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Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by FredPret on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @01:59PM (#27358655)
This is an outrage. 9.5 million people held hostage because of a few maniacs in government.

Individual liberty is truly a precious thing.

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by david38 on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:07PM (#27358781)
I have a good friend from Belarus. This isn’t what’s happening.

The current dictator has a lot of supporters, and I mean real supporters, not people “supporting” him at gun point.

It is similar I think to the situation in the US where poor people will sometimes vote against their financial interests to support an identity.

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by baskind on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:12PM (#27358853)
As someone from Belarus, this is not true at all.

While Lukashenko had some support prior to Aug 2020 election, it dropped to <5% at very best following his ruthless attack and torture of citizens and peaceful protestors.

The only people supporting him now are siloviki, i.e. military and police heads who directly benefit from him remaining in power. Although many within the police elites wish him out as well.

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by V-2 on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:22PM (#27359040)
It is generally hard to reason about public support in an authoritarian state, because such states largely control the access to information. So yes, people do hold opinions, but how do they go about forming these opinions? How many are in a position to make an informed decision?
Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by robotnaoborot on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @08:11PM (#27363166)
This is an interesting topic btw. As someone who grew up in USSR I would have to note that nobody took soviet propaganda seriously. People knew media is lying and took all information with a HUGE grain of salt. Meanwhile information is interpreted, silenced and manipulated in (at least mainstream) media all around the world. But people there often take that information for granted because they have trust in there media and believe they live in a free world. And cmon I watch western news a lot and it's full of NLP stamps and very strong opinions which you wouldn't expect from professional journalism but it's just there. The sad truth is that we all live in dystopia. Especially with modern technologies. No KGB or stasi ever dreamed of such having information about peoples lives as some facebook(or government agencies) now have. The scary thing is not surveillance it's mass surveillance. When some opposition can be detected until even they did something wrong just by some patterns like books they read or visiting hackers news.
Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by sam_lowry_ on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @03:06PM (#27359694)
> How many are in a position to make an informed decision?

State TV was not very popular even when I lived there some 20ish years ago, and now everyone and their grandma gets their news from Telegram. Telegram usage dropped a bit because many are afraid of having it on their devices, but it is still by far the most popular way of getting news.

It's really hard to estimate the number of those who continue watching state TV. The least educated and people with disabilities watch easy-to-reach Russian propaganda channels as much if not more. Those are at least captivating ;-).

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by rich_sasha on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @03:26PM (#27359981)
I do wonder, and apologies if this is naive, but with Russian being the de facto official language in Belarus, is it clear that the siloviki are even Belarusian, not Russian? Would you know if the row of riot police were Russian?

I heard this narrative before, and it strikes me as odd that you would find enough people to bully its own nation into submission - physically in the streets.

But of course that happened in Poland too, where Russian was never a widely spoken language, so clearly it’s possible.

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by thesmok on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @09:15AM (#27368291)
Oh yes, it's totally possible, and happened in Ukraine as well. Generally, a person is not inclined to think what they're doing is wrong, if their paycheck depends on it.
Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by 1270018080 on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:28PM (#27359126)
What do you think Belarus will be like in 2 years? Civil war? Coup? Lukashenko exiled or still in power? Democracy? Russia invading?
Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by fooey on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:45PM (#27359392)
Russia won't have to invade, it's more likely Belarus will be willingly annexed.
Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by baskind on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:48PM (#27359432)
Civil war is impossible, the nation is united and doesn't want violence (all protests so far have been peaceful).

Coup would've already happened if it could, there is very little chance for it now. Lukashenko has spent decades surrounding himself with loyalist.

With silence and little pressure from Europe and the US towards both Belarus and Russia (apart from symbolic "concerns"), things are unlikely to change.

As long as Putin is in power, Lukashenko will remain in power.

There are many political points for Putin to gain within Russia by annexing Belarus, so that's something that could very well happen in the next few months.

Putin and Lukashenko have had several meetings in regards to Belarus integration over the last few months, with Lukashenko getting $1.5B in donations to support his regime after these meetings. So this seems like the likely scenario. And the time frame is much shorter <12mo.

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by AnimalMuppet on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @03:31PM (#27360029)
> There are many political points for Putin to gain within Russia by annexing Belarus, so that's something that could very well happen in the next few months.

But it won't happen until Lukashenko thinks there is benefit for Lukashenko. On the bottom line, he doesn't care if it benefits Putin or not.

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by robotnaoborot on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @08:15PM (#27363212)
Where do you get that number? 5%? From Belsat tv? I'm not from Belarus but I think you are detached from reality. Go to some village or factory where people drink CHERNILA. They all would support Lukashenko. And for a good reason - many would lose their jobs. Because their factory producing some military electronics for Russian tanks would close after losing access to Russian market.
Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by pjmlp on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:11PM (#27358826)
As first generation out of Portuguese dictatorship, this is unfortunately how it starts.

