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Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by EvanAnderson on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @10:26AM (#25199277)
Again w/ Neal Stephenson bring prescient (in this case his 1992 "Snow Crash"):

Y.T.'s mom pulls up the new memo, checks the time, and starts reading it. The estimated reading time is 15.62 minutes. Later, when Marietta does her end-of-day statistical roundup, sitting in her private office at 9:00 P.M., she will see the name of each employee and next to it, the amount of time spent reading this memo...

Y.T.'s mom decides to spend between fourteen and fifteen minutes reading the memo. It's better for younger workers to spend too long, to show that they're careful, not cocky. It's better for older workers to go a little fast, to show good management potential. She's pushing forty. She scans through the memo, hitting the Page Down button at reasonably regular intervals, occasionally paging back up to pretend to reread some earlier section. The computer is going to notice all this. It approves of rereading. It's a small thing, but over a decade or so this stuff really shows up on your work-habits summary.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by paxys on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @01:50PM (#25201587)
This isn't even close to satire anymore. I know managers who track which of their employees have read Google Docs they send out, and how long they take to first open it.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by banana_giraffe on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:13PM (#25201916)
In the same vein, I'm part of a reporting chain that uses "Officevibe". Mini little surveys to measure our happiness. Now managers have goals for various metrics.

Of course, that has turned the entire thing into the most annoying game you can imagine. Add in the "beatings will continue until morale improves" meetings on the reports, and I'm now convinced one of the best questions I can ask of a new employer is "how do you track employee morale?".

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by pklausler on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @04:18PM (#25203097)
My organization has also switched to web-based "frequent quick anonymous surveys". I always do them to keep my boss out of trouble for poor response rates, but I skip all of the questions and just add a comment that I don't believe in the anonymity guarantee.

Someday, I'll get asked why that is, and I'll get a chance to quote Seymour Cray's "I think that you just answered your own question."

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by reaperducer on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @06:18PM (#25204172)
While going over the latest "anonymous" department survey early last year, one of the HR people slipped up and said something like, "...and Mike had really good feedback at the end of his survey." She then had to admit that the surveys weren't anonymous. A lot of people were pissed. We haven't had a survey since.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by tintor on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @08:42PM (#25205094)
Surveys can't be anonymous if they require login or custom URL for each user.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by rtkwe on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @09:50PM (#25205513)
They can be if the results are decoupled from the tracking URL and the results aren't shown live (to avoid a really dedicated manager matching changes in the results to changes in who's responded).
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by tintor on Wednesday November 25, 2020 @10:54PM (#25216665)
Problem is that as user of the survey you can't verify that results are decoupled from the URL / login.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by danudey on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:41PM (#25202201)
I saw a great idea for a Slack integration a few years back.

Instead of having these quarterly "how is working here?" surveys that no one likes, you could input a bunch of questions and it would "randomly" (probably not randomly, but arbitrarily) message them to members of your organizations, and anonymise the results.

That meant that instead of having some huge process every quarter where everyone just kind of skips through the whole thing, if they even read it at all, you could get a semi-live feel for how things are going day to day or week to week, and even get relatively-realtime indications about what effect company events were having on employees.

You can easily get into cynical territory, where you know that an impromptu office ice cream and macaron party will bump up morale by 30%, while laying off an entire team will generally drop it by 20%, so obviously you should lay people off on the Thursday and then have an ice cream and macaron party on the Friday, but overall it's a good idea to get a continual sense of the feeling of your teams and what might be troubling or exciting them.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by banana_giraffe on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:54PM (#25202347)
You're basically describing Officevibe.

It emails people with some frequency between weekly and monthly, and it only asks you a few questions every time. Mostly it's a 1-10 scale thing, with cute little graphics.

It also asks open ended questions where you're told the answers are anonymous. That's all well and good, but if your manager can't figure out who's who from the tone of the message, they're a new manager.

And sure, it sounds like a great idea to spot issues. The instant two managers compare scores, or worse, are compelled to compare scores, all bets are off on it's usefulness. Then when you have a meeting where a high level manager painfully asks for input on how to make things better from the entire team while going over each chart in painful detail, the clear goal every individual contributor has is to just pick 8 or 9 and make the stupid meetings stop.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by lb1lf on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @04:27PM (#25203183)
-At a former employer - a vast engineering multinational - we had a big, annual questionnaire to determine how happy we were to work there. 'On a scale from 1-10, how satisfied are you with...'

We were assured the results were only to be used in aggregate and no response would be possible to trace back to the individual who'd made it.

