News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by TOMDM on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:21PM (#27908281)
Lets be explicit about what happened here.

A) A journalist brought light to the comments made by a journalism professor.

B) Said journalism professor's employer chose to fire her for those comments.

Now, I think there is little room for taking issue with point A. If we're at the point where Journalists can't discuss the views of people in their own space, I have very little hope for a future environment of open and honest discourse.

On point B, I think there are many views people can hold which justify firing someone. The only question is where you draw the line. If an employee was actively spreading hateful messaging concerning a coworker in their own time, away from work, I think most people would agree firing that person is an acceptable course of action (I understand that wasn't the case here).

I also think there are a great number of people that believe pushing hateful discourse, even on your own time means that you are unfit for the workplace given that those views aren't conducive to a healthy work environment.

In this case they were pushing some rather racist discourse. They said in response to an article about Muslims "Scum. Deport them. They hate us. Get rid of them."

Obviously the point where you draw the line on acceptable discourse is in degrees, with active harrassment/hate of coworkers on one end, active hate towards a general group in the middle, and some kinds of conspiracism on the other. Where you draw the line is open for discussion, but lets not pretend it's not acceptable to have a line at all.

EDIT:

Other people are pointing out that Joshua doxxed Francesca using priveleged information from their Disqus platform. While I think that's condemnable, I find it largely immaterial to how Francesca's employer chooses how to react.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by mikeyouse on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:26PM (#27908344)
I'd argue that someone who talks like that needs to be fired from their position. She was a professor at a State owned college, there are certainly muslim students, professors and staff there. What kind of horrible hostile work environment would you be engendering if you let someone like that stay on staff?
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by mc32 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:31PM (#27908406)
There was an activist professor at a university in Colorado [mr Churchill, I believe] who used to say some foul things about some people --but said it in sympathy to native Americans.

He said the US deserved 9-11 and so on.

This professor was protected by the university in spite of calls to have him fired because they said the university needs diverse voices, even if they are violent and they would protect his 1A rights...

Things have changed...

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by chris11 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @03:29PM (#27910944)
I don't remember it that way. He did say the US deserved 9-11, and called people who worked in the World Trade Center "little Eichmanns".

But his essay was kind of ignored until 2005. Then CU Boulder investigated him for academic misconduct and fired him. The committee concluded it wasn't serious enough to fire him, and he later successfully sued the university for firing him. Media was reporting on his firing as having major free speech implications.

Academic misconduct should be punished. But to me it looks like one of the major motivations for his firing was his extremely offensive comments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Churchill#Activism_on_Nat...

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by baobabKoodaa on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @03:59PM (#27911324)
> Things have changed...

Let me get this straight: someone who expressed hateful left-leaning political opinions was _not_ fired, and then later someone who expressed hateful right-leaning political opinions _was_ fired? What changed, exactly?

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by mc32 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @04:19PM (#27911598)
I think there was more willingness to defend these kinds opinions on principle based on the 1A and, importantly, defending someone on principle wasn't conflated with supporting that PoV. But now that is no longer the case. Now people claim that there are exceptions and also that while the 1A exists, it does not protect individuals from repercussions (job loss) even if state jobs.

I think that is a significant shift (even if yes, we do see a free pass for the likes of Sarah Jeong[1] for example.

[1]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45052534

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by baobabKoodaa on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @04:33PM (#27911764)
I agree with you that there's been a shift in general attitudes towards freedom of speech. I disagree with you regarding where that opinion has shifted. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you view this shift as occurring "across the board". I don't think that's the case. To me it seems that left-leaning people have shifted into very pro-censorhip views (against anyone who disagree with them), while right-leaning people have not shifted into pro-censorship views. You have now provided 2 examples of people who have (arguably) spewed hateful rhetoric, but didn't face harsh consequences for their actions. Both of those examples are left-leaning people. It does not strike me at all surprising that these left-leaning people were not censored, because the pro-censorship movement appears to be facilitated exclusively by people on the left, and of course they're not going to censor their own.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by mc32 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @05:17PM (#27912332)
I think that's correct. There is less acceptance of free speech if it's "alt-right" than if the speech is coming from the "alt-left". I agree.

