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Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by faitswulff on Thursday December 03, 2020 @08:55AM (#25288813)
I had a suspicion upon reading Moorhead's review that he was trying to use familiar enterprise Windows software on the M1 instead of trying to use native apps:

> So far, I have experienced application crashes in Microsoft Edge, Outlook, WinZip and Logitech Camera Control. I got installation errors with Adobe Reader XI, Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, a Samsung SSD backup application, and Xbox 360 Controller for Mac.

What Mac user tries to use Edge and WinZip? A Samsung backup application? Xbox 360? Such a bizarre collection of software that snubs macOS's native browser.

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by shawnz on Thursday December 03, 2020 @08:58AM (#25288843)
Not to judge a book by it's cover, but mind-bogglingly his "preferred browser" for OSX is Edge. https://twitter.com/PatrickMoorhead/status/13296105698261319...
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by faitswulff on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:01AM (#25288862)
I guess my question then is whether he uses macOS (note: it's OS 11 now!) as a daily driver or if he's just transplanting familiar software from his Windows habits in order to test drive the M1?
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by ghaff on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:45AM (#25289295)
It's still apparently macOS. But, yes, they did bump the major version number.)
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by user-the-name on Thursday December 03, 2020 @10:20AM (#25289636)
The "OS X" branding was dropped in 2016. The current update was from "macOS 10.15" to "macOS 11".
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by alwillis on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:15AM (#25288979)
Edge on macOS is a very good browser. Unlike Chrome, it has real privacy features for blocking tracking scripts right out of the box.

The Collections feature is also well done.

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by fastball on Thursday December 03, 2020 @07:18PM (#25297398)
So like Brave but not as good?
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by dustinmoris on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:28AM (#25289111)
> Edge on macOS is a very good browser.

.. if you want your manager to spy on you.

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by gcblkjaidfj on Thursday December 03, 2020 @02:05PM (#25293031)
chrome has enterprise managed mode just the same, with even more capabilities (i.e. spying features to keep your post wording) than the microsoft ones.

MS enterprise mode can only control settings and extensions, google goes several steps further.

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by ceejayoz on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:04AM (#25288885)
Edge had an ARM-compatible version before Chrome did, which may explain it. The Chrome build for Apple Silicon just came out the other day.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by LeoPanthera on Thursday December 03, 2020 @05:50PM (#25296432)
This guy is a tech reporter? But he doesn't know how to take a screenshot.

Says a lot.

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by shawnz on Thursday December 03, 2020 @11:02PM (#25298744)
To be fair, the shortcut on Windows is a lot easier to remember.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by redler on Friday December 04, 2020 @01:20AM (#25299586)
Spotlight search "screenshot" is how I "remember". You get a little widget that offers all the options.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by whatever1 on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:06AM (#25288903)
Edge has the collections feature, that I cannot live without. Great tool for research.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by tracker1 on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:01AM (#25288863)
the chrome based edge is pretty decent... I'm still mostly using Chrome out of habbit, but there are a few things to like about the Chrome based Edge over Chrome.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by ceejayoz on Thursday December 03, 2020 @08:57AM (#25288838)
To be fair, I'm getting absolutely enormous memory leaks in stock Safari on my new M1 MBP after a few hours of use. It doesn't seem to be reclaiming memory when tabs are closed.

https://imgur.com/a/HqxAspK

There are growing pains, and they're not all in third-party apps. (It is hilarious to me, though, that WinZip a) exists for Mac and b) is used by anyone on a Mac.)

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by soapdog on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:05AM (#25288888)
I might be mistaken but, IIRC many browsers will not free memory from closed tabs. They'll keep it and reuse it for new tabs instead of deallocating and reallocating too often as you play with tabs.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by ceejayoz on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:05AM (#25288893)
Yes, but it's not doing that.

Every new tab incurs more RAM usage; it's not reusing. Usage keeps growing and growing until the system gets sluggish and it prompts me to kill Safari.

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by pcr910303 on Thursday December 03, 2020 @11:43AM (#25290837)
If you're using 1Blocker, you might want to turn off the (memory-leaking) 1Blocker Button until an update shows off...

