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Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by JakaJancar on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @07:42AM (#27590434)
Nice to see government tech that’s well-designed and a positive article about it.

Clicking the link, I must admit I was expecting a privacy or security disaster. We should highlight the good stuff more often.

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by est on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:37AM (#27592193)
> tech that’s well-designed

The only criticism I can think of, is the QR code is too "fat". It would have scanning difficulties in low-light conditions, especially QR readers with cheap cameras with low ISO tolerance. The Base45 encoded bytes should be cut at least by half to make fast scanning possible.

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by radicalbyte on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:58AM (#27592493)
We've tested it extensively and, on modern hardware it's very easy to scan from a screen.

The paper version is less good as paper bends..

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by kiallmacinnes on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @11:00AM (#27592521)
It's about as thin as it can be, given the requirements for offline validation, and the environment it's designed for (airports / other national borders etc).

Nobody wants every verification resulting in a ping back to some central server doing who knows what.

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by kolinko on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:42AM (#27592268)
Low-light might not be an issue for people who will show the code on a mobile device. At least in Poland the code is available through the government id iphone/a droid app. Some people may print it, but most will probably just use the app.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by hanoz on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @11:50AM (#27593210)
Not long ago this kind of technology and anyone working on it would have been given a pretty rough ride on this forum, no matter how well designed. Now it's those raising concerns who are being hounded out with down-voting. How times have changed.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by dirkx on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @12:14PM (#27593531)
It was tested pretty extensively (and was already in use in public transport) -- including tests in muddy fields @ festivals with bad wifi and bad light.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by marcoc on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @12:25PM (#27593678)
Do you have a source for this information?
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by y04nn on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @08:25AM (#27590775)
So now, bar/restaurant owners can reliably track their customers: age/name, how often they come in each branch. Large franchise would also be able to track where and how often their customers travel and what they eat. I think this is real privacy issue. If you what to store the data, please anonymize it first, at least when it leaks it would be a lesser privacy disaster.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by sltkr on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @08:46AM (#27590945)
In the EU, using this data to track customers would be illegal. That doesn't mean it can't happen, of course, but it should deter particularly large franchises from abusing this data.

In the US, bars often ask for photo ID to verify that customers are old enough to be served alcohol. That doesn't seem to lead to widespread customer tracking.

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by pigeonhole123 on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @09:49AM (#27591583)
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by TedDoesntTalk on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @09:35AM (#27591415)
> bars often ask for photo ID to verify that customers are old enough to be served alcohol.

1. This is a subset of all customers so it is not as useful as all customers

2. I’ve never seen a bartender or waitress scan my photo ID or record the data on the ID; without that it isn’t highly unlikely the data is being stored.

Your comparison is just not valid.

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by hamandcheese on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:01AM (#27591704)
There are some bars in Sacramento, CA that not only scan your ID, but scan your face, and use facial recognition to match you with previous scans, ostensibly to make sure you aren’t sharing an ID with someone underage.

It is extremely creepy.

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by ccn0p on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:28AM (#27592064)
time to avoid those bars. extreme oversight to ensure a 20-year-old doesn't drink. but hey at least the same 20-year-old can drive a car, vote for our public officials, and join the armed forces.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by yread on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @11:20AM (#27592772)
and buy a gun
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by excitom on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:52AM (#27592400)
Ever go to a cannabis shop in California? Your driver's license is scanned. I don't know about the facial recognition part, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by TedDoesntTalk on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @03:07PM (#27595801)
Great! But I think we're talking about bars and restaurants.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by CRConrad on Sunday June 27, 2021 @11:03AM (#27652119)
Isn't it funny how shit like that is only reported from the USA? Here in the EU, the bartender looks with his eyes at the photo ID the teenage girl is holding up[1] and then pours her a drink.

But Yanks screech about European surveillance states, and denounce the evil EU and its "sheeple" citizens... Much better over there, of course, where it's just corporations and not the eevul gubmint that's doing it.

___

[1]: That she borrowed off her elder sister...

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by sunshineforever on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:22AM (#27591973)
There's a gas station store that does this in Portland OR. They have a facial recognition camera at the door that scans each person to enter the store after sundown.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by BurningFrog on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:34AM (#27592140)
I have a lot of sympathy for people working late night in crime prone jobs.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by ccn0p on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:26AM (#27592032)
why has this been downvoted so much? what's false about these two statements? Should he/she have added "in my experience"?

In my experience, both statements are accurate.

