European in America : "Jesus, everyone here is so fake and annoying."
Classroom teaching is not highly dependent on technology and low-tech solutions are often better.
Your suggested solution asks teachers to give up a day of their time (unpaid?) for what you think is important, without listening to what teachers actually find difficult about their jobs.
Even if what you are saying is right and genuinely helpful, it won't immediately look like a good solution to the teachers or to the administration.
Or something like that anyway; I never really figured out this whole thing in the time I lived there.
Here's a chart to help you get started: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DL8gbEoX0AAcwAq?format=jpg&name=...
Personally I love cutting through bullshit but it it can often land wrong.
This thread is pretty irritating for being kind of clueless to the reality that every culture on earth is going to have trappings like this and the alleged stoicism of Russia and Germany are no exception. (Thinking someone is simple or mentally ill because they smile too much is already such a trapping.)
Don’t ask a question and completely ignore the answer.
Don’t give platitudes when they could spend some effort and saying what a team member did well. It’s the same in dating, don’t tell someone they are beautiful, go the extra mile.
At least I think this is what people mean by “fake” but I’m not sure.
The sort of always smiling, always laughing stereotypical American waiter or something would be perceived as juvenile, fake or not very bright over here.
The dynamic range is higher, versus having to figure out the difference between smiling and mega-ultra-smiling (as in the USA).
As a Latin American, I studied aboard in the US for a year, and I felt Americans were way colder than us.
I wouldn’t say we’re fake about our warmness. But maybe Europeans could associate that with being fake?
Our culture tends to pick and choose from the best of either the American or the European approach. We don't always get it right, and the combination/middle ground isn't necessarily better than either of the alternatives, but I do feel like we have some general insight and sympathy to both the European and the American philosophies.
I've also lived as an ex-pat in Europe for 4 years working closely with both Europeans and AMericans.
In this regard, I think the American approach is superior.
1) Europeans are overly sensitive about "micro-friendliness". I've heard people complain that the cashier at the grocery store asks "How are you doing?". "They don't really care, why do they ask!"
I've had to explain that no, they don't care, but that moment of friendliness is still a pleasant one, and over the course of the day, all those moments add up to a generally positive contribution to one's existence.
Americans do take faux-friendliness over the top (especially if it's only reserved for the local in-group, see: southern "hospitality"), but I think the Europeans need to lighten up a bit.
2) While I don't need my waitresses to be so friendly to the point that they seem like they're flirting with you, the European waitstaff at restaurants are far from neutral, and are actively disinterested in your hospitality experience. This doesn't apply to fancy high-end restaurants, of course. But just a general casual lunch or dinner you're just not going to get the same quality of service as you do in North America.
While I abhor tipping, I can't help but think that it does create some positive incentives in staff here.
That's just circling back to North America and Continental Europe having diametrically opposed notions of what good service means and what social interactions are desirable.
At the risk of sounding like a prick, a good staff member here is someone who makes themselves completely invisible from customers while keeping the shop running smoothly. Having a waiter trying to build a rapport with me because ultimately I have to be the one paying them instead of their boss is infuriating, and the intrusion of a third party into my table-size privacy bubble is extremely unwelcome.
You went out into public to have a meal, why are you expecting privacy? If you wanted privacy, get takeout and eat at home.
Seeking eye contact with the waiter isn’t that inconvenient either...
But for me I have very happy memories of talking with waiters in mom and pop restaurants, at the same time I do feel tipping increases the incentive to talk with customers so... it comes back to honesty, do you really want to talk or does it JUST increase the probability of tipping?
This is more of an expectations thing; certainly in Dutch, asking "how are you doing" is something you do when you ask when you really want to start a conversation, and you expect a somewhat serious reply in return, whereas in some other cultures it essentially just means "hi" with no expectation of a real answer beyond "good" or some such.
When I worked for an Irish company I had some coworkers say "how are ya" when meeting in the hallway or some such; I started replying serious ("yeah, I'm good, last night I [..]") but they didn't really expect an answer so continued walking leaving us both confused; me as they didn't stop, and them as I started a conversation. It led to some awkward-y situations before I figured this out haha
At any rate, I don't think it's "sensitivity", it's just that these words are taken to have a different meaning. These are the kind of subtle things about learning a language; you can know all the words and grammar, but you also need to learn what's meant with them, and that can actually be pretty hard. Translating a simple sentence such as this is easy, but really understanding what's intended (which may differ on the tone of voice, location, context, etc.) is really hard, and even Europeans who speak good English but haven't spent a lot of time in English-speaking countries tend to fail at this (I certainly did) as it's not really something you can learn from communicating in English over text either.
I've also heard Italians, French, and Swiss complain about it.
The issue wasn't the language, it was the faux cheeriness that came with it.
Uggghhhh, I loath being asked that. Firstly, the staff are forced to say it as part of their job and they are checked. It’s inhuman to make someone do that. Also it fucks with my head - now I feel forced to do some interaction to lessen the evil of their work day (it is always shitty jobs) and I find it draining by sympathy. It breaks the humanness of just being polite and thankful to anyone you interact with that is working hard (even if they are tired, emotionally drained, or don’t want to be there).
