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Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by Barrin92 on Friday July 17, 2020 @02:23PM (#23873743)
This whole fake positivity thing is very US centric I feel. I remember that Walmart tried to expand here to Germany and failed, and one of the reasons I heard was that the culture of constantly smiling cashiers actually freaked customers out, and employees were stressed by 'company chants' in the morning, which I didn't even knew existed.

Many of the things mentioned in the article I don't find at all surprising. When in challenging or sad situations it's only reasonable to be grumpy, or pessimistic or what have you. Negative emotions or feelings are part of our natural range and appropriate depending on the cirumstances. Forced positivy to me always has something ghoulish, Truman-show like.

One particular thing that I've noticed about very optimistic people is that they (not always) but sometimes tend to have an overly inflated sense of agency even in situations where they are objectively not in control. When something goes wrong in these cases people like that tend to blame themselves more than appropriate. I think this can be the source of a lot of frustration.

Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by koheripbal on Friday July 17, 2020 @02:42PM (#23873939)
I understand how forced positivity might seem fake, but studies have shown that forcing a smile or forcing a group activity, can actually improve people's moods (both the giver and the recipient).

It is a cultural shift though that seems alien initially, but then you really get used to it, and it really does make people feel better when they encounter it literally at every store. Positivity also disarms people and makes them more likely to purchase goods.

Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by will_pseudonym on Friday July 17, 2020 @02:51PM (#23874028)
American here. I can't stand that forced positivity and chanting nonsense. I can't remember the standup comedian who this came from, but they had a bit where they were pointing out that it's bad enough that they have to work these awful jobs to provide for themselves, but they're forced to pretend they're enjoying themselves to boot. I've had to put on that faked positivity in a service position where my tips absolutely depended on it, and the only way I could really stand it was basically dissociating mentally and emotionally during the shift. You're a completely different person when you're in that position.
Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by kentrado on Friday July 17, 2020 @06:16PM (#23876612)
It was David Mitchell.
Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by will_pseudonym on Friday July 17, 2020 @06:50PM (#23876931)
Thank you! I was going a bit crazy trying to remember.

It was from an episode of QI. Here's the clip if anyone is interested: https://youtu.be/E9PSg0sQyfs

Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by jasonv on Friday July 17, 2020 @02:50PM (#23874017)
I'm from SF and spent a lot of time in Berlin.

My observation was that when you go into a shop in SF, you'll get greeted to a lesser degree, but more cheerfully.

In Berlin, you were greeted almost every single time, but more perfunctorily.

In that regard, I preferred the Berlin approach, even though it required me to respond more often. But I could simple acknowledge the greeting and keep going. It was more intrusive, but less demanding.

Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by FlyingSnake on Friday July 17, 2020 @02:59PM (#23874133)
Berlin might be a wrong example for Germany, and a lot of expats complain about the cold shoulders they get in Berliner supermarkts. Berlin is famous for it's 'Berliner Schnauze' (Snout), and it has a long history of it's own that doesn't quite match rest of Germany.
Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by theptip on Friday July 17, 2020 @04:35PM (#23875204)
> studies have shown

This (and the studies in the OP) should be taken with a grain of salt; there is a replication crisis in science, and psychology is one of the worst-affected fields.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis#In_psycholo...

In some attempts at replication less than 50% of studies were reproducible, indicating that they were either p-hacked or simply badly designed. Priming results seem to be particularly flimsy.

Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by greyswan on Friday July 17, 2020 @02:54PM (#23874077)
I've spent a lot of time in big US cities and more rural parts of the country.

I had culture shock going to stores in the rural areas, because the friendly customer service attitude appeared to be much less fake. People didn't feel as rushed. They took a little extra time to have genuine communication. It drove me crazy, because I was accustomed to the efficiency of city retail, but I've come to appreciate it.

Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by TheGrassyKnoll on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:31PM (#23874493)
I had occasion to work the phone at my father's small business. He had numerous customers in rural areas. I think you're right; these people like to talk. They apparently have more time and don't mind a friendly chat for extended periods.
Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by catalogia on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:05PM (#23874192)
I think you've buried the lead here. Walmart isn't altruistic; all they care about is increasing sales. Sincere pleasantness is nice to encounter, but such sincerity doesn't come from company policy.
Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by mrec on Friday July 17, 2020 @02:47PM (#23873990)
I hadn't heard that Walmart story before, but it fits with my experience. I'm a Brit, and Brits are nowhere near the US's level of fake positivity, but the German retail culture was still a surprise to me. It's not that Germans are rude, just not in the habit of pretending.