It's frightful to see that defending the 1A on principle is seen as an endorsement of objectionable views.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by DrewRWx on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @06:02PM (#27912771)
It's more that defending the spirit of the first amendment only on principle is seen as being disconnected from reality and ignoring the effectiveness of rhetoric in eroding the rights of vulnerable populations.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by wizzwizz4 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:31PM (#27908405)
> In her suit, Viola acknowledged writing most of the posts. But she denied being behind the anti-Muslim screed.

Most of the rest of it seems like bog-standard US political polarisation, and if she didn't write the bigoted stuff…

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by mikeyouse on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:37PM (#27908486)
So she wrote all of the borderline bad things under her unique account, but not the really bad things. Sure. Let's give her that benefit of the doubt.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by wizzwizz4 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:40PM (#27908533)
> under her unique account,

It's Disqus; it doesn't work like that. Anyone can use any username.

> So she wrote all of the borderline bad things

I like them as much as you do (possibly less), but a large proportion of the US population has been radicalised in this way. It's not so cut and dry as I'd like these situations to be. (I'd delete that kind of thing if I were moderating, though; that's an obvious thing to do.)

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by ceejayoz on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:58PM (#27908843)
> It's Disqus; it doesn't work like that. Anyone can use any username.

https://help.disqus.com/en/articles/1717153-registering-a-co...

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by nitrogen on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @04:07PM (#27911424)
> Note that usernames are only for login and moderation purposes, and you have the option to display a different name with your comments after you have finished registering.

Is this what they were referring to?

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by mikeyouse on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @09:18PM (#27914246)
Nah, this part:

> Usernames must be unique and can only be registered by one commenter at a time. If you are seeing this message, it means your desired username is already taken, and you should try registering a different name.

The journalist didn't just google that username and assume everything he read was from her or something, he simply clicked on her linked account in the Disqus system and read/screenshot what else she posted. She's obviously lying when she said that the racist comments, but only the racist ones were written by someone else.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by ALittleLight on Thursday July 22, 2021 @02:37AM (#27916111)
Not clear. Suppose she has a spouse, roommate, son, friend, etc who uses the same computer and since her account is automatically logged in, comments from the same account.

If she could bring someone who would say "Yes, I wrote that on her account" or show that the time of the comment she was teaching or something - I think that would be pretty compelling.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by ceejayoz on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @04:45PM (#27911935)
I think they were referring to the guest commenting option.

https://help.disqus.com/en/articles/1717211-guest-commenting

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by wizzwizz4 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @03:10PM (#27910681)
Huh. Guess there's no moral dilemma then.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by mikeyouse on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:57PM (#27908837)
> It's Disqus; it doesn't work like that. Anyone can use any username.

Nah, if you click through a username, you can see where else they commented if they're logged in. And the chances of her leaving comments with that login at Breitbart / Drudge Report but not Gateway Pundit are so vanishingly small to not even consider.

But yeah, most of her really off-the-rails stuff was at properties the Nieman Labs guy didn't control so he couldn't delete, it seems like she wrote dumb nonsense on his page partially identifying herself and then he just clicked through to read the rest of her garbage she was writing all over the internet about every silly right-wing conspiracy theory du jour.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by colinmhayes on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:36PM (#27908475)
I'm sure the muslim students would believe that the comment written by the account she controlled wasn't written by her.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by wizzwizz4 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:39PM (#27908522)
Which depends on the philosophy behind the firing. Was it punitive, or to prevent ongoing harm?
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by whimsicalism on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:33PM (#27908447)
Likely...
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by fennecfoxen on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:36PM (#27909380)
She is a professor at a state college. The state is obligated to follow the law, including the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, declaring that "Congress shall make now law... abridging the freedom of speech." Yes, this is incorporated against the states. Yes, it applies to state-run colleges. The firing MAY be legal if this speech is "disruptive" to the university or "subversive" of their goals; if so, the firing must satisfy a balancing test as to whether:

• the employee's speech addresses a matter of public concern.

