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Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by WheelsAtLarge on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:13PM (#27966659)
Amazon will never bet on Bitcoin as it's primary virtual coin. It makes 0 sense since there's too much volatility plus it's open to manipulation by outsiders.

As an active international company, Amazon is perfectly positioned to create its own virtual coin. They've created their own transportation service since what is available did not meet their needs. Likewise, the credit card companies take a big chunk of their profits and don't meet all their needs. It's only a matter of time before they go after them. I bet they're making plans to create it and use it for internal transactions aiming for it to be used by all the shoppers. Eventually it will be convertible to any currency and Bitcoin will be one of them. This is the power of being big and getting bigger.

This is a multi year project but it's coming.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by paxys on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:19PM (#27966708)
There is already an Amazon "coin". It's called your gift card balance.

If you mean they will try to move away from USD (or other national currencies), there is absolutely zero incentive for them to do so. And how will they pay their wholesalers, vendors, employees, taxes?

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by EE84M3i on Monday July 26, 2021 @11:27PM (#27968300)
Amazon gift cards are marketplace specific. You can't buy a gift card in the UK and use it in the US.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by paxys on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @01:10AM (#27968872)
That's a restriction placed by Amazon itself. They could remove it tomorrow if they wanted to, and doing so would be a lot easier than creating their own currency.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by rchaud on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @11:17AM (#27973453)
Gift card balances are liabilities on the balance sheet of each country or regional office in which that card is valid. From a software standpoint it probably isn't much more than a flick of a switch. From a financial reconcialiation point of view however....
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by atatatat on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @10:03AM (#27972581)
Not so fast.

If they allow that with USD et al, they're more liable in more "currently on the books" ways than if they started letting people send Ama-coin across the globe.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by fnord77 on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:38PM (#27966869)
I'm sure they'd want nothing more than to be able to pay their employees with amazon gift cards so the only place they can spend their earnings is at the company store.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by uncoder0 on Monday July 26, 2021 @08:53PM (#27967380)
I don't doubt that they love the company store model. I've been offered AWS credits in lieu of cash for contract work.... after the cash amount was agreed to in writing and work was performed.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by chii on Monday July 26, 2021 @11:49PM (#27968405)
how would the worker pay their taxes, if amazon did that? Presumably, the US gov't will not accept amazon gift-card in lieu of cash.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by atatatat on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @10:04AM (#27972590)
You think most Amazon warehouse workers make enough to pay taxes?
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by throaway46546 on Monday July 26, 2021 @11:09PM (#27968210)
Don't a lot of mechanical turk workers get paid in gift cards?
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by vosper on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:31PM (#27966821)
When Facebook tried to launch their own coin with Libra (now Diem) it went really badly, and they had lots of big names on-board, too: PayPal, eBay, Mastercard, Stripe, Visa. Diem seems to be battling on (maybe they want to make it the currency of their "metaverse") but how much do you hear about it these days?

And that was when the FTC wasn't chaired by Lisa Khan.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by paxys on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:57PM (#27967014)
The difference is that Facebook presented a solution in search of a problem. Even today, browsing through the Diem site, there's a ton of vague marketing speak and zero actual things I can do with it.

In contrast, "use this coin to buy anything on Amazon" is a massive product from the second it launches.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by scoopertrooper on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:03PM (#27967450)
What's wrong the coins I got issued from the federal reserve? I can already exchange them for things offered by Amazon and a whole bunch of other places. Why would I want to exchange them for a glorified Amazon gift card?
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by CoolGuySteve on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:42PM (#27967663)
It's so strange reading these kinds of comments from people who've never transacted in Canadian Tire Money. Fungible scrip coupons have already been successful.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Tire_money

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by robjan on Monday July 26, 2021 @11:04PM (#27968188)
Gift cards and gift certificates are examples of scrip coupons
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by pricees on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:22PM (#27967549)
I would like to have thought BezosBucks, like the Forever Stamp, would have been inflation proof.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by craftinator on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @01:50AM (#27969056)
> What's wrong the coins I got issued from the federal reserve?

They are owned by someone who doesn't understand how one thing can be "good" without another thing in the same category being "bad".

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by phasnox on Monday July 26, 2021 @11:23PM (#27968275)
Centralized. Manipulated. Unpredictable issuance. Subject to censorship.

Among a few.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by scoopertrooper on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @12:38AM (#27968682)
> Centralized. Manipulated.

