Unless you're planning to build a literal castle in the sky out of convenient gasses, this is completely unworkable.

Even at that altitude the cloud layer is still very turbulent and very toxic, and no structure will be absolutely gas-tight. And if the temperature is 75 °C outside, it's going to take insane amounts of energy to keep the inside of your hab cool - especially if it's made of metal and not rock. (A thin skin obviously isn't going to work.)

You can't mine Venus, and you can't explore the surface. All you can do is drift over the cloud layer.

So there's no point - except maybe niche tourism, niche planetary science, and possibly niche super-weapons research.

And after all that, you still have the problem of moving mass to/from your colony. 30-odd miles gives you a bit of an energy boost, but getting out the gravity well still isn't cheap or easy.

There are perhaps ways to mine Venus surface materials; something like dredging. Dedicated development of high-temp computing may also make longer-term robotic operations possible. None of that's particularly convenient, of course, and I can't imagine why you'd want to do it. But one can say that about every other extra-terrestrial option, too.

You would need a 50km long dredge. That seems completely unworkable; that's much longer than the deepest of deep mining operations we have here on Earth, and we aren't nearly as constrained on Earth as you would be on Venus. How would you even get such a thing to Venus? The only realistic way to do so would be to construct it of local materials, but now we have a chicken-and-egg problem.

Plus, keep in mind that a lot of the materials you would use for such a dredge on Earth won't work on Venus, because the atmosphere will corrode them.

It is probably a typo, but Mars doesn't have enough atmosphere to corrode things more than on Earth.

If you need 50km long dredge, then it is a viable project in future, just like now it is with space elevator. Apparently that type of dredge will be needed to extract materials from gas planets(and 50km might not be enough), so that dredge will have to be developed anyway.

The most logical solution to make habitable world would be to bombard Venus with comets and small planets. They all have enough materials to stabilize Venus atmosphere and teraform it and also calculated bombarding can cause Venus to change axis and rotation.

This is very far-future stuff though. In contrast, we can colonize Mars and Titan with today's level of technology (Mars more easily more likely, because it's closer).

I don't know... you'd need to maintain an over pressure in the living quarters and tiny leaks won't be much of an issue. Lift can be provided by hydrogen blimps, until you get to a balmy 20 C (70 F).

That would help both bleeding off heat and helping with maintaining over-pressure in the living quarters.

Corrosion resistance will be a challenge but not impossible, there are many plastics which will withstand sulfuric acid.

"Come TheOtherHobbes, you belong here with us, among the clouds..."

- Lando Venrissian

"Strap in folks, we're going through some turbulence... For the rest of your lives."

Like a life-long Maxell commercial but with acid rain.

Gattaca was ok, but the fact they were going to Titan was at best incidental to the plot. Could have been Mars, or Pluto, or Alpha Centauri, and it wouldn't have changed a single visual and only a handful dialog.

> The colonization of Venus is also a fascinating idea that isn't talked about much in comparison to the Moon or Mars. Essentially, the surface is too hot for colonization...

Nah, you're just not thinking big enough:

https://www.orionsarm.com/fm_store/TerraformingVenusQuickly....

That's an interesting article. I wonder how practical would it be to harvest hydrogen (protons, really) from solar wind using magnetic lensing. Tha same tech could be useful for Mars.

Depending on the shape of the parasol, the same support structures could be used for the lenses, focusing a stream of hydrogen nuclei on a small area of the planet. This focused plasma stream could also compensate some of the forces on the parasol (it'd need to be closer to the Sun than the Sun/Venus L1 point and balanced by light pressure) allowing the parasol to be smaller.

The thing is, if we were to develop the tech needed to cool Venus, it would be orders of magnitude cheaper to just use it here on earth to offset CO2/CO emissions and reverse the greenhouse effect.

That does nothing in terms of increasing Earth's surface area. Either we cap the population or we expand to other habitats.

There are vast expanses of desert in Sahara that no one lives in. That land is much easier to settle than another planet, yet we don't do that.

Or we mature enough to stop expanding exponentially

Venus has the very big advantage of having allmost earths g. That is a big deal.

The very big disadvantage except the atmosphere is the lenght of a venus day: 116 earth days and 18 hours.

So a science fiction solution is asteroid bombardment to make venus spin faster ..

My big idea for Venus, assuming infinite power, would be to shoot a series of big asteroids past it and use the gravity/inertia drag to make it spin faster.