I almost fell off my chair laughing when the report had been compiled - the responses were anonymized. Of sorts. Responses used in aggregate. Of sorts.

The engineer, female, age bracket 40-49 years, $SITE in the office next door wasn't as amused.

As the sample size was one, her every response had been printed in the report.

Oops.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by namrog84 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @08:04PM (#25204859)
Where I work our similar reports only will show average number values in context of at least 6 responses. And open ended text responses in context where at least 25 people responded.

So often a direct manager can't see open ended text in their context but their skip level manager could.

They shouldn't have ever reported on a sample size of 1. That's a bad system

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by notabee on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @05:04PM (#25203476)
Recently had a similar "anonymization" experience in a workplace survey. There were a lot of short answer questions, and people's names were converted into numbers. The same number for each employee, on every question. Not exactly hard to correlate who's who with a few dozen responses from each person. They also failed completely to clean up any names mentioned in the reponses.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by abqio on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:29PM (#25206050)
Officevibe is not anonymous in certain circumstances. It shows which city (And maybe IP?) the questions were answered from.

If you're working remotely this could easily identify you.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by banana_giraffe on Wednesday November 25, 2020 @12:02AM (#25206185)
Huh. I am working remotely (well, most of my team is now), but more importantly, I'm the only person in the city I'm in. Not that it really changes my responses, I've kind of always assumed my anonymity wasn't guaranteed with this, though it does make me hate Officevibe just a little bit more.

I should start responding to the survey behind a different VPN endpoint each time. See if anyone asks questions.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by must_ache on Wednesday November 25, 2020 @01:30PM (#25212509)
Officevibe doesn't track your city, I don't know where he got that from.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by throwaway888abc on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @04:53PM (#25203370)
Always randomly clicked through it ie Form filler.

https://fakefiller.com/

Feel your pain

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by SkyPuncher on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @01:59PM (#25201716)
I do that occasionally, but it's never to single out an employee. If I'm sending things out that my reports can't or don't want to read, I'm wasting everyone's time.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by why-el on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:18PM (#25201978)
You can just ask them if they read it in your one-on-ones or in a direct email/Slack/whatever? Instead of tracking their habits?
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by peterwoerner on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:43PM (#25202226)
Asking which of the fifteen memos they read this past quarter might not be a great use of time when you only have ~30 minutes for the one on one.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by anoncow on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:40PM (#25202199)
It seems managers don't want to talk to their reports.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by triceratops on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @03:02PM (#25202426)
People aren't always honest.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by seppin on Wednesday November 25, 2020 @03:12PM (#25213737)
> If I'm sending things out that my reports can't or don't want to read,

If you have to ask..

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by seppin on Wednesday November 25, 2020 @03:12PM (#25213731)
They are bad managers that work at bad companies, then.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by bjarneh on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:50AM (#25200191)
Spooky reading. Almost strange how many times this sad prophecy about surveillance has been told without us reacting properly. Even now; when we are approaching some of the most pessimistic scenarios foretold, we don't seem to react.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by coldtea on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:07PM (#25200401)
As if that's the only thing people don't react about?

Their jobs got outsourced, the police kills without penalty (especially blacks but any race will do), the lobbies run amok, their wages have been stagnant since the late 70s, their employers get increasingly more power over them, health, housing, and college have skyrocketed in costs, ...

... given all the above, which range from quality of life to life and death matters, and which not much protest has been done, surveillance is close to the bottom of the priority list...

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by boogies on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:46PM (#25200858)
> not much protest has been done

> surveillance is close to the bottom of the priority list...

These are directly related. Surveillance causes chilling effects.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by phkahler on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @01:25PM (#25201322)
Sure, but so does apathy. Another approach would be to encourage apathy by legalizing pot. Oh...
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by rebelos on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @05:02PM (#25203461)
Astute observation. The people are essentially being pacified with an ensemble of token gesture legislative palliatives and morale-sapping sedatives.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by rightbyte on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @05:17PM (#25203641)
That one has always felt suspicious to me too ...
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by bjarneh on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @04:13PM (#25203051)
You're right; there are certainly worse things happening which deserves our full attention and reaction. But perhaps this type of "surveillance state", or the general loss of civil liberties is a key to eroding everything else to its core. In a true "surveillance state", anything is easy to rig for those controlling it...
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by eloisius on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:26PM (#25206044)
I’ve seen lots of protesting over the last decade. The strange thing is that it never, ever amounts to anything other than completely trivial placation in the US. It seems like the Europeans are willing to burn their cities down to get something they want every few years, but they often end up getting it. Here, we can have a summer of rage and nothing happens. It spirals into minutia about whether it’s federal, state, or local changes. Some national programs or studies may happen, maybe a few local changes happen, but overall things go on as before. I can’t imagine an actual grass-roots challenge to something like constant domestic surveillance actually having any effect, because I’ve never seen it.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by core-questions on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:22PM (#25202022)
People react, but their reaction is channeled into a false dichotomy. What the elites learned from 1984 etc. is that you do need to provide an enemy for the people, but the people are not united; so you need to provide two enemies, each of which is a champion of one side and a foe for the other, and then let the spectre of this false choice become the defining characteristic of people's identity.

