News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by bmitc on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @10:46PM (#26802378)
It’s not just robocalls, as it’s also spoofing numbers. I have received many phone calls from average joes who said they were returning a call from my number, but I had never called them.

I’d say 95% of the calls I receive are spam. It’s so bad that I rarely even answer my phone anymore, instead letting it go to voicemail if the number is not in my contacts.

Everything in life has turned to spam. My physical mailbox, my email, and my phone is bombarded by spam and there’s practically nothing I can do about it.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by throwaway894345 on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @10:29AM (#26807558)
The more troubling problem to me is that my government (United States) will drag their feet on just about any issue that matters to ordinary people--spam, climate change, overfishing, healthcare, etc--provided at least one corporate lobby of virtually any size at all advocates for the problem. Using this spam case to illustrate, it's taken a decade of multiple daily spam calls to virtually every single American for the government to budge on this issue (and still no solution is even on the table for snail mail spam); how are we ever supposed to tackle issues that only really affect a subset of Americans (e.g., healthcare), or which affect us all but invisibly/intangibly (e.g., overfishing, climate change, etc)?

If I had one policy wish it would be to completely eliminate corporate lobbying. Concerned citizens can lobby individually or in groups, but corporate donations, perks, etc to such people/groups would be tightly regulated with steep fines for trespassers.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by DennisP on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @11:25AM (#26808395)
A friend of mine is working on a book, arguing that the root problem is public votes by members of Congress. Prior to 1970 or so, Congress used secret ballots. You could lobby them but you wouldn't know whether they voted your way. A new law changed that in the name of "transparency" and corporate donations and lobbying took off in a big way after that.

We insist on secret ballots for individual voters so they can't sell their votes, but for our legislators whose individual votes are far more consequential, we've given up on it.

In exchange, we get to see how they voted and "hold them accountable." But we can't do that nearly so effectively as corporate donors. Most of us don't look at voting records at all; our information mostly comes from attack ads taking votes out of context.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by dragonwriter on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @01:50PM (#26810571)
> Prior to 1970 or so, Congress used secret ballots. [...] A new law changed that in the name of "transparency".

No, that’s not true. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have information like this, the breakdown of votes by members on the 1964 civil rights act.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/88-1964/h182

It may be that prior to 1970 or so the number of bills (or the number of bills salient to major donors, or whatever) passed by voice vote rather than recorded vote was higher, that’s a harder claim to assess. But it is certainly not the case that Congressional votes either (1) were ubiversally nonrecorded prior to sometime around 1979, or (2) cannot be by voice vote today.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by DennisP on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @02:10PM (#26810830)
Looks like I overstated it a bit. Here's some detail on the changes made in 1970 and later that decade: https://www.congressionalresearch.org/LRA.html
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by logical_proof on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @12:16PM (#26809180)
This is actually quite a fascinating note. Thank you for sharing. Is there an eta on the book?
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by DennisP on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @12:21PM (#26809247)
I don't think so, but he and his collaborators have a website: https://congressionalresearch.org/
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by jdeibele on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @01:40PM (#26810431)
I hadn't realized that there were secret ballots before.

Recently, the House Republicans publicly voted to back Marjorie Taylor Greene (strong Trump supporter) but also had a secret ballot to back Liz Cheney (Trump critic, voted to impeach, #3 in House Republican hierarchy).

It seemed obvious that if the second vote was public that Liz Cheney probably would have been censured and lost her position.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by AtlasBarfed on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @12:27PM (#26809323)
Even junk mail through the US mail is a travesty.

The US Government acts like your US mail is a sacrosanct communication channel that if they send you something it doesn't get drowned out by junk mail.

Basically, our society says: any communication channel you will have to deal with a 10% to 90% ratio of useful communication vs forced against your consent advertising and fraud, even in _the_ constitutionally mandated/provisioned official government communication channel..

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by lainga on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @11:46AM (#26808694)
>provided at least one corporate lobby of virtually any size at all advocates for the problem.

