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Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by mikeyouse on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:26PM (#27908344)
I'd argue that someone who talks like that needs to be fired from their position. She was a professor at a State owned college, there are certainly muslim students, professors and staff there. What kind of horrible hostile work environment would you be engendering if you let someone like that stay on staff?
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by mc32 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:31PM (#27908406)
There was an activist professor at a university in Colorado [mr Churchill, I believe] who used to say some foul things about some people --but said it in sympathy to native Americans.

He said the US deserved 9-11 and so on.

This professor was protected by the university in spite of calls to have him fired because they said the university needs diverse voices, even if they are violent and they would protect his 1A rights...

Things have changed...

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by chris11 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @03:29PM (#27910944)
I don't remember it that way. He did say the US deserved 9-11, and called people who worked in the World Trade Center "little Eichmanns".

But his essay was kind of ignored until 2005. Then CU Boulder investigated him for academic misconduct and fired him. The committee concluded it wasn't serious enough to fire him, and he later successfully sued the university for firing him. Media was reporting on his firing as having major free speech implications.

Academic misconduct should be punished. But to me it looks like one of the major motivations for his firing was his extremely offensive comments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Churchill#Activism_on_Nat...

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by baobabKoodaa on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @03:59PM (#27911324)
> Things have changed...

Let me get this straight: someone who expressed hateful left-leaning political opinions was _not_ fired, and then later someone who expressed hateful right-leaning political opinions _was_ fired? What changed, exactly?

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by mc32 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @04:19PM (#27911598)
I think there was more willingness to defend these kinds opinions on principle based on the 1A and, importantly, defending someone on principle wasn't conflated with supporting that PoV. But now that is no longer the case. Now people claim that there are exceptions and also that while the 1A exists, it does not protect individuals from repercussions (job loss) even if state jobs.

I think that is a significant shift (even if yes, we do see a free pass for the likes of Sarah Jeong[1] for example.

[1]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45052534

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by baobabKoodaa on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @04:33PM (#27911764)
I agree with you that there's been a shift in general attitudes towards freedom of speech. I disagree with you regarding where that opinion has shifted. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you view this shift as occurring "across the board". I don't think that's the case. To me it seems that left-leaning people have shifted into very pro-censorhip views (against anyone who disagree with them), while right-leaning people have not shifted into pro-censorship views. You have now provided 2 examples of people who have (arguably) spewed hateful rhetoric, but didn't face harsh consequences for their actions. Both of those examples are left-leaning people. It does not strike me at all surprising that these left-leaning people were not censored, because the pro-censorship movement appears to be facilitated exclusively by people on the left, and of course they're not going to censor their own.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by mc32 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @05:17PM (#27912332)
I think that's correct. There is less acceptance of free speech if it's "alt-right" than if the speech is coming from the "alt-left". I agree.

It's frightful to see that defending the 1A on principle is seen as an endorsement of objectionable views.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by DrewRWx on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @06:02PM (#27912771)
It's more that defending the spirit of the first amendment only on principle is seen as being disconnected from reality and ignoring the effectiveness of rhetoric in eroding the rights of vulnerable populations.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by wizzwizz4 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:31PM (#27908405)
> In her suit, Viola acknowledged writing most of the posts. But she denied being behind the anti-Muslim screed.

Most of the rest of it seems like bog-standard US political polarisation, and if she didn't write the bigoted stuff…

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by mikeyouse on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:37PM (#27908486)
So she wrote all of the borderline bad things under her unique account, but not the really bad things. Sure. Let's give her that benefit of the doubt.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by wizzwizz4 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:40PM (#27908533)
> under her unique account,

It's Disqus; it doesn't work like that. Anyone can use any username.

> So she wrote all of the borderline bad things

I like them as much as you do (possibly less), but a large proportion of the US population has been radicalised in this way. It's not so cut and dry as I'd like these situations to be. (I'd delete that kind of thing if I were moderating, though; that's an obvious thing to do.)

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by ceejayoz on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:58PM (#27908843)
> It's Disqus; it doesn't work like that. Anyone can use any username.

https://help.disqus.com/en/articles/1717153-registering-a-co...

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by nitrogen on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @04:07PM (#27911424)
> Note that usernames are only for login and moderation purposes, and you have the option to display a different name with your comments after you have finished registering.

Is this what they were referring to?

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by mikeyouse on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @09:18PM (#27914246)
Nah, this part:

> Usernames must be unique and can only be registered by one commenter at a time. If you are seeing this message, it means your desired username is already taken, and you should try registering a different name.

The journalist didn't just google that username and assume everything he read was from her or something, he simply clicked on her linked account in the Disqus system and read/screenshot what else she posted. She's obviously lying when she said that the racist comments, but only the racist ones were written by someone else.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by ALittleLight on Thursday July 22, 2021 @02:37AM (#27916111)
Not clear. Suppose she has a spouse, roommate, son, friend, etc who uses the same computer and since her account is automatically logged in, comments from the same account.