Then, when Venus is spinning fast enough, collide the asteroids together to give Venus a moon and tides.

While all that is going on, use some sort of huge electromagnet to spin Venus' internal heavy core to provide a strong magnetic field to deflect nasty stuff from the Sun and elsewhere.

Also build a shield to stop all sunlight reaching Venus, thus freezing the atmosphere onto the surface. That makes reprocessing the crust into something Earth-like much easier.

Comets could then be used to provide oceans.

Shouldn't take more than a few tens of thousands of years! Seems like something a few humans, downloaded into robots, could do.

Mars would remain a scientific research station like Antarctica, assuming that life is found there. I'd treat Europa and anywhere else with life the same way.

I assume, once you have allmost self replicating robots, who can do mining asteroids and building factories to build more of them and mine more and build more .. you would not need ten of thousands of years. Maybe even only some decades.

Maybe this is what Factorio has been preparing me for all this time! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factorio

Just make sure that you have not invented Alastair Reynolds' "greenflies".

I figured tens of thousands of years mostly for the crust reprocessing on Venus itself, for the asteroids to coalesce into a big hot blob, and for the moon blob to cool down.

SimEarth mod downloading

Day length seems less of a concern than the temperature and resources issues (since you can use artificial lighting), plus you can float around in the balloon to choose to be in a light, dark, dusk or dawn place, and even enjoy an eternal sunset. This almost sounds like it would fit Le Petit Prince

The floating cities are surely a way to circumvent the daylength issue. But the daylength is directly linked to the temperature - even if you could normalize the atmosphere, the day side would still get just too hot and the nightside too cold.

I personally would bombard with comets. Bring down the temperature and deposit water on the planet.

Are there so many ice comets avaiable?

Also, would the temperature really go down and not be negated by the kinetic impact?

Apart from that, more water probably helps, if we do not need that water more urgently on mars.

There are billions of comets available https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuiper_belt

Then there is also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oort_cloud

Don't worry - there is more than enough comets to bomb the Mars with all the future settlements. Muhaha

Good to know ... otherwise a possible future would involve hunting and waging war for the few ice comets ..

Isn't the common scifi solution to drop some engineered bacteria into the atmosphere to convert the CO2 and generate a think ozone layer?

Not since sci-fi authors figured out that, given human success rates at bioengineering, the likely result is an uninhabitable planet-wide nanotech/bacterial goo that eats anyone who lands.

The ice comet solution has the added benefit of wiping out all of those pesky Martians, given the kinetic energies involved. Just ask any Pak Protector. (-:

Let’s sort that out on Earth first. :p

Why yes, let's test out something that can kill billions on Earth before trying it on an uninhabited area.

I think he meant, before we try to mess with a planet far away, we have a CO2 problem here on earth already urging to be solved in general. Not necessarily, to experiment wildly in the process here on earth.

I would bet the solution for Earth is going to be wildly different than one used on Venus. Earth will require carbon removal that can safety be used with people present. The Venus solutions all sound very, very unfriendly to be present for.

It was a joke, relax.

Stap this nonsense. It is clear that there is overpopulation on this planet, where most of the population want to consume all available resources to them, but there must be easier ways to deal with that problem... CO2 is food for plants. If you take away CO2 out of atmosphere of Earth, it is end of life for oxygen breathing life - Earth is inhabited not only by intelligent morons. Rise of temperature on Earth is not caused by CO2(which is generated also by volcanoes), that is generated by humans, but by behavior of Sun. Winter around poles is caused by inclination of Earth - not because there is abundance of CO2... oh, I must have mixed something up, because when I started to read sci-fi, it was all about next Ice Age on Earth. And that we are doomed and that everyone will die. And we need to get to different planet. Despite that there are no habitable planets in reasonable distance. With no breathable air or water. And if there were, then we would be kicked out, if we tried to land. Because that is not how things works - if you have habitable planet, you should care about it.

There is no H on Venus surface, so it is impossible to change Venus with local resources. So, they have to be imported - and there is H in comets. So, the only way to teraform Venus is with bombarding it with thousands of comets and space junk, that contains ice. Maybe getting H out of gas planets might be another source, too.

> 1. The film Gattaca (1999), in addition to being an excellent, inspiring film all around, centers on an aspiring astronaut's upcoming trip to Titan. Highly recommended.

