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Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by p-sharma on Saturday May 01, 2021 @01:18PM (#27007955)
I think the main factor is being already rich or being born into a rich/influential family. A lot of problems startups have suddenly disappear when you can ask your dad for a small loan of 1 million dollars or ask your mum for a meeting with the chairman of IBM. Not saying this is the only factor but this "Great Filter" that weeds out those who don't have money or contacts helps others to develop their business with less competition.
Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by nostrademons on Saturday May 01, 2021 @01:56PM (#27008311)
I feel like this is commonly believed by people with neither money nor startup experience. Sometimes it's even believed by people with money, who feel it absolves them of the need to have startup experience, and then their startup fails. Hell, could swear I've worked for a couple of these guys.

Money - lots of money, $1M basically just gives you the freedom to tinker on your own time - basically gives you the ability to hire other people to do the actual work of serving customers. If you want a successful startup, you need to know which customers, what work, and how it should be done, in a way that nobody else has figured out yet. An employee is not going to figure it out for you; if they could do that, they'd be off starting their own business. If your competitive advantage is that you have more money than everyone else, you will still fail; people who lack money are unaware of just how much money is floating around in capital markets and how little that differentiates you. Conversely, if you do have a unique insight into an untapped market that's more profitable than any existing way of doing things, financiers will be falling over each other to give you money and take a slice of those profits.

In my experience, the key reagents to a successful startup are information, insight, timing, luck, connections, and technical skills, in that order. This is largely reiterating the thesis of the article - "market matters most" - but in terms where it's the entrepreneur's job to find an untapped market, at precisely the moment in time when it's ready to be tapped.

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by hnhg on Saturday May 01, 2021 @02:23PM (#27008529)
Money gives you more throws of the dice, and often with 'better' dice.
Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by Frost1x on Saturday May 01, 2021 @03:55PM (#27009268)
Interesting to see this down-voted. This is absolutely correct. Many like to pretend money and capital don't give a competitive advantage when that's entirely far from the truth.

I think few people truly believe money guarantees success and that's rarely claimed from my experience. There are plenty of other factors that need to be met to start a successful business, but if you have money, those other factors can be focused on more intensely and you'll be less hamstringed on factors like timing and time to market, innovation/added value, network effects/marketing, and so on.

You're working at a disadvantage in most other aspects needed for a successful business if you don't have a certain baseline of capital to work from. Often times more capital infusion beyond that baseline can help. There are certain problems addressed by startups that throwing money at no longer helps and you can reach diminishing returns. That's a nice problem to have.

To your point, money can buy you a Monte Carlo (or MCMC for 'better') approach to market exploration for your businesses products/services. You can try, fail, and adapt.

For many without piles of money, starting a business can afford only one failure (if they're that lucky) in their lifetime. No retries with refinements.

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by ThalesX on Saturday May 01, 2021 @09:48PM (#27011684)
I grew up very good friends with two brothers that had wealthy parents. We built our first company together at 18 and failed.

Since then, for about 5 years I did full time corporate work while they failed maybe two dozen businesses. The nice part is that out of those failures, two companies took roots and basically now they’re a lot wealthier than their parents and they long since paid of all the money they lost during those years.

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by unishark on Saturday May 01, 2021 @11:13PM (#27012069)
Funding yourself is like representing yourself in court, you get a naive investor who doesn't know anything more than you do and doesn't reign in your dumb ideas.

While the rest of us need to get funding from experienced investors who vet our plan first. In a system where there are investors looking for people to invest in, this approach is bound to succeed more.

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by mcjkrw on Sunday May 02, 2021 @04:07AM (#27013242)
It's not as much about hiring people, but if you can afford not having to work for living at all at an early age, you can become a genius in almost anything you pick by spending e.g. 60h a week on that thing, every week, for years and not having to worry you will ever run out of cash.

On the other hand, having the money and luxuries may eliminate the so much needed evolutionary pressure on a personal level. On the company level, there's also the trap of creating a "charity business" that is not profitable, but that's if you really have loads of cash to blow / VC-funding yourself.

Please don't interpret this message as "if I was rich, I would be successful". I just think it's harder and takes more time and more sacrifice when you have to work for a living, but creating a successful company is hard either way and requires full attention.