Witness it in the people who hate Trump or Clinton or Biden or anyone else that is put forward: you can divide an entire country on it right down the middle, and meanwhile their policies in reality (not policy positions! implementations!) are basically indistinguishable. The same thing would happen regardless of who is elected, for the most part, because the election is a show, a pressure release valve to make people think they've done something.

Even now we have people who think that electing Biden will help solve the problems you've pointed out. People ostensibly on the Left are mad about four years of rhetoric that has been riling them up, and have pulled the lever for "change" to resolve this. And yes, you will _hear_ less about blacks being shot by police for four years - that's part of the strategy, which the media cooperates / coordinates with. The actual number of incidents may not change... Instead, it will be time for news stories and events which angry up the Right for a few years, again forcing them to direct their resources and energy at fighting some spectre that won't change anything instead of directing their efforts inward to truly root out corruption and decay.

There is no protest. Protests are just the establishment throwing a different sort of parade, celebrating their power by demonstrating what they can allow to happen without facing any consequences themselves. Go ahead, yell in the street, burn down a city - nothing changes because nobody is listening and your actions ultimately only hurt people lower down the chain.

Surveillance did not stop the summer of Antifa and BLM rioting. It will not stop a summer of redneck riots if that's in the cards either. Surveillance probably does stop people who actually stand some chance of causing real change; but if that is a functional, working thing, you won't hear a word about it.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by throwaway1723 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @03:07PM (#25202470)
Everything's to the point except it wasn't Orwell who taught elites proper sheepherding. They've been doing it throughout all the known history.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by core-questions on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @03:45PM (#25202840)
Good point, yes. 1984 just gives us that crystal clear image of everyone hating Goldstein - whereas in this reality half the people hate Goldstein and the other half hate Steingold (or whatever you'd put in as a convenient narrative opposite, not intending to reflect any individuals in reality) and neither of them realizes that their hate should be focused on Big Brother himself.

(A quick google shows me that Steingold is famous for bagels, and nobody hates bagels)

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by earleybird on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @03:42PM (#25202805)
What is teaching if not summing up history in a concise presentation :-)
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by Gabrielfair on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @04:28PM (#25203185)
And marx taught us about false consciousness.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by bjarneh on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @04:16PM (#25203080)
That's a very bleak outlook. I hope you are wrong, but fear you are right.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by core-questions on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @05:23PM (#25203695)
I hope I am wrong too. It is bleak! It might be the six months of grey rain that I'm looking at out the window, it might be a year of heavy burden bearing down on me, or it might just be a heroic dose of Depressive Realism.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by sifar on Wednesday November 25, 2020 @01:54AM (#25206594)
You are not wrong. I came across this poem in the Chinese Book of Songs. It is an acknowledgement of everything wrong happening around us, and over which we have no control; a way to keep your sanity and function. Something akin to rational anarchy.

Don't escort the big chariot; You will only make yourself dusty. Don't think about the sorrows of the world; You will only think yourself wretched.

Don't escort the big chariot; You won't be able to see for dust. Don't think about the sorrows of the world; Or you will never escape from your despair.

Don't escort the big chariot; You'll be stifled with dust. Don't think about the sorrows of the world; You will only load yourself with care.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by core-questions on Friday November 27, 2020 @02:53PM (#25232048)
Thanks for that. It's always good to be mindful that this is hardly the first or the last time that this will happen to me or anyone else :-)
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by bjarneh on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @07:52PM (#25204791)
Sometimes things have to get quite bad before enough incentive to fix them appears.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by feralimal on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:27PM (#25202064)
In conspiracy culture, this is called predictive programming. We are shown the ideas in films etc, so then when it appears in reality, we don't react in shock and reject it. Rather we shrug and are resigned to its appearance in reality.