It's the Golden Liberty of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, except instead of the szlachta, we have corporations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Liberty

It did not work out for the PLC's democracy, which entered a state of perpetual deadlock, and became a cautionary tale taken into account by the framers of the US Constitution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partitions_of_Poland

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by amelius on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @10:53AM (#26807933)
Democracy should be more direct when it can be. A referendum with the question "do you want spam?" would quickly solve the problem.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by mc32 on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @11:32AM (#26808489)
Hmmm. They’ll redefine it like when someone in the admin said the old definition of infrastructure needs to be redefined in order to accommodate their goals.

Likewise they would redefine what spam is if there were a referendum.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by cma on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @11:13AM (#26808244)
Verizon lobbied against govt stopping spam calls because they sold an anti spam service at high profit margin.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by suifbwish on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @11:56AM (#26808854)
Pretty simple. Create an expensive corporate lobbying tax that pays for the people’s lobby
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by throwaway894345 on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @12:22PM (#26809261)
What is "the people's lobby" and how is it governed such that it doesn't become a target for corruption? Who controls it?
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by suifbwish on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @03:16PM (#26811745)
How can you expect us to not create one when corporations are constantly trying to screw us? How do you mean keeping it from becoming corrupt? Are you suggesting that not having one is somehow better? Anything the corporations have to pay in order to lobby is a plus. Even if you just stack up the money they have to pay and light it on fire.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by jjav on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @03:21AM (#26804004)
With some numbers it is absolutely unbearable. I have a landline I've had for a very long time and it gets the infamous "extend car warranty" spam call about every other week. On my ~15 year old cell phone# I get that same call also about every other week on average.

But last year I got a new phone with a new number.. wow! It is completely unusable as a phone. Relentless nonstop spam calls every hour as well as continuous SMS spam. I've had to mute everything and send everything straight to spam except for a couple known numbers that I allow through. Nobody except family will ever be able to call me on the new phone because there's no way to enable unknown calls on it without having it ring nonstop.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by saalweachter on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @07:58AM (#26805840)
Personally I am most offended by the calls offering website and SEO services for the domain I purchased a decade ago without masking the registration, because I've professionally worked on (a) making a website, (b) search ranking and (c) SEO.

It's the one call that makes me want to shout, "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?", but since there is no reason anyone would know who I am, I'd just feel silly, and I'm not the sort of person who shouts into telephones anyway.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by MivLives on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @09:28AM (#26806767)
This is terrible especially when you're applying for jobs. All calls from unknown numbers have to be answered because you never know who's calling you back.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by jjav on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:18AM (#26817562)
Agreed. While talking to companies about a new role last year, I'd only unblock the phone at the specific time I was expecting a call.

I did miss a few calls when recruiters called me without scheduling it first. I made it clear they needed to email me first with a call time, or I wouldn't be reachable. Sad, but that's how terrible the spam problem is on phones these days.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by crazygringo on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @10:52AM (#26807911)
Fortunately people calling from companies almost always leave a voice mail, while robocalls almost never do.

Blocking rings doesn't block voice mails, right?

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by issamehh on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @11:40AM (#26808619)
I almost always get voicemails from the robots. Often enough they don't actually say anything but they stay on the line long enough for it to happen. I just get an empty voicemail with static. Fills up my voicemail too so I have to go clear it
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by space_ghost on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @10:29AM (#26807561)
Every other week? I get "extended warranty" spam calls a dozen times a day on average. Like many commenters here I don't answer my phone unless I know the number.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by jjav on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:20AM (#26817584)
Every other week on the old phone numbers. On the new phone# it is relentless all day, I stopped tracking and just block everything except known family numbers.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by RcouF1uZ4gsC on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @11:47PM (#26802736)
I agree with most of what you say, except for email.

Because of such things like DKIM, I really don't have an email spam problem, or if I do, it is because I signed up for it myself.

Because there is a record of who is transmitting the message, hosts and ISP's that transmit spam get punished by having their emails ignored. It is thus in their best interest to make sure they behave well, and deal quickly with any complaints.

