Really? In my 30s I felt on top of the world. Enough wisdom to put my knowledge to good use and a fit body that only had the occasional ache. Everything went downhill around 42 though. Eyesight, hearing, processing speed, memory, sleep apnea, weight gain, hair loss, ED... I have to be on some combination of marijuana to sleep and modafinil to wake up. Exercise helps but the gains fade fast so it's basically a 10% tax on my waking hours to keep things from fading faster. Oh and when you're 40 something no one gives a shit. You're not old enough to pity, but you're old enough to be responsible for everything. You just have to keep slugging it out with reality until your mid 60s.

Exercise is probably the best thing you can do to improve your longevity. I don't have a source, but I don't think this is a controversial idea. Even long walks can help (though as someone who lives in the middle of nowhere, I can understand if this is not possible). I'm only 28, but I find that long walks on the treadmill (with my laptop in front of me, while I'm working) can really make me feel a lot better. I do have a general fitness routine I keep up with though, so that likely plays a role here.

One thing that has helped me immeasurably is taking up a hobby that gets me outside and doing some manual labor. I love gardening and I'd suggest it to anyone. I have shed several inches off my waistband since starting to garden and I find myself spending considerably less time in front of the computer screen just wasting time.

Getting up and going outside is a huge one for me. I could sit here at my desk all day working and be miserable... and suddenly I am excited at the prospect of mowing my lawn.

I mean at the end of the work day, I shut my computer... and that's it. After my lawn is mowed, I can look out and enjoy how it looks. Hell, I can work 10+ hours outside doing boring terrible tasks, shovel ditches, spread bark, weedwhacking the blackberries... but man does it feel great. I used to hate this stuff so much. Give me a paintbrush and let me go paint the shed, or build some crappy shelf to organize things.

I used to love excercise -- but a decade of power-lifting at the gym and going hard from 25-36 has destroyed my back/shoulders/hips... everything. Have been enjoying the longest streak of sciatica-free pain for the last 8 months since gyms have been locked down due to COVID. Still get out and walk lots, but I really wish I had been far more moderate with excercise when I was younger.

Yup. I wrestled in high school and college and very much destroyed my body. I lifted for years after in a way that wasnt helpful either. Now I'm getting close to 30 and I have found ways to exercise that are actually rewarding rather than mostly taxing on my body but man do I wish someone would have showed me this when I was in my 20's.

And told me that pain was actually a good indicator that one is pushing too hard with exercise.

I don’t think societies neglect for its citizens is easily tied solely to age. At least in my experience, it’s a pretty constant lack of care for me. I’ve had doctors tell me I’m making it up when I’m in shattering, blinding pain more than I care to remember. Had companies treat me like no amount of offensive behavior to outright bullying is a problem if I’m the victim. This is in 20s-30s.

Though I realize ageism is a thing. One of my 60+ coworkers has basically been told they’re too old for any sort of advancement.

Isn't this just caused by you leaving your 20's behind? At least for me I feel like I passed by my best years, and am only realizing it now.

By 60 I certainly hope to have accepted that, but right now it's still a bit hard.

I suspect the confounding variable is that late 20’s/early 30’s is when most people have kids. Happiness levels improve in late 50’s when kids are out of the house.

Kids may be “a complete joy and the best thing you’ve ever done”, but they’re also a huge financial burden, source of stress, and limiter on doing what you wanna do.

This is certainly a take.

My children, one of the greatest sources of pure, unadulterated, innocent joy, are the only reason I believe there is still good in the world and thankful that this floating rock continues to revolve around the sun so I get to enjoy them. The stress of the children and the hard work is so minuscule in comparison.

Got a better explanation?

I think it’s possible for both to be true. That kids give you unadulterated joy and also make you objectively worse off.

Generally, what I have seen, people report greater overall satisfaction with their lives if they have kids. Cant be bothered to dig up the data, but I have read about it a number of times over the years. However, deep in your 20s and 30s is when careers are taking off, kids are at their most demanding ages, etc. it’s rare to be fully established in your career when your kids are young. That means lower earnings. So, yeah, it’s stressful. It’s also rewarding. My kids are older now. They bring my joy and all that. My mid 20s were also really hard when my kids were born. I think its all pretty obvious. Kids are like type 2 fun more than type 1 for most people. I appreciate them and watching them develop was quite an amazing process, and it brought me a lot of satisfaction, but it was also hard. I think a lot of parents take umbrage at saying their kids made them worse off, it really depends on what criteria you are using? Financial? Life satisfaction? Other? Most parents probably don’t /feel/ worse off in a general way.