When everyone realises their mistake there is no turning back for several years to come.

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by ethbr0 on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:22PM (#27359026)
Also Venezuela.
Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by failwhaleshark on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:40PM (#27359319)
Juan Guaidó wasn't elected. He and his US backers keep shouting "no, I'm the president" and "yes you are" respectively doesn't make it so. It's gangster capitalism Monroe doctrine to install another Pinochet or Branco.

The US calls Maduro a "dictator" despite being elected. The reason the US does is simple: money (which uses US ideological politics as a means-to-an-end), since he specifically stated his purpose after the death of Chávez: "Compatriots, I am not here out of personal ambition, out of vanity, or because my surname Maduro is a part of the rancid oligarchy of this country. I am not here because I represent financial groups, neither of the oligarchy nor of American imperialism ... I am not here to protect mafias nor groups nor factions. IOW, because he wouldn't sell-out his own people or his own country, so he's been marked for death/removal, his people marked for sanctions, and Fox News leads the charge smearing the man and the country to make some vampiric rich Americans more money.

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by AnimalMuppet on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @03:36PM (#27360106)
Venezuela is a dictatorship, not because Chavez wasn't elected, but because once elected, he put his finger more and more on the scales of the elections. He arrested opposition leaders so that they couldn't run effective campaigns. When Chavez died and Maduro came to power, he did more of the same, destroying the independence of the judiciary, and shutting down the opposition legislature.

Venezuela is a dictatorship whether or not Guaido won the last election. It's a dictatorship because the government took enough steps that it was impossible for anyone but Maduro to win.

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by ethbr0 on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:46PM (#27359398)
I didn't say anything about Guaidó.

I stated that Venzuala was another example where "It is similar I think to the situation in the US where poor people will sometimes vote against their financial interests to support an identity."

In Venezuala's case: poor people would rather support unsustainable state subsidies and industries, at the long term cost of running their economy and currency into the ground.

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by failwhaleshark on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:29PM (#27359142)
Godwin's law exception: Hitler and Mussolini were voted-in.

Masses of gullible idiots take much longer to realize (if ever because of ego protection) it was a bad idea after-the-fact, while students of history saw it coming. This is why direct "democracy" is a terrible idea. Governance by popularity is stupid. Ask Socrates.

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by rich_sasha on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @03:29PM (#27360009)
Well, Hitler never won an election. He was thought to be a convenient idiot by his coalition partners, serious politicians.

I’ll just leave that thought hanging there.

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by failwhaleshark on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @07:42PM (#27362896)
That's true. I just realized everything I knew was a lie. :D

NSDAP goose-stepped into office without winning a plurality of votes, almost like what happens in other countries with Electoral Colleges.

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by deepsun on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @09:54AM (#27368696)
Actually, Hitler was never voted in. His party never got majority, they took the power in non-democratic ways.
Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by dzyanis on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @03:20PM (#27359895)
Oh, please! I'm from Belarus. It hurts me to hear such words. I know people who support Lukashenko but I'd say it's truly just 3%. We have a lot of evidence that he doesn't have support but they are Junta. And it's not just words. I could go to jail for this message... Read it https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57320591
Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by sam_lowry_ on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:19PM (#27358986)
By all reasonable measures, he got 3% support in the recent elections. Around 5mln people voted, which gives 150,000 who voted for him. This is pretty much the current "elite", that is, people with a slightly higher than average life quality: local officials, school heads, upper management at state-owned organisations, security services, high-ranking officers... and their families.
Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by vlunkr on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:11PM (#27358836)
You can still be a hostage even if you want to be one.
Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by deepsun on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:42PM (#27359346)
Recent election showed otherwise. Even most loyal public (elderly rural populace) turned out from him.

He knew that of course, otherwise why did he jailed all the opposition candidates right before elections?

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by rendall on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:23PM (#27359048)
> It is similar I think to the situation in the US where poor people will sometimes vote against their financial interests to support an identity.

I would like you to pause there for a moment and suspend what you already know to be true and factual. Just consider that this analysis does not explain the popularity of Republicans among the rural poor, but it does allow Democrats to explain this inconvenient fact away.

The sad reality is that neither party actually cares for the poor and working class, but at least the Republicans are honest about it. The rural poor generally know this, and this is why Clinton lost. They did not feel her to be an honest person.