If she could bring someone who would say "Yes, I wrote that on her account" or show that the time of the comment she was teaching or something - I think that would be pretty compelling.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by ceejayoz on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @04:45PM (#27911935)
I think they were referring to the guest commenting option.

https://help.disqus.com/en/articles/1717211-guest-commenting

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by wizzwizz4 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @03:10PM (#27910681)
Huh. Guess there's no moral dilemma then.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by mikeyouse on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:57PM (#27908837)
> It's Disqus; it doesn't work like that. Anyone can use any username.

Nah, if you click through a username, you can see where else they commented if they're logged in. And the chances of her leaving comments with that login at Breitbart / Drudge Report but not Gateway Pundit are so vanishingly small to not even consider.

But yeah, most of her really off-the-rails stuff was at properties the Nieman Labs guy didn't control so he couldn't delete, it seems like she wrote dumb nonsense on his page partially identifying herself and then he just clicked through to read the rest of her garbage she was writing all over the internet about every silly right-wing conspiracy theory du jour.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by colinmhayes on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:36PM (#27908475)
I'm sure the muslim students would believe that the comment written by the account she controlled wasn't written by her.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by wizzwizz4 on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:39PM (#27908522)
Which depends on the philosophy behind the firing. Was it punitive, or to prevent ongoing harm?
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by whimsicalism on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @12:33PM (#27908447)
Likely...
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by fennecfoxen on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:36PM (#27909380)
She is a professor at a state college. The state is obligated to follow the law, including the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, declaring that "Congress shall make now law... abridging the freedom of speech." Yes, this is incorporated against the states. Yes, it applies to state-run colleges. The firing MAY be legal if this speech is "disruptive" to the university or "subversive" of their goals; if so, the firing must satisfy a balancing test as to whether:

• the employee's speech addresses a matter of public concern.

• their free-speech interests outweigh their employer’s efficiency interests.

The comments do seem to be on a matter of public concern, which is typically interpreted quite broadly. The criteria used to assess these efficiency interests include whether the speech:

• Impairs discipline or harmony among co-workers.

• Has a detrimental impact on close working relationships for which personal loyalty and confidence are necessary

• Interferes with the normal operation of the employer’s business.

Any litigation over this firing would focus on whether these are real factors that would disrupt teaching, or whether the university officials are just punishing her for her politics. The specific tweets are presumably not directed against any individuals who are at the college, and do not involve the college's normal operations. This does undermine the case somewhat.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by carols10cents on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:47PM (#27909535)
Her lawsuit is against the Neiman Lab for defamation, not her employer for wrongful termination.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by fennecfoxen on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @01:53PM (#27909622)
That's quite nice, but the parent comment insists her employer has a duty to do something about her conduct, while it's not at all clear it was even legal.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by mikeyouse on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @02:06PM (#27909811)
Of course it was legal - this has been litigated many times, which is how you end up with public servants (e.g. Police officers) being fired for being racist on "personal time".

You can't fire them for the speech - which is of course protected - but you can fire them because they can't possibly be qualified to hold their position while holding/espousing those views. Unless there's a specific state law protecting employees from off-duty conduct (Pennsylvania doesn't have one), employees can certainly be fired.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by Natsu on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @04:33PM (#27911765)
She specifically alleges that this comment about Muslims was not hers. I do not have any way to know if that's true or not--and I find the article's notion that she should know who did make an anonymous online comment incredibly thoughtless--but if that's true, your entire argument is wrongly premised.

I would think that she would want to prove that statement falsely attributed first in a defamation suit before going after the university.

The test above is correctly quoted, the only dispute is factual which none of us here has the evidence to resolve. She may be lying or telling the truth, but we can't make any grand pronouncements about whether the university was right or wrong on the basis of disputed factual claims that have yet to be resolved in court.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by carols10cents on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @10:00PM (#27914472)
If she succeeds in proving that she didn't make the one comment about Muslims wasn't made by her, and thus she was defamed, then she would have to prove that the university fired her for that comment and only that comment. Seems unlikely to me.
Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by Natsu on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @11:12PM (#27914912)
If discussion here is anything to go by, that one comment is what everyone hates. I haven't seen even an allegation that the other comments were offensive in the same way yet. Even the article here makes it the centerpiece of their criticism.

And it's the one comment she says she didn't make.

I wonder if her lawyer has seen this story? Many of the comments here could be helpful in showing damages.

Re:A Twitter thread sparked a lawsuit against Nieman Lab’s f... by carols10cents on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @03:29PM (#27910942)
If it wasn't legal, why wouldn't she be suing on those grounds instead?