The big difference in phone spam is lack of accountability. I believe if you fix that, the problem can be solved pretty quickly

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by stjohnswarts on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @02:31AM (#26803659)
I'm amazed at google's spam filters. They catch like 99% of the spam from an email I've probably had for 12 years or so. Every now and then something slips through but it's pretty good. When I look at the spam folder I see I probably get 20:1 spam:legit email.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by jjav on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @03:09AM (#26803923)
And gmail spam filters are very bad, in comparison. My own email server gets way less spam than my gmail account, and never any false positives, which are a huge problem on gmail.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by eythian on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @09:21AM (#26806684)
On my own mailserver with spamassassin, I had my very first false positive in years just yesterday. It seemed that however the organisation emailing me does it, they're using mail hosts on blocklists.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by flyinghamster on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @08:16AM (#26806039)
> Because of such things like DKIM, I really don't have an email spam problem, or if I do, it is because I signed up for it myself.

Running home and work mail servers, I would disagree. If I let my shields down, I get kajillions of spam emails from snowshoe [0] spam operators (assuming it's not all the same operation!), coming from hundreds of IP addresses in dozens of /24s, all with random word salad domain names, valid DKIM, and valid DMARC, with domain registrations that lead nowhere. Blocking whole /24s and certain egregious TLDs is the only way to stem the tide. As long as there are ISPs, colo/cloud providers, and registrars who are willing to pocket the cash and look the other way, nothing's going to improve.

[0] https://www.spamhaus.org/faq/section/Glossary#233

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by jjav on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @03:08AM (#26803910)
Yes! It is interesting, and quite a twist, that spam in email is by far the least of spam problems these days. I get hardly any spam ever on email anymore (on my own email server). Was going to say once a month but no, it's way less than that.

And yet, I'm getting a constant barrage of spam over SMS and voicemail, there's no stopping that.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by MiddleEndian on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @11:20PM (#26802572)
>instead letting it go to voicemail if the number is not in my contacts

At some point I stopped checking my voicemail and it seems to have broken. I am better off for it, because now I no longer am notified about new voicemails.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by pkaye on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @12:18AM (#26802887)
I sucks even worse for those of us on organ transplant lists. We don't know if the random number that calls us is the call we are expecting. Though mostly I just answer the call and don't say anything because most recorded scripts don't start unless you say something first.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by MiddleEndian on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @12:25AM (#26802932)
Sorry to hear that. I'm sure this adds another pointless layer of exhaustion to your life.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by ddingus on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @03:04AM (#26803891)
I quit voice mail. It is absolutely horrible.

Maybe it does not have to be. Someone should take a swing at that.

The message they get is "you have reached [name] phone, please use SMS or email. This message box is not monitored."

Best thing I have done.

Not everyone can. I wish it were otherwise.

I do answer most calls, and all calls when I am waiting on something critical.

Robocalls got bad this year.

Sadly, they are all recordings. I used to have great fun with the live ones!

You can see that scene in "Boiler Room" where the guy gets a call from someone pitching a local paper to get a good idea of the fun.

I used to pick a rando goal based on my first impression. These ranged from a friendly exchange, pep talk, stall or troll, up through encouraging them to quit and walk out while I keep the line hot... (That guy from Vonage who I had on the ropes? Sorry in hindsight man. I really, really did want to just cancel, and... well, you were the lucky draw that day. Nothing personal.)

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by katbyte on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @03:05AM (#26803898)
My iPhones started transcribing voicemails at some point? Best feature
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by GoblinSlayer on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @04:51AM (#26804560)
Spam calls were very active at the start of this year, but I don't answer calls and spammers fairly quickly gave up.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by Keverw on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @06:42AM (#26805257)
I stopped getting voicemails too. Someone told me it said my voicemail box was full. No notifications to me. So I was unaware unless someone told me or I call my own number. Using visual voicemail on a iPhone with prepaid service.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by lumost on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @12:15AM (#26802870)
my text messages recently surpassed 5 spam messages per day. In the not too distant future my phone will cease to serve any useful function related to being a "phone".
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by dylan604 on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @12:40AM (#26803004)
my phone did that when the phone became just an app on a device in my pocket. the only reason i have a phone number is you can't get a cell signal to a phone like device without one.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by skinnymuch on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @09:00AM (#26806446)
I haven’t gotten spam sfuff on tablet SIM card numbers. Not sure if calls even work on those. You could try that. Don’t need to have the sim in a tablet of course.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by dylan604 on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @10:42AM (#26807740)
hmmmmm, now that is interesting. However, my luck, I'd get flagged as not abiding by some agreed to, by use, contract/ToS for using a tablet SIM in a non-tablet device as defined by some lawyer to avoid this very thing.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by skinnymuch on Thursday April 15, 2021 @04:23AM (#26817610)
Yeah it’s not supposed to be allowed. I’ve been told by a T-Mobile employee on Reddit and discord (big community for T-Mobile lol) that they aren’t going to do anything usually.

