigbee is an open protocol with no licensing fees (or at least cheaper than Z-wave, it's slight more reliable, but more expensive, cousin protocol).

Many devices are now opting for control over HTTP which is fairly reliable, even if your outside internet connection goes down. It's also easy to setup and discover. There is a larger security concern for these types of devices, but common sense will go a long way towards keeping you protected until more rigorous standards can be agreed upon.

Home automation does not, and in my opinion, should not require and outgoing internet connection. My network is accessible from outside because I want it to be and I've accepted the potential risks (though tunneling into my own network is always an option should I want to go that route).

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by AlbertCory on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:54AM (#28088909)
Bingo. One should aim for the smallest amount of complexity needed for the job. To turn lights on & off, a simple switch is all you need. If it breaks, you can go to Home Depot for another. If you're disabled, there are special devices you can buy.

Same for thermostats. If you're going away for two weeks in winter, turn the heat down to 55. What's so hard about that?

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by Nextgrid on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:30PM (#28089449)
> Same for thermostats.

I've lost count of how many times I opened the windows and then went out without turning off the heating causing it to run at full blast trying to fight the winter outside.

A window sensor + smart thermostat + Home Assistant solved that problem and the system has been reliably running for 2 years now. I can now open & close the windows at will knowing that the heating will adapt around that and not waste energy. Note that there is no UI, no voice assistants, not even screens involved. It just works in the background.

Do I agree with the current gimmicky consumer-grade implementation of a "smart home" and controlling everything with your phone/voice assistant? No, that's stupid. But it doesn't mean the idea of a smart home should be dismissed - there are ways to actually make it useful and pleasant if you are willing to spend some time and/or money.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by jaywalk on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:17PM (#28089237)
When I go away for two weeks in the winter, I'd also like my lights to turn on and off to simulate my home being occupied for security purposes. A simple switch isn't going to cut it.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by Tagbert on Saturday August 07, 2021 @12:42PM (#28099907)
I use simple smart switches for that. I can use my iPad to switch the lights on and off manually or they can be automated. It does require some “smart home” components but the switches are simple and cheap. i always hated trying to get the mechanical timer switches setup correctly.

I don’t go in for full integration of smart home features into appliances and such. Using smart switches gives me enough “smartness” without to much risk from a system in flux.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by AlbertCory on Friday August 06, 2021 @04:35PM (#28092442)
Right. For that, you need a timer, which you can also get at Home Depot for a few dollars. What else you got?

The timer is something you can leave on all the time. If you don't come home before dark some day, you still want the lights to go on.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by throwawayboise on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:50PM (#28089760)
A simple timer plugged into a wall outlet will. We've had those for decades.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by matthewmcg on Friday August 06, 2021 @06:28PM (#28093508)
I think the Lutron Caseta system is an example of how to do this in a better way, though it doesn't fully solve the obsolescence problem you mention. It minimizes the size and cost of the potentially obsolete part.

The switches and dimmers themselves degrade gracefully--you'll always have a button to turn things up or down or on or off if the connection fails. And the connectivity is provided by a simple and responsive dedicated radio system, coupled to a bridge. You might need to replace the bridge in the future (to add support for a new protocol or whatever) but the dimmers should last (nearly) as long as the passive switches they replaced.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by zajio1am on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:32PM (#28089479)
> adding smart features to previously dumb devices is nice at first, but what about in five years when the software will start to rot and stop working, and probably become a serious privacy and security liability?

There is easy solution - instead of IP-based IoT devices, separate appliance network based on industrial or specialized bus (e.g. Zigbee) and then gateway connected to IP-based network. With this setup all your appliances, switches and lights are pretty well isolated and with trivial software, and you just need to handle software updates and security in gateway.

There is another problem and that is interoperability and long-term availability of these products. I do not want to buy products from a closed system of one vendor, but prefer some industrial standard, so there is hope compatible products would be here even after 10 or 20 years.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by hattmall on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:36PM (#28089539)
I've been using X10 stuff for nearly two decades. So I'm pretty sure that already exists exactly as your describing.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by throwawayboise on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:45PM (#28089680)
> People accept replacing ageing phones and computers because their connectivity features are a large part of the reason they exist.

Though with phones, this is a relatively new concept. Phones used to last for decades. The phones in my parent's house were unchanged and still working after 30 years.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by cratermoon on Friday August 06, 2021 @01:58PM (#28090729)
I don't have a landline any more, but I still have a beige rotary dial desk phone that my parents got no later than 70s. It still works, if you can find a place to jack in. It's just a quirky decoration in my living room now.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by Abishek_Muthian on Saturday August 07, 2021 @03:04AM (#28096441)
The article doesn't seem to consider security devices especially cameras and intrusion detection systems as smart home devices which have seen the largest adoption worldwide.

