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Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by bob1029 on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @09:53PM (#26174908)
This is 90c/KWh. Arguably very expensive rate for electricity. Not sure if related to the Texas/ERCOT grid situation, as the DC tie-ins are not that substantial.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by sremani on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @10:00PM (#26174992)
Texas banned out of state sale of NG, that will have consequence but not sure that is the reason.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by reducesuffering on Thursday February 18, 2021 @01:12AM (#26176542)
For such a historically red state, that doesn't appear very laissez-faire.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by addicted on Thursday February 18, 2021 @04:16AM (#26177676)
Red states in the US don’t follow laissez-Faire economics. They follow race to the bottom and beggar thy neighbor economics.

Essentially, they are willing to burn all sorts of rules and regulations in order to beat a neighboring state to attract businesses and individuals. They then make up for this loss by drawing federal dollars that are usually paid for by people and companies in those same states they drew people and businesses away from.

But they are absolutely willing to regulate where it helps them individually even if it is against purported principles.

And then, of course, there’s the annual hypocrisy where red state senators will decry any funding towards blue states (for example, emergency funding to California for fire disasters) but jump right into demanding as much money as they can get when there are disasters in their states.

Texas’s energy supply bounties hides this there but it’s evident all over the remaining red states.

Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by tt433 on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @10:35PM (#26175342)
How is it legal for them to regulate interstate commerce?
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by wahern on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @10:50PM (#26175489)
Probably not. But especially in emergencies it's often better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission. (Also, domestic in-state political signaling.)

Anyhow, the legal effect may be irrelevant if the gas producers wouldn't bother trying to export. I would imagine that producers are having trouble just delivering on their long-term, fixed-price contracts in Texas. The short-term prices might be so jacked up precisely because there's little to no surplus to export, period.

Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by selimthegrim on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @10:44PM (#26175439)
Texas Railroad Commission has been around since before relevant federal statutes were passed
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by stefan_ on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @09:56PM (#26174945)
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by pkaye on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @09:54PM (#26174924)
If they are not connected, what is driving up the cost?
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by cperciva on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @09:57PM (#26174952)
Texas isn't the only place with cold weather right now. Even if other grids haven't collapsed, they're surely under higher strain than normal.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by geerlingguy on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @10:18PM (#26175167)
Ameren (electric company serving parts of MO and IL) has requested customers cut back on power consumption if at all possible.

When there's a sustained negative-degree-weather event for over a week, many people start plugging in extra space heaters or run their electric central heater longer, which places a huge amount of strain on the grid.

Luckily there are many in the midwest who use gas for heating, since it's way more efficient in the long winter months.

There are other factors too, like some plants not being maintained to a level where they can operate at full capacity in freezing weather for weeks at a time (many can, but some are not maintained to that standard—see TX), so those plants can't just pop online like they normally would during the summer.

Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by hnburnsy on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @11:46PM (#26175924)
Southwest Gas asked their Arizona natural gas customers to cut back as the pipeline through Arizona feeds Texas.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by rblatz on Thursday February 18, 2021 @12:57AM (#26176463)
Did they? I have two properties serviced by them and didn’t get any notification.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by hnburnsy on Thursday February 18, 2021 @03:48AM (#26177478)
>Southwest Gas is asking customers to conserve resources as states contend with cold weather.

According to the utility, shortages are not anticipated in Arizona, but conservation will help maintain the interstate pipeline system.

https://www.kgun9.com/news/local-news/southwest-gas-asks-cus...

Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by Scoundreller on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @11:55PM (#26176015)
Ontario Canada reporting. CAD$85/mwh (or ~US$65). We have several gw available on standby, and pretty much even on exports/imports. And we do export to USA as needed to/through Michigan/NY.

Parents got ~10" of snow yesterday night. But it's just business as usual.

https://www.ieso.ca/en/Power-Data

Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by etimberg on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @10:00PM (#26174990)
Could be a number of factors. Prices are generally composed of generation, loss, and congestion terms. The generation term is driven by the marginal cost of energy (i.e. what's the cheapest generator that still has capacity). The losses term is fairly self explanatory. The congestion term factors in the thermal ratings on equipment based on what can be delivered to a location.

Someone else speculated that this is due to a rise in Natural Gas costs. This would make some sense given that the rise is uniform across the region.

Disclaimer: I work in the energy space. I know nothing about what is happening here and these are personal opinions.

Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by denkmoon on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @09:56PM (#26174941)
Demand, Texas isn't the only location experiencing severe cold weather that it isn't prepared for.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by sumoboy on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @11:37PM (#26175857)
This will all repeat itself during the summer for excessive heat.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by rovr138 on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @10:32PM (#26175301)
capacity and demand.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by ed25519FUUU on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @10:00PM (#26175002)
In California it’s about 30 to 40 cents kWh during normal times.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by pixelpoet on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @10:16PM (#26175139)
Average in Germany is 30 euro cents per kWh in 2019 apparently; I'm at 31c with this Energiewende Ökostrom which I sure hope is going to help transition to sustainability: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energiewende
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by dragonwriter on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @10:52PM (#26175515)
> In California it’s about 30 to 40 cents kWh during normal times.

