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Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by silicon2401 on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @11:16AM (#24777463)
FB ownership is definitely an instant deal-breaker regarding the Oculus for me. I've heard that the Valve Index is a good alternative. Does anybody with VR experience have any input on that?
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by jaaron on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @01:49PM (#24779415)
I have owned about a dozen VR headsets at this point, including the Quest (not the Quest 2) and the Vive Index. The Index is fantastic, but it's difficult to compare to the Quest which is truly in a category of its own.

For headsets, there are several properties that segment the market:

1. Tracking: outside cameras/emitters vs inside-out tracking

2. Tethered vs wireless (including PC powered, but using wireless transmission)

3. PC powered vs standalone device

For each of these, there are multiple vendors to choose from, except for standalone devices. In this case, the Oculus Quest is unique. There's no other competition.

Moreover, the Quest is the only device that can be run without a corresponding high end PC. If you don't have a PC like that, then the cost is prohibitive. There's also the space factor. VR needs space, which is already an issue. With the PC powered headsets, you also need that PC to be close enough to your open VR space. Otherwise, you need to rearrange your living space or invest in a VR dedicated PC.

In summary, the Vive Index is fantastic and arguably the best headset in the market right now, but the Oculus Quest fills a different niche of that market.

(And as to the topic of the article: I'm done with Oculus based on Facebook's policies).

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by cesarb on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:22PM (#24779812)
> For each of these, there are multiple vendors to choose from, except for standalone devices. In this case, the Oculus Quest is unique. There's no other competition.

The only VR headsets I've seen so far in stores around here (a major metropolitan city) are headsets with only the lenses, in which you slot your own smartphone as the screen and CPU. Wouldn't these also count as standalone devices in your classification?

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by jaaron on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @04:17PM (#24781066)
As the others noted, those platforms are all deprecated now. Even when they weren't, they didn't give anywhere near the experience of other headsets.

[I've had the Google cardboard, DayDream and the Samsung Gear headsets.]

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by bikezen on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:26PM (#24779861)
Google has killed daydream, Samsung also killed GearVR and their VR video stuff. I don't know if there are others that will still work in this kind of headset, so not sure how relevant is anymore.
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by blkhawk on Thursday October 15, 2020 @02:49AM (#24785618)
These are so crappy in comparison that i wouldn't even call them VR. The Quest is several generations ahead.

Its like comparing a pre-model-T car with a car from 1950. You might argue that for some purposes both are equivalent but that doesn't capture the qualitative improvement that has happened almost everywhere. Everything is improved and some areas feel perfected in comparison.

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by zwily on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @03:43PM (#24780683)
They’re kind of gimmicky, and don’t give the 6DOF you get with the Quest.
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by tomnipotent on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:41PM (#24780043)
> Vive Index

Do you mean the Valve Index or the HTC Vive?

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by filoleg on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:46PM (#24780096)
I strongly suspect the parent is talking about Valve Index, because HTC Vive is pretty much an old-gen inferior version of Valve Index.
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by jaaron on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @04:15PM (#24781041)
Yes. My bad.
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by bmh100 on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:12PM (#24779681)
If you don't my asking, what do you consider to be the best VR headset for sitting?
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by jaaron on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @04:23PM (#24781136)
Best headset for sitting is a inside-out, tethered VR headset.

Until recently, the Oculus Rift S would be a great pick for that.

I don't yet have an HP Reverb G2, but I expect good things out of that headset. The HTC Cosmos would also be a good choice.

The Valve Index (yes, I mistyped before) is an awesome headset, but the lighthouse emitter based tracking system isn't great for seated. Not only is it a hassle to setup, but it's easier for your chair or monitor or whatever to block the laser grid from the lighthouse units. And if you're seated, you aren't taking advantage of the highly accurate room-scale tracking the lighthouses provide. I'd stick with the convenience of an inside-out headset if you're primarily doing seated VR.