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by guerrilla on Saturday May 01, 2021 @02:24PM (#27008539)
> gives you the freedom to tinker on your own time - basically gives you the ability to hire other people to do the actual work of serving customers

"just"? Seems like you identified it as a main factor just like the parent. It's like the difference between necessary and sufficient but put in terms of probability instead: it significantly increases the chances that it's even possible to make an attempt. It's clearly not sufficient though, as you both point out though.

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by nostrademons on Saturday May 01, 2021 @04:08PM (#27009354)
People significantly overestimate the amount of money needed to make an attempt, and then overestimate the amount that additional money helps, though. It's cheaper to found a startup than most people think; your chances of success are lower than you think, and the chances of some rich person being successful are lower than everyone (usually including the rich person) thinks.

I started my first startup with $30K, saved up from 2 years of working at someone else's startup. That bought me a year and a half of tinkering time and 4 shots at goal. It'd cost more now, particularly with Bay Area prices (I was in Boston), but we're talking about $100K, not $1M.

If you want to make an attempt, go work for a FAANG or one of the recently-public tech companies for 2 years, live like a grad student, and bank the difference. Then work for somebody else's startup for a year to see what life outside a big corp is like, then you should have 2-3 years saved up if you haven't increased your living expenses. If you can't get a job at a FAANG, unicorn, or one of the other leading companies in your field, you're probably not ready (in terms of knowledge and technical skills) to found a startup. Once you do you're looking at ~$200K/year in total comp, which saves up really fast if you're still living like peers who make $60-70K/year.

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by dzonga on Saturday May 01, 2021 @05:08PM (#27009836)
> If you can't get a job at a FAANG, unicorn, or one of the other leading companies in your field, you're probably not ready (in terms of knowledge and technical skills) to found a startup.

that's an overstatement right there. real life evidence points otherwise. lots of companies are founded on the humble crud stacks - php, django, rails etc where the founders or engineers hardly knew what they were doing.

however yeah, I agree having runway by cutting expenses buys you a lot of time to tinker around.

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by robocat on Saturday May 01, 2021 @05:25PM (#27009980)
> If you want to make an attempt

Work in a company with more than 50 people. Spend your time learning who are the two people that bring 80% of value to the business. Join those two when they go off to start their own business, which they choose to do because they are grossly underpaid at their current company relative to their impact.

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by ipaddr on Saturday May 01, 2021 @09:36PM (#27011624)
What you said doesn't sounds like a good plan or make sense.

If I can land a job at faang why would I quit after two years to start a one person startup myself with $100,000 capital live horribility for 2 years at a faang and probably 2 more years trying to live off of that 100,000.

It sounds naive. If I want my startup to succeed I can't wait two years to basically bootstrap the business. If I'm at a faang why not wait a little longer and leave with someone else and get millions in seed money?

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by alisonkisk on Saturday May 01, 2021 @04:33PM (#27009571)
If you startup isn't something like a search engine, peeing a FAANG interview is nowhere near the right filter. Being a good founder is probably anyo correlates to being a whiteboard coding worker bee
Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by claytongulick on Saturday May 01, 2021 @02:10PM (#27008431)
I've personally seen the opposite effect.

I've seen startups run by children of very wealthy people that failed because they didn't fundamentally understand the value of the dollar, or what reasonable spending should look like during lean startup times.

I've seen the repeated loans of a million dollars, and believe it or not, a million doesn't go very far in startup world. If you don't have revenue to offset your burn, you'll be in endless raise land.

This can only go on for so long, regardless of your family's money situation.

Conversely, I've seen several startups succed that were run by folks who did the obligatory teenage time working a counter at McDonald's (or equivalent). Part of their success was their ability understand and control costs, especially their lifestyle while in early stages.

I've run into many people who want to get into entrepreneurship but are unable to because their lifestyle bills are so high, they'd require a salary level that no reasonable investor is willing to pay during founding.

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by JamesBarney on Saturday May 01, 2021 @02:13PM (#27008453)
Being rich helps because you can spend 10 years not making money trying to start something.

People way overestimate how much contacts help.