One of my favourite anecdotes from living over there was from a friend who'd become a regular customer of a particular takeout place. On one occasion he phoned up to place an order only to be greeted with "Oh, it's you again. Why don't you learn to cook?"

Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by Markoff on Saturday July 18, 2020 @02:02AM (#23879388)
so they were being actually very nice caring for his wellbeing instead of money
Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by mrec on Saturday July 18, 2020 @11:47AM (#23882151)
One bit I left out: after taking his order they ended with "...and would you like a small cookbook with that?"
Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by d1zzy on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:08PM (#23874216)
As someone who has emigrated from Eastern Europe (search for "Eastern Europe smile") to the US I can most definitely say that having strangers around smile/try to be nice (even just on appearance) is most definitely helpful as a stranger in a strange land. I would argue that in most social interactions with people we don't know there's going to be some kind of imbalance in knowledge/power and it's much more helpful when everyone tries to be nice in such a situation.

To take a very simple example: you are trying to go to a new place in a city. Maybe you just moved in the city or maybe you've been living here a while but you just never been to that place. So you try to find out how to get there using public transit. Naturally you'd need to ask strangers or the lady selling tickets. You do that in Eastern Europe (at least in my experience growing up there) and people will be at best annoyed, at worst they make comments about why you even ask, you are expected to know everything and generally they just act to make themselves feel superior and make you feel dumb. And while all of this is happening they look upset and mad which is not helping at all in an already stressful situation. In the US I had the opposite experience, worst case they cannot answer but they are making an effort to be nice to me and not just make fun of me.

I'm also pretty confident this isn't just "one" example, I grew up in an Eastern European country so plenty of experiences there and I've been in the US for 10+ years and it's been consistently a better experience day to day with strangers.

Now it might seem like that is just one silly interaction, shouldn't affect one much. But multiply this by thousands as you spend years in such a place and the difference becomes huge, I would argue it even forms your psychology.

So yes, US-type niceness is freaky and weird for those of us not used to it and it's most definitely "fake" in most cases, if you define "fake" as anything that is just skin deep, but that "skin deep" fake smile/niceness is ALL you need in day to day interactions with strangers, I'm not trying to make friends with everyone I meet and develop deep meaningful relationships, I'm just trying to take the right bus to my destination and you'll never see me again. So yes, please be nice and kind and smile.

On the other hand, I have found it hard to develop meaningful relationships in the US. It could be because the superficial niceness means it's hard to find someone that you can genuinely click with and/or many other reasons (immigrant, different culture, older age, etc).

Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by m0zg on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:44PM (#23874642)
I'm of the same opinion. IMO this needs to be a worldwide thing. Even if the smile is fake, it's a heck of a lot better than a scowl you'd get in Moscow or St Petersburg. And generally, even with a "fake" smile people are more likely to mean well, IMO.
Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by p1esk on Saturday July 18, 2020 @09:09PM (#23886169)
No idea why you’re getting downvoted.
Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by m0zg on Saturday July 18, 2020 @09:29PM (#23886269)
My other posts piss all over the approved liberal narrative, so people go in and bulk downvote.
Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by refurb on Friday July 17, 2020 @02:52PM (#23874048)
I remember talking to French colleague who called this out as well.

If someone invites you over for dinner in the US you’ll often hear “that meal was amazing!” even if it wasn’t. That’s just polite behavior.

My colleague was saying they don’t really do that in France. You’d never say “that meal was awful”, you’d just say nothing more than “thanks for the meal”.

I thought it was a great example.

Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by brlewis on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:37PM (#23874562)
> If someone invites you over for dinner in the US you’ll often hear “that meal was amazing!” even if it wasn’t. That’s just polite behavior

You aren't saying it's impolite so say anything less, right? I've lived in the US all my life and that's not my expectation...it could be that cultural expectations are not uniform.

Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by BrandoElFollito on Friday July 17, 2020 @04:17PM (#23875013)
I am French and we will say that the meal was good even if it was not ("thanks, it was excellent" )
Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by refurb on Friday July 17, 2020 @05:19PM (#23875703)
What if the meal was actually bad? Would you still say it? Some (not all) Americans would.