Yeah it depends how you ask the question.

Do you feel more fulfilled? Yes probably

Do you feel more stressed and struggling? D’oh

Typically we don’t equate “stressed, struggling, tired, and constantly drowning” as more happy. At least not in life satisfaction surveys I imagine

All of your ancestors raised children. We are machines, designed by nature to procreate.

The notion that one would be objectively better off by avoiding the very process that brought themself into being...seems unlikely to me.

Unless, we’re narrowly using the term “objectively better off” to mean what society seems to value: money, power, pleasure, etc. These things aren’t necessarily good for the organism in the way that having children is.

Hah, this is true. I’m going to keep this. By virtue of having children, I’m objectively better off than anyone that didn’t.

its not exactly true though.

happiness is related to the society you live in and your biology ... and other variables. its entirely possible that you can be both "objectively worse off/more stressed", which is generally considered to be a cause for unhappiness and still feel that the children were the best decision of your life.

its a complex topic and i dont think anyone can realistically generalize it.

there will be people that are actually unhappy because of them while still claiming happiness, as well as people that were unhappy until they finally had them.

I think constant exhaustion might have some effect on your satisfaction levels ;)

In my case, I’m also moving around a lot more, so I guess the added exercise compensates for the exhaustion in terms of effect on overall happiness.

Sure, your mortgage is paid off and you're probably in a management or other upper level position with less job insecurity.

Looked into this, since a lot of people would say this is crazy. But it turns out kids do seem to have a negative correlation with parental well-being. I found http://www.nber.org/papers/w25597 which takes a closer look at some of the possible reasons.

The article says kids make people (Europeans, anyway) happy except for the financial stress.

For the record, I (op) do not have kids. I am however married and very happy with my marriage.

lean on her more. Rely on her for comfort and if she reciprocates, it will make you feel better. You and her against the world, bonnie and clyde vibes got me through a dark time in my life.

I don’t understand why this would get downvoted?

In the age we live in it is entirely socially acceptable to be living a 20s lifestyle in your 30s and beyond. Few people I know are tied down to much if anything and enjoy travel, sport, relationships for fun and all the things your 20s are known for.

Just much less binge drinking, which is honestly a blessing.

The causative factor for the result of the surveys is kids.

Really young kids especially. It's weird because having a baby is both one of the most fulfilling parts of life but also drains you massively. I suppose the fulfillment is part of a biological desire to reproduce.

Right - I think we get a lot of in-built satisfaction and pleasure from being around or raising kids, specifically to offset just how annoying and difficult the task of raising them is.

I definitely have this built-in feeling quite broken. I left the door open to perhaps consider forming a family at some point since my first girlfriend, over the years it's only got more clear that I don't enjoy kids, at all.

I don't take enjoyment from being around kids, playing with kids or any kind of interaction with them, it makes me feel broken but I simply can't. Not even with my niece, my sisters get a lot of joy out of simply being around her, for me it's a massive energy drain, and it's been like that with every kid I had to be close to due to family or friends ties.

I'm so tired of feeling this way, now getting into my early to mid-30s and having to explain to people over and over that I do understand the ones who want kids, the ones who get enjoyment out of them, but I don't, at all. I never have and it's only got more cemented over time.

Lately I just put a façade of telling that someone's kid is cute, etc., as it's the social norm. If I was being very honest I'd just say that I don't enjoy kids, don't mind hanging out with people who have kids when they are around but I don't get any energy from having to interact with them.

It changes once you find or have something worth passing on. I don't have any kids or much materially, but I love to teach any of the skills or interests that I've picked up to any kid I get blessed with time with who shows even a mild interest.

Children, after about 3, are so much simpler to be around than adults. Though it can be draining at times if you have too many youngsters around, but your mind is chewing on an adult problem. What really gets the chemistry going is when you run into one where you see them running into the same problems you did growing up, or who has similar problems. The matching communication style but different origins make the entire experience somehow reinvigorating. Like a karmic balloon for your heart by helping someone avoid exactly retracing the life lessons you learned the hard way, and sometimes, they teach you a nugget of wisdom you'll kick yourself for not having caught..

Even if they aren't mine biologically, being a good (kind, wise, intelligent, enpathetic, independent responsible, creative, critical thinking, contributing person) is learned behavior, that the teaching is not straightforward for, but watching the lightbulb come on is one of the few things keeping me getting out of bed these days.

I like the way you out this, it resonates with my own beliefs and thoughts but I could never put it in those words.

Sort of like seeing your younger self in some kid and your advice being the cheat code.