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by codeecan on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:03PM (#27358713)
North Korea has a population of 25M
Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by dgudkov on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @05:03PM (#27361264)
Belarusians had a good chance to overthrow these maniacs just a few months ago. Instead, they chose to protest softly and not make it a fierce standoff "like it was in Ukraine". Now they pay a price. I'm not judging Belarusians. Freedom is hard.
Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by livueta on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @05:34PM (#27361651)
This seems harsh, and yet:

> And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.

-- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Apropos to nothing, but it feels like mainstream Western media shut up pretty quick about Myanmar when it became evident that peaceful protest wasn't a viable strategy.

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by ArkanExplorer on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:05PM (#27358745)
Western Governments have done the same thing to their own citizenry for over a year... Melbourne, Australia is now in its 4th lockdown, a city of 5 million people, based on 50 positive PCR test results over the past week.

Australian citizens generally cannot leave their country either, for over a year.

Given that Belarus had no COVID lockdowns or restrictions, people there have enjoyed comparatively more freedom over the past year compared to the average Western citizen.

The West also takes down airliners in attempts to apprehend journalists. If you have the wrong political opinions, you can lose your job, and be unpersoned by corporate groups with ties to the Government.

The West no longer has the moral high ground and we should be aware of the propaganda levels of the world we are now living in.

I'm not defending Russia or Belarus. They are mafia states. They are just less sophisticated operators without the global media on their side.

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by dzyanis on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:50PM (#27359468)
Oh, dear! Nobody cares about covid here. Everything works as usual and we have no idea how many people died. Funeral tax profits increased by more than 50%. Government closed the border because we want to escape. The state takes revenge for our protests. And it’s impossible to describe the whole situation but political prisoners die in prison or commit suicide. Today, for example, one guy tried to cut his throat right in court https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57320591
Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by sam_lowry_ on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @03:18PM (#27359874)
That sounds like an informed opinion from someone who is now in Belarus.
Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by Nursie on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:37PM (#27359268)
This is such false equivalence it’s silly.

Travel restrictions in the west enjoy wide support and are in response to a global health emergency, not spurious political reasons put in place by someone who appears to be an illegitimate leader.

Your ‘unpersoned’ comment is laughable.

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by ArkanExplorer on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @03:15PM (#27359827)
Lukashenko and Putin enjoy widespread support. Belarus has essentially zero poverty and zero unemployment. He has been in power for 27 years. Does popular support justify tyranny, be it from COVID lockdown or to preserve a dictatorship?

What has changed in the last year to prompt these protests against him anyway?

The obvious answer is nothing, that the agitation is stirred up by the West, perhaps since he didn't bend the knee and agree to COVID lockdowns despite being offered $940 million:

https://eng.belta.by/president/view/belarus-president-unwill...

Meanwhile, lockdown in the West has clearly failed - Sweden and Ukraine, with weak or no lockdowns, have a lower per-capita deathtoll than countries that did lockdown: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deat...

And deaths are only up 6% YoY in Sweden and Ukraine, basically in line with the aging of the population and the effects of a once-a-decade flu variant (similar in mortality to Swine Flu wave in 2009).

The West is trying to start another color revolution in Belarus, as they did in Ukraine, where the US Government officials were on the street handing out sandwiches to protestors.

https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2013/1213/Russia-crie...

Is Ukraine better off since their revolution? Yes, I think so (I live here). Would Belarus be better off without Lukashenko? Possibly. However, since 2014, several million Ukrainians have fled the country to work in the EU, and a large chunk of territory has been lost.

I'm suggest that there are layers of deception and propaganda at work here that we, as intelligent IT personnel, should be aware of if we want to comment on these articles.

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by Nursie on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @03:19PM (#27359891)
> Does popular support justify tyranny

If you see travel restrictions during a pandemic as tyranny, I'm not sure I can help you.

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by rendall on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:42PM (#27359339)
Yeah, no. Australia is not Belarus. The comparison is absurd. Just, stop.

Scroll through the timeline of these Belarusians, who are literally risking their lives by exposing and combating these situations. Really take some time to grasp the situation there.

https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova https://twitter.com/franakviacorka https://mobile.twitter.com/Tsihanouskaya

Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by robotnaoborot on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @08:23PM (#27363289)
Well the girl who got arrested from that plane had a telegram channel which exposed home addresses of families of cops. And she advocated to lynch their wives and children. In western media she is called "opposition journalist". But in my book it's basically a classic terrorism.
Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by rendall on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @01:51PM (#27371790)
You're lying
Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by misiti3780 on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @02:06PM (#27358761)
What percentage of the city is vaccinated?
Re:Belarus has temporarily banned most of its citizens from ... by misiti3780 on Tuesday June 01, 2021 @03:34PM (#27360081)
Please explain why I am being downvoted - That comment was not in bad faith, I was just generally curious