Worked like a charm at least to me :-)

https://twitter.com/kb091412/status/1330470681813934086

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by arn on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:06AM (#25288900)
If you are using an ad block or other extensions, that is likely the cause. I can't find specific reference, but try turning those off.

edit: https://twitter.com/hondanhon/status/1329132372034347009

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by ceejayoz on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:08AM (#25288916)
A browser isn't viable to me without ad blocking and 1Password.

Firefox has issues currently on M1, as well - uBlock Origin won't load, for example. Thankfully, that particular issue is fixable by disabling javascript.options.wasm and javascript.options.wasm_trustedprincipals in about:config as a temporary solution.

I fully expect these to be fixed, but it's clear it's gonna be a few weeks/months before everything runs right. If I were a non-technical user, I'd be returning it for an Intel Macbook.

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by dundarious on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:28AM (#25289113)
Of course, maybe you are experiencing a different issue that also leaks memory, but Dan confirmed 1Password was not causing his problem, just 1Blocker. https://twitter.com/hondanhon/status/1329471604649205760?s=2...

The 1Blocker extension can be disabled as a temporary fix, and crucially, the ad blocking functionality does _not_ have to be disabled.

https://twitter.com/1blockerapp/status/1329744152150626304?s...

In the meantime, disabling the 1Blocker Button extension in Safari > Preferences > Extensions and restarting Safari fixes it. It won't affect how our app blocks intrusive content in Safari since 1Blocker Button only provides quick actions to the main app.

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by ceejayoz on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:28AM (#25289120)
I'm not using 1Blocker, but perhaps AdGuard has the same issue for similar reasons.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by bstar77 on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:21AM (#25289035)
He’s not saying permanently disable Adblock, but rather disable it to see if it’s responsible for the memory leak in question.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by ceejayoz on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:24AM (#25289065)
As far as I can tell, the issue is present without any extensions. I'm not willing to browse unprotected for several hours to 100% confirm, but it still grows with every tab.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by ArchOversight on Thursday December 03, 2020 @02:21PM (#25293300)
Yes, it grows, but slightly. Ever since 1Blocker updated their app to use the older logo rather than the new monochrome logo I am not seeing the disastrous memory growth I was seeing before. After ~5 days of use without restarting Safari it is still hovering at around 800 Mb used, instead of the 10 Gb+ it was using before.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by arn on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:32AM (#25289158)
As others have said, I was simply offering a suggestion to help debug, not passing judgement on adblockers.

I have had Safari open for 23 hours on my M1 MBP, and it is using ~800mb of memory right now. Extensions are the most likely culprit.

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by ceejayoz on Thursday December 03, 2020 @10:10AM (#25289533)
Ultimately, my point is not "I need help fixing this" - I've gotten Firefox working fine with a few about:config tweaks. My point is "non-technical users are going to run into weird issues they can't necessarily fix right now".
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by fastball on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:26PM (#25298228)
HN seems to really dislike Brave, but it is hands down the best browser for people that care about ad-blocking.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by sedgjh23 on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:23AM (#25289056)
It’s strange, I haven’t experienced the memory leaks but now you’ve got me curious.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by tracker1 on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:04AM (#25288883)
Not running mac currently, but one of the things I hated was how the UX was for thinks like keka etc, vs 7-zip/winzip interfaces... they just didn't match how I was used to using the things, also having to extract an entire archive to pluck out the one or two files I was looking for is often a pain.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by JohnBooty on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:12AM (#25288949)
I don't disagree re: the GUIs for Mac compression apps.

Part of the reason for this IMHO is because your typical developer on a Mac has always used the command line tools for that sort of thing. So, Mac developers were never really motivated to build great GUI tools for certain things.

Compared to Windows, where the built in command prompt was lacking for so many years, and as a consequence 7zip/WinZIP/WinRAR gained really robust GUIs.

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by tracker1 on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:15AM (#25288976)
It's ironic that you mention that, as I often used to just defer to the command line as the UX for the gui apps was so bad. I've always been centered around client/server or web app development or the backend and it was never painful enough to make something for myself. (scratch the itch)
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by om2 on Thursday December 03, 2020 @02:46PM (#25293674)
Wow, that’s a lot of memory use. Would you be willing to file a Feedback Assistant report with a sysdiagnose? Would like to see what’s up here. How many tabs is this?
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by ceejayoz on Thursday December 03, 2020 @06:25PM (#25296856)
This is after a couple hours of use. It stays high until quitting - closing all tabs doesn’t budge it.