Gattaca is one of my favorite films. I agree that it is excellent, but I'm not sure it is inspiring. Gattaca is about how the system, society, circumstances and expectations beyond your control are an albatross around everyone's neck and ultimately harm and defeat the individual. In Gattaca, both Vincent and Jerome are tragic figures as they are both victims of expectations. Jerome is burdened by high expectations and Vincent by low expectations and those societal expectations are a hurdle to the lives they want to lead. Ultimately those societal expectations crushes Jerome and turns him into a cynical cripple. Vincent's societal expectations places a chip on his shoulder which costs him his family and his identity. And in the end, neither Jerome nor Vincent achieve their dreams as Jerome burns himself to death and Vincent dies on his way to Titan due to his "degenerate" heart. In a way, Gattaca is about two people on their own suicide mission as they rage against society/expectations. If you watch the movie from the beginning, you'll realize that both fully know that they are going to die/kill themselves doing what they are doing. It's a tragedy.

> Vincent dies on his way to Titan due to his "degenerate" heart.

Vincent definitely doesn't die on his way to Titan. I'm not sure where you got that from. Jerome also self-immolates because he realizes that his purpose is now completed, not because he is cynical and depressed. His silver Olympic medal also turns gold in the fire, which is supposed to suggest that he has achieved his true purpose in life.

In any case, I see the film as inspiring because the two characters still find purpose and meaning in their nightmarish world: Vincent through achieving his goal of becoming an astronaut and Jerome through providing his identity and biological material for a greater purpose.

"I got the better end of the deal. I only lent you my body - you lent me your dream."

> Vincent definitely doesn't die on his way to Titan. I'm not sure where you got that from.

It's alluded to a few times in the movie. Vincent never saves anything for the swim back. Vincent specifically mentions that he is living on borrowed time as he has surpassed the "number of beats expected of his heart". And there is the treadmill scene where he was barely able to hang on. Remember that the training was to select people who can physically survive the journey and thrive on titan. Not to mention Vincent doesn't bring any of Jerome's urine,blood,etc with him to Titan. Do you really believe they don't check your identification on titan? Also, the lock of hair that Jerome gave to Vincent is an acknowledgment of Vincent that Jerome isn't going to make it and of course that Vincent isn't going to make it either. Finally, the last words of Vincent: "For someone who was never meant for this world, I must confess, I'm suddenly having a hard time leaving it. Of course, they say every atom in our bodies was once a part of a star. Maybe I'm not leaving; maybe I'm going home."

> Jerome also self-immolates because he realizes that his purpose is now completed, not because he is cynical and depressed.

That's a very upbeat view. But people don't normally celebrate fulfilling their purpose by burning themselves to death. Some believe that Vincent's death symbolizes going to heaven since he overachieved and Jerome's death is hell ( burning ) because he underachieved.

> Vincent through achieving his goal of becoming an astronaut and Jerome through providing his identity and biological material for a greater purpose.

But there's the rub, Vincent didn't become an astronaut, "Jerome" did. Even when Vincent succeeded, he didn't.

> "I got the better end of the deal. I only lent you my body - you lent me your dream."

Yes. And neither achieved their dream and both died at the end. And Jerome also left enough blood,urine,etc for two lifetimes... Think about what that really means.

I used to view Gattaca as you did. It was inspirational like Rudy. But then I watched it more and started noticing more aspects of the movie and it is far deeper and far more tragic than a generic inspirational movie. It's a tragedy.

I interpreted all of the things you listed as indications that statistics and scientific analysis have limitations and can't predict success or failure, not as indications that he would fail and die in the end. This is perhaps the main theme of the film: "There is no gene for the human spirit."

You seem to have a thesis that the film is a tragedy and are working backwards from there. This goes against essentially everything in the film: its uplifting soundtrack, its message of overcoming the obstacles that society places in our way, and its argument that sometimes our true purpose is not to excel individually, but as a help and teammate to others.

> But there's the rub, Vincent didn't become an astronaut, "Jerome" did. Even when Vincent succeeded, he didn't.

Jerome is just his name and saying he didn't succeed because his achievements weren't listed under his own name seems a bit shallow, as if the only definition of success is fame. And again, a major theme of the story is that the two men are more capable of achieving great things together than apart. Remember that neither Vincent nor Eugene (Jerome) were in a good place prior to meeting each other. Jerome, the astronaut, is the successful identity created from the merging of both men, not simply one man using another's name.