For example, I tended to prefer my Rift S for sim games (sim racing, sim flight) for all the reasons listed above.

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by whywhywhywhy on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @01:07PM (#24778956)
> I've heard that the Valve Index is a good alternative

They're not even comparable. The Quest is a headset and two controllers you put it on and pick the controllers up, draw a room boundary and you're in. Works in any room in your house, completely stand alone.

Index requires you to install multiple sensors in a specific room in your house, and requires a connection to a desktop PC tower and fiddling around with Steam to play.

I think the FB account requirement is incredibly dumb from Oculus (Don't understand why it couldn't just be a shadow account like Insta/Whatsapp which everyone seems fine with weirdly) but really the product their offering is entirely in a class of it's own for a fraction of the price a normal VR setup costs and a fraction of the hassle.

I think if the market was different and what they were offering wasn't unique I think far fewer people would care and we'd all just buy different headsets.

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by echelon on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @01:37PM (#24779300)
Facebook might be sensing that their market is dwindling as other vendors catch up. They might be trying to extract value why they have the lead.

I honestly have no idea though. I don't get why they're in this space as it doesn't appear from the outside that they're trying very hard.

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by bigbubba on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:19PM (#24779765)
Maybe they think the entire market is drying up? The AAA blockbuster everybody thought would make VR mainstream (Half Life) seems to have fizzled with great reviews but not many sales. Maybe Facebook now believes VR will prove to be a bubble and they want to juice it for all they can while they still can.
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by nvarsj on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @03:52PM (#24780786)
Not sure this makes much sense. All the top end VR headsets are constantly sold out and require waiting months to get one (Index and soon the HP Reverb G2). People want to play Alyx but they can't.

Also a PC only game is niche enough, no PCVR game will ever make VR mainstream. Really, the mainstream VR game is Beat Saber - that alone has probably sold more VR headsets than any other app or game combined.

The only way to make VR mainstream imo is to offer it at console prices or less and make it standalone, which is exactly what the Quest is doing. It's really unfortunate it requires an FB account. I guess they justify it because Xbox and PS5 both require online accounts too.

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by drusepth on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @06:29PM (#24782463)
>Really, the mainstream VR game is Beat Saber - that alone has probably sold more VR headsets than any other app or game combined.

Ironically, Facebook also acquired Beat Games (who makes Beat Saber) last year and effectively ruined it by intentionally breaking all the mods and custom songs, leaving it a shell of its former glory.

According to steamcharts [1], player counts peaked around July 2019 and have only dwindled since the acquisition (with the exception of two small bumps when the acquisition happened in November). Average player counts are have been cut in half since then, in less than a year.

I have almost 200 hours in Beat Saber, but I haven't played it for almost a year now, now that it's just the same two-dozen songs over and over.

[1] https://steamcharts.com/app/620980#1y

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by nvarsj on Thursday October 15, 2020 @04:32AM (#24786208)
That's really sad to see. I also found the included songs pretty boring, and without custom beatmaps and scoresaber it's not really very good. I wonder what FB's strategy is here - why cut out the enthusiasts?
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by Aeolun on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @07:13PM (#24782829)
Wait, we can’t do custom songs any more? Then what’s the point of the game?
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by drusepth on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @09:28PM (#24783787)
Modders (luckily) keep finding a way. It's just unfortunate for the player that having Facebook as an owner means they need to show more good will in preventing the distribution of custom songs so they don't get held accountable for piracy.

I paid attention to the dev discord servers for a few months after the acquisition when they were churning through new mods when the old ones broke and people gave up on trying to maintain them, but haven't checked it recently. I would expect there's probably working mods still, but it's also probably a lot harder to keep them working over time.

FB's official stance on modding is that they will support mods that don't engage in "piracy or illicit modding, including mods that infringe on third-party IP rights". [1]

[1] https://www.oculus.com/blog/welcoming-beat-games-to-facebook...