We've had meeting with all types of influential people in our industry who were friends or relatives of a founder and they just haven't been that helpful.

Our most valuable contacts are people we met along the way, because they really believe in the product. And that means so much more than oh your the son of an ex coworker and you have a startup you want to tell me about during lunch.

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by ttul on Saturday May 01, 2021 @01:24PM (#27008015)
Money solves the problem of having enough kicks at the can. Getting product market fit will eventually happen. You’ll just run out of money before then, in most cases.
Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by throwaway_goog on Saturday May 01, 2021 @02:05PM (#27008383)
It doesn't. I semi-retired at 33 and then spent the time since then doing 20+ different startup ideas. Still no success. Bank account is bigger now than when I retired, but startup dreams are effectively dead.

Bottleneck is that the market moves on in the time you spend pivoting, and eventually your inside information about what's hot and what's worth building gets stale, along with your technical skills. I know a number of other entrepreneur/retirees in the same boat - 5+ years working on various ideas, often after having a previous exit - and it never seems to result in a big company.

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by alisonkisk on Saturday May 01, 2021 @04:35PM (#27009584)
Sounds like you didn't use money to hire staff and tools to accelerate progress.
Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by ganeshkrishnan on Sunday May 02, 2021 @10:46AM (#27015731)
are you just building stuff and asking customers if they really need it and would pay for it?

My startup is growing 5% every week for last 6 months and it took me 3 years to get here. If my bank account was bigger I could have done it in an year. and because I am bootstrapped I am losing my amazing tech team to highly funded companies that can give them 3x salary and stock options

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by tjs8rj on Saturday May 01, 2021 @08:55PM (#27011386)
What does your process look like? You can validate or destroy a startup idea in a day with enough conversations (if you can get them).
Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by ipaddr on Saturday May 01, 2021 @09:53PM (#27011717)
Bootstraping a second one with you as the angel investor and ceo can be difficult.

What about buy an existing startup vs bootstraping?

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by nowherebeen on Saturday May 01, 2021 @01:36PM (#27008121)
> Money solves the problem of having enough kicks at the can

Lots of people don't realize learning to read the market is also a separate skill that can't be learned through working for a company. It takes time and a few failures to wise up.

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by lprubin on Saturday May 01, 2021 @01:56PM (#27008318)
Do you have any advice or resources for "learning to read the market"?
Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by mehphp on Saturday May 01, 2021 @07:56PM (#27011066)
I suspect, unfortunately, that the true answer here is "experience".
Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by ttul on Sunday May 02, 2021 @06:42PM (#27019715)
... And confirmation bias.
Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by pedalpete on Saturday May 01, 2021 @09:32PM (#27011604)
Anecdotal, but possibly another way to look at this.

I moved to Sydney, Australia about 9 years ago. This city is VERY clqiey. For Sydneysiders, it's all about what school you went to and who you know.

But if you're a foreigner, you kinda automatically hack the system, because they don't know anything about the school or people where you're from. It doesn't even come up in conversation that I didn't go to University, like they automatically assume I went somewhere, and that they can't qualify me anyway.

This isn't a way to hack the early dollars of a rich parent who can payroll a start-up, but you may be surprised how you can get into the "right places" and meet the right people.

At the same time, if you've got the attitude that says everyone else has benefits that I don't have, you'll get that in return. Same if you just go looking for "connections" I suspect.

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by jollybean on Saturday May 01, 2021 @05:00PM (#27009748)
It's not a prerequisite, but up to upper-middle-class and it helps, but not much beyond that.

Rich kids are not starting good startups. They're not coming from mega mansions driving ferraris. Their parents are professionals, they live in what look like 'normal homes', like 'TV homes'. Usually stable family environments.

They didn't have to worry about stuff and if they got into an Ivy League school they were surely going to go.

If they got into trouble, the risk was dampened.

So 'privileged' but not 'spoiled rich'.

Basically - enough money for the 'good things' that money can get you, while avoiding the 'negative' stuff.

Most founders did not use their parents millions to get the business going.

