Just knowing you exist gives me hope I may still be able to break into tech, at some level. And given that Hurricane Laura just decimated my city ( and my home and my office) I need some hope right now.
This actually took me down a long rabbit hole of how local government software is horrible and someone could crush this area — my only concern would be lack of traction as local governments seem to prefer operating in obscurity/making it difficult to hold them accountable.
OTOH, he's basically a one-man show, and has implied that if he had to scale -- e.g. add 3+ people -- then the $$$ wouldn't go as far. By himself it's a decent paycheck, though.
The problem is municipalities are all different, with different state/local requirements, and they often don't have the money or operational depth to support deeply customized software. I grew up near a park that had to shutdown for several months because they couldn't get enough funds together to have people mow the lawns; where would they find the money for custom code?
Take on contracts to do something that is traditionally done with hand -> write scripts to automate it -> take on more contracts.
At that point you would probably be paid for 20 people's worth for 20 people's work....but automating it will allow you to pocket all of it due to zero (low) costs.
Our startup tried doing this with automated 3D map creation for drone use surveying. It is incredibly easy to undercut traditional competition at a technical level. Convincing corporate to trust in your experiment tho, kinda hard. It is the classic: 'No one has been fired for hiring IBM' conundrum.
In-house counsel jobs can be a bit more relaxing, as you might be working on longer term projects rather than the latest disaster that fell into your lap.
It is, but you have to be quite the expert. It's not like app development where even limited experience can be enough to get by. However if you like that sort of stuff you can try to become a web develoepr (pick say Python or Ruby) and then become an expert in backendy / performence issues.
<filterbubble> one source which supports my worldview: https://www.thecareercookbook.com/hello-world-6/ </filterbubble>
Sometimes I suddenly feel like a fraud, especially when I realize I'm in a meeting where everyone in the room has a CS degree or higher, but overall I feel like I bring a lot of value to what we do and most of all, I really love doing it.
I remember anonymously asking on Quora if people thought I was too old to learn how to program. The amount of support and stories that were shared with me were positively overwhelming. Probably the best answer I received was, "do you enjoy doing this thing?, if so, the answer is you should just do it."
I feel this way sometimes too, despite having a traditional CS degree and being in the software industry my entire professional life. Apparently impostor syndrome is more common than we think.
Personally I've come to believe there are very few people who "fit like a glove", and everyone else has varying degrees of this.
Edit: On rereading this it might appear that I am trying to diminish/dismiss your experiences. I apologize if it came across that way - my intention was more to share that I've heard this same sentiment for different reasons from many different people.
It is usually just your mind playing tricks on you; there is a delta between your internal picture of what a "real" programmer (or senior manager, or whatever position) looks like and your internal image of yourself.
One solution is to duck type yourself until the feeling goes away. Another is to start to recognize that some of your internal definitions might not be shared by others.
I'll leave it as homework to decide which internal definitions matter the most here.
I definitely feel like I’m able to bring significant value, and I’m on a team where almost half of us have masters degrees in CS, while I have just a BA in math and a couple years clocked in grad school (math again).
I tell you what, though: I live for those times when I can make something work easily because I’m able to leverage my math background. It certainly makes understanding recursion fairly easy (many math definitions are recursive), and my graph theory courses help on occasion. I was once even able to help solve a problem that involved calculating the area of a general polygon specified by coordinates, which nobody on the team at the time really knew how to approach.
> Five years later I'm a Senior Software Engineer
> hoping to upgrade to principle
> Sometimes I suddenly feel like a fraud
You're not alone. Without a broad and rigorous education, it's hard to imagine being anything other than an advanced journeyman after only five years.
I also own code-bases simply because no one else was willing to or interested in doing so. Many times I've been out of my depth, but I've surrounded myself with an incredible team. I've found that in conversations where I was totally out my depth, I was able to contribute simply by asking basic questions or acting as a rubber duck.
Maybe Principle Engineer is a little but of a stretch I'll admit. But I'll still shoot for it and if I don't get it this year, it'll happen next year or the year after that. That's how I made senior after all, and probably why I find myself in roles like interim manager presently.
While having a CS degree does not hurt it is probably on a bottom of things one needs to be a good programmer.
I'm 38 and just started my first developer job 3 months ago after practicing law for 13 years and hating it. I started learning JavaScript/HTML/CSS about a year ago.
It's the best thing I've ever done for myself and my only regret is not doing it sooner.
You can do it!
Indeed, you're in the best position to solve attorney problems with programming.
But another approach to consider is augmenting or skipping the candidate part and build it yourself. Identity a problem you had, solve it and sell the solution/tool to other attorneys. Even if the selling part doesn't do well enough, you'll learn a lot and have a valuable resume booster.