• their free-speech interests outweigh their employer’s efficiency interests.

The comments do seem to be on a matter of public concern, which is typically interpreted quite broadly. The criteria used to assess these efficiency interests include whether the speech:

• Impairs discipline or harmony among co-workers.

• Has a detrimental impact on close working relationships for which personal loyalty and confidence are necessary

• Interferes with the normal operation of the employer’s business.

Any litigation over this firing would focus on whether these are real factors that would disrupt teaching, or whether the university officials are just punishing her for her politics. The specific tweets are presumably not directed against any individuals who are at the college, and do not involve the college's normal operations. This does undermine the case somewhat.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by carols10cents on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:47PM (#27909535)
Her lawsuit is against the Neiman Lab for defamation, not her employer for wrongful termination.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by fennecfoxen on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:53PM (#27909622)
That's quite nice, but the parent comment insists her employer has a duty to do something about her conduct, while it's not at all clear it was even legal.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by mikeyouse on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @02:06PM (#27909811)
Of course it was legal - this has been litigated many times, which is how you end up with public servants (e.g. Police officers) being fired for being racist on "personal time".

You can't fire them for the speech - which is of course protected - but you can fire them because they can't possibly be qualified to hold their position while holding/espousing those views. Unless there's a specific state law protecting employees from off-duty conduct (Pennsylvania doesn't have one), employees can certainly be fired.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by Natsu on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @04:33PM (#27911765)
She specifically alleges that this comment about Muslims was not hers. I do not have any way to know if that's true or not--and I find the article's notion that she should know who did make an anonymous online comment incredibly thoughtless--but if that's true, your entire argument is wrongly premised.

I would think that she would want to prove that statement falsely attributed first in a defamation suit before going after the university.

The test above is correctly quoted, the only dispute is factual which none of us here has the evidence to resolve. She may be lying or telling the truth, but we can't make any grand pronouncements about whether the university was right or wrong on the basis of disputed factual claims that have yet to be resolved in court.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by carols10cents on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @10:00PM (#27914472)
If she succeeds in proving that she didn't make the one comment about Muslims wasn't made by her, and thus she was defamed, then she would have to prove that the university fired her for that comment and only that comment. Seems unlikely to me.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by Natsu on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @11:12PM (#27914912)
If discussion here is anything to go by, that one comment is what everyone hates. I haven't seen even an allegation that the other comments were offensive in the same way yet. Even the article here makes it the centerpiece of their criticism.

And it's the one comment she says she didn't make.

I wonder if her lawyer has seen this story? Many of the comments here could be helpful in showing damages.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by carols10cents on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @03:29PM (#27910942)
If it wasn't legal, why wouldn't she be suing on those grounds instead?
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by amadeuspagel on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:39PM (#27908530)
> Now, I think there is little room for taking issue with point A. If we're at the point where Journalists can't discuss the views of people in their own space, I have very little hope for a future environment of open and honest discourse.

Really? There's very little hope for an environment of open and honest discourse without doxing people?

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by TOMDM on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:41PM (#27908556)
Sorry, I misrepresented the situation due to ignorance.

Doxxing people is condemnable, journalists discussing each others views alone is not.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by shadowgovt on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @04:52PM (#27912007)
I think doxxing is a tool. It can be used in condemnable ways.

It's also used in virtuous ways; for example, to determine whether what appears to be grassroots activism is astroturfing (https://www.businessinsider.com/astroturfing-grassroots-move...).