Households which have never heard about Alexa, Apple Home/Google Nest have IP Security cameras with robust motion detection/alert system and in many parts of the world they're credible deterrence as house owner having a gun is not a thing.

That doesn't mean security cameras don't have issues, most are already part of bot net, will never get a security update, hard-linked to the app(Even RTSP is unavailable) and of course privacy issues concerning always on devices in our home sold by companies which don't have reputation for respecting privacy.

But aforementioned issues can be addressed with hardened security cameras along with accessible self-hosted software which are now delegated to only those who wish to get their hands dirty.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by 908B64B197 on Friday August 06, 2021 @01:56PM (#28090707)
What I want out of a "smart" switch is that it exposes an API over a network connection for what it can do (turn on, off and maybe dim the lights) along with a Unique Identifier of some kind. CPU and network stack all running on a Harvard Architecture system with no possibility of upgrade.

The "smartness" should come from a device (be it a smartphone, hub-like device like an echo or my router) that maintains the mapping between device addresses, api and friendly names. That can be upgraded, replaced, exposed to the outside internet.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by lostlogin on Friday August 06, 2021 @06:03PM (#28093283)
> fixed lights are supposed to last for decades before needing to be replaced.

Only recently. Light bulbs used to blow rather too often and changing them was a routine thing. LED has changed that thank goodness.

Smart lights have been installed at my workplace. They change their setting over 20 or so seconds ‘to reduce stress’. When you press a button and nothing happens immediately it immediately irritates, and most users press it again (cancelling the change).

Who comes up with these crappy systems and the amateur psychology behind them?

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by maigret on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:25PM (#28089361)
This is why I prefer standalone smart furniture and gadgets. All stuff that doesn’t need to be built in the house, but can be updated and swapped at need. Also, every time I ask myself really hard if I need this thing or just want it.

What a house should have in any case, is a good network and Ethernet plugs in every room. This makes the addition of new gadgets much easier I found. I must admit I’ve not gone the WiFi mesh route, but it looks interesting as well. Guess I’m just old school on that.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by lkois on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:39PM (#28089578)
I'm surprised Ethernet over Power doesn't seem to get more attention. It's basically Ethernet cabling without running any new wires. It was the only thing that fixed wifi availability throughout our townhouse.

I'd be interested to know how a wifi mesh performs in comparison, but I can't see how it could be nearly as good, without being much more conspicuous.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by disgruntledphd2 on Sunday August 08, 2021 @01:59PM (#28108670)
I adore Ethernet over power, it makes my life so much better, but oddly doesn't get very much attention.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by jjav on Friday August 06, 2021 @08:43PM (#28094522)
> and probably become a serious privacy and security liability

Given the quality of IoT devices, they pretty much become a serious privacy and security liability the moment they are first turned on.

Agree on everything else though. There's a fundamental mismatch between parts of a house where the expected lifetime is measured in human generations vs. tech gadgets where the lifetime is months to a couple years before becoming throwaway.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by conk on Friday August 06, 2021 @01:26PM (#28090293)
Lutron RA/RA2 has put connectivity into light switches for nearly 25 years. It’s still a supported product with many devices still in operation.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by ddingus on Friday August 06, 2021 @12:57PM (#28089870)
This right here. I completely agree, and I think there will need to be standards that can endure long before we see smarthomes take off in any real sense.

And I hate rolling devices. I bought a high-end smartphone, and a high-end laptop quite a while ago. I haven't really had to upgrade those, and that's really nice. Just a taste of what people want in their home appliances.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by ahi on Friday August 06, 2021 @01:08PM (#28090050)
My washer and dryer are at least 30 years old. Parts are still available and any idiot with a screw driver can fix them because they are so simple. Family have tried to gift me their top-of-the-line slightly used models and I flatly refuse. Less is more for the vast majority of appliances.
Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by D13Fd on Friday August 06, 2021 @02:31PM (#28091148)
> appliances . . . are supposed to last for decades

I'm not sure this holds up any more. It seems to me most mid-range or lower modern appliances fail within a decade.

That said, I only have one "smart" appliance (a Miele dishwasher), and its "smart" features were useless last time I checked.

Re:The smart home is flailing as a concept by typest on Friday August 06, 2021 @11:48AM (#28088804)
Agreed. People look at homes and things like light switches and blinds that have stayed the same for decades. These things seem boring, but the fact that they haven't changed is evidence of great design.

Smart homes to me have always felt like tech looking for a problem to solve.