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by ilaksh on Saturday May 01, 2021 @01:25PM (#27008025)
I agree that easy to access funding of some sort is a huge factor. However, I still think that, given access to funding, the point made by the article stands. Wherever your funding comes from. Because there is a huge difference in the size and enthusiasm of different markets and that is a massive factor in sales.

But good point. Many of these articles seem to take things like money and contacts for granted.

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by breck on Saturday May 01, 2021 @08:54PM (#27011379)
I wouldn't correlate it with wealth as much as being born with #ideaPrivilege. Plenty of people born not too wealthy who made it big, but they were born to college professor parents or born in the Valley or Redmond or Cambridge et cetera. If you can get access to great ideas early, then you've got a leg up.
Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by lordnacho on Saturday May 01, 2021 @01:45PM (#27008215)
Good point, but it seems to be more towards who gets to start the startups that succeed, rather than what startup succeeds. I think the point in the article is that the startups that succeed tend to be in hot markets.

It's clear that people who have more personal runway get more chances at trying to find the right market.

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by forgingahead on Saturday May 01, 2021 @01:24PM (#27008022)
Your comment doesn't hold up to real-world facts. Plenty of founders with startup success have come from humble backgrounds, and plenty of rich kids try to start businesses but never make anything viable or profitable.
Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by nytesky on Saturday May 01, 2021 @01:45PM (#27008225)
I would be very curious to hear about founders of successful startups from humble backgrounds, and curious what you consider humble? For me, that would be growing up going to a non-elite public high school, college on scholarship, parents who are like plumbers or high school teachers or insurance agent.
Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by nostrademons on Saturday May 01, 2021 @02:15PM (#27008480)
Steve Jobs of Apple (machinist and accountant parents, neither of whom had a college degree. Dropped out of Reed College).

Jan Koum of Whatsapp (Ukrainian immigrant, came to U.S. with nothing, was on food stamps as a teenager).

Brian Chesky of AirBnB (child of social workers, attended RISD).

Sergey Brin of Google (parents were professors, but emigrated from the Soviet Union with nothing. Attended University of Maryland).

Marc Andreesen of Netscape, Loudcloud, Ning, and a16z (parents worked for Land's End and a seed company, grew up in cornfields of Iowa, attended UIUC).

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by Hydraulix989 on Saturday May 01, 2021 @03:31PM (#27009105)
RISD is a very prestigious art school though?

Also, add Chad Hurley co-founder of YouTube to the list:

(Public school in rural red county Pennsylvania, Indiana University of Pennsylvania for college)

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by nytesky on Saturday May 01, 2021 @05:14PM (#27009885)
$10k on recreational electronics is not something most middle class parents would entertain.
Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by whytai on Saturday May 01, 2021 @01:47PM (#27008237)
Palmer Lucky?
Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by nytesky on Saturday May 01, 2021 @01:59PM (#27008343)
Well, from Wikipedia his dad worked at a car dealership, but they lived quite well, with a stay-at-home mom, sailing lessons, and gobs of money on equipment. That sounds fairly well to do.

"As a child he was homeschooled by his mother, took sailing lessons,[7] and had an intense interest in electronics and engineering.[3][8] He took community college courses at Golden West College and Long Beach City College[5] beginning at the age of 14 or 15, and started attending courses at California State University, Long Beach[1] in 2010.[6] He wrote and served as online editor for the university's student-run newspaper, Daily 49er.[9]

During his childhood and teenage years, Luckey experimented with a variety of complex electronics projects including railguns, Tesla coils, and lasers, with some of these projects resulting in serious injuries.[1] He built a PC gaming "rig" worth tens of thousands of U.S. dollars[8] with an elaborate six-monitor setup.[10] His desire to immerse himself in computer-generated worlds led to an obsession with virtual reality (VR)."

Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by exolymph on Saturday May 01, 2021 @04:02PM (#27009315)
What, middle class normalcy doesn't count, you're specifically looking for destitute children who went on to make millions? Seeking a Horatio Alger story? It's not exactly surprising that grinding poverty doesn't yield a lot of unicorn founders. Not sure why you'd think that was a reasonable expectation or litmus test.
Re:Market is the most important factor in a startup's succes... by whateveracct on Saturday May 01, 2021 @01:36PM (#27008127)
Neither of those existential facts refute the premise necessarily