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by colinmhayes on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @02:53PM (#27910440)
There is no open and honest discourse without knowing who you are talking to.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by amadeuspagel on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @03:06PM (#27910626)
Strange that you say this on HN, a forum that allows pseudonymous accounts. Is the discourse here not open and honest? Less open and honest then on facebook? Regardless, if you think an open and honest discourse requires knowing who people are, you should have an explicit policy to that effect. You should not use private data entrusted to you to dox people.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by colinmhayes on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @03:13PM (#27910713)
Perhaps I should've said good faith discourse, because yes, I do not believe continuous good faith political discourse is possible when people can hide behind pseudonymity. Most political discussions online devolve into bad faith because there are no consequences. Not having anonymity is the first step toward ensuring good faith.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by spoonjim on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @06:04PM (#27912786)
What does "good faith" mean? Does it mean "honest"? For example, I, the real actual me, think that the US should vastly reduce the number of unskilled immigrants it admits, strongly secure its borders, tighten the eligibility criteria for asylum, and deport anyone found crossing the border illegally. However, on Facebook or LinkedIn I would never say this as I would get Francesca Viola'd. So it's actually my real name identity that speaks in "bad faith" and only my pseudonymous identities (on HN, Reddit, and in the voting booth) that speak in "good faith."
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by ceejayoz on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @05:09PM (#27912210)
Some of the best discourse I've had has been with folks I have no way of identifying.

Some of the worst I've seen was under their real names (including one I knew as a leadership role in a local Scouting group, and another prominent local businessman) on Nextdoor.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by zozbot234 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:35PM (#27908468)
> In this case they were pushing some rather racist discourse. They said in response to an article about Muslims "Scum. Deport them. They hate us. Get rid of them."

That's better described as religious intolerance, not quite the same as racism per se. Not that this makes the attitude any less problematic, far from it. OP is ironically projecting her own attitude onto Muslims by saying that they all hate us for not sharing their religion.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by minsc__and__boo on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:44PM (#27908605)
Sure, but keep in mind that islamophobia, xenophobia, and racism are partially overlapping phenomena.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by zozbot234 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:05PM (#27908960)
That's a bit hard to square with the fact that so much religiously-motivated hate towards Muslims comes from other self-identified Muslims. If there's some of the overlap you mention, it must be quite limited indeed.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by minsc__and__boo on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:15PM (#27909110)
Well in reference to the comment in the article about deporting muslims, the islamophobia is overlapping with xenophobia at the very least.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by TOMDM on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:10PM (#27909032)
I'd bet there's a huge overlap amongst right wing americans. Probably the same for many Western right wing populations.

If we're going to call that population limited, then yeah I'd agree

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by TOMDM on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:40PM (#27908544)
Yeah agreed.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by dukeofdoom on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:41PM (#27909453)
In all likely hood, she was talking about a subset of Muslims. Possibly the ones with terrorist tendencies. Seems like the full context needs to be examined to cast judgment.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by therouwboat on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @02:24PM (#27910059)
Article is about muslims praying/protesting in front of Trump tower in New York and as far as I know there has not been terrorist attack on Trump tower.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by dukeofdoom on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @04:33PM (#27911766)
I suppose its less defensible for sure. Still her comment seems aimed at even a smaller subset of Muslims, actually a tiny subset of those that were there on that day. Definitely less then what is claimed in a lot of posts here, that it was aimed at all Muslims.

Why were Muslims protesting in front of Trump Tower? Seems like Trump was like the first President in decades not to Bomb the shit out of one of their countries of origin. Trump had one the lowest Muslim body counts since last century.

Perhaps her comment was all about perceived ingratitude.

I've come across this before, were Americans think other countries should be grateful that they don't get bombed.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by lsh123 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @03:06PM (#27910627)
I think the key here is that person A used admin access to a product to access user B information and then made it public. I would say that the company that owns the product should also be sued since I am pretty sure this data usage is not covered in their privacy policy/TOS.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by zozbot234 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:53PM (#27908763)
> Other people are pointing out that Joshua doxxed Francesca using priveleged information from their Disqus platform.

He also seems to have done this in retaliation towards legitimate commentary and criticism of a Nieman Lab article. If there's anything that makes his behavior especially reprehensible, surely this must be it. And this also implies that her lawsuit might actually have some merit to it.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by afavour on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:06PM (#27908978)
> And this also implies that her lawsuit might actually have some merit.