During the time they're making that much money they're basically trapped working insane hours at one firm. Most lawyers don't even make six figures. Also, they can get disbarred if they make a mistake.
Software engineering allows for higher earnings for your entire career (though the ceiling might be lower on earnings), is less stressful and doesn't demand as many hours (in general) doesn't have a regulatory body that can take away your right to work if you get in trouble.
But I agree with your basic premise. Sure, making partner at a white shoe New York law firm is not a bad gig if you're into it and have been OK with the insane hours to get there. I did some work for one of those firms once and got pretty well paid for it (expert witness work).
But, you could also say that being an English professor can be a pretty good gig--if you're tenured at an Ivy League college. Which doesn't mean it's actually a great career choice given you're more likely to be teaching as an adjunct at a couple different community colleges or in a public high school with your expensive PhD.
[1] "Disbarment is quite rare: in 2011, only 1,046 lawyers were disbarred." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disbarment [2] https://www.rocketlawyer.com/blog/getting-disbarred-is-harde...
That kind of risk just doesn't really exist in software engineering beyond regular criminal background checks.
Then there's the work itself. I was in litigation, handling lawsuits between enormous corporations. The first few years of my career were spent in doc review 'dungeons', going through millions of pages of documents to find 'relevant' and 'hot' docs. Then as I became more senior, I was bombarded with one discovery motion after that were often filled with toxic attacks against the other side ("those bastards hid these documents! blah blah blah"). It didn't change much once I began doing 'substantial' work: litigation, by its nature, is intellectual combat. Being immersed in that kind of knife-fighting 24/7, week after week, wore me down.
Now I'm a software engineer and I love it. Work is interesting, hours are humane, and I genuinely enjoy collaborating with my colleagues to build new things.
Sure, I don't make as much as I did in law. But the evenings and weekends I can spend with my family, my mind at rest, are priceless. Plus, software engineers make plenty of money.
If you're early on in your career, I'd recommend the free only Computer Science degree (DIY route -> https://github.com/ossu/computer-science) and eventually getting a Master's if you want to go into management (or alternatively just load up on certs)
As a software developer I bring home more than some attorneys I have met. I am not working a FAANG making buckets of cash either.
Either you're an entrepreneur, and your hourly wage has to pay for all kinds of costs, including time not spent working, getting clients, equipment, training blablabla. Or you're an employee and your take-home pay can be completely detached from the pricing to your clients.
When I started my career in a legal/financial firm as a junior my hourly rate was $200 and my hourly pay was about $15, for example.
In those days I also worked a lot of overtime and chargeability requirements will drive you mad. Also in many firms you quickly specialise leading to sometimes boring work. On the one hand every legal matter is different and has its own quirks, challenges and interesting unique aspects. On the other hand, when you specialise in a certain field, you also constantly work on similar cases with similar references and jurisprudence, and you indeed often end up filling in templates for standard letters, contracts, motions etc, because the bulk of the substance will be the same over and over. Point being, the $15 an hour also came with mind-numbing work with unhealthy workhours and poor work/life balance.
That's just one of many stories, of course and all jobs have their issues. Some lawyers have a great job/life. But there's also plenty of people who may enjoy programming much more.
- the lawyer doesn't receive the full 250, half of it(?) goes to business/partnership
- afaik many lawyers under-bill their hours, i'm not sure why (beyond "competition") but it's a common practice
- the job itself may not be enjoyable at some point and you may desire more creative pursuits
- Many Lawyers under bill for fear of losing/surrendering their license [1] or squeeze in their Model Rule 6.1 hours [2]
- I'm seeing more lawyers amass some wealth, get burnt out, and then jump over to more creative or altruistic endeavours with less stress; can't blame them.
[1] https://www.thelawforlawyerstoday.com/2019/12/4739/
[2] https://www.americanbar.org/groups/legal_education/resources...
And keep in mind there are a lot of people who enter fields like law because it's the "default" thing to do if you're a good student who doesn't know what they want out of life yet.
Lots of lawyers out there who are at best bored, and at worst filled with revulsion about their day job. That's not a dig on law, but societal expectations.
good luck, friend
The linked article is about learning for pleasure, but there are also challenges associated with trying to enter the field as a second career. The technical complexity, of course, and the scale of what needs to be learned, can sometimes be overwhelming. It helps to bring as much humility to the process as you can muster. But peoples' perceptions can also be a challenge - no one quite knows what to make of you!
I like to think it's an opportunity. If you're able to combine domain expertise from your first career with a solid grasp of CS fundamentals and a good day-to-day working knowledge of your toolchain, that can make you a pretty rare interdisciplinary candidate. Perhaps that then informs how you market yourself and to whom.
Best of luck to anyone coming at this as a second career!