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by hungryforcodes on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:59AM (#27592512)
I don't get the downvotes here - these are two good observations.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by jdavis703 on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @11:37AM (#27593029)
Probably because it seems like personal experience. I can say most of the bars I go to check everyone’s ID, regardless of age. And there are a couple near me that scan IDs in to some system (allegedly so they can ban unruly customers.)
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by hungryforcodes on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @01:06PM (#27594234)
Surely this is down to regional variation. I go into bars all the time in Canada and no one ever IDs me.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by vianneychevalie on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:52AM (#27592408)
I disagree with you. I have regularly had my ID scanned, in some bars systematically (all customers). Although only in the UK.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by godelski on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @12:09PM (#27593465)
> In the US, bars often ask for photo ID to verify that customers are old enough to be served alcohol

If I saw the person pull out a notebook and write my information down I would physically take my ID back and walk away. I'm pretty sure most people would be put off by this action.

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by flutas on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @12:32PM (#27593793)
How about if they put it in a machine that verifies it as legit, but also just so happens to scan it in to a DB.

I've seen this exact setup before, in an entrance to a club, but no one seems to care.

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by godelski on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @02:22PM (#27595235)
I mean now we're getting into human psychology. You're right that people don't care as much but I'd argue that they don't really understand what is happening and how that data is used.

I'd wager that the vast majority of people think the machine only checks if the ID is valid and doesn't do anything else.

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by quitethelogic on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @12:15PM (#27593550)
I would be put off by it as well, but good memory and cameras are harder to spot, so the lack of a notebook doesn't offer much protection.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by radicalbyte on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @11:01AM (#27592535)
Usage is explicitly limited by the EU law:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...

Article 10

Protection of personal data

1. Regulation (EU) 2016/679 shall apply to the processing of personal data carried out when implementing this Regulation.

2. For the purpose of this Regulation, the personal data contained in the certificates issued pursuant to this Regulation shall be processed only for the purpose of accessing and verifying the information included in the certificate in order to facilitate the exercise of the right of free movement within the Union during the COVID-19 pandemic. After the end of period of the application of this Regulation, no further processing shall occur.

3. The personal data included in the certificates referred to in Article 3(1) shall be processed by the competent authorities of the Member State of destination or transit, or by the cross-border passenger transport services operators required by national law to implement certain public health measures during the COVID-19 pandemic, only to verify and confirm the holder’s vaccination, test result or recovery. To that end, the personal data shall be limited to what is strictly necessary. The personal data accessed pursuant to this paragraph shall not be retained.

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by y04nn on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @02:10PM (#27595052)
Thanks, it makes the limits of the processing much clearer and should stop some start-up to develop a custom QR code scanner/app that would generate some customers analytics.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by dolmen on Friday June 25, 2021 @06:25AM (#27628994)
Especially as technical details are widely available. https://sanipasse.fr/french-health-pass
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by radicalbyte on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @09:26AM (#27604294)
Oh they're trying - I'm pretty well known person in the community, and the amount of "start-ups" and seedy "one man CEO" types there is.. overwhelming.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by pftburger on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:32AM (#27592117)
The system is actually comprised of two apps, CovPass and CovCheck.

Both are in the repo.

The check app validates the pass in-app, and, as far as I can tell, doesn’t phone home or report any data. IE there is no logging of the scanned persons data

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by DeusExMachina on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:36AM (#27592185)
And what prevents the checker from taking screenshots or recording the screen to harvest the data later?
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by 34679 on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:49AM (#27592358)
The same thing that prevents them from stabbing you and taking your money. It's illegal and wrong.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by mmcnl on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @01:18PM (#27594390)
It's illegal due to GDPR.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by torgard on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:50AM (#27592384)
For one thing, GDPR. It's illegal.

Apps can also be configured to prohibit (or at least make it harder make) screenshots/screen-recordings. It can of course be circumvented, but still. It's illegal.

I would consider it as safe as showing my ID to a bartender/bouncer. Safer, even, as they don't get as much data.

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by moron4hire on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @11:28AM (#27592899)
Mah dude, they're already doing that from your credit card information.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by detaro on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @08:38AM (#27590883)
If you want to store the data, don't, because it's a textbook example of illegal. And hopefully people will be paying close attention to what offered apps do.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by Mega1mpact on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @03:29PM (#27596060)
But the chance of getting caught is next-to-zero, enfocement is very spotty when it comes to GDPR and I wouldn't be suprised if you could easilly sell that data to an off-shore company
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by BurningFrog on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:43AM (#27592288)
Even if you care about this, it's only used during the current Covid restriction phase. In 1-2 years at the most* any investment in such a tracking scheme will be obsolete.