Happy to file a report. Any special instructions to make sure it gets to you? edit: Filed one; FB8927230.

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by neogodless on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:32AM (#25289154)
To be a "Mac user" you have to give up the software you prefer, and use the software Mac prefers you to use. And you don't get to be unhappy if the software you prefer doesn't run OK? I am so happy to not be a Mac user, even if I'm sad I won't be trying out the great M1 CPU any time soon.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by nickelcitymario on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:44AM (#25289278)
How is this different than any other OS? My preferred software is Mac or *nix based, so by your logic:

To be a "Windows user" you have to give up the software you prefer, and use the software Windows prefers you to use. And you don't get to be unhappy if the software you prefer doesn't run OK?

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by neogodless on Thursday December 03, 2020 @10:03AM (#25289459)
I can't tell but I think you're making my point. As a Windows user, I can absolutely be unhappy if software I prefer does not run. If someone comes around and says "but that software was originally for Mac... you aren't allowed to expect it to run well on Windows! A real Windows user wouldn't complain about that software."

And if the software I prefer runs better on macOS, I have a good reason to switch away from Windows. Just as if software you prefer runs better on Windows, you can complain about macOS (or in this case, incompatibility due to the ISA switch.)

My issue was with the comment using "mac user" as an excuse for software that isn't what the "true" mac user considers essential not working well.

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by nickelcitymario on Thursday December 03, 2020 @02:40PM (#25293596)
Oh, I think I completely misunderstood your original comment.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by simonh on Thursday December 03, 2020 @10:16AM (#25289589)
MacOS is extremely good at supporting software originally developed on the OSes. After all you can get all the flagship MS Office apps on the Mac in very good iterations, plenty of Windows first vendors do support the Mac with version of their software, there are virtualisation and emulation solutions, and a lot of Linux software compiles and runs fine on the Mac as it's also a flavour of Unix.

In contrast, if you take the vast majority of MacOS first apps, there is no way you are ever running the vast majority of that stuff on other platforms. A wide variety of games even run on MacOS either natively or through compatibility layers like Porting Kit. In this respect out of Windows, Linux/Unix and MacOS, I think it's clear that MacOS wins hands down. It's not even close.

So given that this is pretty obvious, and I have a hard time believing you aren't perfectly well aware of this, why on earth are you trying to make this argument. Is running other platform's software really a primary criterion for you? In which case, the Mac should be right up your street.

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by toddmorey on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:38AM (#25289216)
But that goes equally across platforms. When I'm on a windows machine, I miss the hell out of Keynote and Bear, for example.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by neogodless on Thursday December 03, 2020 @10:05AM (#25289491)
Exactly. So you either go back to using macOS, or you complain that Windows doesn't run the software you like. It's OK to do that for any OS you run. It's a valid reason to not like an OS, or in this case, an OS that is going through a transition to a new ISA. Until it runs the software you prefer, it isn't ideal.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by shawnz on Thursday December 03, 2020 @04:48PM (#25295605)
Sure, but it doesn't necessarily make it an objectively poorer product just because it's hard to swim against the current on that platform. Every platform necessarily has some expectation of doing things a certain way, and when things are done that way the experience will be better/easier.

You seemed to be implying that this was some unique problem with OSX and that's what is holding you back from trying M1. But really, it sounds like what is holding you back is just the normal barriers of changing platforms.

Personally as a Windows user I am hoping that Windows for ARM gets supported on M1 soon, but I don't think it's so unreasonable we're not there yet, and I am not going to discount the whole platform just because of it.

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by neogodless on Thursday December 03, 2020 @05:40PM (#25296287)
I do not hope to imply that this is a unique problem on OSX. I just disagree a bit that you have to conform to a standardized way to use a platform. Perhaps you do, with OSX, and it is a unique problem there? Obviously due to market structure, Microsoft gears Windows to "everyone" without being the "best" for many people, although it tends to be the best for PC gaming.