This also correlates to the idea of boiling frogs. Apparently, if you turn up the heat slowly the frog will stay in the warm water and be boiled, as opposed to jumping out, which is what happens if you place the frog directly into warm water.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by mrec on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:56PM (#25202366)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog#Experiments_and_a...

Overall, results seem inconclusive. I don't see that Hutchinson's result (frog becomes increasingly active as water is heated by 1°C per minute) contradicts Heinzmann's (no movement as water is heated by 0.2°C per minute).

Goltz's finding that "a frog that has had its brain removed will remain in slowly heated water" seems... unsurprising.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by ornornor on Wednesday November 25, 2020 @12:53AM (#25206356)
There is a joke in the same vein where scientists try and train fleas to learn and obey commands to jump. They find that the hardest fleas to teach how to jump on command are those with all legs removed: they’re the most stubborn and refuse to jump when asked 100% of the time.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by feralimal on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @03:45PM (#25202839)
I did say 'apparently'. :) Good research though!
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by throwaway1723 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @03:27PM (#25202650)
By the time everyone can tell conspiracy theories from conspiracy practices it's already too late.

It's all based on three words: 'already', 'will', and 'we'. 'We are already being tracked by our smartphones - So we will be wearing implanted radio chips soon".

Reject 'we' by not using one and you're not being 'aready' tracked, and hence 'will' not accept whatever coming after this.

But it requires some bravery, which is known to be eradicated in people these days.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by feralimal on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @03:45PM (#25202831)
Well, conspiracy has a bad name, but really I think that's the only domain you can understand the possible reality of what's been planned and undertaken in this world nowadays.

It really should be a bad term - of course very powerful people conspire to ensure that they get the best they can. And that would mean writing legislation, defining what education is, etc, etc. Its all very obvious...

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by crististm on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @04:23PM (#25203145)
I remember a naval officer survivor of a rocket or torpedo hit (post WWII) describing what he was going through at those moments. He basically was tracking the thing with his eyes as it approached, practically mesmerized, not incapable of moving but locked in awe of that unstoppable thing approaching, knowing fully well that he should take cover immediately but practically doing nothing.

I think we're doing the same, in a sense asking privately "bring it on; let's see what this would do... to _them_ " as if we're watching a tornado from the safety of the TV not caring of the results; and like that navy officer not able to defend the ship, locked in awe (or ignorance?) of our own peril.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by throwaway1723 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:58PM (#25202395)
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by Nasrudith on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:02PM (#25200346)
It isn't a prophecy it is reading in what you want to see from it. Snow Crash was over the top camp when it was first written.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by coldtea on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:08PM (#25200416)
Well, I haven't read Snow Crash, but this excerpt is neither "over the top" nor camp, and appears quite prophetic given 2020.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by freeone3000 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @01:48PM (#25201566)
The main character of Snow Crash is named Hiro Protagonist. The above is meant to be absurdity, like the full body scanner in Airplane 2.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by GekkePrutser on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @01:57PM (#25201676)
You mean like the ones we have now?
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by freeone3000 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:02PM (#25201752)
It was an absurdity at the time.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by rriepe on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @03:07PM (#25202468)
Well, I haven't seen Airplane!, but this example is neither "over the top" nor camp, and appears quite prophetic given 2020.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by boogies on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @10:43AM (#25199431)
> hitting the Page Down button at reasonably regular intervals, occasionally paging back up to pretend to reread some earlier section

How long does simple key logging last before they add eye tracking?

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by boogies on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @11:10AM (#25199701)
…or Apple Watch-like pulse tracking, etc., and then who knows if/when Neuralink becomes practically, widely deployable and useful. I think we’re just a bit beyond the technical capabilities of the Thought Police right now in terms of sensing — their telescreens could hear breathing in quiet rooms, but on the other hand Orwell didn’t seem to foresee people buying their own pocketable ones with GPS & cell triangulation, etc. (they didn’t necessarily know everyone’s exact location all the time) — but perhaps we’re quickly surpassing their analytics abilities (particularly bandwidth — finite human staff are less of a bottleneck) with AI.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by drdaeman on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @01:37PM (#25201454)
If this happens, two^W three can play this game. If this ever becomes a thing, I'm definitely going to open a business, selling 3D printed heads with animated eyes.

Elevator pitch for VCs would be about machine learning - neural networks generating consumer head nodding behaviors that match the read phrases, as well as rising simulated body temperature in righteous awe or anger upon "reading" certain pieces of spam. And how all that behavioral data is somehow valuable (lol).