My cousin in HS runs her family’s tablet SIM card in an old iPhone and runs ads to make a dollar a day. They end up using close to 100 GB a month.

The other carriers could be stricter.

Maybe something to check up on a bit. But not a big deal regardlsss hah.

I get you about the bad luck

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by galangalalgol on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @12:10AM (#26802842)
I don't have this problem on my personal phone, but my work phone the voicemail is garbage and so are my text messages. I just look at exchange and skype, ignoring the rest. My personal phone shows as a landline if you look it up, maybe that is why?
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by flyinghamster on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @08:04AM (#26805902)
Another approach if you're getting a new phone/number is to just not set up voicemail in the first place. Then the spammers' calls go nowhere.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by killtimeatwork on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @08:07AM (#26805930)
My Polish cell provider has an option for disabling voicemails altogether, is that not the case in the US?
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by nezgar on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @07:57PM (#26814632)
Most people don't know you can just dial ##004# to remove all conditional call forwards that normally default to voicemail. Or if the network doesn't unset it, you can set it to a deadend like * 004 *0000000000# - or some other fun automated line...
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by zrobotics on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @09:50AM (#26807034)
For Verizon at least, it is an option, but stupidly it is a paid option. I had checked 2 years ago and they wanted ~$3/month for the privilege of not providing voicemail.

Turns out it was easier to borrow a friend's phone and leave myself a bunch of voicemail to fill up the storage.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by sdenton4 on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @05:18AM (#26804718)
My voice mail message just says that no voicemail will be listened or responded to.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by devchix on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @10:57AM (#26808013)
Even your email? I feel like in this one domain, we have pretty much won the war against spam. Gmail does a great job of spam filtering, and I expend some effort to guard my email address against 1) other people's mistakes, and 2) real spam. Wrong/spammy things that come to me get an unsubscribe or a Gmail filter, or right into the spam bucket. Have you looked inside your spam folder lately? My God!! The only thing people want to sell is money and sex.

I'm annoyed by McDonald's France, someone who presumably lives in France made a mistake and subscribed my email to their list, and when I tried unsubscribing using their link, I get a "you're not in our geographical service area" nonsense, so I can't unsubscribe truly. Right into the trash filter they go. On my shitlist are all companies that allow subscription or signup w/o an email verification.

My phone is on answer-only-if-known. It makes me hard to find, true, but I like it that way. If someone really needs to find me, they will. Dentist, contractors, recruiters, applies to all.

My mailbox is next to the paper recycling bin. Garbage gets sorted in there immediately. It hurts me to see resources get wasted this way, and I wish the USPS would raise the price for this garbage. I've read somewhere that first class mail subsidizes junk mail, I don't know if that's true. I'm all for the USPS making tons of money off commercial mailers. Do you ever see junk delivered by UPS/FedEx? Even one bulky envelope? Never!

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by psychlops on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @11:31AM (#26808472)
I see Gmail as one part of Google. It's hides the ads from one part and displays them elsewhere. I minimize my contribution to the whole process whenever possible. My spamassassin filter doesn't have a junk mail folder, it all goes to /dev/null.

The USPS is the source of your snail mail spam, not the solution.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by enominezerum on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @10:08AM (#26807257)
protip is to get an area code far away from where you live. If you get a call from that area code, chances are you can ignore it. If it is serious enough, they will leave a message.

Butm regarding spam, yea, it is pretty bad. My HOA piles on by sending letter about "canning spam" with links to spam removal sites and such that I just trash because I am not trying to fight that war.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by briffle on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @10:10AM (#26807288)
I used to live in another state, just over a line for a different area code then where my work and friend were. I know nobody in the 920 area code, but I get about 4-5 calls a day from random numbers in that area code. Makes filtering much easier. Plus the Pixel's automatic screening of suspicious numbers is pretty awesome.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by cableclasper on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @11:35PM (#26802664)
> Everything in life has turned to spam.

