I'm sure it's primarily because caffeine and theanine are culturally accepted and available cheaply over-the-counter. Modafinil is prescription-only (at least in the US), and speed/amphetamines are likewise illegal.

Instead of asking your doctor for psychoactive drugs or delving through the dark corners of the internet or dark corners of downtown alleys, you can get caffeine at Walgreens or Starbucks.

But the two aren't even comparable in terms of effect IMO. I already have caffeine tolerance so at this point I'm drinking coffee out of habit and not to go through withdrawal, but even when I reset my tolerance a few times getting back into it does almost nothing compared to modafinil (aside from getting jitters when I overdo it)

I just skimmed r/nootropics and it seems like the side effects and prescription requirement of modafinil disqualify it as a home recommendation.

If the recommendations were purely about effectiveness all recommendations would likely be prescriptions...

Interesting. My anecdotal experience with modafinil is that I get extreme anxiety and elevated heart rate without any additional focus benefits. In fact, it detriments my ability to focus.

Adderall on the other hand, while stimulating and euphoric, gets the job done. But it works so well that I have trouble focusing without it now. I’ve tried tapering off multiple times but always go back to it when my work quality suffers and I’m not contributing to tasks that my team needs done.

I got that the second time I used modafinil and went with whole pill (did half the first time). Later on I did whole pills every time and had no sideffects (a couple of times I would get noticeably elevated HR, but I was awake 12+h at that point and need moda to get through the night)

What dosage? I've tried 25mg, 50mg, 100mg and 200mg doses for Modafanil at different stages for a month. I was really trying to get off of Adderall at the time, but nothing really worked for me.

200mg worked for me, started with 100mg to see if I would get sideffects, but I never used it over 2-3 days in a week.

Different strokes for different blokes, I guess.

Paranoid suspicion was my #1 effect. No thanks.

Modafinil or Methylphenidate? Modafinil never made me paranoid but I know at least one person with psychosis caused by Methylphenidate.

I avoid both nowadays because work isn’t worth risking health.

What are the health risks with either?

For Modafanil or Adderall?

You can try Armodafinil instead of modafinil, it cause less anxiety. Also not popular but apparently effective, amantadine is an interesting dopaminergic.

re. Modafinil, I heard it mentioned by a reputable programmer on twitter and decided to try it. I used it regularly for several years, and it was extremely useful in helping with focus and staying on task. I feel like it helped me in a breakthrough phase of my career. The problem I found was that I could only tolerate it 2-3 times per week over the long term. Any more than that, and the edgy/anxious/irritable side effects would build up to intolerable levels. Not to mention I was buying from questionable sources online, figuring it would be too difficult to talk a doctor into prescribing me some.

Eventually though I worried about the quality of the batched I was getting online and stopped taking it altogether. But I still really struggled with focus on a daily basis and started to wonder if what I was really doing was self medicating for undiagnosed ADHD. Thinking back on my life it did sort of fit. Though I am a "successful" developer and I'm doing fairly well at life, it has always felt like I had to struggle and fight a lot more than the average person just go get through the day and stay on task. So I talked to a doctor, tried ritalin and adderall and have settled on a low dose adderall routine that really works for me. It helps tremendously with focus and motivation, and if I am diligent about maintaining a good diet/exercise/sleep schedule, the side effects are very manageable with daily use. I still think about the modafinil days, because those were good times, and it was fun to have that all day I'm on fire feeling. Adderall is nice, but I can tell that if I upped my dose to get into the realm of intense focus that Modafinil used to give me, I would also be getting pretty "high" and the comedown side effects would probably be more unpleasant.

I daily take modafinil, actually prescribed to me. I have bad problems when I take either ritalin or adderall. Not being able to sleep for over 24 hours, and panic attacks being some of the more annoying ones. Modafinil on the other hand the difference is more subtle, where if I try I can focus but I'm not trying to focus on something.

Highly recommend anyone considering it talking it over with their doctor first. The dose they sell via grey market can be rather high especially if you haven't had it before.

    Highly recommend anyone considering it talking 
    it over with their doctor first.

Do folks generally have luck getting it prescribed for ADHD and its ilk these days?

The doctors I've mentioned it to were not receptive to prescribing it off-label for attention disorders.

They didn't really seem to think it was an awful idea per se but really couldn't endorse it, and naturally they were worried about the risks of ordering it from possibly-unreliable overseas pharmacies.

I haven't been able to get modafinil for ADHD (n=1). I have heard of people getting prescriptions for modafinil because of their work schedules (e.g. being tied to the hours of a stock exchange in a different time zone).