How so? It's a defamation suit so the criteria are pretty clear and as far as I'm aware whether it was revenge or not doesn't have any bearing.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by shadowgovt on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @03:34PM (#27911012)
The defamation suit is claiming that his attempt to de-anonymize her false-positive-associated some reprehensible things said on another site with her, which she did not say. She isn't disputing that she said the things on the Disqus forum (or several other things on other sites).

She's either telling the truth or she's gambling that he overplayed his hand, doesn't have hard evidence to link her to those comments, and (in the context of a civil suit, which is what defamation is) lacks the resources to prove his case with preponderance of evidence. In which case, he'll be liable for damages and have to pay to "make her whole" (which could be quite a bit if she can convince the court she lost her job because of the things she's alleged to have said in that one set of comments she's suing over).

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by BizarroLand on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:37PM (#27909406)
The only thing I can think of is that maybe she had some expected right to privacy that he violated on behalf of Neiman Labs?

Either that or maybe she can demonstrate how his actions caused her harm without her harming him, but his actions were only possible as an employee of Neiman labs.

I think what will most likely happen is he will be fired and she will get an undisclosed settlement.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by adolph on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:34PM (#27908449)
C). The journalist acknowledged and apologized for his error in judgement when performing A.

https://twitter.com/jbenton/status/994303319907725312

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by spoonjim on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:27PM (#27908353)
But he used his administrative privileges on Disqus to discover her identity. If you criticized Sundar Pichai from an anonymous Gmail account should it be OK for him to look up your IP logs and dox you? I’d hope not.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by TOMDM on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:37PM (#27908494)
Yes of course using a priveleged position to dox someone is condemnable. I'll admit, I missed where Joshua Benton managed to identify Francesca Viola.

However that wasn't what I was taking issue with in the parent comment.

I think it's reasonable to expect however that:

- Journalists should be able to discuss each others views

- People who work at tech platforms should not dox their users (without a warrant)

- There is an acceptable point where an employer can fire their employees for what views they express in their private life.

So in all, is what Joshua did wrong here? I'd say so, but only because he doxxed a user. Is what the University did wrong here? It sucks where the information came from, but probably not. But even if you were to argue that there was, I find what Joshua did here to be largely immaterial towards that point, it's only how her employer chooses to react that is relevant.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by mensetmanusman on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:25PM (#27909248)
You can’t ethically separate cause and effect in this case though.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by TOMDM on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @02:17PM (#27909971)
If I wanted to analyse the ethics of the whole situation, no of course I can't.

But I can say that an unethical decision on the part of one party spurred on an ethical response from another.

If a robber breaks into a house a pedophile and discovers illicit material, are the police unethical for following up on that lead?

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by Natsu on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @04:36PM (#27911811)
It's weird, but I remember a completely different consensus on journalists publishing and using "hacked" information just last year.

Abusing one's admin position to dox someone is not really distinguishable from any principled position against publishing hacked information.

It's weird to me that this ethical consideration seems to be something that can be ignored whenever convenient.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by munk-a on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @06:18PM (#27912901)
Was this information "hacked" from the US government or a corporation? We've frequently seen dumps of information from corporations and governments that could not be acquired legally but leveraging them is, IMO, a net good. There is no "person" that's being harmed, just a company's profits.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by Natsu on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @06:50PM (#27913148)
They doxxed a person, and allegedly misattributed racist comments to the wrong person based on that info which was gathered without authorization from Disqus.

That probably shouldn't rise to a CFAA violation, but there was a supposed ethical standard around publishing hacked information, so it's a bit weird to see that ethical consensus come and go so easily.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by ceejayoz on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:31PM (#27908408)
He's not a Disqus employee. He used the moderation tools on Nieman Lab's Disqus install.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by mikeyouse on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:30PM (#27908389)
That isn't remotely the same thing - he wasn't an admin at Disqus, he was an admin on the Disqus instance at their own website. She went to his website, commented horrible things under an anonymous account, and he exposed her as a person in a position of trust. That's not even close to approaching an abuse like the CEO of Google doxxing your gmail account.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by ad404b8a372f2b9 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:37PM (#27909403)
She didn't comment horrible things on his website, only a critique of an article. He took offense to that, de-anonymized her by abusing the moderation system and looked for distasteful comments elsewhere.