Why do we do this to ourselves?

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by pjc50 on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @01:57AM (#26803439)
Not "we", a fairly small number of completely anti social people who are happy to destroy a resource for others if they can make money.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by Nextgrid on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @02:08AM (#26803502)
I disagree, it's indeed "we" as in a big chunk of this community.

"We" just call it differently like "growth hacking" or "marketing" or "engaging" people to legitimize it.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by stjohnswarts on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @02:29AM (#26803639)
Not really, I guarantee if they actually tracked down these scheisters and got the top 100 call volume would go down 95%.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by murph-almighty on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @09:55AM (#26807108)
It's even easier, really, just release their real phone number.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by Nasrudith on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @09:02AM (#26806472)
There is always a small minority of those whiners complaining that Google is too powerful and destroying their business when if their emails were actually desired they would be contacted back.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by echelon on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @11:39PM (#26802682)
Because we don't punish the spammers. And by spammers, I mean the big "nice" players too, like Google and Facebook.

We tolerate them, and every year they grow a little more evil and audacious.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by gogopuppygogo on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @01:52AM (#26803406)
Google and Facebook are surveillance capitalists but they don’t spam me...
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by zo1 on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @03:33AM (#26804092)
I think we need to start considering ads as spam. It's just the medium is different.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by Nasrudith on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @09:00AM (#26806441)
No that is you relabeling things you don't like. Just because publishers call unauthorized reproduction and distribution piracy doesn't mean you can just start referring to added arbitrary subfees to bills child molestation.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by echelon on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @02:03AM (#26803469)
AMP links, search results with ads at higher placement, reordered news feeds to drive engagement of viral content, streamlined interfaces (goodbye URL) that belie a sinister purpose...

Your filter is constantly being spammed.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by stjohnswarts on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @02:29AM (#26803645)
Not mine, I use duckduckgo. Might be slightly inferior results to google but it works 95% of the time for what I'm looking for
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by InitialLastName on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @12:09PM (#26809070)
All ddg ever gets me are hyper-SEO'ed content farms.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by robcohen on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @08:35AM (#26806193)
We did this to ourselves by not making our systems Sybil resistant or DoS resistant. Bitcoin solves this problem by requiring a fee to submit a transaction to the ledger (Denial of Service). lightning does this by requiring you to select who you network with (sybil). Solution is for any modality is to restrict to known good addresses, and for anyone else charge a substantial fee.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by katbyte on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @03:05AM (#26803893)
This baffles me as a Canadian, I get maybe 1 spam call a month, no flyers, pihole blocks most ads, and gmail seems to filter out most email I don’t want to see.

How come robocalls and junk mail are so much worse for you?

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by Frost1x on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @07:28AM (#26805574)
From what I've read about the research here, there is something around 1% of the population that regularly answers and interacts with spam calls. Obviously, there's a lower rate for which portion of those follow through and result in a transfer of money. Apparently, the cost of robocalling is less that that fraction of 1% penetration rate. Since almost every aspect of America is about money anymore, that's why we have so much robo call spam: there's enough money to be made doing it by those who do it that it's economically viable for them... so they do it, everything else be damned.

Note, this was about 6 years ago. I don't know if the current market is the same.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by sumtechguy on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @11:16AM (#26808294)
Watch a few Jim Browning vids on YT or some of the other scammbaiter calls and you will understand better. People are mailing these guys 20k in cash in fedex boxes. Then mules here in the US pick it up at an airbnb/hotel/whatever (they hang around and wait for the truck to show up and claim it), take it home take a small cut and wire the rest along up the chain. You get a couple of those and it pays the whole call center for a few months... They estimate the straight out scams are around 20 billion a year. The quasi 'legal' 'cold call' stuff is probably much higher.