> especially if it's only reserved for the local in-group, see: southern "hospitality"
Can you explain that?
> tipping, I can't help but think that it does create some positive incentives in staff here.
Tipping is outright disgusting: paying people to be nice just creates inhuman fakeness. The image of some fat leering arsehole, or ugly souled woman, getting their ego stroked by a young wage slave is abhorrent. The worst I ever saw was young American tourists on the coast of Mexico (a small town called San Francisco I think) - the way the tourists treated the staff was wretchedly vile (maybe due to the staff being mostly poor and Mexican?)
Edit: that sounded a bit US bashing, so I will add that I have met many wonderful, kind, interesting and friendly Americans. I have even been treated to Southern Hospitality and it seemed genuine enough to me (even though me and my partner essentially just gate-crashed their party on short notice!). Being white and kiwi might help my impressions though...?!
Edit: in my experience Canadians and New Zealanders have similar outlooks.
> can you explain that?
I think you touched upon it in your last paragraph acknowledging being white and kiwi.
It is such an overwhelming force of human friendliness and welcomeness, that you assume it must be genuine human connection.
Except try being gay, black, or an atheist, and see how quickly all that turns...
As far as the rest of your points, I think you're exaggerating a bit. Most people (at least in north america) don't mind being micro-friendly as part of a service job. Sure, yes, it's "required", but the ratio of monstrous leering arseholes is not high, and while it's tiring to be friendly by the end of a long workday at a grocery store, people don't feel it to be a fundamentally dehumanizing act.
I think the bigger problem with tipping is situations where it allows employers to pay less than minimum wage - that is abhorent. Getting a tip shouldn't be a requirement to get to a living wage. But as an incentive to being a little more engaged with your job? I think it's good.
> Edit: in my experience Canadians and New Zealanders have similar outlooks.
We are alike in many ways. We both live in the shadow of a larger, brasher arrogant power who dismisses us, and people on the other side of the world lump us in together with them.
But no, when it comes to restaurants, service culture, tipping, and micro-friendliness in public Canadians are much closer to Americans than to New Zealanders.
Some of them hate asking you too. Sometimes it's a policy forced on them by management, and they are to be fined if they skipped a customer. Overheard this in the bus, a cashier was complaining to her friend. There were cameras installed at every register specifically for that.
To be honest, the cashiers and waitresses I've talked to in the US delivered a pretty good act, totally believable. When the big chain stores in my country decided to copy the US, the lack of acting skills in our culture was very noticeable.
As a Brit I feel this way, I personally don't ask someone how they're doing unless I'm interested in the answer, but the rhetorical How are you doing? is used plenty in Britain.
How do you do? has fallen out of common usage but traditionally the proper response was How do you do?
Not bashing, let's be clear on that. But this keeps catching me off-guard, every time. Have to work on finally overcoming it. It seems it's an American tradition to say "hi, how are you?" and not just "hello" (namely, it's not a question but a greeting).
I found that it can be useful to consider "Hi, how are you?" as a friendly game of catch. At the basic level you can reply "'Sall right, how _you_ doin'?" You've caught the ball and tossed it back. Even if you are walking in different directions down the hall this will work... or even looking up and saying "hey" is acknowledging the ball in the air. In an "office" this probably would work fine, but I have always been either self-employed or worked in small businesses. So I don't know if this would work on the 24th floor.
In day to day life... I imagine the person at the check out counter has a repetitive job that can be quite dreary if all they are doing is punching buttons all day without any engagement... asking the same questions: "Did you find everything?" "Do you have any coupons?" "How are you doing today?" So when I can I try to catch the ball, paint it a different color and toss it back. It's a two part process How are you doing? #1 catch the ball: "I made it this far, I'm gonna keep going." #2 toss it back: "How are you keeping up?"
You can have dozens of responses for for each part... mix & match... Silliness can get you bonus points. It's just a game. You will discover ways in which a few words can make it so that you're having a bit more fun, the checkout person (or server, or phone support person, or...) can also get a few giggles while grinding through their, perhaps miserable, job... hey, everybody wins.
My brain has these days taught itself to translate that “how are you” == “hello”, so these days I just answer “hey”, which feels weird but a lot of things do in English. Or if I’m not feeling great, I won’t respond at all, because apparently that’s fine too and the person asking isn’t really asking. (This is why this Fake niceness, in itself, can be depressing)
As scripture says, 'Faithful are the wounds of a friend'. Sometimes the best thing we need is a little vinegar that is in our actual/tangible/observable best interest.
This is usually mandated somewhere up the chain. They don't have a choice if they want to keep their jobs.
Of course I appreciate the effort of being "nice" but when you're not doing it out of genuine care for someone I'd much rather just be treated in a neutral way, like you'd treat any human being you encountered that you knew nothing about. I don't much enjoy being treated as an old friend by someone who wouldn't lend me five bucks, and I don't enjoy being asked polite questions that require elaborate answers when you really don't want to listen to the answer and your eyes glaze over within the first seconds.
Adults have left their insecurities behind them and should understand they're not, at least initially, the friend of every human being and shouldn't have a problem with being treated in a professionally reserved way.