* Famous last words, I know

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by gillesjacobs on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @11:56AM (#27593301)
Then why specify a field in the format for "targeted diseases"?
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by _ph_ on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @12:35PM (#27593826)
An almost uncharacteristic case of reason and foresight. We are currently worried with Covid-19, but considering all the variants already present, lets just hope that there isn't a Covid-22. In any case, as soon as there are dedicated vaccinations against the variants, it is very likely that there is need for more fine-grained tracking. That is probably also the reason they include the vaccines used in the data set.

And even if we don't have the need to check for our vaccination state when going to restaurants soon enough, it would be good if those certificates could be used to track any other vaccination you get. Just as the replacement or digital alternative for the usual yellow vaccination booklet. It would make checking your vaccination status for your doctor much easier than trying to decipher what a colleague has scribbled many years ago.

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by dirkx on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @12:15PM (#27593551)
This is meant for traveling. Countries like the Netherlands use Zero Knowlege proof based solutions for domestic use.

To exactly prevent this from happening.

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by baud147258 on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:25AM (#27592015)
large franchise can already do that with customer fidelity programs anyway...
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by y04nn on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @02:01PM (#27594942)
They do, but you can opt out, here the check is mandatory, the same for paying by credit card, you can use cash.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by zaarn on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @08:34AM (#27590862)
GDPR Breach, plain and simple. No franchise would risk storing and leaking what amounts to medical records (since that is the source) in front of a GDPR Watchdog. Pretty sure you'd get the hammer if you did that.

Either way, the official apps that let you check the record do not allow tracking, only verification. The simple solution is that if you don't see them using the official app, simply leave.

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by michaelt on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @09:16AM (#27591202)
> the official apps that let you check the record do not allow tracking, only verification.

So why are name and date of birth included in the QR code?

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by mtmsr on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @09:26AM (#27591288)
Because you need a way for the pub to authenticate that this is indeed your qr code (matching your id)
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by Mediterraneo10 on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @01:23PM (#27594449)
The EU standard was developed for the purposes of avoiding additional quarantine or testing during cross-border travel, not going to pubs within one’s own country. For domestic use of proof of COVID vaccination, some countries developed their own internal standards alongside the EU standard.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by raxxorrax on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @02:49AM (#27601539)
Not currently visiting pubs, I still wait until they stop validating their guests.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by nottorp on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @02:21PM (#27595208)
I don't think name and date of birth are enough for identity theft anywhere in Europe...
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by solarexplorer on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @09:28AM (#27591312)
To check with your passport/id card that this is your QR code and not someone else’s…
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by fsw on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @09:28AM (#27591323)
To compare it with name and DOB in the government ID.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by bigiain on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @09:24AM (#27591272)
I would guess so that they can use more traditional ID (like a drivers license) to confirm the vaccine record is yours.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by gpvos on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:12AM (#27591846)
> The simple solution is that if you don't see them using the official app, simply leave.

It'd be easy to make something that looks like the official app but does store the information, especially if that app is open source (is it?).

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by libertine on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:23AM (#27591987)
That's beyond the point of GDPR, even if they collect the data illegally the value would be to reach the person (to give them promotional content, advertising, custom experience, what ever...)

Basically even if they collected the data they wouldn't be able to use it. If they just collected your name to personalize your experience they'd be literally in deep shit if someone asked: "where did you get this information from?" - which to you may sound a weird question, but since 2018, at least in my country, more and more people ask this question.

When in doubt, report. They'd need to show to authorities that the person gave explicit consent to store that data and to be used for personalized experiences.

It's about consent. If the user didn't give consent you have no use for the data, and you'll be storing toxic material to get you fined.

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by zaarn on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @09:38AM (#27604428)
An app faking the official look would open you up to so many liabilities and the GDPR watchdogs will probably just drool at the thought of anyone trying to defend that in a court after getting hammered by record fines.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by originalvichy on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @09:32AM (#27591385)
And what has been stopping malicious companies from doing this before? To enter bars in most European countries you are already required to show identification prior to entering.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by riffraff on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @09:56AM (#27591648)
> To enter bars in most European countries you are already required to show identification prior to entering.

this has never been a thing in any European country I've been in. Maybe if you look underage, but definitely not the norm.

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by mmcnl on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @01:20PM (#27594410)
Never happened to me. Never heard of this happening. Seems anecdotal and likely not widespread at all.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by zekica on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @12:49PM (#27594046)
I have never been asked to show my ID at any bar in any country in the EU I travelled to.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by CRConrad on Sunday June 27, 2021 @11:09AM (#27652158)
You must have been to more European countries than I have...

(Twelve, I think.)