They are targeting older people who maybe let their spouse take everything and that spouse is dead.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by refurb on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @03:08AM (#26803912)
Really? I gave family in Canada and they get a ton of random spam calls on their phone and a ton of spam email. I'll give you the lack of flyers though.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by miohtama on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @10:24AM (#26807487)
Why does this problem manifests in the US only? The rest of the world is close to zero spam calls and texts.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by frosted-flakes on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @10:46AM (#26807792)
Large, mostly homogeneous population that speaks a single language.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by psychlops on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @11:33AM (#26808502)
That hasn't stopped my weekly robocall in chinese.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by frosted-flakes on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @11:50AM (#26808762)
It still applies. Those are robo-calls, which means they reach a large number of people. Similar to the Nigerian Prince email scams, the scammers are depending on most people dismissing them as scams because the scammers don't want to waste their time with people who they have no chance of extracting money from. In this case, if you speak Chinese and you reply, the scammers have a high chance of scamming money from you—you're probably a new immigrant, either elderly or an exchange student, and unfamiliar with local laws and the English language. The same scam would never work in China.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by flyinghamster on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @07:59AM (#26805855)
> I have received many phone calls from average joes who said they were returning a call from my number, but I had never called them.

I've run into that, and don't get me started about phone companies being unwilling to insure Caller ID is accurate, even when they charge you for it. I'm looking at you, AT&T. The VoIP service I ported my landline out to costs less per month than what AT&T wanted just for Caller ID.

> Everything in life has turned to spam. My physical mailbox, my email, and my phone is bombarded by spam and there’s practically nothing I can do about it.

Also add your cell phone (if you run Android) and your desktop OS (if you run Windows 10).

I host my own email, and block a number of TLDs on sight simply because they've been nothing but spam cannons.

More and more, I find myself forgoing consumer tech products in general, or looking before I leap. Consumer routers suck, consumer NASes suck [0], I sure as hell don't want my heating system connected to the network in any way, nor my car. Smart lighting? Only if it doesn't depend on someone else's computer to function (so, IKEA for me, and even there I'm considering firewalling it so it doesn't auto-update).

[0] Cross-thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26800062

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by hansvm on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @12:40AM (#26803002)
> My physical mailbox

Definitely consider USPS form 1500 if you have any repeat offenders [0]. If it's possible to interpret the spam as trying to sell you something then courts have broadly upheld your right to personally decide what kinds of content are excessively offensive without any additional oversight. Credit card offer? Discount to buy a used car? Nah, it's sexually explicit advertising that won't make it into your mailbox again without a hefty windfall.

Also, credit offers lately have been including fine print specifying how to opt out from all of them (the culprit there is credit rating agencies selling your data). That might be CA specific? Anywho, if you jump through a few hoops you can opt out from that particular source of spam for life.

> my email

If you don't need to receive inbound connections from unknown sources (e.g., recruiters) then switch your email to whitelist mode and just allow your contacts. Otherwise, at least create a few accounts to compartmentalize that part of your life. Logins and promotions go into a bucket you never read unless you're expecting an auth code or something, and you can keep your personal email filtered to a whitelist. Depending on your skillset this can be much easier to manage and customize if you host it yourself.

> my phone

I have no practical advice here; nothing I've tried yet has an appropriate balance of usability and effectiveness. Whitelist solutions aren't as great because it's uncommon for one phone to support multiple numbers simultaneously, and voip solutions can have prohibitive drawbacks depending on your use habits.

As a partial solution, Google's dialer (disclosure, noogler, but I liked this product before starting too) is decent at detecting spam if you're using a new enough version of Android that you can install it. It still clutters up your call history till you manually mark calls as spam, but in the moment if you're expecting a new number to call you can have high confidence that if Google hasn't marked it as likely spam that it's probably the call you're expecting.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibitory_Order

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by raverbashing on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @02:05AM (#26803481)
USPS should make bank by raise the price for marketing mail, it seems disproportionately cheap (p. 18 here https://pe.usps.com/cpim/ftp/manuals/dmm300/Notice123.pdf )
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by bshep on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @08:45AM (#26806285)
For my phone Robokiller works well, spammers have pretty much given up on me. Used to get 1-2 calls/week, now i get maybe 1 a month or less.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by bkandel on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @10:56AM (#26807986)
FWIW I get almost no spam on my email at all these days. I use disposable addresses (via Yahoo) for all stores and aggressively filter emails from listservs and stores, but after that I get next to no spam. What spam I do get is picked up nearly perfectly by Gmail's spam filter. Agreed about phone spam though, it's pretty terrible.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by hooande on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @10:50AM (#26807879)
the underlying problem is that spam of any format is very cheap. if just 1% of people respond, it pays for sending out all of the robocalls/texts/emails. it's very difficult to legislate against economics like that

what we need are better spam filters for calls, texts and physical mail. allow people to pay to blacklist numbers that have a high probability of being spam. I'd imagine that "real" numbers get an average level of incoming calls, messages and push notifications that a spam number wouldn't

it might also make sense to allow private or government white listing. ie, prove that your phone number belongs to a "real" person potentially by paying a one time application fee. with enough adoption, that could change the spam economic equation