What is holding me back from trying the M1, personally, is cost. I just paid $950 for a Ryzen 7 4800H with 16GB and GTX 1660 Ti. It can't hold a candle to an M1 Macbook in battery life, but I know I can run my programs and play my games and not think twice about it. My failsafe is an electrical outlet. I'm hoping I can end up trying an M1 (or successor) through an employer though! I spent the past year using a ~2014 Macbook Pro through work, and for work things, it was better than my Windows machines for working on projects where everyone else used bash on a Mac. As WSL improved, I was able to be equally productive on my Windows machines and tend to use them and not bother with the Macbook Pro.

That's all a lot of extra anecdote you didn't need, but to be sure, I'm not trying to single out OSX - the OP singled it out by saying, essentially, "you're using it wrong!"

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by faitswulff on Thursday December 03, 2020 @10:17AM (#25289609)
FWIW my main point was that Moorhead is likely not indicative of the average Mac user.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by haunter on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:06AM (#25288899)
>WinZip

https://www.winzip.com/mac/en/

>Xbox 360 Controller for Mac

What's sketchy about that?

Apple is pushing the "play any iOS game on the new Macs" hard. And a lot of them are supporting controllers natively on iPad and iPhone so obvious someone wants to try that out too.

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by JohnBooty on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:14AM (#25288972)
I'm confused. Is that author running some "Xbox 360 Controller for Mac" application?

I remember there used to be some special apps back in the day, to let you use a 360 controller on MacOS.

I wonder if the author knows that you don't need those apps any more?

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by supermatt on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:34AM (#25289188)
yep, that's exactly what he's doing, and its not compatible with Big Sur because its a kext - nothing to do with the M1
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by mikestew on Thursday December 03, 2020 @11:03AM (#25290199)
What Mac user tries to use Edge...?

This Mac user, having just discovered that there's a macOS version of Edge. TIL...

EDIT: well, you're off to a good start, Microsoft:

https://imgur.com/a/IWZMlMl

Instead of a browser, I guess I installed demons. I wish they'd get this shit right. MS Teams always has this notification window hiding in the background so that whenever one alt-tabs to Teams the window doesn't actually have focus and your typing goes to /dev/null. And now their browser does this "fit-and-finish" crap that few muggles will parse.

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by thr0w3345 on Thursday December 03, 2020 @04:07PM (#25294951)
Gah, the exact same thing started happening for me with teams this week and it’s been driving me crazy.

I guess I’ll have to rm it, all its junk in ~/Library and see if it gtfo’s and starts behaving again..

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by solarkraft on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:25AM (#25289077)
I have experienced many crashes of these on Wintel. What a surprise that they crash on M1 Macs!
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by kolinko on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:08AM (#25288913)
I just installed WinZip - runs smoothly on my M1.

Ditto Microsoft Edge, installed, ran a few websites - no issues, aside from a bit slow speed (although it may be just a crappy browser, never tried it on an Intel).

Perhaps with some heavier usage there are issues, but so far so good.

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by madeofpalk on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:33AM (#25289166)
Wait, WinZip is available on a Mac?

I know its not the point, but... what's the point of using WinZip on a mac when the OS has built in unzipping?

Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by falcolas on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:53AM (#25289367)
More granular control, more compression options.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by billforsternz on Thursday December 03, 2020 @05:38PM (#25296260)
Windows has built in unzipping too, but I still find WinZip really useful (for zipping, and fast unzipping the way I want).
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by tracker1 on Thursday December 03, 2020 @08:59AM (#25288853)
That does sound a little sketchy... though I can see wanting to use the 360 controller, would like to see a review on how well most of the Steam supported games run for example. I'd been considering doing an ITX build for the living room, mostly for emulation/games... the new mac mini is definitely in the consideration, and seems to sit right between a lot of the nuc/sff options and mini-itx options and punch above it's weight against the latter.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by pwinnski on Thursday December 03, 2020 @11:45AM (#25290870)
I think no additional software is needed to use the 360 controller on an M1 Mac.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by GekkePrutser on Thursday December 03, 2020 @03:26PM (#25294288)
Enterprise users often don't have a choice. Microsoft is pushing very hard to get Edge set as mandated browser at enterprises everwhere. In work we're also moving away from Chrome for this reason.
Re:M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness by balls187 on Thursday December 03, 2020 @01:33PM (#25292613)
Macbook Pro user since 2007.

I use Chromium Edge. Runs great on my Intel 16" MBP.