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by Dma54rhs on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @12:22PM (#27593647)
Absolutely not true unless you're a kid.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by refurb on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:08AM (#27591797)
From a US perspective: 1) ID is usually not required but rather checked when is not clear and 2) it’s usually a visual check not a scan of the ID (though I know some bars do do this) so nothing is electronically captured.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by justinmchase on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @09:09AM (#27591121)
It sure seems like a privacy disaster. How could you say its not?
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by kevincox on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:01AM (#27591715)
It does contain a bit more information than required, such as the specifics of the vaccine. But I think the personal information such as name is required. The code needs to be tied to some form of ID otherwise a single code could be copied and used by everyone. So the name and date of birth are likely used so that it can be compared to your drivers license or passport to ensure that the QR code actually belongs to you.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by sunshineforever on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:26AM (#27592025)
Couldn't someone just generate a fake QR code with their name and DOB on it?
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by kevincox on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:29AM (#27592076)
IIUC the data in the QR code is signed, the article mentions it but doesn't show the signature.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by mmcnl on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @01:22PM (#27594438)
DCC (Digital Covid Certificate it's called, not Digital Green Pass) is essentially a spec for a QR code (as demonstrated nicely in this post) + an EU signing gateway which is used for signing the certificates. The EU acts similar to a CA in case of SSL certificates.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by alkonaut on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @12:41PM (#27593923)
At the very least it should be signed. Also, the issuing authority is on there so it should be possible to verify the information if necessary too.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by distances on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @11:25AM (#27592852)
They could also produce a fake vaccination booklet, or fake Covid test result. I'd guess both of these would be easier. All will result in forgery charges if caught. I think the chosen approach is pretty solid for the purpose.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by girst on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:13AM (#27591853)
>It does contain a bit more information than required, such as the specifics of the vaccine.

between eu member states, the acceptance of e.g. sputnik-v (the russian corona vaccine) varies. having the name (or id) of the vaccine in the code allows countries who don't recognize a given vaccine to validate codes issued by other eu nations, who are more open to such a vaccine. (what a horriblly worded sentence, i hope you get what i'm trying to say)

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by kevincox on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:16AM (#27591894)
Yes what is "required" is controversial. What I meant to say is that they could have chosen to go for a yes/no type of verdict but instead they chose to let the reader decide if they consider the protection acceptable. Both decisions have pros and cons.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by distances on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:28AM (#27592059)
What's "acceptable" can vary by country. They couldn't have done this with the acceptance bit only.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by lxgr on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:46AM (#27592332)
Additionally, the situation is constantly changing. A vaccine effective today might be considered insufficient tomorrow, e.g. due to mutations, new studies etc.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by rsynnott on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @11:18AM (#27592751)
> It does contain a bit more information than required, such as the specifics of the vaccine

That seems reasonable; it's totally plausible that a future variant defeats a vaccine, and at that point you would want to be able to detect people who'd been given that one.

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by meibo on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @09:45AM (#27591534)
No server is involved in scanning/verifying the QR codes, the only privacy violation would possibly be the people scanning the code taking the name/DoB for themselves but that would be a GDPR violation and I'd guess no legitimate business would try that.

I'd be showing my ID/vax record to those restaurants either way so it just seems like a technicality in the end. If you don't like it, don't use it, like all covid apps in the EU.

Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by Haemm0r on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @01:00PM (#27594160)
In Austria you could use https://qr.gv.at to check the qr codes without installing an app. I don't think that it does any further verification than parsing the data.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by VOSgqcSyGdPhGWP on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:01AM (#27591717)
This includes more information than necessary to verify whether a person has been vaccinated.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by looperhacks on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @11:28AM (#27592901)
Which information do you think is unnecessary?
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by VOSgqcSyGdPhGWP on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @03:46PM (#27596267)
Almost all of it. The only thing it needs to contain is name, whether you are "immune" (vaccinated or natural antibodies), and a signature to verify it hasn't been tampered. When you were born, which vaccine you received, and when you received it are not necessary to show that you won't be spreading the disease.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by Dagonfly on Thursday June 24, 2021 @05:36AM (#27615534)
Some EU countries have restrictions that get lifted after the first shot (e.g. entry to Austria), some after the 2nd shot, some 14 days after the 2nd. So the number of doses, the date of the most recent one and which vaccine (not all countries accept Sputnik).
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by CRConrad on Sunday June 27, 2021 @11:12AM (#27652187)
How does "Name: John Doe. Vaccinated (or 'Immune'): Yes" tell anyone that you, who are flaunting this pass, are the John Doe who is vaccinated? Names suck as identifiers.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by CRConrad on Sunday June 27, 2021 @03:13PM (#27654343)
And downvotes suck as counterarguments.
Re:What's Inside the EU Green Pass QR Code? by CRConrad on Sunday June 27, 2021 @07:44PM (#27656540)
And they don't improve with repetition.