There is widespread manipulation in the crypo market. The difference with crypto is that there are no regulations that even attempt to hinder it.

https://www.quora.com/Where-can-I-join-a-crypto-pump-and-dum...

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/lbzdn7/scam...

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Example-of-a-pump-and-du...

> Unpredictable issuance.

Perhaps in theory, but USD has proven to be a far less volatile store of value than Bitcoin and Etherium, which have both been through the equivalent of hyperinflation and hyperdeflation over the past decade.

> Subject to censorship.

Currency is not subject to censorship, such a thing would be impossible. Certain payment providers have refused to process payments to various individuals, but such a thing would be possible in the crypto space as well.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by herbst on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @05:45AM (#27970501)
If you look at a graph from 1 2 or 3 years for USD and Some popular cryptos it gets really obvious which one loses relative value and which one doubles or tripples value every other year.

USD is a horrible value storage in the last year's if you deal outside of USD

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by phasnox on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @02:09AM (#27969181)
> but USD has proven to be a far less volatile store of value than Bitcoin

If by less volatile you mean gradually losing value, I mean yeah.. But is that a better store of value?

> such a thing would be possible in the crypto space as well.

Nope, that is literally impossible with Bitcoin. Hitler could open up a shop, and no one could stop him from receiving payments.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by Lt_Riza_Hawkeye on Monday July 26, 2021 @10:34PM (#27967999)
Hey, FB employee here (views my own). I don't think Diem is necessarily in search of a problem:

- Other payment systems like PayPal/Venmo/Zelle are for P2P domestic use only - you can't send money cross-borders.

- Paypal/Venmo requires you to have a bank account. Diem doesn't, and so part of Diem's mission is to serve the un-banked.

- This is a little pedantic, but PayPal/Venmo/Zelle/Square Cash are closed ecosystems. You can't send money from one to the other, for example. Diem is a protocol that you can interact with using any wallet, not just Novi.

Not being paid to post this or anything. I just think Diem is not well advertised haha

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by craftinator on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @02:08AM (#27969169)
> I don't think Diem is necessarily in search of a problem.

I think the problem with Diem is not that it doesn't fill a market role, it's that the target market, in general, knows how evil Facebook is, and would prefer a "cleaner" alternative. The problem with doing dodgey stuff with user data for years and years is that you gain a reputation, and then even if a small subset of your massive super organization makes a really good pure product, that product still inherits the stench from the parent. We don't trust the Zuck, and until fairly recently the target market for Diem were almost entirely people tech savvy enough to understand the depths to which Facebook operates in.

Imagine if Google came out with a new crypto-coin, and with all the soul and creativity a bloated bureaucracy can muster, called it "GCoin", a "New way to shop and get tracked!". Now, many normal people would stay away from GCoin purely because they know it would be in the GGraveyard in two years, but the rest of the target market would think," Ya know, Google has been absolutely evil this last decade or so, building their business model around surveiling us and toying with our emotions to get us to buy useless shit, while slowly trading away any uniqueness they ever had for fun primary marketing colors in a thousand different patterns. I think I'll pass on this GCoin bullshit...". That's how we feel about Diem. Except possibly not quite as angry, because at least Facebook has given us a figurehead to hate, instead of the faceless, souless, primary colored evil that is Google.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by phasnox on Monday July 26, 2021 @11:21PM (#27968264)
Nope, the problem with Diem is it's creators do not seem to understand Bitcoins appeal: permissionless transfer of value.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by deevolution on Monday July 26, 2021 @11:41PM (#27968371)
The solution already exists... there's thousands of crypto coins already. If fb hasn't released a coin yet at this point they never will. They're frozen in ice by the threat of regulatory crackdown.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by herbst on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @05:47AM (#27970517)
It's easier to open a bank account than to make a Facebook account. Which I just assume is or will be necessary for Diem
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by filmgirlcw on Monday July 26, 2021 @08:16PM (#27967151)
Why is that a massive product? Genuine question. The areas I could see that being useful don’t have significant Amazon infrastructure anyway (and that infrastructure would need to be built up for a coin to be valuable), and in the US, Europe, Asia, I can’t see the benefit of an Amazon coin versus any other payment form.

But I’m genuinely curious, why is this a massive product for anything more than a weird form of money laundering?