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by EvanAnderson on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @01:44PM (#25201524)
You'll need that fake head to be vascularized too. Photoplethysmography is a thing. >smile<
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by danudey on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:42PM (#25202219)
Okay so now I'm just meant to hire someone who looks like me to read my e-mails for me? Definitely going to have to try to expense that.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by TheOtherHobbes on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @07:07PM (#25204517)
You can outsource it. Better yet, set up a startup to offshore it. Or - ding ding! - AI it, providing Virtual Work as a Service.

You can have virtual cubicles full of imaginary AI-generated people automating bureaucratic busywork being generated by AI management algorithms.

Maybe I should write a novel about this. (Or am I too late?)

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by MaxBarraclough on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:10PM (#25201883)
> selling 3D printed heads with animated eyes

I figure it's an arms race that will play out in the software space. More generally, it's deep-fakes vs deep-fake-detectors.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by user5994461 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @01:53PM (#25201631)
Eye tracking is already live in production.

Had the joy to see some contractors at work. The webcam is recording 24/7 to ensure their face is in front of the screen.

If the employee looks away for a second, the screen flashes something about no user being present.

If somebody else shows up in the field of view, for example me walking by, the screen flashes something about an unauthorized user.

The session is locked out after a few notifications.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by Loughla on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:21PM (#25202003)
Higher education 'anti-cheating' technology is just like that.

They're trash.

This is what it looks like for students: use your laptop webcam to scan the room with your webcam, remove anything deemed suspicious; provide proof of identity (student id), wait for the software to register your face, name, and identity; test opens take test, do not look down or it locks, do not look away or it locks, do not refer to your notes or it locks, do not have people walk behind you or it locks, do not have pets walk behind you or it locks, do not have posters of movies behind you or it registers as a person and locks, do not accidentally click another tab or window or it locks, do not use any of the built-in windows accessibility tools or certain 3rd party accessibility tools (dragon software) or it locks, do not use a mac or it locks; fail test.

Single parents, individuals living with many people in the home, and anyone who does not have access to an isolated quiet, alone work space is screwed.

And it's completely asinine. Just ridiculous.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by toyg on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:04PM (#25201802)
Please tell us where this is happening, so that we can avoid ever working there. Pretty sure this would be illegal in most European countries.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by user5994461 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:19PM (#25201989)
The software is made by a US software company.

You have to onboard user accounts to them, install the authentication software on a laptop, and it will open a remote desktop to an AWS workspace. The session is constantly tracking the user's face and gets terminated if they look away for a minute.

Contractors are disconnected regularly because their face stopped being recognized, or they can't login in the first place after 5 tries.

Recall one contractor that contacted support because they couldn't login, support told him that their face was too dark.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by ChuckNorris89 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @03:12PM (#25202517)
>The session is constantly tracking the user's face and gets terminated if they look away for a minute

The hell did I just read?! Can't tell if this is satire or real at his point but anyway let me just beat your employee tracking system by propping up a photo of my face in front of the webcam.

Wait, is your fancy system looking for features of life like facial twitches and eye movement to not be fooled by a photo?

Fine, here's a deepfaked avatar of my face acting alive powered by nvidia's latest deep learning magic.

See where this is going?

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by zebnyc on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @04:38PM (#25203259)
Had the pleasure of applying to reddit earlier this year.

Was sent a link for an online test (hackerrank if I remember right) for which I needed to keep my camera ON.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by GekkePrutser on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @01:58PM (#25201692)
Wow I would hate to work there.

Unless this is some kind of top-secret government consultancy thing that is totally unappropriate.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by user5994461 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:04PM (#25201800)
The work involves reading and reviewing some documents. Some confidential documents but nothing fancy.

It's minimum wage, hourly contracting with no benefits.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by zentiggr on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @04:04PM (#25202981)
So in other words, easily swapped out for something far more humane. Sounds like the best path.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by mpfundstein on Wednesday November 25, 2020 @05:50AM (#25207877)
which country was that? and what work did the contractors do?
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by na85 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @01:33PM (#25201411)
Not long. Software as an industry feels particularly devoid of ethics these days. If Bloggins doesn't build this for his employer the guy in the next co-working space will.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by pjlegato on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:01PM (#25201737)
There is no coherent "software industry" as a unitary entity with shared norms and standards. There never was.