Ah, that's interesting. Maybe I could wrangle something like that.

Have you been at a low dose for a long time? Is there something you do to reduce tolerance?

The nootropics community is usually more about substances with reliable effects across the whole spectrum of neural fauna. Modafinil has side effects that are really bad for productivity in a substantial percent of the population, like it doesn't work or it's really bad for some people with GAD or OCD and people prone to addiction or with ASD.

I'm not a proponent of having drugs be "prescription only", people should be allowed to eat what they want if they don't harm anyone else... but I personally put Modafinil under my list of stuff that you probably may need some help with if you want to try it.

Could you please expand on what you mean by "neural fauna"? I'm not sure I understand what you're referring to.

Everyone's brain is different and substances may don't affect everyone in the same way. Like how some people get addicted to coffee or cigarettes and some don't, some people get the benefits of Modafinil without the side effects and some don't. Cognitive disorders are one way to categorize this but it can be more complex than that. People with OCD or GAD are an extreme example, there's a lot of different personality types and brain structures out there, that's the "neural fauna" I'm talking about.

> I'm surprised modafinil isn't no. 1

Someone shared modafinil with me once. The effect is crazy.

As you say, it lets you focus on single task for quite a long time, without feeling tired. And I'm saying it as a person who can be easily distracted.

I never tried it again, not to mess with my brain.

It has that effect for me... but unfortunately I don't always get to choose the task. Sometimes I'll get really interested in the wrong thing, as opposed to work.

But overall I do find it beneficial and preferable to Adderall.

Yes, same thing, I get distracted easily, but modafinil is like a cheat code to getting stuff done.

-afanils don't work for everyone. Modafinil makes me both jittery and tired, and I can't focus for more than a minute; kind of like I'm badly jet lagged and just need to pass out.

My problem with Moda/Armoda is that I feel like a tweaker when I'm on it, and I only take enough to get an effect. I get sweaty, physically stressed, and just generally feel like I'm taking something that is not in my body's best interests. I have to drink liters of water to avoid a headache. I also have noticed some of the dopamine effects(increased risk taking and addictive behaviors). I'm slightly bipolar though(type II, pretty mild) so maybe it's just not for people like me.

It does work pretty well for focus though, and is really nice for my middle-aged brain which often is tired throughout the day.

Do you have a site you use to purchase your modafinil? And how did you decide dosage?

EDIT... and it looks like this is a controlled substance. I didnt know

I'm not sure about HN policy here regarding linking to such things. For a couple of years I ordered from Afinil Express, who have semirecently changed their name to Shark Mood. You can guess/Google the URL. For security you'll definitely want to use cryptocurrency and not a credit card; apparently the issue is shady overseas card processors and not the merchant(s) themselves FWIW.

As far as dosage, it's really trial and error I suppose. Generally each pill is meant as a single dose AFAIK. You can always dip your toes in the water by starting off with 1/4 or 1/2 a pill.

I generally do 1/2 a pill before breakfast and 1/2 a pill before lunch (on work days) and roughly half that amount on off days.

Gf had a huge stash she ordered from India years back. I almost ran through them over the years so will need to restock but it doesn't seem as big of a deal as getting rec drugs, more like ordering steroids

It’s only schedule IV. The other stimulants are schedule II because they can be abused.

Have you tried Dexedrine? It’s the right handed enantiomer of adderall which has less pronounced effects on heart rate, etc.

Dexedrine is great for me except for two things. I need to drink a tremendous amount of water and I don’t grind my teeth but I sort of lightly chatter them together. Apart from that it enhances just about everything - memory, focus, ability to socialize, executive function.

The mild oral fixation and water thing is a little annoying, but overall it’s worth it for how much easier it makes a lot of things (including for my family).

Awesome, thanks for sharing your experience! How does adderall compare to it? What about modafonil?

I can't compare it to those, but I have tried Lisdexamfetamine. It's supposed to break down slower and more steadily, creating less intense spikes and drop offs in the uptake of amphetamines, but my experience was very poor. I'm not sure why.

It seemed as though I'd increase focus, but not use it as well. Even worse, I'd typically be quite aware of my misused attention. Otherwise I tended to notice physical side effects like dry mouth and perhaps not dizziness but a sort of floating, poorly grounded sensation at times.

I used it for 3 months and stopped using stimulants for close to a year as a result. It works really well for some people, but threw me off fairly badly.

In any case, the active ingredient in these is the same, the delivery is just slightly different.