I won't speak to the legality of it because I'm not qualified, but it's morally reprehensible.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by dubbel on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @02:47PM (#27910364)
That is not necessarily the order these things happened in.

He could have

1. Taken offense to this comment/taken interest in what else this user comments (which you can do without any admin tools)

2. Seen the islamophobic/xenophobic comment

3. De-anonymized the user

In this version the de-anonymization is related to the more repugnant comments, not the initial critique.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by spoonjim on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:35PM (#27908462)
How is it different? It’s a misuse of the information he had access to. He was within his rights to ban her but not to dox her (and Disqus should not have exposed email addresses to site admins).
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by mikeyouse on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:41PM (#27908549)
How is it a misuse? If you had a blog with a comment system and someone wrote horrible things, it's well within your rights to see who they are based on their registration and publish a post naming and shaming them. These are all 1st amendment protected activities. Free speech in the US is an extraordinarily broad right for very good reason. She's claiming defamation (which is one of the limits on free speech) but it's very likely bullshit given she admitted to writing the rest of the posts, just not the overtly racist ones all showing up under her account.

Take the internet away and it's even more obviously protected. If you ran a newspaper and occasionally published letters from readers, and if a racist letter showed up with a vaguely obfuscated address that was easily traceable, it would be well within your rights to write an article about the person in a position of power who sent your newspaper racist rantings.

The journalist likely violated Disqus's terms of service but in no way does that give the professor grounds to sue him.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by rhizome on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @05:50PM (#27912655)
>If you had a blog with a comment system and someone wrote horrible things, it's well within your rights to see who they are based on their registration and publish a post naming and shaming them.

I've been surfing everything from Usenet to webboards and other internet comment facilities for 25 years, how come I've never seen it? Typically the routine goes: cosmetic blocking (hiding, disemvoweling), account block, email block, ip block, then whack-a-mole for the truly persistently annoying.

Have you, and can you link to it if so?

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by inkblotuniverse on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @04:15PM (#27911546)
Personally, I find it in very bad taste.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by mikeyouse on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @05:00PM (#27912112)
In the abstract sure, but say you're the journalist in question and you discover that a professor at a major university thinks all "muslims are scum" -- is it worse taste to say "too bad about that" and do nothing or take just the barest of steps to ID her and make sure she doesn't have authority over any muslim students without them knowing about her mindset?
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by inkblotuniverse on Thursday July 22, 2021 @04:01AM (#27916557)
It's the manner of discovery that's in bad taste, abusing your position that comes with back-end disqus access.

There's a reason certain forms of evidence are inadmissible in court.

(The professor's also at fault for not anonymizing herself better, of course.)

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by threatofrain on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:06PM (#27908972)
Then-professor Francesca Viola used her institutional email to login to Disqus. This proved to be extremely problematic for her institution, Temple University.

A professor naturally speaks with the authority of their corresponding institution, whether they or the institution likes it that way. A professor is also often in a position of leadership as they supervise the fate of students.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by m_myers on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:49PM (#27909569)
> A professor naturally speaks with the authority of their corresponding institution

Does she though? She had every reason to believe her choice of email address would remain private.

By a similar token, I am currently working for <REDACTED> (on lunch break) and using a computer belonging to said entity. If you managed to work out what <REDACTED> is, would I retroactively be considered to be speaking for it?

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by threatofrain on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:59PM (#27909716)
If you are a mere student who was later uncovered to be an unsavory Twitter person, do you speak for the institution? In some ways you do, and in some ways you don't — whether or not you or the institution likes it that way. Similarly, if you are a judge or lawyer and you're later found making unsavory statements about ethnic defendants, do you speak for the institution of law? That is up to the public to decide.

Credibility and reputation aren't precisely in anyone's hands.