Since all you really need to get started is a laptop, there are rather millions of more or less atomized software shops and developers attached to other industries, other streams of revenue and capital, other entirely disconnected cultures and social norms.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by n0nc3 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @01:45PM (#25201534)
Given that its already deployed in academic contexts, I suspect that the more invasive employers are already using it. Finance, defense, etc.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by caymanjim on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:00PM (#25201730)
Having worked extensively in both finance and defense, your assumptions are way off base. This kind of monitoring is the purview of corporations like Amazon, Walmart, McDonald's, and others who treat employees like machines. Defense and finance have highly skilled brain workers and they aren't micromanaging performance metrics like this. They are tracking information access for security reasons where appropriate, and in the case of finance, tracking results insofar as it relates to risk and profit, but they're not monitoring grunt-level input metrics the way you imply.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by n0nc3 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:04PM (#25201784)
"Former JPMorgan colleagues describe the environment as Wall Street meets Apocalypse Now, with Cavicchia as Colonel Kurtz, ensconced upriver in his office suite eight floors above the rest of the bank’s security team." [0]

What really scares me is the number of people that adopt this strange Panglossian view dismissing every abuse of power as a one-off that cannot possibly reveal widespread systemic failures.

[0] https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-palantir-peter-thiel...

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by koonsolo on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @01:52PM (#25201607)
That would be illegal in EU
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by temp667 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:01PM (#25201750)
Are you sure. The EU mandates much MORE monitoring in most cases. Self driving cars may need to have camera's on occupants to monitor them during driving etc. A lot of the safety stuff in EU is MUCH more nanny state and CCTV is much more widespread it seems. Also very power data collection and centralized databases about everyone in the EU (ie, I don't think "states" or localities issue local ID's).
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by Teknoman117 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:15PM (#25201934)
I think the point was that while the various governments in the EU deploy surveillance systems en masse, private companies can not.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by TheOtherHobbes on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @07:12PM (#25204545)
"May"

And no - CCTV is not widespread at all. There's far more CCTV in the UK than there is in the EU where I live now.

States do indeed issue local IDs. There is no common EU ID card and no common EU passport.

There isn't even a common immigration database for Schengen - although that's planned for 2023. (It was supposed to be 2022, but it's been delayed by a year.)

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by koonsolo on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @05:27PM (#25203732)
Spying on employees is very restricted. Anything that would even come close to it would be strongly rejected by the unions.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by EvanAnderson on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @10:59AM (#25199582)
Seems very feasible: https://webgazer.cs.brown.edu/
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by harryf on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:00PM (#25200316)
The GSuite apps (when you’re paying) tell you who looked a spreadsheet, doc etc and when they did it. Missing is how long
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by crazygringo on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @01:55PM (#25201648)
But that's not a feature primarily for management, it's a feature for the document creator.

When you send around slides or a doc, there are times when it's actually pretty useful to see who took a look or not -- so if it's important you can ping them. It's not perfect, but it helps.

Privacy-wise it's not a whole lot different from being able to see who's currently viewing the document, which has existed forever.

Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by indymike on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @03:28PM (#25202664)
There's a big difference in how they are being presented and to who the numbers are presented to.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by philsnow on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:43PM (#25202223)
Also comically missing is what document version they looked at. At best, it might say you saw version "Friday".
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by purplecats on Friday November 27, 2020 @12:21AM (#25225720)
you can opt our at the employee level, at least at my company which ive done
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by YetAnotherNick on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:03PM (#25200358)
Steps please. Asking for a friend.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by Spooky23 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @02:29PM (#25202087)
It wasn’t that prescient. GroupWise allowed that in the 90s. I knew a few psycho manager types who were angry when I moved them to Exchange because they would track who opened their messages and yell at them if it wasn’t fast enough. :)
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by sp332 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @08:44PM (#25205105)
Snow Crash was satire of a genre of sci-fi story, so while it may have popularized some ideas I don't think it was trying to be prescient. Entertaining though :)
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by EvanAnderson on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @06:55PM (#25204430)
My wife worked in a GroupWise shop in the early 2000's and apparently there was tracking-related political intrigue and drama. >sigh<
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by No1 on Wednesday November 25, 2020 @01:12PM (#25212275)
I was thinking of this passage when I took some mandatory online corporate “security training” a few weeks ago. They required scrolling through all of the text on each page and looking at it for a minimum amount of time (a few minutes) before you could click through to the next page.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by ideamotor on Friday November 27, 2020 @12:23AM (#25225735)
Buahahahaha. I need to read that book again.
Re:Microsoft 365 has employee surveillance and analytics bui... by imperialdrive on Wednesday November 25, 2020 @03:09AM (#25206964)
I just started Diamond Age... Good times.