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by iamben on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @06:09AM (#27970659)
More so if it's "use this coin to buy anything on Amazon and get 10% off all regular prices"
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by tantalor on Monday July 26, 2021 @08:01PM (#27967045)
I doubt sellers will want to accept it. You can't pay your taxes with Bezos-bucks.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by toast0 on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:24PM (#27967559)
I assume when I buy something from an Amazon merchant, Amazon pays them in their local currency, regardless of which currency I chose to pay with. If they've got BezoBucks now, I assume paying with those still sends USD to US vendors and UKP to UK vendors and EUR to European vendors, etc.

I still don't see a big upside for Amazon, but merchants wouldn't need to accept it. And of course, Amazon could incentivize merchants to use it. Maybe if you take it, you get 1% more value than if you take USD and spend it on the site/AWS.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by davidcbc on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:28PM (#27967577)
What value do BezoBucks add in this scenario? They can already convert USD to other currencies to pay their vendors. Just like Facebook's cryptocurrency it's just a solution in search of a problem.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by toast0 on Monday July 26, 2021 @10:17PM (#27967888)
Well if I'm a small Amazon merchant, like maybe I just sell my used books, and I'm an Amazon customer too, if Amazon could send me $100 for my monthly sales, and I'm planning to spend $101 on Amazon this month anyway...

If they send me 101 Bezobucks instead, I'm happy because they gave me $101 of value; they're happy because for that $101 purchase, they got $100 value; if I paid with a rewards credit card, they would probably get $98-$99.

Why it would need to be a cryptocoin thing instead of just a gift card/credit, I don't know. Cryptocoins are hot for reasons that don't resonate with me. Maybe some way around gift card laws, and if they can back into foreign remittances without needing a money transmital license, it could be useful.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by dontblink on Monday July 26, 2021 @10:09PM (#27967828)
Hedge against the dollar backed by commodities effectively.

Imagine if the dollar fluctuated widely (say because of inflation) but BezosBucks does not. Your buying power stays the same (while BezosBucks becomes more expensive to buy into over time).

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by deevolution on Monday July 26, 2021 @11:35PM (#27968333)
You can't pay taxes in bezos-bucks right now, but you maybe able to in the future https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-11/miami-may...
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by rualca on Monday July 26, 2021 @08:11PM (#27967108)
Amazon already have an internal currency in the form of its store card.

I doubt sellers would say no to a sale if a client offered to purchase it with a blockchain store card.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by WalterSear on Monday July 26, 2021 @08:58PM (#27967419)
There's no point to using a blockchain in this scenario, and lots of good reasons not to.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by WheelsAtLarge on Monday July 26, 2021 @08:05PM (#27967066)
Facebook's coin is postponed not dead. Their big problem was that they tried to grab too much power at one time. Having a company create a currency gives it too much power. Think about a company that has billions of users and they all would be forced to use FB's currency. Eventually it would be it's own country with all the power that goes with that. Politicly, no country is going to easily accept that.

Now think about a currency that's used internally and slowly it gets released by the company and used by all. By the time people started fighting against it it would be too late to stop.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by thecupisblue on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @08:06AM (#27971442)
> Now think about a currency that's used internally and slowly it gets released by the company and used by all.

You really think facebook employees using it internally would mean other people would accept it too?

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by numpad0 on Monday July 26, 2021 @08:46PM (#27967334)
> Facebook, PayPal, eBay

I don’t see anything going good, PR wise, with those three in one team

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by yarky on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:50PM (#27967705)
> It makes 0 sense since there's too much volatility plus it's open to manipulation by outsiders.

It makes 0 sense only if you assume that they will hodl the coins, which makes no sense if you're using it exclusively to settle a transaction.

You don't need to be expose to the crypto volatility to accept it as a payment method, in fact I don't see any risk involved as long as you find a way to immediately convert your crypto to the fiat currency of your choice.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by teawrecks on Monday July 26, 2021 @10:38PM (#27968015)
It's also not like it's part of btc's design to be volatile. Maybe one day the USD will be too volatile compared to a crypto that a significant number of people adopt. Never say never.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by knownjorbist on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:36PM (#27966851)
Do people not remember Amazon Coin?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Coin

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by somethingwitty1 on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:40PM (#27966884)
That wasn't a "coin" in the context of this discussion. As the wiki correctly points out, it was a gift card, nothing more. It couldn't gain or lose value. It was tied to a specific dollar amount.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by abrokenpipe on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:09PM (#27967488)
> It couldn't gain or lose value. It was tied to a specific dollar amount.

Like a stable coin?