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/

16.89 ¢/kW in 2019. Where did you get 30-40 ¢/kW?

Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by mayli on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @11:22PM (#26175754)
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by function_seven on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @11:34PM (#26175839)
Yikes. I’m in California but pay 17¢/kWh including the fixed monthly costs. (My tiers are 10.5¢, 16.8¢, and 19.1¢)

I love my municipal utility.

Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by scruple on Thursday February 18, 2021 @12:36AM (#26176324)
On SCE, in Orange County, I'm currently paying $0.22, $0.28, and $0.35.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by jahmed on Thursday February 18, 2021 @12:00AM (#26176049)
I was curious and I pay 11¢ in Colorado.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by jjav on Thursday February 18, 2021 @02:58AM (#26177213)
I don't know where that website is getting its info but it is way off from reality.

The cheapest possible PG&E (Silicon Valley) rate is off-peak (after midnight) winter rate. Looking at my January bill here right in front of me, that rate is $0.16675 for transmission + $0.05525 for generation. So that's 22.2c/kWh. That's the cheapest it ever gets.

The most expensive tier is peak (afternoon to midnight) in the summer, 62c/kWh.

Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by ihattendorf on Thursday February 18, 2021 @10:59AM (#26181385)
Well, PG&E isn't the only electricity provider in California. Doesn't mean the numbers are correct, but pointing out rates in Silicon Valley doesn't mean the numbers are wrong.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by Lammy on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @10:27PM (#26175245)
It didn't have to be this way :( https://www.energy-net.org/01NUKE/CALIF.HTM

"Northern California is the home of the first successful opposition to the promotion and development of commercial nuclear reactors in the U.S. In the 1950's northern and central California's privately owned utility company, PG&E, was planning to be one of the giants in the new field of nuclear energy."

Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by wahern on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @11:16PM (#26175694)
Nevada or even Mexico could play regulatory arbitrage, build nuclear plants in their jurisdictions, and export the electricity to California.

I suppose Mexico might be cheaper as Nevada lacks water, particularly in remote regions where there'd be the least local resistance. Baja California has the Pacific and the Gulf of California; Sonora has the Gulf of California.

California's unique history of opposition to nuclear is unfortunate, but there are larger dynamics that are also suffocating nuclear in California; dynamics that at most are only marginally stronger in California as compared to elsewhere in the United States. Oregon or Washington could also build more nuclear plants. They already export a significant amount of electricity to California, especially to Southern California. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_DC_Intertie) Nuclear is disfavored everywhere, and even where it's allowed and nominally profitable the RoI still sucks, so it doesn't take much friction to shift investment elsewhere. We need change at the national level to make nuclear practical again.

Though, now I'm genuinely curious why Mexico doesn't have more than its current two nuclear plants. PEMEX? (Note: Not that I think that Mexico is some third-world country bereft of regulations and organized opposition. I'm sure many of the reasons are similar as elsewhere. Still, I bet therein lie some interesting and informative stories.)

Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by hnburnsy on Thursday February 18, 2021 @12:04AM (#26176070)
Fun fact, California entities own 27% of Palo Verde Generating Station in Arizona.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by addicted on Thursday February 18, 2021 @04:18AM (#26177694)
Nuclear is more expensive than wind or solar with way higher upfront investment and way higher lead time to start generating money. And in the US, thanks to NIMBY politics, there’s no solution for long term waste disposal either.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by belorn on Thursday February 18, 2021 @05:30AM (#26178199)
nuclear does not need to compete with wind or solar. Build as much wind and solar that is possible, and don't let nuclear investment impact solar or wind investments.

Nuclear compete with energy generated from fossil fuel, either locally or bought from neighbours, and future battery technology. The waste problem of nuclear is a problem, but not as big as the waste problem of fossil fuels.

Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by ed25519FUUU on Thursday February 18, 2021 @10:45AM (#26181154)
California has tons of solar. It has so much solar that it’s paying other people to take energy during the peak of the duck curve.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by hnburnsy on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @11:58PM (#26176034)
Arizona does this (see Palo Verde Generating Station, the largest power plant in the US by generation) and I benefit with $0.05230 per kWh off peak (off peak is 8 pm - 3 pm on weekdays, all day on weekends and 10 holidays).
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by adanto6840 on Thursday February 18, 2021 @12:37AM (#26176330)
That's about the same as the non-summer part of ToU plan in NV -- both peak & off-peak. It's about a cent cheaper off-peak right now.