> I interpreted all of the things you listed as indications that statistics and scientific analysis have limitations and can't predict success or failure, not as indications that he would fail and die in the end.

I did so for the "heart beats". But every other point has nothing to do with statistics or scientific analysis. I really can't say definitively that he died on his way to titan, but the evidence is fairly overwhelming. It wouldn't have been hinted at so much in the movie and the movie would not have ended with that quote otherwise.

> And again, a major theme of the story is that the two men are more capable of achieving great things together than apart.

That's a bit of a reach but you are entitled to the view.

> You seem to have a thesis that the film is a tragedy and are working backwards from there.

No. I watched Gattaca as a kid and loved it and saw it as an inspirational movie. Everything you believed, I believed. Then I got older and watched the movie a few more times. My thesis changed from inspirational to tragedy. As I said, my view of the movie changed. And I love the movie more now because it is richer, deeper and more consequential than a good simplistic feel good inspirational movie.

> And remember that neither Vincent nor Eugene (Jerome) were in a good place prior to meeting each other.

They weren't in a good place at the end either.

Anyways, you are entitled to your view. I used to view it like you and I suspect it's most people's first impressions when they first watch the movie. But after repeated viewing, it's hard to watch someone burning himself to death and a man's looking into space and "going home" as inspirational. There are inspirational aspects to the film, but I don't think that's what the movie is really about. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

> But every other point has nothing to do with statistics or scientific analysis. I really can't say definitively that he died on his way to titan, but the evidence is fairly overwhelming. It wouldn't have been hinted at so much in the movie and the movie would not have ended with that quote otherwise.

Do you have anything else that points to this? I've watched Gattaca 5-6 times I reckon, and never picked up on a hint that Vincent dies.

For the heart beats, I've always interpreted it as the world won't give him a chance because _statistically_ he has a low likelihood of success compared to the "guaranteed" success of genetic engineering. To me Vincent and Eugene are a rejection of this – showing that humans aren't just statistics, and that the guarantees are no such thing.

As for the "never saving anything for the way back" theme, I've always interpreted that as a part of this too. The idea that statistics aren't everything, going for the "guaranteed" outcome might limit your upside, etc.

I'm pretty sure that "going home" isn't a reference to death. In the context of the few lines it's in, he's talking about how maybe he's not leaving because the atoms in our bodies come from stars.

Finally, for me, there are too many references in Vincent's relationship with Irene that show an intent to return and an expectation that he will. Being gone for a year and that being "just one trip around the sun", lead the audience to see his trip as bittersweet because he's achieved his goal but will have to leave Irene temporarily, but ultimately a positive ending for him as he embarks on a new stage in his life. The gift of all the samples from Eugene, enough to last a lifetime, backs up this idea.

> Do you have anything else that points to this? I've watched Gattaca 5-6 times I reckon, and never picked up on a hint that Vincent dies.

Other than what I wrote, I can't think of anything else.

> For the heart beats, I've always interpreted it as the world won't give him a chance because _statistically_ he has a low likelihood of success compared to the "guaranteed" success of genetic engineering.

Same. I used to believe it. Now I don't. Sure. It's statistics. But there are actual physical limits and performance. Even though Vincent surpassed the time expectations of his heart ( which was a ball park figure with a margin of error ), he can't surpass the physical limits. He can't run without his heart nearly exploding. That's why he has to cheat. He needs record Jerome's heartbeat. Those tests are to ensure that the astronauts can survive months/years of space travel to Titan and to thrive in Titan. Vincent, at least his heart, can't perform.

Gattaca is a society with unfair genetic discrimination and also fair performance tests. Vincent could be praised for overcoming the unfair discrimination, but he should also be criticized for cheating fair performance tests.

If a legally blind person wanted to drive and cheated his way to a driver's license. Would you cheer him as he sits down on the driver's seat? Of course not.

> As for the "never saving anything for the way back" theme, I've always interpreted that as a part of this too. The idea that statistics aren't everything, going for the "guaranteed" outcome might limit your upside, etc.