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by andybak on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @08:21PM (#24783368)
Because the official beatmaps are pretty damn good?

(Are custom songs really broken? Haven't tried in a month or so)

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by Aeolun on Thursday October 15, 2020 @08:42AM (#24787966)
No doubt about that, but I still enjoy playing to my favorite music much more.
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by tekknik on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @08:50PM (#24783535)
I dunno, I feel like it’s reaching saturation. Those that want VR are getting it, but then there’s those of us who are gamers, but forget it’s even a thing until someone mentions it. I am a gamer myself (have a 2080, sitting out the 3000 series), and I honestly don’t want one nor see how it can make gaming more enjoyable for me. So to me it seems like it’s going the same route attempt #1 did in the 90s, there’s some market but not enough.
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by tramav on Thursday October 15, 2020 @03:56PM (#24793056)
Well, you need to be open about new experiences. And until I got my first VR headset I didn't know what I missed. Now I feel that having a powerful GPU and playing a 3D game on a flat screen is such a waste.
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by tekknik on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:23AM (#24799661)
I have tried VR before
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by Aeolun on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @07:11PM (#24782804)
I want to like Alyx, but the hassle of connecting my VR headset to the computer every time I want to play is just too much of a pain.
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by andybak on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @08:22PM (#24783374)
Simple. Leave it connected.

Joking aside. What headset have you got that takes more than a few minutes to connect?

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by Aeolun on Thursday October 15, 2020 @08:40AM (#24787953)
It’s the Rift, the problem is more that I like to store it somewhere when not in use because headset + controllers + trackers take quite a bit of space on my desk.

Then have to dive behind the computer to connect a HDMI and 3 USB cables (not enough ports on front).

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by fomine3 on Thursday October 15, 2020 @09:36PM (#24796490)
Quest + VirtualDesktop is great untethered experience.
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by esyir on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:03PM (#24779574)
Selling a loss leader to build mindshare and market share isn't my idea of value extraction as compared to building the base for future value extraction.

If you don't think they're trying very hard though, I'm not sure if you've been following VR particularly much.

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by sleepybrett on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @11:58AM (#24778106)
I have experience with the original pc tethered oculus, the htc vive and the valve index.

The valve index is a very nice upgrade over the original htc vive and the original oculus. The 'screen door' effect is all but gone the new controllers are very comfortable and the tracking is stellar. The index is heavier than the original oculus but the way the weight is distributed and the way the strapping works makes it a non issue. My only complaint is also a problem in the 'gen 1' headsets. Reflection off the fresnel lenses can cause some banded 'flare', especially noticeable when most of the screen is very dark but there is some portion of very bright light.

Sadly I have no experience with the 'upstart' headsets from Microsoft, HP, etc.

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by cortesoft on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @03:43PM (#24780682)
Untethered is a game changer for VR.
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by chaostheory on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @11:58AM (#24778101)
Index is awesome but you also need a well spec'd PC, have $999 on hand, and wait a few months for one. I believe the waiting list is 2-3 months now. I missed my reservation the first time, so if you really want one be vigilant in checking your email and Steam account.

Pros

- Knuckles controllers, still nothing like them

- External base station tracking, the only option that opens up full body tracking and makes it easy to do feet based movement

- High Refresh rate

- Good FOV

Cons

- Knuckles still isn't universally supported

- LCD screen and no OLED

- Reverb G2 has a much better screen

- Wires

I would recommend the G2 but its tracking and controllers just aren't as good as the Index, unless you're just going to use it for driving and flying games.

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by zhynn on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:27PM (#24779883)
Don't forget the revolutionary off-ear audio. It's fantastic, and as far as I know, there's still nothing out there like it.
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by jsheard on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:44PM (#24780075)
The Reverb G2 apparently uses the same audio hardware as the Index
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by judge2020 on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @09:33PM (#24783817)
Current wait time for Index is 12-14 weeks (got mine in 12) - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10CTIAd7OzNJhzkimpCFD...
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by Sohcahtoa82 on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @01:59PM (#24779527)
The Valve Index is hands-down the best headset.

