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Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by stickfigure on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @12:25AM (#23624088)
This is an $8,000 bicycle.
Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by Cthulhu_ on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @04:15AM (#23625459)
That's the part I don't get; carrier bikes (bakfietsen) have been around since forever, used by tradesmen and the people alike. Motorized variants as well, I mean it can be botched together with an old lawnmower engine if need be.

It wasn't a problem that needed solving, but it was a solution that rich people rediscovered. I guess two-stroke engines were beneath them?

Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by arghwhat on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @06:00AM (#23626113)
Electric bikes are dirt cheap to make. They're practically free in China, with everyone riding electric scooters.

That this bike is expensive has nothing in the slightest to do with it being electric.

Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by user5994461 on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @04:47AM (#23625672)
>>> I guess two-stroke engines were beneath them?

Too much maintenance with mixing up oil and gas.

Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by jhoechtl on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @06:38AM (#23626344)
Yeah, at least it should be four-stroke with dedicated oil lubrication.

Why doens't an E-bike doesn't need annual inspection while something like

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A9loSoleX

does require annual inspection? Still looking for a real lightweight bike with an ICE. Speed wouldn't matter, 20MPH / 30km/h would sound reasonable.

Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by arghwhat on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @10:16AM (#23628106)
> Why doens't an E-bike doesn't need annual inspection while something like ... does require annual inspection?

Emission testing as a moped, which is inapplicable to e-bikes.

(Probably also some bureaucracy, but that's separate.)

> lightweight bike with an ICE

That's an oxymoron. You can, however, get lightweight and entirely stealthy e-bike.

That gives you much more for much less, saves you the terrible noise of a small ICE with improper exhaust dampening, saves you a lot of maintenance, and probably also saves you and those around you some lung cancer while we're at it.

Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by sunstone on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @09:20AM (#23627511)
You'll be looking for a long time for your lightweight ICE bike. Probably be faster just to build it yourself with a leaf blower motor.
Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by marvin on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @05:07AM (#23625788)
Also noisy and failure-prone.
Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by WanderPanda on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @05:16AM (#23625834)
Also very dirty exhaust
Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by dsomers on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @05:41AM (#23625989)
Severely damaging air quality in your community should be beneath everyone.
Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by CathedralBorrow on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @05:15AM (#23625826)
> It wasn't a problem that needed solving, but it was a solution that rich people rediscovered.

Alternative interpretation: It wasn't a problem that you needed solving, but others may have had a different experience.

Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by Retric on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @05:30AM (#23625914)
Try bringing a two stoke engine onto a subway. That’s not their only appeal, but e-bikes simply work better in many urban areas.

Cargo e-bikes are vary niche, but still have real advantages over two stroke engines.

Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by solarhoma on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @10:02AM (#23627964)
If you are dropping down into a subway why would the engine be running? Unless you mean the hazardous fuel on the bike not being allowed on the train.
Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by amalter on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:07AM (#23628678)
Bringing a gasoline vehicle into the MTA would get you ticketed real quick. Oil/gas smells, potential leaks, hot exhaust - lots of things you don't want on an underground shoulder to shoulder transit vehicle.
Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by mc32 on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @08:11AM (#23626947)
At that price people could afford multiple electric scooters by established brands like Kymco. Scooters[1] are easier to manoeuver than regular bike frames.

[1] By scooter I mean the Vespa variety not the children’s toy.

Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by ikeyany on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @01:45AM (#23624502)
You mean a discussion about the cost-effectiveness of ebikes isn't the time to brag about your fancy ride?
Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by sschueller on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @02:44AM (#23624825)
I guess you have never seen a Stromer[1]. The iPhone of e-bikes.

[1] https://www.stromerbike.com/

Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by brtkdotse on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @04:30AM (#23625539)
It doesn't even have a mid-motor but rather a cheap-o hub motor. It's like the iPhone 1 of e-bikes.
Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by Flockster on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @08:37AM (#23627156)
Why is a mid-motor preferable? Doesn't it introduce an other point of failure at the chain because of the additional torque, which is not present when having the motor at the rear? I always thought, that having the motor where the force is needed would be better, because there isn't any conversion necessary.

So I never considered buying a mid-motor ebike.

Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by pi-rat on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @09:42AM (#23627757)
Crank motors are generally much more responsive than hub motors if used for pedal assist (as is required by law many places).

Having it apply torque via the chain/belt also mean you can gear the motor output on your back wheel.

Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by baybal2 on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @07:21AM (#23626604)
Why people dislike hub motors.

They weight near nothing for power levels legal on bicycles.

Even on low end mopeds, motor weight is not that big of a problem.

It is at power levels of around 7.5kw, when it becomes a problem.

Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by winter_blue on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @08:40AM (#23627176)
Wow, that's expensive. At that price I could buy a used 2012 Chevrolet Volt, a car that can do both short trips (up to 35 miles) on electricity, and long trips (on premium gas).

Or, of course, I could buy a cheaper regular gas car. One main benefit of a car is resale value. I'm pretty much guaranteed that it'll sell for not a lot less than what I bought it for, especially if I buy it several years used.

Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by JshWright on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @08:58AM (#23627315)
The Volt requires premium gas? That seems unlikely... It's basically a generator for the car, so I wouldn't expect the compression to be terribly high.
Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by winter_blue on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @09:03AM (#23627359)
The Gen 1 Volt required premium gas (i.e. model years 2011 to 2015). The Gen 2 Volt (model years 2016 to 2019) runs on regular gas.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt#Drivetrain:

Prior to the 2016 model year, the Volt required premium gasoline of (R+M)/2 octane rating of 91 or higher because the higher octane permitted the 10.5:1 compression ratio engine to use more ignition timing advance to maximize fuel efficiency by 5 to 10% compared to regular gasoline. For users who drive mostly in electric mode, and to avoid maintenance problems caused by storing the same gasoline in the tank for months, the 2011 Volt has a sealed and pressurized fuel tank to avoid evaporation. As a result, the fuel filler must be depressurized before opening the tank. Also, the engine management system monitors the time since the engine last ran, and prompts the driver to run past the 40-mile (64 km) all-electric range before recharging to consume some gasoline. If the driver does not run on gasoline, the system automatically runs the maintenance mode, which starts the engine to consume some of the aging fuel and circulate fluids within the engine.

However, according to https://www.cars.com/articles/does-the-chevy-volt-require-pr...:

Premium gas will maximize the fuel economy when the engine is used, GM powertrain spokesman Tom Read said. In an emergency, regular gas can be used on the Volt, but fuel economy will be compromised, and the engine may become noisier. The Chevy Volt’s engine computer will detect the octane change and retard ignition timing. Still, Read highly recommends refilling the Volt’s tank with premium fuel as soon as possible to avoid damaging the engine.

Also, from https://www.reddit.com/r/volt/comments/5nghhu/do_i_really_ne...:

Premium gas has a much longer shelf life and even though the gas tank is pressure sealed, lower grades of gas can chemically degrade over time (ethanol can oxidize into acetic acid in certain conditions). Not sure how the gen 2 volts deal with that but maybe the pressure sealing works better than expected. Besides that you will get worse gas mileage as the timing is adjusted for a smaller compression ratio (higher compression = more efficient otto cycle) and carbon build up could occur on the exhaust manifold with reduced exhaust gas temps, but who knows. I don't think you'll see a real impact in engine life if you burn all the gas in the tank always and you run premium occasionally.

Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by JshWright on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @10:14AM (#23628098)
Interesting... Thanks for taking the time to educate me!
Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by andbberger on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @02:13AM (#23624667)
Still, a lot cheaper than a car. Seems like it's on the high end for ebikes tho
Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by arghwhat on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @06:04AM (#23626144)
My e-bike, which was a little on the pricey side, cost me ~1000 USD new. 8000 USD is absurd, and over 1000 USD more than I originally paid for my current car (a 2010 VW). Hell, whenever they're on sale, VW UPs are pretty close to that price brand new.

There's nothing in this bike that makes it reasonable to price it like a small car.

Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by CubsFan1060 on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @07:53AM (#23626808)
What's your current bike?
Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by ChuckNorris89 on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @03:58AM (#23625330)
I paid €6000 for a 3 year old used car that can also drive me on vacations across countries and I don't get wet in the rain.

I love biking but 8 grand is just taking the Mickey.

Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by cerebellum42 on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @04:11AM (#23625431)
If you're going to start comparing prices you have to take into account ongoing costs for maintenance, taxes, insurance and fuel. After 3-5 years of ownership those probably exceed the initial purchase cost of a car like that.
Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by close04 on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @06:30AM (#23626310)
Comparing cars and bikes like this is pretty worthless, they're not meant to replace each other but to supplement each other. You don't go on a family road trip by bike, and you don't need to go shopping for toothpaste by car. And you certainly shouldn't use the bike to carry furniture hanging out like that.

On the other hand an $8000 bike, while it may work just fine for OP, is absolutely insane for most people out there. You can get the same functionality out of a <$2000 bike. Regardless, the way OP is using it is neither safe, not legal. I hope it was done just for the photo op and some Twitter likes but I would hate to be around that bike when one of those chairs fall off, or a gust of wind catches the payload like a sail, or simply ride past it and be forced to move further into the traffic or pedestrian lanes to go around Oversized Load here...

Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by ChuckNorris89 on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @04:24AM (#23625504)
Of course. But a car is much more difficult to steal than an ebike and in the EU bike theft is so rampant that police doesn't even bother with them but take car theft a lot more seriously, not that anyone would bother stealing my 2014 Camry but if I would leave my ebike chained in the city overnight there's no guarantee I would still find it in the morning.
Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by mrep on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @08:04AM (#23626910)
Bike theft is rampant here in the US too. My brother got his bike stolen after leaving it chained up in a city park for 15 minutes, and another one stolen after leaving it overnight in a bike garage. One of my old coworkers who bikes a lot said he has had 3 bikes stolen. That has really put me off to getting a bike to use in any big city.
Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by the-dude on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @08:17AM (#23626995)
I am halfway through this life and never had a bike stolen ( NL ).
Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by anonytrary on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @03:31AM (#23625132)
Can't compare it to a car without also mentioning the bike's disproportionately (far) lower possible utility.
Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by TomK32 on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @04:08AM (#23625412)
And the bike's lower maintenance cost which most people should be able to do themselves.

Love your ride so much you want to display it in the living room? Can't do that with a car :-D

Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by ChuckNorris89 on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @04:20AM (#23625481)
>Love your ride so much you want to display it in the living room? Can't do that with a car :-D

You've clearly never seen houses of millionaires.

And anyway, I like my bike but since it's always full of dust from the streets or brake pads and even worse when it's raining why would I bring it in the living room, that's just crazy. My bike is tool to get me from A to B, not a hobby to spend my time tinkering with or cleaning every day.

Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by Hamuko on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @04:21AM (#23625487)
I mean you could if you really love your car.

https://www.theinteriordesign.it/en/article/the-window-on-th...

Re:Segway ends production of its original scooter by knolax on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @01:35AM (#23624450)
$8000 for an electric rickshaw.