Obviously it’s a generalization, but an observation I found interesting.

Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by BrandoElFollito on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @02:35AM (#23904780)
Yes I would,especially if I was invited and saw that someone made an effort but that are just not that talented.

So in a restaurant I wrote not say anything (and words not come back), if the meal was truly bad I woke say it was not good and probably leave some comments somewhere (I did it only once because it was really bad).

Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by Markoff on Saturday July 18, 2020 @02:05AM (#23879405)
I'm from grumpy part of Europe, I would say with specific disappointed expression "it was OK" meaning it was definitely not OK
Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by lowdose on Saturday July 18, 2020 @12:40PM (#23882604)
I had a similar opinion as you until I actually travelled to the United States. I went to San Francisco to visit a girlfriend. As soon as I was landed I felt like this version of the experiment is in a whole other gear than Europe. Everybody you meet gives you their elevator pitch and a business card. They make sure you know you can actually call this person next week and he will be there. On the way in the BART from her college to SF we lost all our money while traveling to the city. We asked a business man the way to Alcatraz, he took us to lunch and gave us $100. He told us we should do the same when we have the chance back home because that would make the world better.

This kind of paying it forward never happens outside of the USA. That positive vibe is sincerely ment and it's sad to realize we Europeans take positive signals like a smile as cynical as we do. A smile lights up your brain with an injection of happiness.

Have you seen that sign on your Amazon package? It's not a mistake it looks like that.

Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by kstenerud on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:11PM (#23874255)
It's most definitely US and Canada centric. I've lived and worked in many places around the world, and in no other place would you get the "friend" treatment when you go to a store or restaurant. It just creeps people out because it's obviously fake, and I've always wondered why it doesn't creep out North Americans. I grew up in Canada, and it's always creeped me out when salesmen or waiters come up to me and start talking to me like they're a close friend or something. But everyone else seemed fine with it.

It's particularly infuriating when the waiter comes up and does the "and how is everything today? Good? Steak nicely done?" routine while I'm trying to enjoy my meal or talk with someone.

Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by PaulDavisThe1st on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:16PM (#23874315)
I emigrated to the USA when I was 24 and have lived here for nearly 32 years. My step-father used to hate the "fake" "have a nice day" stuff in the US, but on his second visit, he realized that he was starting to like it. He knew it was "fake", but he knew that the person saying it knew too, and he came to understand that it was just a way to provide a more pleasant atmosphere. By giving into it just a little bit, a positive feedback loop starts to run, and everybody wins.

ps. my kids think that i'm grumpy, bad tempered and pessimistic :) they're right about one of them.

Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by klyrs on Friday July 17, 2020 @09:10PM (#23878009)
> It's particularly infuriating when the waiter comes up and does the "and how is everything today? Good? Steak nicely done?" routine while I'm trying to enjoy my meal or talk with someone.

As a surly grouch, I'd say that it's worth the annoyance for the cases when they get your order wrong. It's the compliments for finishing my food that I can't stand

Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by balfirevic on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:20PM (#23874371)
Waiter checking up on you to see if you're satisfied with the food a minute or two after it's been served is not exclusive to US or Canada.
Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by kstenerud on Saturday July 18, 2020 @12:02AM (#23878791)
They just do it unobtrusively in other places.
Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by cafard on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:41PM (#23874603)
Ha!

A couple of summers in the early 1970s, I worked as a stockboy at Woolco stores that were opening. I didn't mind the customers once they did open, but I could have done without the jingle that went out over the loudspeakers: "There's bargains excitingly wonderful/All the things you've been looking for/???/At your Woolco department store!"

But at least we didn't have to sing along.

Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by em-bee on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:03PM (#23874170)
i lived in germany before coming to the US, and i must say that one of the biggest differences that i noticed was what a pleasant experience shopping was in the US.

people were always polite, friendly and helpful.

Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by black_puppydog on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:08PM (#23874213)
company chants?

and here I was thinking that the intro to "Sausage Party" (the movie) was just playing on disney clichés 0_o

Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by cafard on Saturday July 18, 2020 @07:34AM (#23880682)
Re:It pays to be grumpy and bad-tempered (2016) by black_puppydog on Saturday July 18, 2020 @10:59AM (#23881813)
That is more than slightly sickening 0_o