But it's also $999, requires a beefy gaming PC, and the setup is slightly more involved. But if you already have a beefy gaming PC (I'm a PC gamer, so I already did), don't mind spending 10 minutes attaching the lighthouses to the corners of your room, and of course have the $999 to buy the full kit, it's worth it.

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by kaibee on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @11:23AM (#24777559)
HP Reverb 2 is coming soon with much higher resolution, though lower refresh rate. Whats better depends on if you're planning on playing sims or action games really.
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by capableweb on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @11:27AM (#24777622)
I'm playing tons of simulation games with my Oculus Rift and starting some weeks ago looking around for an upgrade. HP Reverb 2 is certainly an alternative, anything else I should check out? Playing mostly flying simulators, but also racing and space.

I was thinking of maybe upgrading to the new Oculus' but after announcing it will require a Facebook account I started to rethink that. This submission really hit the nail in the coffin and will absolutely not get another Oculus now.

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by numpad0 on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @11:44AM (#24777919)
I wonder how good Pimax 5K/8K actually is, selling point is super wide FOV but seems a bit finicky to use or something.
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by Sohcahtoa82 on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:02PM (#24779562)
According to another user [0]...

> All the extra angles of FOV are very distorted, and there is a red static constantly fuzzing away in the display.

> Plus, you have to deal with the Pimax company, which has to be one of the most incompetent companies I've ever met when it comes to taking money and delivering product without stepping into the realm of actual fraud. When I bought mine, it was 3 false "it's shipped" announcements, 2 months, and a threat to reverse my credit card charge before I finally received it.

[0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24496969

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by falcolas on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @11:28AM (#24777648)
Confirming the confirmation that the Index is a good collection of hardware. I don't have experience with an Occulus or Vibe, but the Index fell squarely into the "works out of the box" territory.

The only thing I really did to improve it was to 3d print a stand for the hand controllers. More an aesthetic choice than anything.

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by dvtrn on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:02PM (#24778154)
Ohh! Would you be willing to share your files for the hand stands?
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by falcolas on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:33PM (#24778534)
I picked something off Thingiverse, and it's no longer up there. They do have some (IMO better designed) stands on there, however. Many of which support using the magnetic USB-C charging adapters, which I'd personally recommend for the controllers.
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by Kiro on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:39PM (#24778613)
It's not really an alternative in that sense since it's tethered, needs a computer and a completely different ballpark price wise. If you have the money, a good gaming PC and the possibility to set up a dedicated VR space I would definitely buy an Index or HTC Reverb 2 though.
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by tikhonj on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @06:24PM (#24782409)
I have an Index. As long as you have a solid PC, the experience is great—it single-handedly convinced me VR was more than a gimmick. Great quality picture + audio, reasonably ergonomic and I love the controls. Overall, I've been super happy with it.

Downsides to consider:

• You need a solid gaming PC (with a 2070 or better).

• Expensive ($1000 for the kit)

• Connected to the computer by a wire, awkward for "room-scale" VR

• Base stations provide great tracking but require setup (mounting high up in your room) and mean that the setup isn't very portable.

• Limited/janky access to exclusive titles. (You can hack around to get Oculus-only titles to work, but it seems rough and I haven't tried it myself.)

If you're not budget-constrained, I believe the Index will give you the best overall experience.

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by kruczek on Thursday October 15, 2020 @08:37AM (#24787926)
> You need a solid gaming PC (with a 2070 or better).

As a counterpoint, I am using Index together with 1070 Ti and the performance is flawless.

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by nucleardog on Thursday October 15, 2020 @01:54PM (#24791544)
As more anecdata, I had a pretty satisfactory experience with my Vive on an old R9 290x from ~2013. Some more demanding games would occasionally stutter, but everything was generally smooth (based on the performance graph not dropping below the HMD's refresh rate).