Same. I used to believe it. Now I don't. Now I interpret it as someone who has a major inferiority complex and a huge chip on his shoulder that's willing to die rather than lose. Not only is he willing to commit suicide than lose, he's willing to kill his own brother in the process. If you think about what the swim contest was about, it's about Vincent's willingness to kill himself and his own brother. That's why in the second race, when Vincent tells his brother, his brother looks at him in absolute horror and turns back.

Vincent is all too human. The unfairness of society and his lot in life has made him willing to cheat, die and kill to get what he wants and screw over society.

> I'm pretty sure that "going home" isn't a reference to death. In the context of the few lines it's in, he's talking about how maybe he's not leaving because the atoms in our bodies come from stars.

"Leaving this world". "Going home". Returning to the atoms from whence we come from. Like ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

> Finally, for me, there are too many references in Vincent's relationship with Irene that show an intent to return and an expectation that he will.

He left his parents/brothers for good and he loved them. He also left Jerome to his death. Not sure Irene is that much more special. Vincent has shown that people means less to him than his goal. Besides, didn't the flight window between earth and titan open every 77 years or so? Besides vincent doesn't save anything for the trip back.

> The gift of all the samples from Eugene, enough to last a lifetime, backs up this idea.

Last "two" ( jerome's and vincent's ) lifetimes. Do you really think Jerome was able to produce that much blood, urine and skin/hair samples for two lifetimes? The last part of the film, both jerome and vincent were trying their best to avoid the elephant in the room ( their impending deaths ). That dinner scene, vincent asks jerome what he'll do after he leaves for titan. There is an awkward silence followed by silly response from jerome. And then Jerome toasts on his life on titan and asks what titan is like. But Jerome knows vincent is never going to reach titan alive and Vincent knows Jerome isn't going to last long after he leaves.

Besides, if Vincent intended to reach Titan and come back, he'd bring a few samples with him. Samples for id check on titan and of course id check when he arrives back on earth. If they check ids on the way to titan, don't you think there will be id checks on the way back or at least at the destination when he gets off the spaceship? But then again, he doesn't save anything for the trip back. His actions and his last statement makes me believe that he is not too long for this world.

Because the flight windows are so far apart, I interpreted it to mean that Vincent, once there, was set. They couldn't really send him back even if they wanted to.

And I read Jeromes suicide as the last act to "cover up" for Vincent (and Jeromes name). What would people say when someone found Jemore, alive or his corpse, in the home on Earth?

The last step was to disappear completely. If I recall correctly we were shown that the incinerator would burn until nothing was left there.

> Because the flight windows are so far apart, I interpreted it to mean that Vincent, once there, was set. They couldn't really send him back even if they wanted to.

Why would they need to send him back? Just imprison him in Titan. Also, society is based on genetics - where you work, where you live, who you date, etc. How did Vincent expect to live on Titan without Jerome's samples? I think the answer is he never intended to live on Titan because he knew he'd die on the way to Titan. We know that his heart can't handle the journey ( treadmill scene ).

> What would people say when someone found Jemore, alive or his corpse, in the home on Earth?

The same thing the cop said after questioning the wheelchair bound Jerome. Apologize after Jerome berated him and demanded his badge number. Besides, given your point about the flight window, what would it matter? Why would Jerome need to cover for him when Vincent's set on Titan?

I think that Jerome always intended to kill himself from the very beginning ( we know he's suicidal because he's in a wheelchair because of a failed suicide attempt ). Not to "cover up" for whoever he was helping, but because "Jerome wasn't meant to be 2nd place". In the incinerator, "2nd place Jerome" and his silver medal are no more. I also don't think he help vincent for the money or for vincent's sake though they developed a friendship towards the end. We know he was bitter at society ( and himself ) and I think he wanted to screw society once before offing himself.

In the end, it's two people dying to escape their "identity". One trying to erase his "invalid" identity and the other trying to erase his "2nd place" identity. And both perishing in the process.

We do not know that his heart failed during the journey. (It might.) We know that, reasonably, management would want the margin of error on the right side for a high investment journey.

> We do not know that his heart failed during the journey. (It might.)

Sure. We also do not know his heart didn't fail, though you seem sure it didn't. However, the clues throughout the movie make it fairly obvious that he doesn't make it.

> We know that, reasonably, management would want the margin of error on the right side for a high investment journey.

Sure. And we also know that he has heart problems and is living on borrowed time. We also know that running on the treadmill nearly leaves him breathless and clutching at his chest in terrible coughing fits. There must be a reason why that scene was in the movie. Don't you think?