Hao! Hao.

You're not broken. People keep asking me why my girlfriend and I don't have kids... I don't understand that question to be honest. They all act like I should have some desire to raise a kid. I ask them, why they don't learn to weld or do woodworking (usually I ask them something they have never considered)? Sometimes there are just things that people do that I don't want to. There's not actually a reason for me to not have kids. I have nothing against it, I just don't ever sit here during the day and think "boy, my life would sure be better with a baby." If you do, that's fine, I'm not trying to rag on anybody. But just fuckin' leave me alone about it.

People should never have kids 'just because'. If you want to raise a family, you should do it deliberately and have a reason why you WANT to have kids. Otherwise you end up being a resentful asshole and treat your kids like garbage. I know it's the best thing in the world for a lot of people... but for a lot of people, let's be honest, it's not. Not wanting kids doesn't make you an asshole, it makes you human with different goals and desires from other people.

Interesting statistic you should note. When people are asked whether they are happier with or without children most people pick happier. There is a positive correlation between picking happier and how wealthy someone is.

Interestingly, when asking people how happy they are on a scale of 1 to 10 without bringing children into the picture what you see is that people without children are always happier.

What I'm thinking is this. People are generally unhappier with children but certain things in the brain block most people from realizing it. How effective this block is depends on how unhappy you actually are. A person in poverty will be more self aware of the unhappiness brought on by their two screaming kids then the rich person. Not all people have this thing in the brain.

I suspect you rate high on psychopathy so you're able to see truth where other people's views are clouded and deluded by an endorphin rush. Like I mentioned you should also ask yourself how rich you are, but I think this is irrelevant to you given how you mentioned you derive zero energy from being with kids.

I’ll just throw out there that I didn’t care about kids, babies until after We had one. My brain definitely changed.

How was that feeling? Did you simply not care or did it take your energy away to be around them?

I've actively tried to change and engage more with kids for a few years, this dread never went away, it's not only I don't take enjoyment but it saps something out of me, it's quite strange as I don't feel that strongly against anything else considered normal in life...

I suppose it sapped energy in the way that any social effort does, but it was mostly apathy. I didn’t have any warm fuzzy feelings around babies, kids, puppies.

To say that I “softened” after my son came would be wrong as it didn’t feel like I was being emotionally “hard” before (as would be the stereotype for men). Something just changed and now I see/feel joy around young children (even if another part of my brain is saying god damn, they’re a lot of work).

Edit: All that said - try to stand on your own two feet. If you want to explore negative mindsets about kids, consider seeing a therapist. A good friend of mine made great strides sorting out his own hang ups with his childhood/his parents and is now a happy (tired) father. If you just don’t want kids - well, who gives a shit. Find a partner who doesn’t want kids.

It changed for me with my first daughter too.

Before that, crying/arguing kids (of e.g. friends) always gave me headaches and i never knew what to talk with them or how to interact.

Also when my wife told me she was pregnent, all i felt was 'Ok, now the ... starts' - i did not enjoy the news.

But in hospital, when my daughter was born and i sat in a chair holding here sleeping on my arms for the first time - it changed 180°. I constantly had a smile on my face and felt warmth and the need to protect here.

I also enjoy beeing around other peoples kids now and i am more open to "little jokes" to make them smile.

So it seemed to be a biological barrier for me, which i needed to be taken over by my daughter to switche to "parent-mode".

It is also quite funny to see the faces of colleagues (without kids) and how they react to kids-stories. It was the same for me before i had my own.

I'm not expected to be friendly and fun around adults I don't know -- so why is it that I'm expected to be friendly and fun around kids? They're still strangers. I dread spending time with kids I barely know in the same way I dread spending time with adults I barely know. I have friends with kids, but spending time with those kids is like spending time with those friends' parents. Yes, they're related to my friends, but they're still strangers to me.

Then I had a kid... and nothing changed about other kids. I still don't know them and I still feel awkward around them. But I do know my kid. He likes spending time with me and I like spending time with him, even though it can be boring/tiring sometimes.

I was thinking that, as I was wondering what these people are doing differently and wonder if that different thing was actually conventional rites of passage.

I was pretty unhappy as a teenager. Not as much formal responsibility (though arguably the responsibilities wrt study etc have more serious consequences), but more autonomy at least.

sorry, I mean now I have more autonomy; i.e. owning stuff/money, making choices wrt my life; but lack the free time I had.

Thanks, that's a bit relieving.

I'm 59, and pretty darn happy.

I get aches and pains from everything, though. My back is still aching from weeding a week and a half ago.