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by DennisP on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @10:49AM (#26807861)
What's a bit amazing about physical mail spam is that the post office gives it a discount.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by Black101 on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @04:44AM (#26804508)
> It’s not just robocalls, as it’s also spoofing numbers.

I get a phone number that is outside of my area code so if I get a phone call from that area code, I know 99.999% that it is spam (and probably spoofed).

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by pavel_lishin on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @11:19PM (#26802567)
Robocallers routinely spoof numbers.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by dylan604 on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @12:41AM (#26803010)
It's very meta when the caller ID shows you calling yourself
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by stjohnswarts on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @02:31AM (#26803664)
I would at least get a giggle out of that
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by dylan604 on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @10:48AM (#26807838)
I had to grab a screen shot of it when it happened to me. Of course, that screen shot is only meaningful to me, as it just looks like a regular screen shot of an incoming call to anyone else.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by zo1 on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @02:27AM (#26803633)
Don't forget web ads - I would classify them in the same set as the examples you pointed to. They basically "blast" content at you to convince you of something.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by Causality1 on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @11:30PM (#26802637)
Frankly I'm amazed that spam doesn't fall under harassment laws.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by orev on Tuesday April 13, 2021 @11:36PM (#26802668)
There are already laws to stop this, like the do not call registry. But the scammers don’t care about the laws.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by dylan604 on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @12:42AM (#26803017)
Toothless, unenforceable laws are not worth the paper they aren't written on. They are primarily so the politicians writing/voting for them can pat themselves on the back as they tell their sheeple that they have done something.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by lolthishuman on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @12:19AM (#26802898)
I don’t think I’ve picked up a phone call in 2 years. Text me or email me no exceptions. So much spam I see increased on voicemails the past year. Clearly all scam.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by knodi123 on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @02:08AM (#26803500)
I guess you don't schedule a lot of medical appointments or work with contractors.

I wish I could block all unknown numbers, but I'll miss the rescheduling call from the roofer who had to borrow his wife's cell because his fell out of his pocket, or I'll miss the "please confirm you're coming to your appointment tomorrow" and now I've lost a doctor's appointment I scheduled weeks in advance, etc.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by jjeaff on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @05:16AM (#26804700)
The solution to this is to get a phone number from an area code that you don't live in.

Almost all spam calls now spoof the number to give it the same area code as your phone.

So I know any call coming from a local area code is probably legit. Most calls coming from the same area code as my number or from a random area code or even 800 number is usually spam.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by jasode on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @07:10AM (#26805464)
>The solution to this is to get a phone number from an area code that you don't live in.

Getting a new number is not a realistic "solution" for many people because they've had their old cellphone # for decades and it's already deeply entrenched with all their relatives, friends, doctors' emergency contact numbers, airlines notifications, bank fraud alerts vis SMS, etc, etc.

E.g. Most of my friends & family have had the same wireless phone numbers for more than 20 years which they've deliberately kept even when changing carriers.

People still want to keep their familiar number; they just want the spam robocalls to stop. Yes, buying a new area code # (which btw costs ~$40 admin charge with AT&T) ... and then expending a lot of effort to "propagate" the new number to all your contacts and website profiles is not impossible but it's a burden many don't want to tackle.

Some celebrities manage spam by always having at least 2 different cell phones. So a high-profile Hollywood actor would have:

(1) personal phone for spouse & kids & the agent that brings in the money. This number is a closely guarded secret and never shared with anyone or websites' account profiles. This phone's ringer can be set to "silence unknown callers not in the contact list".

(2) separate "burner" phone for everybody else.