The ending certainly leaves it open to interpretation. That's what's great about the movie. It didn't spoonfeed the audience. But it did provide hints/clues/etc.

Put it this way, there are tons of clues that he dies. There are no clues that he lives. If he lived, the movie would have some mentioned what he planned to do once on titan. Or any clue that he intended to survive the trip. Like maybe, Vincent telling Jerome, "Hey, I need a few samples to live on Titan" or "Hey, I got a nice apartment on Titan" or "Man, my new job on Titan is great" or anything indicating a life on Titan. Ever notice he never mentions his life on Titan? The only thing he is concerned about is getting on that spaceship.

If you were watching a kamikaze movie and at the end, the pilot flies off with enough fuel to reach the aircraft carrier group but not enough to make it back. Would you argue that he makes it back alive since we never actually see him carry out the attack? Sure, anything is possible, but highly unlikely.

Is it possible Vincent made it to titan? Sure, if they want to do a sequel perhaps. Is it likely? I don't think so. But it's art. Your interpretation is just as valid is mine.

Since yesterday I have started to remember more about the movie (it was a long time since) and I am starting to lean towards your interpretation. There are many clues, as you say. On my watchings I always took it to be one of those movies where they don't feel the need to show "Book 2" because "Book 1" was the interesting part. This movie is great. I always thought it was good, but now I think it's Great Art. This movie scares me shitless now.

He doesn't save anything for the trip back. But he gets back. Every time.

Thank you both for this discussion, it was quite enjoyable to read!

You have to work pretty hard to take the perspective that Vincent dies.

Vincent nearly fails the treadmill scene because he is on the edge of panicking under the stress of being revealed to be prime suspect in a murder case that might put him in jail wrongly and will blow his life's dream of getting to Titan.

It doesn't matter if they check his ID at Titan, whatever that means. He commented he is outside the police's jurisdiction on the way to Titan, he will have achieved his goal regardless of his publicly known validity after docking at Titan.

The line about going home is to illustrate that he is in fact, going home. He was always meant to be among the stars and found regular everyday life difficult. Through his teen years he studied astrophysics, he was an outcast. His home was, is and finally arrived among the stars. Vincent achieved exactly what he set out to do and so did Jerome. Jerome was upset that he was not the best swimmer, as he was designed to be and deliberately chose to walk into traffic. Jerome unable (or had no desire) to escape his own self-resentment, burns in it. Both Anton and Jerome suffer for defining themselves by their biology and the accompanied social expectations.

Jerome passes Vincent his hair as the last expression of his time on Earth. Jerome will no longer grow any hair, a natural measure of time. He has ceased to exist in a physical sense. His mission is complete in giving enough of his valid biological matter for his life and Vincent's life across time.

It is questionable what Vincent's goal in space is to do from a relational perspective.. He saved Anton from drowning twice and as lifted into space on the back of his own effort and everybody that let him pass through the system illegally. His father let him past the final checkpoint, Jerome gave his body, Anton gave him a gap in police authority, Irene did not expose his invalidity and the mission director pushed for the launch timing slot in the face of authoritative danger. What does Vincent give back for all this. A change in spirit from biological determinism to willpower over statistical fact. Not much in comparison to his launch.

Musing aside, Vincent lives.

> Vincent nearly fails the treadmill scene because he is on the edge of panicking under the stress of being revealed to be prime suspect in a murder case that might put him in jail wrongly and will blow his life's dream of getting to Titan.

The impression that it was 'the stress of being found out' is a novel interpretation to me. I always thought it was about the fact that he has a 'garbage' heart and he's basically actually going at 200% while it appears on the outside as if he's only doing 60 bpm.

Right at the end of his run his real BPM comes out because the recording from Jerome (Jude Law) reached its end and that's when he stops the exercise.

I didn't see it either that Vincent dies, but thank you, your perspective of it is really opening & interesting!

Will re-watch differently the movie now! :)

since the film ends with him leaving we don't know if he dies or not, but outlook does not exactly look promising. Then again nothing of Vincent's life has ever looked promising.

We cannot be sure, sure, but absolutely everything in the movie indicates that Vincent survives. The whole story arc for him is that he overcomes everything, even rescuing his genetically superior brother from drowning on the way, and prevails.

Edit, to add: the name Vincent is derived from the Greek/Latin word for conquering/winning... so there’s that too.