On the TOU plan in NV, weekdays in June thru Sept, from 1PM to 7PM, it's ~0.45/kWh -- but rest of the time it's under 6c/kWh -- comparable [or less] than your rate.

Hard to believe we haven't figured out efficient, reliable, & redundant long-distance electricity transmission at this point.

I generated almost 100kWh today & have used ~half that; it sure seems like transmission is almost as big of an issue as storage.

Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by Rebelgecko on Thursday February 18, 2021 @01:08AM (#26176523)
The vast majority of nuclear power plants are built next to oceans and large lakes. The one that my sibling commenters mentioned in Arizona is the only exception to that rule in the US.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by imtringued on Thursday February 18, 2021 @03:44AM (#26177454)
Large nuclear power plants have unique cooling needs. You must place them near a big body of water or risk shutting them down because of insufficient cooling if you place then near rivers.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by dragonwriter on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @11:24PM (#26175777)
> > In California it’s about 30 to 40 cents kWh during normal times.

> It didn't have to be this way :(

And, it's not! The claimed price is in the ballpark of double the actual price.

Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by zbrozek on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @11:38PM (#26175864)
Here it is from the horse's mouth: https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHED...

Lowest rate is $0.25/kWh and most usage will land at $0.32/kWh. Or so you'd think reading that PDF.

I divided my total electric bill by my total usage and got $0.44/kWh. There was a lot of usage in tier 2 because I don't live in the cold and dark. I use a computer and refrigerator. The various confusing surcharges and credits make knowing what any given kWh will cost very difficult.

We're getting fleeced.

Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by jjav on Thursday February 18, 2021 @03:07AM (#26177254)
Sorry but you're way off. Please take a look at an actual PG&E bill.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by dragonwriter on Thursday February 18, 2021 @03:43AM (#26177449)
> Sorry but you're way off.

No, the federal Energy Information Agency and Bureau of Labor Statistics are not wrong.

> Please take a look at an actual PG&E bill.

Looking at an actual bill will tell you what you pay, not what is typical in the state. And if it's a PG&E bill, it will tell you a significantly higher number than is paid in non-PG&E areas (which make up a majority of the state, and which include significant territories throughout Northern and Central California, including parts of the Bay Area, as well as pretty much all of Southern California.)

Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by bcrosby95 on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @11:15PM (#26175682)
As others have stated this seems high. I'm in SoCal with SCE and my rates are around 22 cents/kwh for tier 1, 28 cents/kwh for tier 2, and 35 cents/kwh for tier 3. I have a 2k square foot home and a family of 5 and we never hit tier 3.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by jeffbee on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @10:37PM (#26175366)
The average price paid for residential^W power in California last year was 16 cents, not 30, not 40.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by yumraj on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @11:27PM (#26175801)
Not sure where you’re getting 16 cents, the lowest PG&E tier is 24 cents [0]

[0] https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/rate-plans/how-ra...

To add, Santa Clara city is served by Silicon Valley Power which I believe has substantially lower rates than PG&E.. there may be other such local providers..

Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by spear on Thursday February 18, 2021 @12:18AM (#26176196)
Confirmed for Santa Clara -- 11 cents for the first 300 kWh, slightly less for off-peak hours (if you install a Time of Use meter): https://www.siliconvalleypower.com/home/showpublisheddocumen...
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by jeffbee on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @11:45PM (#26175921)
https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/ According to their data the average includes all customers. For residential alone (their table 8) the average was 19.15 cents.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by wumpus on Thursday February 18, 2021 @12:41AM (#26176363)
I'm in Palo Alto and I pay 14 cents. Yes, we also have our own local provider.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by zippergz on Thursday February 18, 2021 @12:05AM (#26176075)
Maybe that is the statewide average, but I've haven't paid anything close to that low in years.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by ed25519FUUU on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @10:40PM (#26175400)
We paid 33 cents / kWh on the bay area last year. Not sure how the rest of CA is doing.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by kelnos on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @10:43PM (#26175425)
> Not sure how the rest of CA is doing.

The parent provided a figure: 16 cents.

Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by gothroach on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @10:50PM (#26175493)
I'm on T3 with an excessive use surcharge, so I'm closer to 45 cents here in the North Bay.
Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by dragonwriter on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @11:04PM (#26175606)
> We paid 33 cents / kWh on the bay area last year. Not sure how the rest of CA is doing.

Forget “the rest of California”, that's extremely high for the Bay Area. Last year, SF Area average retail electricity prices by month ranged between 22.9 ¢/kW and 24.0 ¢/kW.

https://www.bls.gov/regions/west/news-release/averageenergyp...

Re:Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now by zbrozek on Thursday February 18, 2021 @01:52AM (#26176788)
https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHED...

Most of my usage is in tier 2 at $0.31443/kWh. In practice the actual bill comes out to $0.44/kWh because of all the random other complicated cruft.

Check out slide 28: https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/uploadedFiles/CPUCWebsite/Content/Ne...