The (2) business phone # is changed out monthly because it inevitably leaks out with all the people that have it. But (1) personal phone is only changed if it was leaked by a insider employee at AT&T or TMobile. But again, it's another unrealistic "solution" for most because regular people don't want to buy and carry around 2 separate phones. Yes, some phones can use dual SIMs but only the expensive models ... and it also requires paying extra for 2 numbers on the monthly bill.

Hopefully, an eventual solution that combines:

- more effective FCC crackdowns and penalties

- SHAKEN/STIR anti-spoofing,

- intelligent spam filters at the wireless carrier level,

- better call management tools in iOS/Android

... would be a more sane approach than buying new phone numbers to escape the spam.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by Izkata on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @10:17AM (#26807372)
This year so far, I've had 27 spam calls, of which:

* Only 7 were from my phone's area code

* 2 were from where I live now

* The other 18 were from all over the country

So.. you're lucky if your spam is so consistent. It's far from a guarantee.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by jjeaff on Sunday April 18, 2021 @05:15PM (#26856436)
So you really only would have gotten 2 spam calls had you used my method to ignore. Unless you regularly get important calls from numbers you don't know in other locales, I don't. But they can leave a message if they do.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by bananabreakfast on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @11:04AM (#26808116)
Ah, but that's the value of the strategy!

Your roofer or doctor or whoever should have only a local area code. So out of those 27 spam calls, you only need to answer the 2 that came in from where you live now.

That's a 90%+ reduction! Not a bad strategy.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by vijayr02 on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @11:26AM (#26808421)
Sorry, pedant at work...

Presumably the 18 random area calls would have been ignored in any case.

So the real reduction is 7/9, which is is a 77% reduction. Not bad, but not 90%+.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by vinay427 on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @06:01AM (#26804959)
Also, this probably goes without saying but if you choose this route, find an area code in which you likely don't know anyone. I have an area code from a state in which I previously lived so I still don't know whether it's a spam call or an old contact.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by sumtechguy on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @10:21AM (#26807443)
I accidently did this! I moved away from an area and everyone I know basically did the same thing. So pretty much if it is that area code almost every time it is some spam call. I have been playing the 'clueless old guy' on some of them. It is kind of fun if you are bored. Most of them are left unanswered. Last year a new type showed up, VC guys trying to buy my house (usually well below market rate).
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by Maxburn on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @07:40AM (#26805680)
This worked pretty well for me, probably because I use google voice for my primary number. My actual cell number is in another state far away and anything coming in with that number I just don't answer.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by thechao on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @08:09AM (#26805959)
I do; I politely tell them the situation (I get a lot of spam calls) and they need to call me from a predetermined phone number or leave a voicemail.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by TylerE on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @02:19AM (#26803573)
It’s changing.

Even the fairly small doctors office I use locally now texts instead of calling.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by GoblinSlayer on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @04:41AM (#26804494)
Just formalize communication procedure with them.
Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by gogopuppygogo on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @01:51AM (#26803396)
You aren’t an elderly person who isn’t technical.

I watch the scam baiters on YouTube and on occasion you hear a victim crying while the perps laugh.

Truly bad people to be executing scams against some of the most vulnerable.

Re:FCC finally starts tackling America's robocall scourge by ipython on Wednesday April 14, 2021 @01:01PM (#26809846)
This is exactly the point. I happen to have a landline which somehow is associated with a demographic profile of a senior citizen. I’ve had this number for over a decade now. The number of scam calls targeting seniors is staggering.

Of the 200-300 spam robocalls I receive every month, about 50-80 are blocked by my cell phone (the landline rings to my cell) and I also subscribe to nomorobo on the landline, which I assume blocks even more. Still, that’s some 200 calls that make it through even with two levels of blocking.

The scams are terrifying- serious sounding people on the line saying your social security number will be cancelled and you will be arrested unless you speak immediately to an officer; Medicare advantage scams; IRS and treasury scammers... and since my personal info is published by the phone company, many times the scammers have all my personal information as “proof”! It’s a sickening information asymmetry that can totally fool an unsuspecting older person who doesn’t entirely understand what’s going on.

If you’re curious about what these scams look like and how vigilantes actively work to combat them, I’d recommend two videos to start: Jim browning at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvjjpzyiig4 and mark rober at https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VrKW58MS12g.