The Index is higher resolution/refresh rate and will require more hardware, but if you just want to get into some VR and dick around, the Vive is more than enough to get started, can be found for <$200 used, and a ton of the popular games (e.g., Beat Saber, SuperHot VR, etc) just really aren't that graphically demanding.

The Vive is also compatible with the knuckles controllers and those can be purchased separately, so you're not totally locked out from some of the more game changing stuff either.

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by samanthaj2 on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @04:55PM (#24781494)
I've had a Rift for 3 years (not a Rift-S). I've used a Quest. I bought an Index in August because of this FB account crap but ending up selling it 2 days later.

I'm not a fan of the Index. First problem, it has horrible black levels. Everything looks like you're in a layer of fog compared to the Rift. Maybe if you've never used a Rift before you won't notice but it was shockingly bad for me.

The headphones are utter crap. I don't get whoever thought headphones that hover 1/2 inch away from your ears would work. Take whatever headphones you have now that you're listening to music on and pull them 1/2 inch away for each ear. The sound goes down, it sounds tinny, less full, bases are missing, etc. The Index sounded exactly like that. Some friends said you have to get them perfectly lined up but if that's true the moment you move your head suddenly in some game they're no longer going to be aligned.

This also means the sound leaks into the room far more than it would with on ear headphones. It's not going to be loud but it is going to be annoying for anyone within a room if they aren't making some louder noise.

Next up, Steam VR is just not as good as Oculus Connect (or whatever Oculus's home screen system is called). In part because Oculus has built in "pull up your desktop and/or multiple windows" at anytime in anytime game and pin them to say up. Apparently there's a 3rd party app that will provide this for Index/Vive but I use that feature all the time. Inside a game want to look up a walkthru just pin in there in my view.

Now for some things that no one will admit to but I will...

The Index Controllers didn't feel as good to me as Rift Controllers. I get they have fanciers sensors. I get they grip your hands. But, probably the #1 use for VR is porn. Controllers that require 2 hands to put on are not good for things that require one had to be free.

I have lots of friends in the industry, I see none of them using an Index and plenty of complaints.

As for Quest/Quest 2, even if there wasn't the FB issue it's like choosing an iPhone instead of a PS5. iPhone has tons of great games but it doesn't have PS5 level games. Similarly Quest has tons of great games, but it doesn't have PC level VR games and it will never have any porn games being locked up by Facebook. (and even if it did, do you really want FB knowing which porn games you're playing?)

I'm praying the HP Reverb G2 gets good reviews and solves most of those issues. It's apparently a month or 2 from shipping so I'm crossing my fingers I can get rid of this Rift.

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by q3k on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @11:20AM (#24777518)
I can confirm that, uh, the Index exists and is good. Not sure what else you want to know.
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by bredren on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @11:24AM (#24777581)
How could anyone expect anything they use the device for to be private when it is owned and serviced by Facebook?

Apple’s investment in Privacy is going to pay off so big.

I wonder if Facebook can spin off a company that includes Oculus and competes with Apple on Privacy.

I’d guess no.

Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by sleepybrett on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @11:59AM (#24778127)
Because when facebook bought oculus they claimed that it would never require a fb account and tracking kept at a minimum. That lasted all of maybe six months and finally totally fell apart with the announcement of the 'facebook only' login.
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by bredren on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @01:36PM (#24779287)
I was aware of this, I had meant going forward.
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by dylan604 on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @11:54AM (#24778061)
Why would Facebook spin off anything? I see that happening only if congress forces a break up. Spinning Oculus out of FB seems like a low hanging fruit of a forced break up.
Re:Facebook account banned after linking Oculus account by Macha on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @11:30AM (#24777682)
This is why I went Vive back when there were only two options for desktop VR