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by davidcbc on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:29PM (#27967586)
No, because it was actually backed by Amazon instead of by hopes and dreams like stable coins
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by trident5000 on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:41PM (#27966902)
"as its primary virtual coin"

idk why you think it needs to come down to this, like its a big stance. They sell stuff. They will take whatever form of payment you want to accomplish this just like multiple fiat currencies are accepted by companies. If they accepted bitcoin it would be a casual add on of a payment type.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by dadoge on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:15PM (#27966672)
What value does a virtual coin they maintain have for them and us consumers?
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by WheelsAtLarge on Monday July 26, 2021 @08:20PM (#27967173)
Think about why countries have their own currency and don't automatically adopt some other country's money and you can start to figure out why it's advantageous to create your own coin. Historically it has been a huge problem for countries that let their citizens make their own money so they make it illegal. I don't know why that's changed recently but as long as it's legal companies will create their own. It really does become free money for the company.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by daveguy on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:17PM (#27966690)
I'm not so sure. I would be surprised if they made their own coin given the regulatory scrutiny that would bring. I don't think they'll necessarily use Bitcoin though.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by SideburnsOfDoom on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @03:41AM (#27969698)
> Amazon is perfectly positioned to create its own virtual coin.

Which by definition would be centralised, and so wouldn't need a blockchain at all?

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by phasnox on Monday July 26, 2021 @07:52PM (#27966979)
> It makes 0 sense since there's too much volatility plus it's open to manipulation by outsiders.

So what? They don't have to keep it in Bitcoin.

It makes lots of sense as they would safe millions on fees if done right.

> Amazon is perfectly positioned to create its own virtual coin

They could, and there's even a big change they would. We've seen big companies do dumb stuff. e.g. FB Libra project.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by dadoge on Monday July 26, 2021 @08:08PM (#27967086)
There is very little consumer demand to buy things in Bitcoin, esp in the US.

Maybe elsewhere tho…like South America or Africa

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by phasnox on Monday July 26, 2021 @11:12PM (#27968221)
Of course there is little consumer demand NOW.

So what? They are big enough to create the correct incentives to change that.

Everyone will benefit, but specially them.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by dadoge on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @08:17AM (#27971517)
It’ll look bad for both Amazon and Bitcoin if they took that out and it’s a flop
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by WalterSear on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:00PM (#27967432)
Even less there.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by dadoge on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:09PM (#27967486)
What do you mean?

Argentina has had over 30% inflation EACH YEAR for many years in a row, for instance

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by WalterSear on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:29PM (#27967583)
They still have US dollars. They have less access to crypto and less ways to use it. They are poorer and can suffer market fluctuations worse. They don't have a government attempting to shut down fraudulent crypto actors in the way the US is.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by dadoge on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:41PM (#27967659)
https://medium.com/muunwallet/muun-releases-non-custodial-bi...

They are actually at the forefront of adoption of The Lightning Network.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by dadoge on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:45PM (#27967672)
Yes they “have usd” but from What I gather it’s not the norm to get paid in USD
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by WalterSear on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:56PM (#27967742)
Crypto or no crypto, they aren't going to be paid in anything but Argentinian fiat.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by dadoge on Monday July 26, 2021 @10:06PM (#27967814)
So…with only a internet access, you can convert that shitty fiat to Bitcoin.

If you dollar cost average Bitcoin, it has outperformed the usd and will very likely continue to do so in the future.

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by dadoge on Monday July 26, 2021 @10:12PM (#27967847)
And better to convert shitty fiat into something decentralized and not controlled by some other country
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by AndrewUnmuted on Monday July 26, 2021 @08:29PM (#27967231)
When I worked at Audible I remember a particular hackathon where a team created a way to pay their membership to the platform in Bitcoin.

The executive team at the time was made visibly uncomfortable by the idea while it was being presented. They expressed concern over the process involved in handling fraud and essentially said the business model didn't support a Bitcoin-based payments system. They even had the nerve to inquire about how accepting payments in Bitcoin benefits the customer.

Needless to say, the team did not win. In fact, my team did - but we probably shouldn't have.

Then the Amazon Coin [0] came out later that year, which to this day very few people actually are aware even exists.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Coin

Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by davidcbc on Monday July 26, 2021 @09:51PM (#27967717)
Amazon Coin isn't a cryptocurrency, so it seems irrelevant to the conversation.
Re:Amazon denies report of accepting Bitcoin as payment by deevolution on Monday July 26, 2021 @11:32PM (#27968319)
Companies creating their own coin is like having an intranet... intranets mostly suck and have no real value. There's a reason the www is superior - because it's fully open.