- Vincent Freeman = Victorious Free Man

- Jerome Morrow = Sacred Name of Tomorrow/The Future

> Jerome is a masculine name of Greek origin, derived from the Greek given name Ἱερώνυμος, Hierōnymos, "sacred name"; from ἱερός, hierós, "sacred", and ὄνυμα, ónyma, an alternative form of ὄνομα, ónoma, "name".

The names chosen were actually pretty genius, especially considering that Jerome's name/identity is the one used "to build the future", and in the last conversation Vincent has (with the doctor), is referred to as Vincent, his real name.

Very interesting take! I haven't rewatched it, and now I have a reason. I thought the ending was open ended for the reasons discussed further on. Vincent gets to the rocket which was the goal. I also wondered about the cache of materials Jerome leaves behind, was it that he thought Vincent might stay?

... maybe for when he comes back from Titan. Given Titan is a more spartan outpost, and everyone there is presumably accounted for anyway, given you can't exactly stroll over to Titan without going on a rocketship first - maybe for when Vincent comes back from his Titan mission, for retirement or whatever.

I like the terraforming idea better, and we could get it started with todays technology, it would just be really expensive - simply build a bunch of solar shade cells and assemble them in L1 orbit between Venus and the Sun, and keep expanding the network until you cover Venus in night. Then let the planet cool for a couple hundred years - a lot of that thick sulphuric atmosphere might solidify and fall to the ground and get the atmosphere down to workable levels.

> . At this height, the temperature is a manageable 75 °C (348 K; 167 °F); or 27 °C (300 K; 81 °F) if we could get 5 km (3.1 mi) higher

I wonder -- what is the hottest air temperature humans could endure long term outdoors. Assuming you could adjust to the discomfort of warm air temps, how hot would it have to be before it's hazardous?

Our body's principle means of cooling is via sweat. When sweating stops being effective, it's basically impossible to cool down, and you're going to die of heat stroke if you don't go somewhere colder and/or less humid. Sweating breaks down at a wet-bulb temperature of ~100°F, and hitting even dry-bulb temperatures in the 150°F range is going to start to be lethal.

It depends on the humidity. The maximum wet bulb temperature that healthy humans can endure long term is about 35 °C.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature#Wet-bulb_...

> floating cities

We have decided on Mars, can we stop forking it. Have we learning nothing from Linux?

But if you have to, could you hurry up and make a floating city on earth to practice?

People would pay a tonne of money for that, and having floating cities (In reality small communal groups, so more a village) would be very very neat.

> make a floating city on earth to practice?

Earth's atmosphere is lighter than the Venusian one at that altitude. A balloon filled with breathable air would float naturally. You can't do that on Earth.

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_Nine_%28tensegrity_spher... you can.

It is possible. Just don't expect living space to be bigger than a hot air balloon basket for the size of a reasonable hot air balloon.

You can make pressure inside just a little bit decreased and make this thing fly 1 mile high, for practice. Call it “Denver” or something.

Float it on the ocean?

Simulating a land-based, completely sealed off mars- or moon-base in Antarctica is one thing. Simulating the conditions of a base floating in an atmosphere of CO2 is quite another.

Wouldn't it come down to basically just a boat / submarine?

That floats in a fluid at 75C. That’s a sub with a major AC challenge.

So, go higher instead, until the temperature is nice.

I'm imagining a way to use solar power to grow hydrogen filled mylar cells at scale in a lake or ocean. You could organically grow an enormous platform as a skyport, e.g., elevator up the cable a couple km, then take off from there. Hell, maybe you need these skyports to support the business end of a massdriver.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_driver

Images (and calculations) in the deck: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1r6CPFJ1AX1ZULacguTf6...

"We have decided on Mars, can we stop forking it. "

Who is "we"?

I for example, have decided, that we colonize the moon first and then go on from there. But since I sadly do not operate a big space agency/company, my decision is not so relevant (yet).

But apart from that, yeah sure, lets build floating cities and (at least partly) self sufficient habitats on earth first, before we try it do it so far away we need at least 6 months to get there.

> I for example, have decided, that we colonize the moon first and then go on from there.

Why do people work so hard to get out of a gravity well, only to sink down into another one? The moon isn't bad, but the asteroids are where all the action will be. All the materials a civilization could want, relatively easy to access and move around.